Kenwood Sovereign System (Changer, Entre, and Receiver) Issues and Answers - Page 19 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #541 of 6894 Old 05-29-2002, 12:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Rudmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Also I just bought the system and I already I have to have the remote sent out to be re-programmed. The powertouch remote doesn't have the codes for the entre. Can I do this myself?

How useful is the 2 way function on the remote? I have a ProntoPro that I want to use but don't know how important the 2 way communication is.
When programmed for entre does the powertouch remote display catalog info from entre?

Thanks
Rudmeister
Rudmeister is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #542 of 6894 Old 05-29-2002, 01:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Benicia, CA , U.S.A.
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the Pronto tip! I tried the macro last night and it seemed to work. From what previous posters mentioned it seemed like I needed to simulate a press and hold of the Stop key, which is not easy to implement on the Pronto. Seems like just invoking the Stop command twice works, however. Thanks again.

Tom
Tom Blake is offline  
post #543 of 6894 Old 05-29-2002, 01:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Benicia, CA , U.S.A.
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does anyone here have any DVD-A discs that feature a 2 channel 24/192 soundtrack? The only one I have that does is Hotel California by the Eagles. I know there are a few others as well. When I play this soundtrack on the 5900M using the L/R analog outs of the 5.1 multichannel analog outs, I get a crackling sound persistent throughout the disc. This is very similar to the earlier documented problem problem with 24/96 audio-only DVD's (Classic, Chesky, etc). When I play the 24/96 5.1 track on Hotel California I don't get the crackling sound. Note that I downmixed to 2 channel for the 5.1 track as my pre/pro does not have 5.1 analog inputs. If anyone has the Hotel California DVD-A (or any other disc with a 2 channel 24/192 soundtrack), if you could try playing this on the 5900M I would appreciate it. If you get a crackling sound as well, it would seem there's another incompatability with the 5900M DACs. TIA for anyone who can run this experiement!

Tom
Tom Blake is offline  
post #544 of 6894 Old 05-31-2002, 04:50 AM
 
Floydbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've posted a ccf on the remote central site that allows for the direct selection of the first 229 disks in the Kenwood DV-5900M DVD changer. It is in the beta file area currently. From the main remote central page click the new pronto file area link on the left side of the page then folow through into the Kenwood DVD area of the beta file section.

As to why 229, beacuse that's as far as I've needed to go so far

With a little caution you should be able to merge it into your existing setup...
Floydbob is offline  
post #545 of 6894 Old 05-31-2002, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nick Satullo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: highland hts., ohio, USA
Posts: 3,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Floydbob
I've posted a ccf on the remote central site that allows for the direct selection of the first 229 disks in the Kenwood DV-5900M DVD changer. It is in the beta file area currently. From the main remote central page click the new pronto file area link on the left side of the page then folow through into the Kenwood DVD area of the beta file section.

As to why 229, beacuse that's as far as I've needed to go so far

With a little caution you should be able to merge it into your existing setup...

What's the command sequence to choosing a disc in a particular numbered slot?

Also, does the sequence work from any "point" (such as while another disc is running), or must you be stopped? Your input is appreciated.

Nick
Nick Satullo is offline  
post #546 of 6894 Old 05-31-2002, 10:16 AM
 
Floydbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
For example disc 199:
Stop
Delay .5
Disc Select
Delay .5
100
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
Delay .5
Play
Jump to Transport Screen

So, it will work if the player is stopped or running.

If you load the ccf, you can touch "Disk Direct Index" then "A"
Then "Airplane" for a sample aproach to indexing.

The "Airplane" button executes the macro for disk 116 then jumps
back to the DVD-Main Page.
Floydbob is offline  
post #547 of 6894 Old 06-01-2002, 10:53 PM
Member
 
MediaStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hoffman Estates, IL
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by David Bott
I do not think this will be allowed because of the MacroVision rules. When you flash a rom...it is a complete wipe and load. Thus all the macrovision items would also be in the code you flash it with. In other words...if someone has the code...it can be hacked and thus MacroVision removed.

I know the unit is CDR upgradeable with just a CDR in the unit...But again...same issue as above.

I do not disagree with you not wanting to ship it. But if it comes down to that...I will be doing it.

David,

This makes sense to some degree but if you want the code off of the ROM itself there are numerous tools available in the IC industry that would facilitate copying the current rom and extracting the code.

The extracted code would match the flash image used to burn the ROM which be the same as used with a firmware update loaded via your own PC.

Granted the equipment to do this is fairly expensive but in the end if someone wants the code off of the 5900 ROM and has enough experience to modify it to remove MacroVision then acquiring the ROM contents directly from the unit would be a trivial barrier vs. a PC based flash update installer. They can get it either way and the PC based update would save them maybe an hour or less anyway.

