Pioneer Elite DV-58AV - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1057 Old 02-03-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by allsop4now View Post

"Kill", I think is far from it, really. Nor does any conversion automatically defeat the point (what point(s), btw?) of a high-resolution audio format.

Reviewers like Kal Rubinson seems quite satisfied with DSP processing of SACD over HDMI.

The point is it is no longer high definition when the DSD is converted to PCM and DSP is applied. The signal to noise ratio is affected and other conversion artifacts occur. If you want this use DSD output to a receiver and let it mess with it, just don't call it high def.
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post #92 of 1057 Old 02-03-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

The point is it is no longer high definition when the DSD is converted to PCM and DSP is applied. The signal to noise ratio is affected and other conversion artifacts occur. If you want this use DSD output to a receiver and let it mess with it, just don't call it high def.

Where is it defined that when DSD is converted to PCM and DSP is applied, it's no longer "high definition" audio?

This may be worthy of a read: http://www.lavryengineering.com/docu...ing_Theory.pdf
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post #93 of 1057 Old 02-03-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post

Have you had any luck with this player locally? None of the Elite dealers have it in my area and none plan to stock it. One told me too many models already in their inventory and they are having a hard time selling high-end std DVD players with Blu-Ray on the horizon.

My Dealer has it in stock.
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post #94 of 1057 Old 02-03-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MinxMeister View Post

Where is it defined that when DSD is converted to PCM and DSP is applied, it's no longer "high definition" audio?

This may be worthy of a read: http://www.lavryengineering.com/docu...ing_Theory.pdf

I am reading it (I read bits of this before a long time ago). But DSD doesn't work the same way as PCM. Further reading to follow...
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post #95 of 1057 Old 02-03-2008, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

...But DSD doesn't work the same way as PCM...

Yes I know.

Please don't assume most everyone here is as dumb as you seem to convey.
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post #96 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 04:53 PM
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Finally did a mini test of the Oppo 980 versus the Pioneer DV-58AV. Using my Pioneer 4270 Plasma(last years Pioneer). Both the Plasma and the player are run on isolation transformers which make the picture better. Using the HDMI cable that came with the Oppo (has ferrites on it). Used Men in Black as it is a good transfer. All settings on both machines were stock, except I increased the detail setting on the Pioneer. Even so, the Oppo kills it. Simply more high rez and clear. I have been using various stock 58s for casual movie watching over the last few weeks and even though it was really enjoyable I kept thinking that I am not have those wow experiences that I often have with the Oppo (when I say to myself...."this looks so good it looks like high def"). I kept feeling that the Pioneer just did not reslove as much info.....well todays A/B tells me my feelings were correct. You buy the Oppo for video and great sound. You buy the Pioneer because you want to mod it to make it sound way incredible out of its analog outs (I am a two channel high end audio guy, so sound is way more important when listening to CDs, SACDs, 24/96 DVDs, and DVD-As then it is when watching a movie). The sound of the stock Oppo is very clear (probably more so then the stock Pioneer) but the Pioneer has greater sound tweaking potential with its better DAC. All of this sound stuff is totally related to using the analog outs. If you have no intention of using the analog outs then the Oppo is clearly the way to go for picture and sound. I will keep my 980 for video use and use a modded 58 for audio use.
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post #97 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 05:45 PM
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Been kicking around the idea of getting the Oppo 980 or the Pioneer 58AV. I'm going to pair either one of them up with the Onkyo 885 and let it do the decoding. If I have to pay retail for the 58AV, then it's a no brainer, I'll take the Oppo.

If I can get a deal on the Pioneer, then I'm tempted to get it because I plan on keeping it a long time and build quality does make a difference.

One thing I don't like about the Oppo is that you have to set the resolution to 720p/1080i for the HDMI to send bitstream to the receiver/pre amp. The Onkyo 885 has a good video chip and I'd like to try it with 480i from the DVD player.

