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post #5611 of 6628 Old 06-08-2014, 08:46 PM
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What 4k streaming boxes are even out?

BTW the Roku 3 streamed everything else fine. I will be using the Roku 3 more in the summer months because of its great headphone jack as with the noisy AC I can barely hear my soundbar when there is dialogue but then action scenes are loud. With the Shure earbuds I can't even hear the loud AC.

Also I check the Netflix Stream Quality page everyday to see if I can turn off Super HD.

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post #5612 of 6628 Old 06-08-2014, 10:23 PM
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The only 4K streaming boxes other than Sony's 4K boxes (which only works with Sony's 4K televisions) are tje Nuvola 4K streamers, but I'm not sure if they're actually available. All of this year's announced 4K televisions have HEVC decoding and 4K Netflix players as one of their built-in "smart TV" apps; that's what I'm talking about.

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post #5613 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Netflix stupid adaptive streaming annoyed me tonight. It was the same issues I had in December till February. I can't believe on the ATV3 that around the 18 minute mark Once Upon A Time had the nerve to drop down to crappy SD then only ramp up only to 720p HD and you talk about 4K. Of course I was connected at the time to the POS Netflix Streaming Service routed though Level 3 in Newark. Really what is the freaking point of having eyeIO HD encodes when the streams drop down to the POS VC-1 SD streams. Just get rid of all SD streams for HD content and ditch there adaptive crap. I rather wait for a program to download with a big buffer then have it stupidly lower the quality of the stream. It ist bad because of that Prison series even though I watch programs not even remotely related how can it put stress on them. Don't they put there Originals on there own freaking server.

BTW Episode of Doctor Who S2E5 was only in SD on Amazon.

I had issues last night when watching a couple of episodes of Orange is the New Black,. Instead of ramping up to SuperHD in under 40seconds like earlier this weekend, it was taking two to three minutes to get there. And then it would drop down to the lower 1080P encode and sometimes even go down to 720P. But I guess at least it was staying in HD here and not going down to SD like it did with you.

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post #5614 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 05:55 AM
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The thing that annoyed me was that I was not even watching that show. I was watching Murder She Wrote and Once Upon A Time which is less popular so I don't understand how it could have been affected. This was all on the ATV3 which was flawless for months. Also Friday and Saturday nights which are also busy I had no issues either.

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post #5615 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I had issues last night when watching a couple of episodes of Orange is the New Black,. Instead of ramping up to SuperHD in under 40seconds like earlier this weekend, it was taking two to three minutes to get there. And then it would drop down to the lower 1080P encode and sometimes even go down to 720P. But I guess at least it was staying in HD here and not going down to SD like it did with you.

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post #5616 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I had issues last night when watching a couple of episodes of Orange is the New Black,. Instead of ramping up to SuperHD in under 40seconds like earlier this weekend, it was taking two to three minutes to get there. And then it would drop down to the lower 1080P encode and sometimes even go down to 720P. But I guess at least it was staying in HD here and not going down to SD like it did with you.

I'm about halfway thru OITNB .. I've had a few instances of video freeze, yet audio continues, then video starts back up and audio is still in sync .. lasting a few seconds at most ..

I chalked it up to new season, getting heavy traffic from folks that are doing binge watches ..

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post #5617 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 09:50 AM
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I will never binge anything original so why does it affect programs that I watch that are way less popular?
If it is like this tonight I will stick with Amazon Instant on my Fire TV.

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post #5618 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I'm about halfway thru OITNB .. I've had a few instances of video freeze, yet audio continues, then video starts back up and audio is still in sync .. lasting a few seconds at most ..

I chalked it up to new season, getting heavy traffic from folks that are doing binge watches ..

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I watched the first 5 episodes of OITNB Saturday night(only planned to watch 2 eek.gif ) and every time it hit SHD in under 30 secs(often started at SHD) and stayed throughout.

Comcast / 50Mbps down / SF bay area
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post #5619 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I watched the first 5 episodes of OITNB Saturday night(only planned to watch 2 eek.gif ) and every time it hit SHD in under 30 secs(often started at SHD) and stayed throughout.

Comcast / 50Mbps down / SF bay area

Yeah, other than the few hiccups I mentioned, I had a solid SHD feed .. the weird part about my feed was the video freeze yet the audio continued (seconds) .. it was almost like a rebuffer on the video only .. I've never seen that before ..