Additionally, the MacroVision routines are used in nearly all of the commercially available PC DVD player software which a user may freely install or update without sending their entire PC in to get a software update which is a sharp contrast to 5900 owners being required to send in the unit for a firmware update.

Not to mention that there are numerous hardware solutions that can be used inline on the video signal to remove the MacroVision signal already which are easily obtainable for $50 or less. A quick trip to BestBuy is all that is required to defeat the MacroVision signal so I am unclear why MacroVision would require Kenwood to go through these ridiculous hoops.

It would also be extremely easy to acquire the software from a Kenwood service center if you had a friend or relative employed there which would be nearly impossible for Kenwood to police outside of requiring all units to be sent back to Kenwood directly which would seem cost prohibitive, labor intensive and a huge burden on existing owners.

I also wonder how many 5900 owners are even really concerned or interested in MacroVision removal. Not that I would mind it overall but with the numerous issues and problems with lockups and etc. the last thing I would want to do is run hacked firmware on one. There is also the issue of a limited user base to begin with and most MacroVision hacks are targeted to low to mid priced units that easily have 10 to 20 times (or more) units in the marketplace.

All I want is a permanent fix to random bursts of lockups which continue to come and go. It will run fine for a couple of months and out of the blue it will lose its' mind and decide that discs are unreadable again which will last for a few minutes, few hours or sometimes a few days. It is insanely frustrating when it occurs during a viewing which blows the whole mood or interest in the movie all together.
MediaStorm is offline  
post #548 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 06:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slocko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: old bridge, nj
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm glad i am not the only one experiencing this problem. I wonder if it's because I leave it on 24/7.


Quote:


Originally posted by MediaStorm



All I want is a permanent fix to random bursts of lockups which continue to come and go. It will run fine for a couple of months and out of the blue it will lose its' mind and decide that discs are unreadable again which will last for a few minutes, few hours or sometimes a few days. It is insanely frustrating when it occurs during a viewing which blows the whole mood or interest in the movie all together.


rather be lucky than good.
slocko is offline  
post #549 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
David Bott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Traveling The USA
Posts: 11,672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
MediaStorm....

At this point I, nor you, I think can know how they have their eproms setup and what can and can not be done with flashing. You are assuming it is setup like some others when it may not be.

"...hardware solutions that can be used inline on the video signal to remove the MacroVision signal..."

Sure someone can use external equipment in the line...but that is not Kenwwod fault then is it? But sending out a CDR that could be hacked would be their fault.


"...numerous tools available in the IC industry that would facilitate copying the current rom and extracting the code. "

Sure...again...not of Kenwood fault.


"the MacroVision routines are used in nearly all of the commercially available PC DVD player software which a user may freely install or update..."

This I do not get at all. Have you ever installed or updated macrovision? I for one have never heard of anyone doing any such thing. So maybe I just do not understand the above.


So...All I do know about this and can agree with why is that if the macrovison code gets out on a disc like mentioned, it is a 1 million dollar fine to the manufacture for each issue. Thus...they will do what it takes not to not let this mappen. Their already was one company, I forget who, that was hit with the fine and had to pay it.


Oh..on the lockups. I am sorry to tell you that I persoanlly have not had any. (that is good for me...but bad for you.) Sorry.

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

David Bott is offline  
post #550 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 09:48 AM
Member
 
MediaStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hoffman Estates, IL
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
At this point I, nor you, I think can know how they have their eproms setup and what can and can not be done with flashing. You are assuming it is setup like some others when it may not be.

I don't claim to have specific knowledge on how the Kenwood unit is built but Kenwood has acknowledged on more than one ocassion that it is possible to flash the units to update the firmware. I've been told this as well as others so it is a basic assumption based on info from Kenwood.

------------------------

Sure someone can use external equipment in the line...but that is not Kenwwod fault then is it? But sending out a CDR that could be hacked would be their fault.

"...numerous tools available in the IC industry that would facilitate copying the current rom and extracting the code. "

Sure...again...not of Kenwood fault.

Right, neither instance provides any protection for MacroVision or direct liability for Kenwood but still allow the code to be acquired with minimal effort which makes MacroVision's efforts to protect the code somewhat futile.

------------------------

"the MacroVision routines are used in nearly all of the commercially available PC DVD player software which a user may freely install or update..."

This I do not get at all. Have you ever installed or updated macrovision? I for one have never heard of anyone doing any such thing. So maybe I just do not understand the above.

Have you ever installed a software based DVD player on your PC? WinDVD and etc. all use MacroVision code as well. The basic code routines and processing are very similar to what would be found in the Kenwood rom image. My point was that I do not understand the basic differences between WindDVD distributing updates that contain MacroVision code and Kenwood sending out flashable updates. It seems that MacroVision is directly contradicting their position on the issue by using different standards for each application of the MacroVision code.

