Kenwood Sovereign System (Changer, Entre, and Receiver) Issues and Answers - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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"next generation entre"
"From my Kenwood corporate rep"

Now this is totally news to me seeing that the Entre really just came out. If this was the case, I would think your store would not want the current lineup until the new one came out.

This to me makes no sense seeing Kenwood is working on an interface for the current unit to control more than one changer.

BTW...The issue was not with the Entre alone...but also with the changers because the changers only have one RS232 port and no passthrough port so you can link units.

Whos your rep? Would love to talk with him.


(BTW...As far as your CRT post...It seems to me you bought something you really did no research on...thus I think this is why no one is really responding I am sorry to say. )

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post #272 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 08:51 AM
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Next generation, huh?

Your corporate rep say what Kenwood intends to do about this generation?

Nick
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post #273 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 10:00 AM
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What a friendly forum, try to give an insight to something i heard and alls I can say is wow. I think I can show my self the door.
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post #274 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 10:10 AM
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kman i think you misread our comments. we are all a bit frustrated by kenwood, not you. if kenwood is about to release a better entre than what these guys currently have, they will have a reason to be displeased.

please do continue to contribute.

dsmark found an advanced code that takes you directly to the visual osd display where you can turn off subtitles. do a search on 5900 and it's the thread about the 5900 without the entre. he lists the hex code there.

rather be lucky than good.
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post #275 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 11:04 AM
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Do, stay Kman. In order to get the real flavor for some of these comments, you would have had to read the entirety of this thread, and an earlier one that I started on the attributes of the 5900.

To sum it up, it goes like this: Apart from the numerous glitches with the Entre/5900, which Kenwood and OpenGlobe have been working on, there was one issue which has had my goat from day one: After buying two changers, the Entre, and selling off my older Pioneer changers, learning that the Entre did not do anything with more than one changer. I was furious, because there's no getting around the fact that that's what they advertised, and I grew even more contemptuous when I got a number of denials from Kenwood that they'd ever said it, and I would simply tell them to read their own website.

There have been a variety of explanations for this, and, depending on your vantage point, you really have to judge for yourself whether they've been good ones. The best news on the subject has been what David Bott says, i.e., the hardware fix is "in the works." Keep in mind that, when the issue first got uncovered, the first retort from Kenwood was something like "90 days." The time kept getting pushed back, and now all they'll say is that they're working on it, with no real commitment as to when. Translated, that means they have the best intentions, but there are no guarantees. To me, that's a big "Maybe."

Well, in the midst of all this reassurance and certainty (gasp!--choke!--calling Heimlich!!), you posted that Kenwood's corporate representative said something about a next generation, which, by definition, implies a former generation. Guess who that is?

Now, I've probably been guilty of slamming Kenwood too much for this, but David will later turn out guiltier if Kenwood doesn't make good, because he's been preaching the forgiveness/give them time gospel. In the end, we're all after the same thing, which is a really cool product. And, despite my qualms about the Entre, I don't want to be without it. Oh, if they don't get the problem solved, they'll owe us something--money, products, whatever, because that's what we thought we were purchasing; but the good still outweighs the bad.

So, you thought you were just passing on friendly information. Wear shoes in this snake pit, KMan (just kidding--or am I?). In any event, don't go away, don't think we're unfriendly, and give us the name, phone number, and home address of that Kenwood representative, so, depending on how things wind up, we can either send him gifts or egg his house.

Nick
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post #276 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Nick..Great Sum Up!

And I will say...if the changer controler does not happen for whatever reason...I will be the one that will be totally ticked off unless they replace our units with the "new" units.

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post #277 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 12:10 PM
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I will try to keep everyone up to date, and believe me I understand the bitterness, the reason I am going through this thread is so I can understand tHe hurdles going forward with this product and not mislead my customers in anyway as our store is backing this in a major way. I'm not sure of many other large retail electronics stores supporting this line?
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post #278 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 12:26 PM
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Just remember this, as you keep us posted: Kenwood has been NOTORIOUS through this whole Odyssey of telling different things to different people. That's not necessarily being duplicitous: It's usually not the same person doing the talking, but Kenwood has a plague-like version of left hands being surprised that right hands even exist.

So, yes, I was interested when you said something about your corporate representative, but hang out with the hard-cores on this thread for awhile, and you will find your representative exhibiting the symptoms of terminal doublespeak. The real dilemma of it is that he or she may actually believe what is being said. Study this thread, particularly the questions that have been asked a number of times over, and you're going to win every version of Who-Can-Stump-The-Kenwood-Representative at work.

