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post #91 of 106 Old 03-12-2008, 01:04 PM
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"Batman Forever was realised on Dolby AC-3 NTSC laserdisc"
I'll provide a potential defense here ...

From dictionary.com -
Realised
"successfully completed or brought to an end"

Acceptable? You know how incomprehensible each side of the Atlantic can be, right?

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- Hunter
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post #92 of 106 Old 03-12-2008, 02:01 PM
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I still dont see how a dts decoder in a car helps anyone.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #93 of 106 Old 03-12-2008, 02:35 PM
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I'm having to dig through my magazines - which are scattered! The first reference I found for you is in regards to DTS being transparent. Volume 4 No2, Issue #13 page 18, first column, middle paragraph - "...CAC allows six channels of transparent quality 20-bit audio to be recorded on a standard CD...
also same Issue 13, Page 24, 3rd column, 2nd paragraph - Gary's answer to a writer if he still supports DTS. "...this system has demonstrated itself to be transparent when operating at a high bitrate compared to the low bitrate Dolby AC-3 system..." (Italics mine)

Then from Volume 7, Number 3, issue 29 page 40 from Reber: "The DTS Coherent Acoustics codec is a high bitrate coding scheme that operates lossless (no data loss) when it can and lossy otherwise at a very low 3:1 compressed data reduced ratio."

There's an issue of The Absolute Sound/The Perfect Vision - I think it's a combined issue - I have it around here somewhere - it has interviews with Mike Smyth of DTS, Roger Dressler of Dolby, Tom Jung, etc... and Mike Smyth says that if anyone claims they can hear a difference between DTS at 1.2mbp/s, they are lying - and says they should put money on a bet because he doesn't believe a word of it - the system is 100% audibly transparent.

My problem with Reber constantly mentioning the 'severely low-bitrate compressed' AC-3 was that he never seemed to understand that the two systems were SOOOOOO very different that bitrates mattered little to the final sound quality. He saw "high bitrate" got lots of free stuff (I know because I worked for DTS in the mid 1990's) and they were his favored in print.

Oh, and the article wasn't talking about effective CD Redbook resolution - it was mentioning specifically DVD players and their resolution due to supposed 'jitter' when playing 20-bit LPCM encoded DVD titles, etc... it was utter nonsense. Heck, I had access to some test equipment myself at that time and both a cheap DVD player and a combi LD/DVD player had no jitter that would compromise a signal when DA converted. Properly dithered CD test-tones played via the Pioneer's (DVL-700) early 20-bit DA's had clear 16-bit performance. Again, it was a manufacturers article written to sell their "jitter-busting' device - and it gave simply incorrect information - like WSR is doing now with Monster Cable all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post

Thanks, Disclord. Time and effort (instead of silence) appreciated.

"The constant bias against Dolby AC-3 took the form of little 'digs' at it such as constantly 'reminding' readers that AC-3 was a severely compressed, low-bitrate system - Reber couldn't barely let a mention of AC-3 go by without throwing in a snipe at the bitrate."
Well, to me this sounds like fact, rather than unfair and slanted bias. Back then AC-3 was the most compressed consumer audio format. And back then the possibility of even worse audio quality with DVD was a real and serious concern.
You will possibly remember a well-known Dolby representative affirming back then that the DD process did in fact result in an audio quality audibly different from the original. But he said that it was good enough for normal consumer use. A lot of people were not happy with that goal - they wanted better. "Digs" and "constant reminding" were perceived as the only available pressure.
Many people would say that the complaints of WSR and TPV were in part responsible for the focus and eventual improvements in both DD and DTS.

"While at the same time stating obviously incorrect information about DTS that it operated in a lossless-mode most of the time and lossy only when it needed to."
I don't EVER remember this. So I spent almost two hours last night going through my back issues - and had no success finding it. I would like a reference, if only for my own education.

"Go back and read early issues about DTS - DTS is claimed at the 1.2kbps CD/LD rate and the 1.5k DVD rate, by both DTS and Reber, et-all, to be an absolutely 100% transparent reproduction of the original lossless master..."
I did look, as earlier. I saw NOTHING indicating this.

"As if consumers should get excited about a demo."
Actually they did. And for a while the discs were highly collectible!

"While the AC-3 algorithm did undergo constant improvements, they were not 'groundbreaking' and Reber and his reviewers came to realise more and more that it was the original soundtrack and not the coding method that determined the quality delivered."
Although I do not remember this it may be somewhat accurate. But that doesn't mean WSR softened its position on the quality of DD.

"it was repeated in print over and over again, DTS Coherent Acoustics was 100% AUDIBLY transparent."
Please provide quote and context for this.