------------------------

So...All I do know about this and can agree with why is that if the macrovison code gets out on a disc like mentioned, it is a 1 million dollar fine to the manufacture for each issue. Thus...they will do what it takes not to not let this mappen. Their already was one company, I forget who, that was hit with the fine and had to pay it.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of this event and the specifics behind it. It is interesting that MacroVision is so concerned about protecting their code while others like Dolby Labs and etc. don't share a similar concern. Onkyo and others have released firmware updates for their receivers to add additional Dolby and DTS features via updates directly available to the consumer. Granted these are slightly different animals but I find it strange that Dolby Labs and DTS don't share the same concerns as MacroVision does despite the fact that MacroVision does not place the same constraints on WindDVD or any other software on the PC that DOES use the MacroVision code as well.

------------------------

Oh..on the lockups. I am sorry to tell you that I persoanlly have not had any. (that is good for me...but bad for you.) Sorry.

Consider yourself lucky on this one. I know I am not alone with this problem and it is insanely frustrating as it is very unpredictable and there is no quick workaround to solve it. I've tried to reproduce the problem and cannot find any specific set of events that will make the unit exhibit the problem. It shows up completely randomly and goes away the same. What works one time (removing the disc from the slot, power cycling etc.) won't work the next time and the problem may show up once in three months or 10 times in one day. Leaving the unit on 24/7 seems to minimize the problem somewhat but it is a coin toss each time you watch a disc. I hold my breath everytime we have company over to watch movies. It doesn't have anything to do with the condition of the discs in the unit either. All of my discs come straight from the store and go straight into the changer and are NEVER removed again. The problem is not related to a specific disc either. A disc that won't work one day will work perfectly the next day. Ironically, ALL of the discs play flawlessly in an $85 Samsung that has never once locked up or shown other character flaws. I never had any issues with the Sony DVD changer that the Kenwood replaced either despite the fact that others had a few problems with their Sony units. That same Sony is now upstairs and gets a much harder workout than the Kenwood does and still shows no signs of these issues.

Despite the Kenwood having such a quirky personality I wouldn't give it up in a second unless there was a better unit available that offered the same audio and picture quality as the 5900. I've not experienced a single issue at all with the VR5700 receiver I bought at the same time and simply wish the 5900 would perform reliably as well.
MediaStorm is offline  
post #551 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 10:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
Carbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Boston, MA , USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Why is it that other DVD manufacturers have sent out CD's to flash their units?
Carbo is offline  
post #552 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 11:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Tom Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Benicia, CA , U.S.A.
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If anyone here has the Eagles - Hotel California DVD-A I would greatly appreciate you trying the 2 channel 24/192 track and telling me if you hear a persistent crackling sound from the 5900M's 5.1 analog outs. I have encountered this with 2 copies of the disc. I'm trying to determine if this is a widespread 5900M problem, or just my player. Two channel 24/96 DVD-A soundtracks play fine on my machine. TIA for any help!

Tom
Tom Blake is offline  
post #553 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
David Bott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Traveling The USA
Posts: 11,672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
"Why is it that other DVD manufacturers have sent out CD's to flash their units?"

Well seeing I have never had to flash a unit...I can not say this is the case even though sure seems it could be. But then again...How one company may have designed a unit does not mean another company made it the same way. One chip for software, one for other items like Macrovision maybe? Thus the flashing would not be the same. Could be. Don't know. But please do not assume because one company did it does not mean all should or could.


MediaStorm...Do think I am trying to argue the case to you. I am just pointing out differences that could make this a totally different case. Kenwood does not want to infringe on Macrovisions rule of use or whatever it may be call. I for one can not blame them. Maybe they will find a away for this this be done...but at this time the unit will need to be sent in.

"but Kenwood has acknowledged on more than one occasion that it is possible to flash the units to update the firmware."

Ture...And I have even said this. But...that does not mean they will send out a disc if it can cause them issues with a company like Marcovision. I guess it all can depend on what is being flashed.

On the second note above...again, it would not be Kenwoods fault and thus not liable. Sending out a disc with the Microvision code would be an issue I am told. From what I know...their different types of microvision.

"MacroVision is directly contradicting their position on the issue by using different standards for each application of the MacroVision code."

And maybe they have different rules for use for the different codes.


As far as the company that was hit with the fine...I do not have any other info for I was told this by another source when I was looking into the CD ROM upgrade restrictions that Kenwood seem to be locked into. More or less I was told "Kenwood would be good to take care with the Macrovision code...For company 'blank' was hit with a 1 million fine for the code getting out." This came from a person also in the DVD unit business. Thus it all came together for me when I was told I would not be able to get a disc to flash with, but would have to send in the unit. It made sense at that point. Again...I hope they can maybe find a way.