Nonetheless, do keep us posted. And, just remember, if people articulate skepticism, it's not being directed at you.

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post #279 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 12:51 PM
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I definetely will hang around this thread to keep up to date, i will say this the represenative I have been hearing this from is pretty high up on the food chain. But I to always take everything he says with a grain of salt.
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post #280 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 07:30 PM
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Internet radio and lock ups problems are the fault of my cable modem, so says my retailer.

Havn't heard from Kenwood so I called the store I bought my Entre from and they state there is a problem with the modem my ISP supplied and I need to upgrade my modem. This area just switched to Comcast cable and I have a 2 year old Tosihba modem, they said I need the new Motorola modem. I'll contact Comcast about this modem.
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post #281 of 6894 Old 02-02-2002, 08:51 PM
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Does the Entre support both 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios ?

Thanks, /Lars
Plano, TX

Lars Berglund
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post #282 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as the cobble modem being the issue...

I would love to know where this store got that information. I say this because several of us have this issue from time to time and 10 to 1 we all do not use the same cable modem or even DSL for that matter. Do you have lockups with other Internet based items?



Lars158: Not sure what your question is referring to. Does it pass-though 4:3 and 16:9? Yes. Is the on screen menus has the option of 4:3 vs 16:9...no. But I run it 16:9 on two displays and it really is not any issue. Hope this helps.

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post #283 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 05:47 AM
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Thanks, I was referring to the Entre OSD. I agree it's possible to live with a 4:3 output on a 16:9 screen, but of course my preference would be to have a 16:9 output option for the OSD.

David, I am interested to hear about your 2 screen setup with the Entre. Is it a multi room setup? Do you have one output via the component and one via s-video?

Lars Berglund
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post #284 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 07:37 AM
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Re: PC control of playlist
Someone asked about this (well it seemed this as part of what they asked about)...you can create/maintain your audio playlist (cd/mp3) from the internet. It is weak and limited but it is there. https://www.openglobe.net/kenwood .

Re: lockups
I'm happy to say I don't remember specifically having a lockup traversing the menus or doing the internet radio. I may have but if so I don't remember at this moment. Keep in mind that I have never used NetNamer or have done anything unique with mine (Entre connected to 5900 connected with Denon 5800 rec). I download updates regularly and use internet/ethernet cable access. (p.s. wait...someone asked me once in a thread I think if I used NetNamer and I didn't respond...I think...sorry)

Axcess
Have others got this and I missed it. Perhaps David did as I saw a post where he mentioned avent or some such thing. David we know how you like 'word puzzles' so I'm guessing you have the 'axcess'

David's Kenwood gospel
Actually I like it. I like his positive attitude, his enthusiasm and his "relationship" with Kenwood. Actually, I think there have been some fantastic exchanges about the good and the bad of the 'situation' and I agree whole-heartedly. Many hardcore long timers to this are making excellent contributions from all perspectives. I hope Kenwood can fix the several of the issues that are coming up and improve the Entre' even beyond the "problems" we are seeing.

1.0.1.1 release improvements
Aside from the 1:45 thing, there was supposed to be some grand bio and DVD information improvement thing. I have not gone back numerous threads where David held someones hand to that new feature. Heck, it seemed I should be able to just find it without even looking that hard. I haven't yet. Mostly for Brian (kenwood mgr) purpose...can you get that tip/improvement site up or put a "what's new" in the menu system or something. Throw us a bone please...please...we are seeing mirages and we are dying here. Like an the excellent previous post...we'd think you guys would be trying pretty hard to please us "loyal" new-customers as we have friends (internet and personal) who may want to buy something.

Kenwood Entre website changed!!!
Oh my...either I'm hallucinating....or on the Entré spec site they have removed the references to the DV5900/DV5050 DVD players in the left hand area "Like what you see? You're sure to enjoy these too:". They don't even mention specifics in the text or have a hyperlink to them just basic text. Oversite? So they are discouraging people of connecting the two Update: ... I looked again and it is there...my bad...what actually looks like is happening is that they only show 4 items so it changes everytime you go there...doh!

Thanks all for your great past threads.

Scott Fauque (F200) - - - Fauque's PMT (Personal Movie Theater) (as of 26-Nov-2001)
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post #285 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Lars158...