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post #98 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

Finally did a mini test of the Oppo 980 versus the Pioneer DV-58AV. Using my Pioneer 4270 Plasma(last years Pioneer). Both the Plasma and the player are run on isolation transformers which make the picture better. Using the HDMI cable that came with the Oppo (has ferrites on it). Used Men in Black as it is a good transfer. All settings on both machines were stock, except I increased the detail setting on the Pioneer. Even so, the Oppo kills it. Simply more high rez and clear. I have been using various stock 58s for casual movie watching over the last few weeks and even though it was really enjoyable I kept thinking that I am not have those wow experiences that I often have with the Oppo (when I say to myself...."this looks so good it looks like high def"). I kept feeling that the Pioneer just did not reslove as much info.....well todays A/B tells me my feelings were correct. You buy the Oppo for video and great sound. You buy the Pioneer because you want to mod it to make it sound way incredible out of its analog outs (I am a two channel high end audio guy, so sound is way more important when listening to CDs, SACDs, 24/96 DVDs, and DVD-As then it is when watching a movie). The sound of the stock Oppo is very clear (probably more so then the stock Pioneer) but the Pioneer has greater sound tweaking potential with its better DAC. All of this sound stuff is totally related to using the analog outs. If you have no intention of using the analog outs then the Oppo is clearly the way to go for picture and sound. I will keep my 980 for video use and use a modded 58 for audio use.

Thanks for your input. I was wondering since you have access to both players, if you were to deviate from the stock/factory settings would the Pioneer close the gap of the OPPO video performance such that you would get the best of both worlds?

Also, exactly which DAC solution is employed inside the DV-58AV

Thanks in advance
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post #99 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 05:52 PM
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Yes, theoretically, the plasma needs to be calibrated, even with something like Avia, *with* each player, and each combination compared.

I thought I saw somewhere that the 58AV was actually built on top of the same platform that Oppo uses? Previous Pios were all internally developed, but I had seen somewhere that the latest series (48AV too) was "outsourced". Anyone know? Not conjecture, but know?

For example, previous recent Elite Pios were all made in Malaysia. Where is the 58AV manufactured?

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post #100 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 06:12 PM
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I haven't seen the 58av, but when I checked out the 48av, it felt slightly more substantial than my Oppo 981. It was "Oppo-ish."

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post #101 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 07:35 PM
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The DV58 uses just the Mediatek chip only for video as the Oppo does (the older DV-79 here has a Gazillion chips on its main board....not on this one...hardly anything there. However, it is not programmed the same. The chip in the Oppo has an OP2 marking on it that indicates that Oppo has done its magic to the chip.

The audio DACs in the DV-58 are the PCM1796 current out DACs.

DV-58 made in Thailand.

Most people do not calibrate their TV. So, maybe, maybe if you did and fooled around with the DV-58s settings you could get it to look as good as the Oppo.....maybe. I wouldn't bet on it. No way, you would prefer the Pioneer in my setup.
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post #102 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 07:47 PM
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For those of you sending bitstream data to an outboard processor for DVD-Audio and/or SA-CD does the 58AV have the same issues of downsampled audio resolution or f-d up channels on multi-channel PCM, dropped LFE track on DSD streams, and other high resolution music disc issues seemingly plaguing the Oppo 980H?

I won't be using it to play regular DVDs at all.

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post #103 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

For those of you sending bitstream data to an outboard processor for DVD-Audio and/or SA-CD does the 58AV have the same issues of downsampled audio resolution or f-d up channels on multi-channel PCM, dropped LFE track on DSD streams, and other high resolution music disc issues seemingly plaguing the Oppo 980H?

I won't be using it to play regular DVDs at all.

Oppo released a firmware update a few months ago that fixed all of these problems. It's a great player for the $$$. The only thing that I don't like about it is that whenever you want to change the layer of an SACD, you have to have eject the disc and enter its Setup menu, which requires the use of a TV monitor. So it pretty much makes playing a SACD feel like you're playing a DVD-A.

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post #104 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allsop4now View Post

"Kill", I think is far from it, really. Nor does any conversion automatically defeat the point (what point(s), btw?) of a high-resolution audio format.

Reviewers like Kal Rubinson seems quite satisfied with DSP processing of SACD over HDMI.

As much as I respect Kal, I have to disagree with him on this. Every time I have converted DSD into PCM (using a PS3 or an Oppo 980 into a Denon 3808), most of the 'magic' that DSD captures from a excellent recording disappears. Oh sure, it still sounds "really good" and better than any regular CD, but it never sounds as amazingly good as the original DSD does.