"The magazine had gotten the reputation as being Widescreen "dts" Review because of his constant boosting of the format - a boosting that was considerable enhanced by all the free decoders and softare he was given."
That does not mandate the conclusion that WSR was on the take from DTS. Dolby could have produced and provided the same. It did not. Dolby waged its PR campaign in other ways in other arenas.

Rather than batting the birdie back and forth over the net, here's the bottom line for me.
Since their beginning WSR and DTS have been subject to continuing "rumors," "claims," assaults, "facts," and so on. Upon closer examination most of them are simply partisan positioning. As someone who has read and reread every single issue of WSR, TPV, many DD and DTS papers, had conversations in person and over telephone with Dolby and DTS and WSR and TPV personnel, I know that this is derived from basic human competitiveness rather than actual, verifiable evidence. ( For instance - I used to spend weeks disproving the postings of HTF and AVS participants who were adamant that either or both WSR and DTS had already filed for bankruptcy, among other things. )

Without details I am sensitive to allegations like yours. If the evidence is there and produced then it speaks for itself. But if it is not there the allegations are simply opinions. That is fine, but it is not factual.

Okay - to the meat:

"My partner moved some of my magazines, so I'll have to find the exact issue, but WSR ran an article that supposedly 'proved' that DVD only had around 12-bits of resolution."
Actually, that understanding as to the actual effective resolution of "Red Book" CD performance has been around for a long time. It has been publicized from numerous sources including manufacturers. And it has led to the continuing improvements in CD design, technology, construction and audio quality.

BTW - you have my sympathies regarding your cat.
I am not being disengenuous - my boys and I have buried five pets in the past four years and it is disquieting. Best wishes.


Ty C. :-)
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post #94 of 106 Old 03-12-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post

Thanks, Disclord. Time and effort (instead of silence) appreciated.
BTW - you have my sympathies regarding your cat.
I am not being disengenuous - my boys and I have buried five pets in the past four years and it is disquieting. Best wishes.

I truly thank you for that - and hope you'll forgive me if I seem 'sharp' in my replies - I don't mean to - Having to euthanize my cat Lady Bird last night was horriffically difficult to me - Today I've been in a haze... I actually don't even remember leaving the vet's office last night - yet my partner Tony tells me I drove us both home, set up the coffee for morning, folded some laundry for a few minutes and then went to bed... my only memory of last night is standing next to Lady Bird after the injection, saying 'goodbye' to her and then waking up in bed this morning. Weird, huh?

I tried to post a little pic of her in my sig, but it wouldn't let me - here she is from about a year ago:

Ty C. :-)
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post #95 of 106 Old 03-12-2008, 06:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post

"Batman Forever was realised on Dolby AC-3 NTSC laserdisc"
I'll provide a potential defense here ...

From dictionary.com -
Realised
"successfully completed or brought to an end"

Acceptable? You know how incomprehensible each side of the Atlantic can be, right?

Hunter:
With ALL due respect:
Stick to your day job whatever it is. It is evident that lawyering is NOT your forté. There is a huge difference between release(intended VERB) and your poetic version. WHY did you mix apples and oranges?
Thank you
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post #96 of 106 Old 03-13-2008, 05:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrico View Post

Prince Charles says that Americans butcher the English language. It looks like some Brits can NOT spell a simple word like release, UHM?

Realise, release, I’ll spell it how I chose and Prince Charles can sod off. Rumour control has it that he criticized the THX laser-light show at the Empire so again he can, flipping well sod off.

As for the sodden magazines I still haven’t found that article, chances are it could be anywhere?
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post #97 of 106 Old 03-13-2008, 05:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrico View Post

Hunter:
With ALL due respect:
Stick to your day job whatever it is. It is evident that lawyering is NOT your forté. There is a huge difference between release(intended VERB) and your poetic version. WHY did you mix apples and oranges?
Thank you

Electrico

Is this knob Jockey personally busting are balls or am I getting paranoid. Hey leave Hunter alone!

Found this though Google video search. I fact I’m using lots and lots of different keywords to see if its out there, so far I’ve found a few vintage videos some run for 30 minutes. I’ll post the rest of a different thread.

My video system and junk
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...arch&plindex=1
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post #98 of 106 Old 03-13-2008, 06:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBLsound4645 View Post

Electrico

Is this knob Jockey personally busting are balls or am I getting paranoid. Hey leave Hunter alone!

Found this though Google video search. I fact I'm using lots and lots of different keywords to see if its out there, so far I've found a few vintage videos some run for 30 minutes. I'll post the rest of a different thread.