I use the Entre/5900 setup for both my theater an whole house distribution. The Component Out feeds the theater and the S-Video and Composite feeds the rest of the home though a distribution block.

The S-Video runs 70 feet to the family room on a Better Cables Silver Serpent cable. Then it feeds into a Kenwood 5090 receiver and then out via Component to the Sony 57" XBR2. The S-Video from the receive feeds a 24" Sony Vega in the spa room. Note that this setup means that any source I have on in the family room is also feed into the spa room. This is fine for the room are side by side and it is only my wife and I in the home so muti source is not an issue.

The composite out of the Entre feeds the back rooms in the home. Office, master bedroom, and guest/reading room.

Setting up like this allows us to select a DVD (or AUDIO) from the Entre and feed it into any room or multi rooms. Yes, the same source is feed into all rooms. Like I said, it is just us so not a problem. This is one of the reasons I wanted the Entre and 5900, for all the on screen display of the media items we use.

Hope this helps.

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post #286 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 09:06 AM
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Popular Mechanics Design and Engineering award

Perhaps I missed this being mentioned...did you guys see this? I saw the icon/plaque for it when I visited the Entre site earlier. Strange irony that the reviewer only mentions MP3/CDs .
PM D and E Award
.

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post #287 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Scott... (what, having trouble speaking or reading Bottinese. )

From what I know the Axcess is not out yet and I am waiting to see if I can get on a list to get an advance unit so I can report back about it. No such luck as of yet I am sorry to say.

The other post I made was that OpenGlode is now partnering with "Sirius Satellite" for Internet audio. That is great news! I called it Avent when I should have said Sirius Satellite. (opps)

As far as the DVD Information...I am not sure what you are looking for. If you mean the movie information itself, it is their, but to read it you must go into the EDIT mode when you are on that movie. This information was suppose to be displayable using the INFO button to toggle the display back and fourth. For some reason it was removed. However, all is not yet lost for when they release the new Movie Database to the Entre (via OpenGlobe service), you will be able to see all kinds of information and cross reference that information in the database right from the Entre. They have done this now with the Music library to some extent.

I put in my .02 at CES and said they should consider making the INFO button auto jump you into the OpenGlobe Movie database for the movie you currently have highlighted. I hope they do this.

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post #288 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 09:40 AM
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David,

bottinese
Thanks for the replies. I did try this look up http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=Bottinese but no luck so I suppose it is some more bottinese . Honestly I realize you must be involved in hundreds of post a day so I do cut you some slack (well in my mind but I like give you a hard time verbally...ya know I haven't forgiven you for misleading us about the ethernet adapter thing )

Sirius Satellite internet radio
Thanks for the claification. To be frank, I thought their internet radio was/is pretty bad. Sometimes just having the station letters. At least it is 'categorized'. I suppose it has a lot who they are partnering with and what 'feeds' they are given. I'm sure the developers are not to happy about it either. I suppose they use/see MS Media Player or the like and see what the potential is. Related to Axcess...I was sure that someone mentioned that it was becoming available in an earlier post so I was thinking you may have gotten one of the first ones...thus why I jumped to that conclusion.

INFO button
I do recall that DVD info is available in the EDIT mode and not displayed in using-the-product-mode which is what is/was shown in the crutchfield sites pictures (mislead again). No doubt it was yanked for some technical reason but oddly is still available in EDIT mode. I recall in a way earlier post when hadn't read the manual (heck couldn't find it...doh! (Tom B clued me as I recall))....that as I was just using the product I was really confused what the INFO button was for as it wasn't intuitive. It would seem natural/obvious to make the 'info' button provide additional info like you/I/others suggested. What is 'there' and what I must have read was related to the CD info.

BTW, thanks for the review of your setup to Lars158. It was interesting...of course I have two RG6s going to each room so I'll have to figure out something.

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post #289 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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"bottinese"...a play on words. My last name is Bott. (Unless you were kidding.)

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post #290 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 08:12 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by David Bott
"bottinese"...a play on words. My last name is Bott. (Unless you were kidding.)

Plus, it sounds better than Bottulism

Hey, wait - you guys can't carry me out of here...get your hands off me! Don't you know I designed the network adapter used by the Entre'? LET ME GO!!! HELP!!!