It's just a shame that to cross that threshold from "excellent" to "amazing", such an alien encoding technology like DSD is required. But to be fair to PCM, I have heard some XRCD's that blow away most DVD-A's and even some SACD's. This has lead me to believe that the limitations that we are all hearing are not so much tied to PCM or DSD, but to how the data is handled along the mastering and replication stages that has the biggest impact on the final result (and XRCD's are only made in Japan using what is probably the finest mastering/replication facilty in the world).

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post #105 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

The sound of the stock Oppo is very clear (probably more so then the stock Pioneer) but the Pioneer has greater sound tweaking potential with its better DAC.

Very interesting. I think a few of us have held the position that such might be the case, while some others narrowly focused on the DACs. Thanks for your contribution. Too bad Pioneer hasn't done much to improve the video on one of their latest DVD players.
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post #106 of 1057 Old 02-06-2008, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dicey View Post

...This has lead me to believe that the limitations that we are all hearing are not so much tied to PCM or DSD, but to how the data is handled along the mastering and replication stages that has the biggest impact on the final result...

I've come to a very similar conclusion after 30+ years of playing the audio nirvana game.
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post #107 of 1057 Old 02-07-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

The DV58 uses just the Mediatek chip only for video as the Oppo does (the older DV-79 here has a Gazillion chips on its main board....not on this one...hardly anything there. However, it is not programmed the same. The chip in the Oppo has an OP2 marking on it that indicates that Oppo has done its magic to the chip.

The audio DACs in the DV-58 are the PCM1796 current out DACs.

DV-58 made in Thailand.

Most people do not calibrate their TV. So, maybe, maybe if you did and fooled around with the DV-58s settings you could get it to look as good as the Oppo.....maybe. I wouldn't bet on it. No way, you would prefer the Pioneer in my setup.

Ric,

Thanks for posting your results. Also very disappointed here to see that this "Elite" player is using the Mediatek chip. There's a number of around $100 players using this chip besides the Oppo 980. $400 for good analog audio output seems like a huge mark up.
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post #108 of 1057 Old 02-07-2008, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post

Ric,

Thanks for posting your results. Also very disappointed here to see that this "Elite" player is using the Mediatek chip. There's a number of around $100 players using this chip besides the Oppo 980. $400 for good analog audio output seems like a huge mark up.

This is my opinion, some it based on fact. I had a 59AVi and I freaking loved that player. Except for the layer change delay. So the 79AVi comes out, and it has worse video than the 59AVi. So I stayed with the 59AVi and waited. I finally decided on the Oppo 980H. Layer change: gone. I was happy. If you look at the Secrets reviews and put in some informed conjecture, the 980H is really close to the 970, but the Mediatek chip has been tweaked. But all of them, the 59AVi, 970, and 980H have very similar video. Not as good as some of the stuff out there now (Reon, ABT, etc), but I was personally quite happy with the 59AVi's video. The 59AVi debuted with a list price of $1600. (It was later dropped to $1k, and I think the 79AVi was around $1k too.) So now the 58AV comes out at $500, but it *should* have better audio than the 59AVi and video at least as good if not better. So for the price in terms of Pioneer products, I don't have a problem.

Now, compared to the Oppo, that gets more interesting. I like the 980H, but the build quality of the 59AVi was much higher. There are a few firmware issues with the Oppo that I never had with the Pio. Also, power on to playing a CD or DVD is about twice as slow with the Oppo than with the Pio. The analog audio output of the Pio should be better. But a lot of us don't need analog out from a player anymore, so in *that* case, sure, it'd be harder to justify the difference in cost between the two. But for people who use that analog output a lot, I don't see that cost difference as too high, and it's not as high as you think anyway. $500 list, and I bet if I looked, I could find it for $400, vs $179 for the 980H.

Comparing the 58AV vs a $100 Mediatek powered DVD player is rediculous I think, because there's a lot more at work here. There's deinterlacing and upscaling *implementation*, not just the chip. And ... do any of those $100 players also play SACD and DVD-A?