As far as the lockup's. Yes...That does not sound good at all I am sorry to say. Have you exchanged the unit at all? Like I had mentioned...with over 400 DVD's used...I have not have on issue like you mention. Esp when you say the disc one day is fine and the next it is not. I read bad unit all over the above text.

Yes...I agree...love the unit and even more with the Entre as the controller.

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

David Bott is offline  
post #554 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slocko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: old bridge, nj
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
David,

It could be, but then the dam thing works fine for months at a time. Then randomly it refuses to read discs. For a while I thought power cycling would fix the problem. Then I thought selecting another disc while one was playing would fix the probelm, but it seems to go away in a random fashion the same way it randomly happens.

I wonder if maybe the carousel occasionally gets misaligned and somehow random movements put back on track again.

I would try to exchange it, but since it's so hard to reproduce it would be dificult to get kenwood to agree to it I imagine. Plus I don't relish the thought of unloading and reloading 300 plus discs and possible having to re-enter the information again since I don't have the entre. I prefer to live with it until the competition pulls ahead.

Quote:


Originally posted by David Bott
[BAs far as the lockup's. Yes...That does not sound good at all I am sorry to say. Have you exchanged the unit at all? Like I had mentioned...with over 400 DVD's used...I have not have on issue like you mention. Esp when you say the disc one day is fine and the next it is not. I read bad unit all over the above text.

Yes...I agree...love the unit and even more with the Entre as the controller. [/b]


rather be lucky than good.
slocko is offline  
post #555 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 12:16 PM
Member
 
MediaStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hoffman Estates, IL
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Carbo
Why is it that other DVD manufacturers have sent out CD's to flash their units?

This is the point I was trying to make with the reference to WinDVD as well. I realize that the platform is different but it is the same general principle. I was aware that other companies had sent firmware updates out for consumer units but I didn't have the time to track down the details and didn't want to reference something I didn't have specific details about in case there were elements that made those upgrades somehow 'different' than what Kenwood could possibly do themselves.

Thanks for pointing this out as another specific conflict in this application. I wonder if there is anyone from MacroVision we could get in touch with who might be able to explain the differences or issues surrounding Kenwood's ability to do what other manufacturers have done for their hardware directly to consumers?

I wonder if this is a change of MacroVision's strategy or position in the industry, a specific element of the particular contract they have with Kenwood, a financial circumstance that limits Kenwood's specific usage or allowed methods of distribution, a misinterpretation of the contract language between the two or what the specific reasoning is that prohibits Kenwood from releasing an update to consumers.

I could understand it from a technical perspective if Kenwood needed to do any hardware updates, calibrations to the hardware to compliment or enable the firmware to operate correctly or if their business model determined that it was financially beneficial and the support costs and shipping would be less expensive than the additional support required to help users with any update difficulties experienced.

In the end though it really doesn't matter what the specific issue surrounding the availability of end user updates is that it is ultimately Kenwood's final call on how to do it. They have minimal financial risk associated with forcing us all to send in the hardware for updates as they already have our money and it won't really affect the sales since new purchasers will simply insist that they get the updated versions when making their purchases.

It's up to Kenwood to find the required balance needed between their obligations to MacroVision, financial economics to implement the upgrade and their relationships with us as their consumers.

Unfortunately, my own opinion (yes, this is my own specific interpretation of the situation based on my own personal experiences with Kenwood technical support and other groups at Kenwood) is that they are more interested in stopping the problem to avoid negative publicity than they are concerned with resolving the problem to increase consumer satisfaction levels with their equipment overall.

I have had numerous contacts with them trying to acquire any details at all on the RS232 protocols used by the unit in order to do development to support the unit. The fact that the 5900 has RS232 control was one of my major reasons for purchasing the unit in the first place. I knew that Pioneer and others had units with RS232 in the marketplace and were more than happy to provide details on RS232 implementation as they understood the value behind having an enthusiastic user base which can have a very positive effect on the bottom line.

When you start factoring all of this together, the overall quirks with the unit, the multi-changer control issues with daisy chaining, their attitude towards providing any additional value for the units by providing requested information to developers that are not a specific P3 partner (IE- NOT using AMX or CRESTRON exclusively), the continued delays fulfilling the initial marketing details (multi-unit control, axxcess with Entre, Entre issues and so on) as well as a web site that is not updated for extended periods of time to correct misstatements or the ever elusive Kenwood store that will open in the next few weeks for the last 6 or 7 months, the nearly unbearable usability and functionality of the NetNamer software, an IR keyboard that is backwards requiring you to hold down shift for lower case letters, etc. then hopefully you can better understand where I am coming from.