P.S. Don't rip more than 8 CDs at a time without letting the Entre' background encode them...I've been doing 8 at a time for a while without a problem, but tried 10 today. The Entre' hung during encoding, and would hang minutes after multiple reboots until I deleted the ripped but still unencoded CDs.
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post #291 of 6894 Old 02-03-2002, 10:28 PM
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David, thanks for the info on your configuration. Pretty impressive newtork using all video outputs from the Entre. How did you handle the audio connections to the other rooms??

My plan is to use the component out for my DLP projector in the dedicated home theater (110 inch 16:9 screen) and use the composite out for our family room TV (36 inch 4:3). The s-video out will go to our bedroom's RPTV (57 inch 16:9).

The main issues I have with setup are the following:

1) I need a 150 feet s-video cable from the Ente to our bedroom. My concern is that this will degrade the video signal leading to a significant loss in picture quality. The other problem is to have the same length digital audio cable (coax), which I am not sure is possible...
2) How to get digital audio out to all three rooms? As far as I understand there is only one digital out (optical) from the Entre. Is there something like a "optical to multiple coax" converter box??? I am sure there is but probably very expensive...
3) How to control the Entre from all rooms. How strong is the VR-5900 RF remote? I was hoping it will go through all rooms in the house, but I understand from a few reviews that at best it will go through one wall.

Any ideas/tips on these issues ?

Lars Berglund
Plano, TX
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post #292 of 6894 Old 02-04-2002, 10:30 AM
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Lars158,

Wow.......150 feet of S-Video cable! Un-amplified (un-boosted) S-Video starts to degrade after 10-12 feet.

You had better use an S-Video line amplifier and good quality cables for a run as long as you need. You probably shouldn't run composite cabling past 10-12 feet without amplification, either.

Several companies produce video line amplifiers. I have an Inline S-Video amplifier and Camelot makes a great one too.

Considering the superb images produced by the Denon 5900 and 5700 DVD players, great care should also be paid to the video signal path outside the player so attenuation, Y/C delay/mismatch, and/or component delay/mismatch are not introduced.

Phil
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post #293 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 06:11 AM
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thought you guys might find this of interest.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=5900

rather be lucky than good.
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post #294 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 07:02 AM
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Nick,

That was an excellent summary. I was/am in practically the EXACT same situation as you - migrated from Pioneer changer to Kenwoods, only to find out that not only was the interface practically useless but I couldn't even perform the most basic of functions - having my whole DVD collection in one place, available on demand.

Fortunately for me I stumbled on this group (after many frustrating conversations with Kenwood) before my money-back return timeframe expired. If they do get the bugs ironed out though, I will be first in line to re-buy everything though!

I guess time will tell if Kenwood is serious about the upper-middle market segment, or if I will be running to "CD binders" everytime I want to watch a movie until Pioneer or somebody else comes out with a solution.

Anyway, great forum, great post. Thanks.


Mike
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post #295 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Mike...Welcome to the site...

You had said "...only to find out that not only was the interface practically useless..."

Might I ask what interface you are referring to. For you did not mention using the Entre and if you were, then I have to disagree for the Entre to changer for selection works fine.

If you were not using the Entre, then you can connect up to 3 changers together. (Though I personally do not like their on screen selection method.)

Just looking for what you meant.

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post #296 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 09:18 AM
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Just a note my rep had asked for a link to this segement, not that it makes much difference but it has now been forwarded to him and our corporate office/buyers
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post #297 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Kman1011...So you know...Their is NO new version of the Entre on the way. Spoke with Kenwood last night and this is their current line for quite some time to come.

They would also love to know who this rep was that was saying their was new product coming out.

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post #298 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 10:08 AM
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>You had said "...only to find out that not only was the interface >practically useless..."

>Might I ask what interface you are referring to. For you did not >mention using the Entre and if you were, then I have to >disagree for the Entre to changer for selection works fine.

I was referring to the interface of the changer itself (I had two DV-5050Ms, connected together). I was in fact in the midst of ordering the Entre, thinking it would make the system usable, when I stumbled on this forum.

>If you were not using the Entre, then you can connect up to 3 >changers together. (Though I personally do not like their on >screen selection method.)

Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of usable. To me, "usable" is pretty basic - the user should be able to press a button on my ProntoPro and view onscreen a list of all the movies in the library. I am willing to do whatever behind-the-scenes tricks are necessary to make that happen.