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #109 of 1057 Old 02-07-2008, 08:15 PM
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I thought I made it clear that I was comparing the $400 difference between the $100 Mediatek player and the analog performance of the 58AV. I don't consider it a ridiculous comparison as you do. At that price given what you can get out of an Oppo 980 for $170 there is no contest.

I'm off this bandwagon.
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post #110 of 1057 Old 02-08-2008, 05:56 PM
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But it isn't just the analog audio sound quality that's different between a $500 Pio and a $100 generic Mediatek player. You're paying for other things too, like SACD and DVD-A capability, build quality, QC, warranty differences, etc.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #111 of 1057 Old 02-09-2008, 12:08 PM
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I ended up not getting the 79avi so if the 58 isnt up to par ill just keep using my old 985 Rotel.
all im interested in is the video (and the cheap looking oppo isnt for me)
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post #112 of 1057 Old 02-09-2008, 01:34 PM
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I know someone who got the DV-58AV yesterday and we played around with it last night and here are my first impressions. Connected to a Panasonic TH50PX50U over HDMI I concluded the picture wasn't all that great. We tried 480i, 720p and 1080i resolutions setting each up with Avia. In fact, I decidedly preferred my old Panasonic RP91's picture. Maybe further tweaking of all the settings MIGHT improve on things, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Next we played some CDs, DVD-As and SACDs through the analog outs and the results weren't too inspiring either. One thing that stood out for me was the lowered deep bass levels compared to my RP91 and my SCD-CE775. Maybe once it "burns in" for a while it may improve, but the out of the box sound was very under whelming to my ears. It may be the case that modding it for improved sound quality may be it's only salvation.

Well, that's my quick and dirty amateur evaluation. YMMV and all that stuff.
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post #113 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

This is my opinion, some it based on fact. I had a 59AVi and I freaking loved that player. Except for the layer change delay. So the 79AVi comes out, and it has worse video than the 59AVi. So I stayed with the 59AVi and waited. I finally decided on the Oppo 980H. Layer change: gone. I was happy. If you look at the Secrets reviews and put in some informed conjecture, the 980H is really close to the 970, but the Mediatek chip has been tweaked. But all of them, the 59AVi, 970, and 980H have very similar video. Not as good as some of the stuff out there now (Reon, ABT, etc), but I was personally quite happy with the 59AVi's video. The 59AVi debuted with a list price of $1600. (It was later dropped to $1k, and I think the 79AVi was around $1k too.) So now the 58AV comes out at $500, but it *should* have better audio than the 59AVi and video at least as good if not better. So for the price in terms of Pioneer products, I don't have a problem.

Now, compared to the Oppo, that gets more interesting. I like the 980H, but the build quality of the 59AVi was much higher. There are a few firmware issues with the Oppo that I never had with the Pio. Also, power on to playing a CD or DVD is about twice as slow with the Oppo than with the Pio. The analog audio output of the Pio should be better. But a lot of us don't need analog out from a player anymore, so in *that* case, sure, it'd be harder to justify the difference in cost between the two. But for people who use that analog output a lot, I don't see that cost difference as too high, and it's not as high as you think anyway. $500 list, and I bet if I looked, I could find it for $400, vs $179 for the 980H.

Comparing the 58AV vs a $100 Mediatek powered DVD player is rediculous I think, because there's a lot more at work here. There's deinterlacing and upscaling *implementation*, not just the chip. And ... do any of those $100 players also play SACD and DVD-A?

Kevin...I think you and I went with the 59 AVi at about the same time. I remember all the debates whether the ELITE or the new (at the time) Denon 39XX was the better universal player.

Like you, the layer changes were a nuisance, but worth it for the pic and audio quality (particularly with i-link) of the 59 AVi. Well worth it. Pairing it with an ELITE 59 TXi AVR, I was in AV bliss. Adding my Rockets from AV123 and a really nice HSU sub, I was ahead of the curve (will keep my speaker set up), at least for a while.

Fast forward a few years and I get the upgrade bug again. I start to notice how plasmas are coming down in price. And, boy does 1080p look sweet. HD-DVD is dying quickly (actually, I wanted the format to win, but that's not to be). My son got a PS3 for Christmas. I've now got a vehicle for BD (and probably the best BD player on the market, to boot).