My confidence is Kenwood is quite low because they should have told be I was buying beta level hardware in the first place so that I could have made my own decision about the units particular fitness for my own application and usage. In all probability I would have likely still purchased the unit but would had lowered my expectations accordingly. Hopefully they will eventually fill all of the commitments they've made for the units via the marketing materials and through technical support channels at some point in the future. My larger fear is that at some point in the immediate future they determine that the units no longer contribute to their financial model and refocus their efforts on new model releases instead. I will personally never buy another piece of equipment from them until the problems are resolved. I would happily purchase an Entre at that point and if it were not for the fact that the unit was not in stock the day I ordered my 5900 and VR5700 I would own an Entre today. Fortunately (or unfortunately as the case may be) my 5900 started exhibiting lock ups during the first week I had it and I canceled the Entre because I didn't want to increase the probability of additional problems and was seriously considering the possibility of returning the 5900 and would have had much less use for an Entre at that point.

If they can demonstrate to me a true interest in resolving the outstanding issues and that they are making every possible effort to avoid future similar issues I'd be happy to show them a vote of confidence with my investment of an Entre once it has its' own problems sorted out. In short they have to earn my trust again which is far more difficult than seducing a new buyer into making the plunge the first time.

I understand the defensive posture that some forum members have towards the situation but the bottom line is I made the same decision to purchase this equipment as they did and I don't feel like they need to defend their decision to buy the 5900. I feel every bit as entitled to my own opinion of the situation as I spent the same amount of money to acquire the 5900 myself. The 5900 is a high-end unit and as such high expectations are undeniable.

I would be disappointed if I went to buy a BigMac and got home to find a cheeseburger in the bag as well.
MediaStorm is offline  
post #556 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 12:31 PM
Member
 
MediaStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hoffman Estates, IL
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
David,

I am not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill or create any type of conflict or ill-regard towards Kenwood or anyone else involved in this discussion.

I am in fact very appreciative of the AVS Forums and the incredible value that they provide to all of us. There is an incredible amount of knowledge freely shared in these forums and they are tremendously valuable.

I feel sorry for all of the consumers out in the marketplace who don't know about this resource that may be having the same problems as well.

This forum provides a valuable service and I can only imagine how much money it saves Kenwood indirectly as I would have sent my unit in for service multiple times before I knew that I wasn't alone with these problems. Not to mention that when the units came back with the same problems how much lower my confidence would be with Kenwood.

Thanks again.
MediaStorm is offline  
post #557 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 05:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
JonDeutsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: King of Prussia, PA
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
MediaStorm...
Since your unit is obviously defective at some level, you should either get it fixed now or coordinate the fix with the firmware update. My unit has never crashed on me in the 8 months I've owned it. Now, it does hang on CD-Rs sometimes... a reboot of the machine fixes the problem. But, the machine has always reliably played DVDs.

You shouldn't have to cross your fingers to watch a movie. Get it fixed.
JonDeutsch is offline  
post #558 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 05:59 PM
Member
 
MediaStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hoffman Estates, IL
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Jon,

Thanks for the info. There are several of us that are either experiencing the problem randomly or have experienced it at some point in the past several months. I will definately have it checked if it goes in for a firmware update. There is enough of us with the problem that it is unclear where the particular issue is.

I've had had lockups trying to index the discs with NetNamer but isolated that down to a single disc. If the Blair Witch 2 disc is in the unit during the indexing it will lock up the changer completely and force a power cycle to reset it. I've tried 4 different copies of that disc as well. The movie isn't very good anyway but I kept working on the problem to determine where the issue was and why it happened more than anything in case I had similar problems with other discs in the future.

I simply leave that disc out now if I get the urge to run NetNamer which is seldom since the info from DVD Profiler is much better and it is considerably faster to type in the UPC number than to try and index it. Ideally it would work similar to the Slinke with CDJ if you are familiar with that setup. I've coded the majority of a solution to perform the same functions on the 5900 but have not had time to finish it yet. Soon I'll have some time to spend with it again and hope to get it finished now that I have the RS232 information needed.

Out of curiosity, (unrelated to the problem), what has been your experience with VCD or SVCD content? I've had decent success with a few of the VCDs I have made but never been able to get a smooth SVCD playback as the unit stutters constantly. Strangely though it plays back smoothly between scene transitions and such on SVCDs or when the scene is darker with less movement. I don't think that SVCD is actually one of the supported formats anyway but was curious if anyone else was successful or not using VCDs and / or SVCDs. I'd also be curious to know if anyone has tried DVDR discs they've burned themselves and what the success was with those.

When it is working properly it makes little quirks like hitting 100+, 10+ and so on much less of an issue and much more tolerable. Maybe a firmware update could address the play on start issue and add direct disc entry as well. While I'm wishing for stuff I might as well add faster layer transitions and some method of eliminating the disc reads which seem to last an eternity at times.