My video system and junk
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...arch&plindex=1

Hunter is wrong just like you are, period.
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post #99 of 106 Old 03-13-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:


forgive me if I seem 'sharp' in my replies - I don't mean to

Disclord - there is nothing to forgive. The debate has been civil and constructive from your posts. I hope mine have come across in the same way.
I understand the concern - once into these discussions, there is a fear that they will come unhinged into personal attacks. I don't perceive anything close to that here.
FWIW - I welcome anything else you care to set out at any time. For my part I would consider myself finished.

As to your cat - nice picture. Our pets have always been smaller and less popular. (They actually would have been seen as prey by Lady Bird.) But we still have losses.
Again - best fortune.

------------------------------------
As to the apparent brittleness of Electrico -
Quote:


Hunter:
With ALL due respect:
Stick to your day job whatever it is. It is evident that lawyering is NOT your forté.

There are hundreds that would disagree, for good reason.
Here is my professional letter and email signature -
Hunter L. Martin, III
General Counsel
********* Industries, Inc.
*********************
Houston, TX 77007-8230
You are welcome to call 713-802-2060 to verify.

It would appear that - respectfully - the mistake is yours.
Quote:


WHY did you mix apples and oranges?

Humor, as practiced successfully with our UK and Scot employees and subcontractors.
Quote:


Hunter is wrong just like you are, period.

Don't call him "period."
Humor - see how it works?

We can debate its effectiveness. Please see history of my posts, infra.
Quote:


Thank you

The pleasure is all mine.

Regards,

- Hunter
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post #100 of 106 Old 07-06-2008, 05:40 AM
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Great post 'Disclord' regarding WSR. I've purchased a lot of back issues in the past of WSR and did find it a bit odd at the time that they bashed AC3 down to its bit rates. I must admit that most the DTS LDs i have do sound better than its AC3 counterpart but i disagreed with their Mortal Kombat LD review saying the DTS track was preferred. The AC3 was far more aggressive and louder compared to the DTS track which i found sounded to quiet so i ended up having to cranking up the volume to get the best out of it and besides you need a aggressive loud soundtrack for a film like Mortal Kombat so the AC3 track easily wins.

Its a shame that lot of the amazing DTS soundtracks on LD were to average films, i found a lot of the films in the mid 90s which were transfered to LD were average at best, its just a shame it didn't last longer.
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post #101 of 106 Old 07-07-2008, 01:21 PM
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So, now that Dark City is arriving shortly on Blu-Ray, will the uncompressed PCM soundtrack outperform the DTS Laserdisc? What other DTS laserdiscs have made the jump to Blu-Ray? Will I be able to selectively upgrade my DTS laserdiscs to Blu-Ray when Oppo gets around to a decent DVD/Blu-Ray/SACD player? I have about a dozen or so DTS laserdiscs. Some of the standouts were Boogie Nights, From Dusk Till Dawn, Mimic and The Frighteners.

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post #102 of 106 Old 02-17-2013, 05:16 PM
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i always wanted dts laserdiscs, this year i will get some, and the titles will be.....

The Shadow
Casper
Apollo 13
Babe
Mortal Kombat
The Mask
Goldeneye
Toy Story--maybe
The Nutty Professor--maybe
The Crow
Street Fighter
Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery
Mortal Kombat: Annihilation
Tomorrow Never Dies
Speed

True Lies--maybe
Independence Day
Die Hard 3: With a Vengeance
and Rush Hour.
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post #103 of 106 Old 09-21-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olly H View Post

Great post 'Disclord' regarding WSR. I've purchased a lot of back issues in the past of WSR and did find it a bit odd at the time that they bashed AC3 down to its bit rates. I must admit that most the DTS LDs i have do sound better than its AC3 counterpart but i disagreed with their Mortal Kombat LD review saying the DTS track was preferred. The AC3 was far more aggressive and louder compared to the DTS track which i found sounded to quiet so i ended up having to cranking up the volume to get the best out of it and besides you need a aggressive loud soundtrack for a film like Mortal Kombat so the AC3 track easily wins.


Its a shame that lot of the amazing DTS soundtracks on LD were to average films, i found a lot of the films in the mid 90s which were transfered to LD were average at best, its just a shame it didn't last longer.
The DD version version of Mortal Kombat sounds much better.

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post #104 of 106 Old 10-30-2013, 07:33 PM
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i just recently got into laserdiscs, i love the sound....
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post #105 of 106 Old 11-02-2013, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herb_vogel View Post

i just recently got into laserdiscs, i love the sound....
You know they stop making those right?

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post #106 of 106 Old 11-18-2013, 03:55 PM
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the shadow arrived, but the avr was a SCAM off craigslist. never arrived.
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