The plasma looks to be the display of choice for 1080p, so I took the plunge. Got a KURO 6010 coming this week.

OK, now HDMI is the connection of choice. Unfortunately, no such input on the 59TXi. Got some EMOTIVA gear. No HDMI there, either. If I'm going, may as well go all the way. Pioneer's new offerings in the AVR realm can't hold a candle to the 59 TXi. Leaving that camp.

THX Ultra 2 is the way to go, though. Onkyo 805 has it...and HDMI. OK, I'm on board.

What to do with all of those DVD-A and SACD disks?

That brings me to Oppo. Good video? Check! Good audio? Check! Upconversion to 1080p? Check! HDMI for video and audio? Check! What's this? $229? To get a good universal player we had to pay $1,000 (59 AVi price) just a few short years ago. Still, I've only read reviews about them.

I'll have a 981 in house this week. I'm anxious to see how the video/audio compares over digital connections (HDMI) vs my previous all Pioneer set up.

Taking the analog processing out of the equation (as much as you possibly can) should yield sterling results. We'll see.

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post #114 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 11:20 AM
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Kevin...I think you and I went with the 59 AVi at about the same time. I remember all the debates whether the ELITE or the new (at the time) Denon 39XX was the better universal player.

Like you, the layer changes were a nuisance, but worth it for the pic and audio quality (particularly with i-link) of the 59 AVi. Well worth it. Pairing it with an ELITE 59 TXi AVR, I was in AV bliss. Adding my Rockets from AV123 and a really nice HSU sub, I was ahead of the curve (will keep my speaker set up), at least for a while.

Fast forward a few years and I get the upgrade bug again. I start to notice how plasmas are coming down in price. And, boy does 1080p look sweet. HD-DVD is dying quickly (actually, I wanted the format to win, but that's not to be). My son got a PS3 for Christmas. I've now got a vehicle for BD (and probably the best BD player on the market, to boot).

The plasma looks to be the display of choice for 1080p, so I took the plunge. Got a KURO 6010 coming this week.

OK, now HDMI is the connection of choice. Unfortunately, no such input on the 59TXi. Got some EMOTIVA gear. No HDMI there, either. If I'm going, may as well go all the way. Pioneer's new offerings in the AVR realm can't hold a candle to the 59 TXi. Leaving that camp.

THX Ultra 2 is the way to go, though. Onkyo 805 has it...and HDMI. OK, I'm on board.

What to do with all of those DVD-A and SACD disks?

That brings me to Oppo. Good video? Check! Good audio? Check! Upconversion to 1080p? Check! HDMI for video and audio? Check! What's this? $229? To get a good universal player we had to pay $1,000 (59 AVi price) just a few short years ago. Still, I've only read reviews about them.

I'll have a 981 in house this week. I'm anxious to see how the video/audio compares over digital connections (HDMI) vs my previous all Pioneer set up.

Taking the analog processing out of the equation (as much as you possibly can) should yield sterling results. We'll see.

The 981 doesn't support DSD over HDMI
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post #115 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

The 981 doesn't support DSD over HDMI

Hmmmmm....sure about that?

From Oppo's web site...

"Optimized Audio Features:

* High-resolution multi-channel digital audio output through HDMI supporting CD, DVD-Audio, SACD, Dolby Digital and DTS sound tracks.
* Individual analog 5.1-channel surround and down-mixed stereo outputs
* 24-bit, 192kHz high resolution audio D/A converters
* Optical and coaxial digital audio outputs with DTS, Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro-Logic II and Linear PCM support
* 3D Surround (Virtual Surround): Concert, Live, Dance, Techno, Classic, Soft
* Built-in equalizer, channel trim and channel delay functions

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #116 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 04:47 PM
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if you don't mind DSD converted to PCM for HDMI 1.1 output it won't matter or you use bass management or DSP on the receiver it will convert it to PCM anyway. It is in the manual, DSD converted to PCM within the player and output under the HDMI 1.1 spec. Again if you were going to use DSP or bass management that is what you will end up with anyway.