I've overlooked all of those but strangely enough the random lockups almost always occur during a layer change. The layer changes are bad enough but when it never finishes the layer change and instead pops up the message that this disc type is unreadable it makes me want to scream.

Since the Kenwood replaced the Sony changer I often 'resort' to watching the discs on either my HTPC which also is very visually appealing or the XBOX which is easier yet. Since the lockups usually require removing the disc anyway the XBOX often gets used while the Kenwood is getting a time out for bad behavior. ;-)
MediaStorm is offline  
post #559 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nick Satullo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: highland hts., ohio, USA
Posts: 3,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Tom Blake
If anyone here has the Eagles - Hotel California DVD-A I would greatly appreciate you trying the 2 channel 24/192 track and telling me if you hear a persistent crackling sound from the 5900M's 5.1 analog outs. I have encountered this with 2 copies of the disc. I'm trying to determine if this is a widespread 5900M problem, or just my player. Two channel 24/96 DVD-A soundtracks play fine on my machine. TIA for any help!

Tom

I tried it. But it plays at 48khz, not 96, certainly not 192.

I have the downconversion set to "off" in the DV-5900 menu. I didn't bother looking at at the disc jacket, but it's the Hotel California DVD-Audio.

My audio processor is a Lexicon MC-12B. It is possible that the Lexicon is doing something to the signal, but I can't think of what. The Lexicon displays the frequency the disc is playing at, and it's not 24/96 or 24/192.

I've now gone and retrieved the disc jacket. Nothing on the jacket or the accompanying insert indicates what the two channel is recorded at.

I'm not doubting you, but I did check on your first post, got frustrated, and abandoned it. Some further inquiry is merited, but I'd like first to see that this outputs this rate.

Nick
Nick Satullo is offline  
post #560 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 07:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
JonDeutsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: King of Prussia, PA
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
MediaStorm...

Oh, for sure, my changer has locked up reliably on several DVD-Video discs via the NetNamerDV software! The thing is, once I got around the problem (by unchecking it in the read all discs option), I never read "all discs" again -- only selecting the discs I've added recently to the check list.

So, I've avoided future crashes of the system with certain DVD-V discs during the naming process.

HOWEVER... it's important to note that I do not have locking problems while playing back movies. In other words, it is prone to crashes during setup, but is fairly reliable during playback. I'm OK with this mix, however, I should expect more. And, in fact, I do. I eagerly await getting my firmware update in the mail. Hear that Kenwood?

The 5900M does not play back CD-Rs 100% of the time. It does not play back CD-R VCDs 100% of the time. I have not tried SVCD yet.
JonDeutsch is offline  
post #561 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
David Bott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Traveling The USA
Posts: 11,672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
JonDeutsch....Yes, that is good to note what you are using in the changer.

I have not had any issues and I am only using it for DVD's at this time.

(I am starting to get into DVD-A discs though with the DTS releases.)

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

David Bott is offline  
post #562 of 6894 Old 06-02-2002, 10:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Benicia, CA , U.S.A.
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Nicholas


I tried it. But it plays at 48khz, not 96, certainly not 192.

I have the downconversion set to "off" in the DV-5900 menu. I didn't bother looking at at the disc jacket, but it's the Hotel California DVD-Audio.

My audio processor is a Lexicon MC-12B. It is possible that the Lexicon is doing something to the signal, but I can't think of what. The Lexicon displays the frequency the disc is playing at, and it's not 24/96 or 24/192.

I've now gone and retrieved the disc jacket. Nothing on the jacket or the accompanying insert indicates what the two channel is recorded at.

I'm not doubting you, but I did check on your first post, got frustrated, and abandoned it. Some further inquiry is merited, but I'd like first to see that this outputs this rate.

Nick

Nick,

Thanks for checking this out for me! I was relying more on the 5900M's OSD to tell me what the sample rate was on the Hotel California DVD-A than my pre/pro (Theta Casablanca 2). For some reason when playing back 96K or 192K DVD-A tracks in analog bypass mode, my processor always reports the sample rate as being 48K. Sounds like your MC-12B is behaving the same way. In any event, the 5900M's OSD indicates the Hotel California DVD-A 5.1 track is 24/96 and the 2 channel track is 24/192. Do you hear a crackling sound when playing back the 2 channel track in analog bypass mode on your MC-12B? It sounds identical to the problem we experienced previously on 24/96 audio-only DVD's. I'll follow-up with Theta as to why the pre/pro would report a 48K sample rate when presented with a 96K or 192K analog signal. I do have PCM downconversion set to "OFF" in the 5900M's setup menu. However, I thought PCM downconversion only applied to the digital output, not analog. I'm confused about this sample rate issue and will investigate further. However, my main question now is whether you hear the crackling sound on the 2 channel track on Hotel California. I've experienced this on 2 separate copies of the disc, and am curious if this is a 5900M problem or soemthing else.