But no such luck. To perform the above task, the user would have to either: (1) Know which DVD was in which changer, or (2) Scroll through multiple lists from top to bottom. Absolutely ridiculous. There are a million other "stupid" things about the interface (no sorting, no simple disc-number entry, etc) too but all would be forgiven if I could just accomplish the above.

You should've seen the look on my wife's face when I told her that, almost $2,000 later, she had less functionality than with our (albeit non-progressive) Pioneer DV-F727. Pretty funny actually.

I'm perfectly willing to buy the Entre to solve the interface situation, but alas, despite claims on their site to the contrary it only controls one changer. Add to that the fact that the picture was absolutely horrible from the "slave" unit when in progressive mode and I'd had enough (i'm sure that last one just means one of them had bad pass-through hardware and a replacement would've fixed it).

Yes, I am aware that they are working on the multi-control issue. But unfortunately they would give me absolutely no commitment as to the timeframe, method, or even existence of the eventual fix. It's also a little irksome that to get what is to me basic functionality I will need to buy not only changers but another device (the Entre) which, for me, is way overkill. I already have a PC-based IP music system throughout my house so the non-DVD functions of the Entre are wasted on me.

Like I said though, if they get the bugs worked out I'll shell out the cash. Fortunately we have folks like you to monitor them for us.


Mike
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post #299 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 06:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mdownard
Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of usable. To me, "usable" is pretty basic - the user should be able to press a button on my ProntoPro and view onscreen a list of all the movies in the library. I am willing to do whatever behind-the-scenes tricks are necessary to make that happen.

But no such luck. To perform the above task, the user would have to either: (1) Know which DVD was in which changer, or (2) Scroll through multiple lists from top to bottom. Absolutely ridiculous. There are a million other "stupid" things about the interface (no sorting, no simple disc-number entry, etc) too but all would be forgiven if I could just accomplish the above.

Mike

Mike,

Here is the macro that will perform the above scenario using the Pronto and DV-5900M:

Pre-work:
- Define a USER FILE as "Movies"
- Assign all movies in changer to User File above
- Label all movie discs (via NetNamerDV or manually using keyboard)

Macro:
1. Press LIBRARY
2. Press DOWN ARROW
3. Press ENTER
4. Press DOWN ARROW number of times until user file "Movies" is selected (on mine, Movies is user file2, so I hit the down arrow ONCE)
5. Press ENTER

DONE! You now have a filtered list of all the movies in your changer, by name, in disc slot order. At this point, you can scroll down one by one, or screen by screen. Or, you can even do a key-letter search WITHIN this filtered list!
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post #300 of 6894 Old 02-05-2002, 07:01 PM
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Jon:

I tried a similar macro and failed. I then got frustrated and gave up. But I have some similar experiences to Mike, and he has definite points.

First, consider the following. The Pioneer DV-F727 is several years old. It was the second mega-disc changer to be released, following the Sony 850 by just a few months. The F727 had a menu button, and all you did was press it. Up popped a real menu list of discs to point and click on.

Now, perhaps your macro actually does work, although it seems to me that it will only work with the player in a paticular starting position. I might be wrong, and I hope I am, but my real point is that you had to perform precarious acrobatics in order to get the Kenwood to sea level with the now-ancient Pioneer. This is just crazy. The name of the game is simplicity, not some byzantine puzzle.

In fact, I had worked out a macro that would work on my Pioneer (had two of them) that would work from any point in the player. With my ProntoPro, I had downloaded cover art and made each disc jacket cover art the macro button to summon that disc. Even if I wanted to, I don't believe I could do that with the Kenwoods.

Thus, while I am enamored of the possibilities of the Entre, and some of the things it really does offer, let's not forget that the Entre/DV-5900M/DV-5050M are really part of a larger scheme. Even on its best day, the Entre controlling the DVD changer is still clumsy to manipulate (two remotes), and is limited by the options it doesn't have (such as the aforementioned menu on the DVD changer).

But, such is the fare of the early adopter. We're doing the right thing by keeping the discussion going, and I exhort everyone to keep it constructive. But that doesn't mean refraining from criticism. In fact, some times it means conceding the limitations of the Entre/DVD Changer, and expressing dissatisfaction with it. It won't get better if we're only praising it.

In fact, the Entre/DV-5900M is probably the most controversial electronic product I've ever encountered. Yes, the good still outweighs the bad, but I've never seen any one consumer A/V product that deserves as much praise and as much condemnation at the same time.

Nick
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