It is in the fine print, sorry, you have to be like a lawyer with this HDMI crap. If it is important to you look for HDMI 1.2 or above and DSD specifically instead of SACD support over HDMI (which only means you can play an SACD and listen to it using HDMI). Currently the 980H is the only HDMI 1.2 player with DSD output from Oppo (maybe the 983H?). The site is a little misleading, the 970 did the same thing with DSD as the 981.

P.S. Please don't kill the messenger
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post #117 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 05:00 PM
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Given that at least a couple of owners or reviewers of the 58 found the video less than what they expected, I think waiting for the pending release of Oppo's 983 may be warranted.

I am in the market for a SD DVD player but I want to get the most bang for my investment as I look down the road to adopting a Blue Ray player in the next couple of years (most current Blue Ray players need work particularly when it comes to SD play back).

I like the looks of the 58 but not the price - not at this late stage in the product life cycle of SD players. Take Denon, IMO they are so out of touch with reality in terms of their pricing structure. The Oppo 983 is estimated to be prices at the mid $300s which is a bit high still but we all know how good they are when it comes to video play back. All things being equal, they are the gold standard at the moment (considering price vs performance).

Personally, I will wait for the 983 and continue reading what others have to say about the 58 before going shopping. c. One caveat, if I am able to find a 58 for a bargin basement price - upper $200s to very, very low $300, I may jump at it. eBay can have some terrific bargains - timing is everything. Ex. a practically new 48 sold tonight for $115.
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post #118 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 06:09 PM
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One caveat, if I am able to find a 58 for a bargin basement price - upper $200s to very, very low $300, I may jump at it. eBay can have some terrific bargains - timing is everything. Ex. a practically new 48 sold tonight for $115.

From what I saw and heard, if you're paying more than what a 980H costs, you're wasting your money, IMHO. The only reason I could see paying more is if the cosmetic appearance means a lot to you or you plan on getting it mod'ed.
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post #119 of 1057 Old 02-10-2008, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

if you don't mind DSD converted to PCM for HDMI 1.1 output it won't matter or you use bass management or DSP on the receiver it will convert it to PCM anyway. It is in the manual, DSD converted to PCM within the player and output under the HDMI 1.1 spec. Again if you were going to use DSP or bass management that is what you will end up with anyway.

It is in the fine print, sorry, you have to be like a lawyer with this HDMI crap. If it is important to you look for HDMI 1.2 or above and DSD specifically instead of SACD support over HDMI (which only means you can play an SACD and listen to it using HDMI). Currently the 980H is the only HDMI 1.2 player with DSD output from Oppo (maybe the 983H?). The site is a little misleading, the 970 did the same thing with DSD as the 981.

P.S. Please don't kill the messenger

Not killing the messenger, at all.

A few years ago I was knee deep in all the latest DACs, the best DVD players, best video/audio, most direct connections, etc.

Lived happily with my choices...until I started seeing much better images cropping up around me.

As soon as I resigned myself to being unhappy with what I had in my HT, the upgrade lust started, again.

Things have changed and I'm immersing myself once more.

Oppo says they are transmitting data in a digital format. I've seen all the reviews. All of them are stellar.

Now I'm relying on you fine people to tell me I'm thinking right. If you're saying the 980 fits what I'm looking for, so be it. I'll change my order tomorrow.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #120 of 1057 Old 02-11-2008, 03:14 AM
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Not killing the messenger, at all.

A few years ago I was knee deep in all the latest DACs, the best DVD players, best video/audio, most direct connections, etc.

Lived happily with my choices...until I started seeing much better images cropping up around me.

As soon as I resigned myself to being unhappy with what I had in my HT, the upgrade lust started, again.

Things have changed and I'm immersing myself once more.

Oppo says they are transmitting data in a digital format. I've seen all the reviews. All of them are stellar.

Now I'm relying on you fine people to tell me I'm thinking right. If you're saying the 980 fits what I'm looking for, so be it. I'll change my order tomorrow.

I know you are not killing the messenger. I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were getting and wouldn't be disappointed when you saw that in the manual, better video versus DSD over HDMI, a trade off that may or may not exist with the 983.
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