BTW, I extensively borrowed from your excellent 5900M/Entre ProntoPro layout you posted at remotecentral.com. I'm in the process of setting up a Marantz RC-9200 and your ideas on the Sovereign system made it much easier for me to come up with a workable layout. Thanks for your efforts on this, and the DVD-A issue above!

Tom
Tom Blake is offline  
post #563 of 6894 Old 06-03-2002, 04:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nick Satullo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: highland hts., ohio, USA
Posts: 3,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Glad I could help, Tom. But as I recall, I did get a 24/96 "report" flashing from my Lexicon on the 24/96 discs, but it just kept cutting out . . . not crackling.

By the way, I assume you've got audio menu set in the Kenwood to "off" for downconversion?

I'll be interested in your findings. By the way, I've significantly revamped my Sovereign scheme (well . . . maybe not significantly). Problem is that to use the two requires a constant shifting of remotes, and that's what I'm trying to address.

Let me know if you find anything else out. I've resigned myself that the DV-5900 is just plain defective in design when it comes to 24/96 discs, but it's not something I care about terribly much. I'm interested in what else you discover.

Nick
Nick Satullo is offline  
post #564 of 6894 Old 06-03-2002, 09:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Tom Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Benicia, CA , U.S.A.
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Nicholas
Glad I could help, Tom. But as I recall, I did get a 24/96 "report" flashing from my Lexicon on the 24/96 discs, but it just kept cutting out . . . not crackling.

By the way, I assume you've got audio menu set in the Kenwood to "off" for downconversion?

I'll be interested in your findings. By the way, I've significantly revamped my Sovereign scheme (well . . . maybe not significantly). Problem is that to use the two requires a constant shifting of remotes, and that's what I'm trying to address.

Let me know if you find anything else out. I've resigned myself that the DV-5900 is just plain defective in design when it comes to 24/96 discs, but it's not something I care about terribly much. I'm interested in what else you discover.

Nick

Nick,

I definitely have PCM downconversion set to "OFF" in the 5900M's setup menu. I think the difference here is analog vs. digital signal input to our pre/pros. When we were trying the 24/96 audio-only DVD's we were passing the 96K digital signal from the 5900M to be decoded by our pre/pro's DACs (at least that's what I was doing). Thus, it would make sense that the pre-pro would detect a 96K sample rate. I believe our conclusion here was that the 5900M was not capable of cleanly outputting the 24/96 digital signal.

With the DVD-A's, however, we're passing an analog signal to the pre/pro decoded by the 5900M's DAC's. I am playing the DVD-A in analog bypass mode on my pre/pro. I would imagine the pre/pro is not capable of detecting the original sample rate within an already decoded analog signal, and reports it at a default value of 48K. I have written my contact at Theta to confirm, and will let you know what their reponse is. He is very knowledgeable and I'm sure will know the answer. If that's the case, you'll have to rely on the 5900M's OSD to report the sample rate for the soundtrack you're listening to. BTW I tried the 24/192 2 channel track on Hotel California again last night and it played without crackling! Maybe it's a connection issue on my end, or an intermittent problem with how the 5900M reads the disc. Have never had a problem with analog decoding of 24/96 material by the 5900M. I'll investigate further.

I'd be interested in seeing your new Sovereign setup for the ProntoPro. I'd be happy to e-mail you mine as well. I tweaked it quite a bit from what you had and enlarged it to take advantage of the bigger display area and more hard keys on the RC-9200. I'll contact you via PM.

Thanks again!

Tom
Tom Blake is offline  
post #565 of 6894 Old 06-03-2002, 10:37 AM
Senior Member
 
hmatos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Alpharetta, GA USA
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
MediaStorm,

I also reported a similar issue with the, "disc flip, this disc is unreadable and cannot be played in this player" -- at least I think that's what it says. You'd think I'd have the message memorized, considering how often it happens. I've also started using my HTPC to playback a DVD when my unit decides to wig out. It's nothing that can be reproduced, unless I ask the Entre to perform a scan on all discs -- then I'll have anywhere between 5 and 20 discs that it will not read.

I have never had a lockup while playing any disc -- I did have several while trying to use the NetNamer software, which I quickly deleted from my PC.

I have also experienced the issue where a disc will play great one time and then absolutely refuse to play a second time (Star Trek, TNG). It is not consistent -- the disc worked fine the last time I tried to use it.

I've given up on getting any kind of Kenwood support, they were never able to solve any issue I brought before them. I either figured it out on my own with the help of posts in this forum, restored the unit (Entre & 5900) to factory defaults, or just gave up!

The last time I emailed Kenwood about duplicate entries in my Entre Music and Movie guides -- here's a quote from the email response:

"As far as troubleshooting, you are of the evrything we would suggest, and if this is not fixing it, seem this is another bug. If you have posted this on AVS forum, OpenGlobe will have seen it, and they may try to work on a fix for the next software update."

Since Kenwood is not acknowledging the issue with, "disc is unreadable" -- I don't hold out much hope for a fix. Once again, I've just given up. I'm waiting for the next great DVD player from another manufacturer. I would gladly take the unit in to where I bought it if there were a known fix to the problem.

Heroildo
hmatos is offline  
post #566 of 6894 Old 06-03-2002, 11:36 AM
Newbie
 
ejwheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Gentlemen,
Thanks for giving us this great forum which has provided me with great insite. I've been reading this particular thread since it's inception, but never posted before. That said, I'm finally sounding off.

I've just had my first serious 5900m failure. The front panel buttons have stopped working. The only two that work are the "Open Door" and the scroll knob. All others don't respond any longer. Don't know what happened. Static or power hit. The unit is fully functional using my Pronto remote, but I'll eventually have to send the unit back to Crutchfield for a Repair. However, I'm trying to wait until a Kenwood releases a Firmware update and do it all at once.

I do have a few other issues which others have complained about as well.

1. My unit also makes the Vibration type noise when reading or playing the beginning of a DVD. I did read of the glueing of felt in the housing fix. Will look into this.
2. My unit also, every now and then gives and unreadable disc error when trying to play clean or brand new DVD's. Selecting another disc then replaying the original disc seems to work so far. Probably happened 4 times since I purchased my unit last November.
3. also my unit does suffer from rather long layer changes. Long enough that it takes your mind off the movie, and just when you think the unit might have frozen, it starts the next layer.

Have never had a problem with CD-R or CD-RW or MP3 disc's. And I have a lot of them.

The unit is the first DVD player I've ever owned. It's great, I love the capacity and the picture quality, but I do share, some of the "Finger crossing" when we have company over.
ejwheels is offline  
post #567 of 6894 Old 06-03-2002, 05:23 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Benicia, CA , U.S.A.
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Nick,

Heard back from Theta, and it seems my theory was correct. At least on the Casablanca and Casa Nova, the sample rate displayed by the pre/pro is for digital inputs only. When an analog signal is input, it displays the default sample rate of 48K. This value has no meaning for analog signals, however. This makes sense, as how could the pre/pro know what the original sample rate was for a digital signal that's already been converted to analog in the player. I'm fairly sure your Lex behaves the same way. The OSD on the 5900M seems accurate in reporting the signal content of DVD-A tracks. Since the high rez signals on DVD-A (and SACD) can only be output from the player in analog form, the player's OSD is the only way to determine channel format, sample rate, etc.

I take it when you tried the stereo soundtrack on Hotel California DVD-A it played normally for you?

Tom
Tom Blake is offline  
post #568 of 6894 Old 06-07-2002, 02:40 PM
Member
 
AnthonyS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just to let you know regarding sample rates. My MC-12B does not show a sample rate with analog signals. If the unit is showing a sample rate then it must be using a digital input.
AnthonyS is offline  
post #569 of 6894 Old 06-07-2002, 06:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nick Satullo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: highland hts., ohio, USA
Posts: 3,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You're right, Anthony. It is a digital signal.

However, I checked on Tom's particular problem, i.e., whether there was "crackling" (or some distortion) from the analog outputs of the Hotel California disc, and there was not--not from my player or processor.

Tom, as I said in my email, you're probably right that it's the cables or the player. I'm betting on the cables.

Nick
Nick Satullo is offline  
post #570 of 6894 Old 06-08-2002, 06:39 AM
Senior Member
 
zinja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Miami, Florida, USA
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I recently purchased 2 5900m's and the entre. I was told by the Kenwood representative that a hardware fix to enable the daisey chaining with the entre would be released this summer. I purchased these units only for DVD movies.

I have also noticed several problems:

1. DVD units are very very sensitive to dirt on the DVD's.
2. Vibration noise at the very beginning of play (noise is noticeably louder on one dvd player.
3. Random notice that DVD cannot be read. But when I place it in the other 5900m it read it, go figure.
4. Entre locks up and has to be rebooted.
5. Entre (or openglobe) cannot find the or identify about 25% of my 600 DVD collection. I have tried the work around of manually typing in title, still will not id the disk.

thanks for this forum, it has answered a number of questions that I thought were defects, but were just manufacturer design problems.

Even with these problems, I see great promise in this setup, wish it didn't cost so much.

I tried the Sony mega changers, but no daisey chain ability
I tried the Pioneer mega changers, but 4 out of 5 broke (ejection from the playing mechanism back into the carausal (sic) kept breaking) and the playback was very soft on all the players (video was not that great).
zinja is offline  
Reply DVD Players (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off