On the flip side, it's turning out to be a very, very good season .. and based on your post, I'd guess you agree .. wink.gif

There were a few spots that I just busted out laughing .. smile.gif

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post #5620 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Yeah, other than the few hiccups I mentioned, I had a solid SHD feed .. the weird part about my feed was the video freeze yet the audio continued (seconds) .. it was almost like a rebuffer on the video only .. I've never seen that before ..

On the flip side, it's turning out to be a very, very good season .. and based on your post, I'd guess you agree .. wink.gif

There were a few spots that I just busted out laughing .. smile.gif
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post #5621 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I'm about halfway thru OITNB .. I've had a few instances of video freeze, yet audio continues, then video starts back up and audio is still in sync .. lasting a few seconds at most ..

I chalked it up to new season, getting heavy traffic from folks that are doing binge watches ..

Charter / 60Mbps down .. PS3 ..
I'm not much into "mob viewing" and am not that interested in Orange season 2 (only watched a few of season one). However I had no problems with "Derek" season 2 episode 3 in SuperHD. Last year (before Chromecast) it was hard to a get 240p episode of Derek without rebuffering. Of course I see the trailer for season 2 of "Hemlock Grove" is up today. wink.gif
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post #5622 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 12:52 PM
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I can't use the Chromecast because it only has 2.4ghz. I tried it but with so many networks in my area over 70 not counting stupid baby and security camera monitors I had to keep changing my WiFi channel. One day channel 6 was fine then a few hours later it would slow down so I would change it to 11 which might be fine for a week then that slows down repeat over again. This is why I stream everything on 5ghz or Ethernet.

I hope Google announces a new dual band Chromecast later this month.

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post #5623 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 04:07 PM
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Just LIL.

It's been interesting to read the fighting between Netflix and Verizon lately. Netflix in April "reluctantly" agreed to pay Verizon fees for direct connections at Verizon's edge. I'd have to say, as a Verizon customer, Netflix hasn't got its money's worth. Streaming quality continues to vary by time of day, from terrific in the AM and up to about 2PM, then degrading from there into prime time and late evening. (I retired the first of this year so am in a position to track this somewhat.)

I've read published reports of tests purporting to show that there doesn't seem to be any Verizon traffic shaping going on. This seems to agree with my own homespun testing: I can jack in a laptop at the switch that supports my Samsung TV/Home theater and Speedtest.net gives me the numbers I expect -- no more than 5ms latency and 55Mbs sustained download speed -- whether Netflix is delivering ultraHD or crappy SD quality.

When I phoned Netflix tech support one evening and suggested that perhaps the issue is their limited server capacity, the Netflix tech replied -- and this is a direct quote, non-sequitur though it may be -- "we use Amazon's servers." Wow.

I don't think he appreciated at all the irony in that statement, especially after I explained that I could stream the identical content from Amazon Instant Video in full HD with no down-rezzing at the same time of day that Netflix was either incapable of loading an HD stream or, if it did start at HD, I could depend on it down-rezzing to SD within a couple minutes. It never occurred to the guy that perhaps it's Amazon that might be prioritizing its own traffic during peak loads? Assuming, of course, that he wasn't just shining me on...

And today Netflix has had to pull its accusatory pop-ups directed at Verizon.

I dunno, maybe it IS time to have the Feds investigate the whole bunch of 'em.
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post #5624 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Until we get HEVC capable devices there's not going to be much difference between 4K and the older 1080p encodes (though I suppose that if they start from a 4K source there is some potential for improvement). I'm in the market for a new television and I've been holding out for a Vizio P-Series, a 4K set with HEVC decoding and 4K capable Netflix at a price that I can afford ($1400 for the 55"). But I don't care so much about 4K as I do about Netflix encoding their library in HEVC, at a 40%-50% bandwidth savings.

I agree 1080p Netflix in HEVC and the attendant reduction in bandwidth would be cool providing there is no loss in picture quality .

I wonder what's going on with the devil (ATT) and Netflix as far as direct connect is going?

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post #5625 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 08:55 PM
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Just LIL.

It's been interesting to read the fighting between Netflix and Verizon lately. Netflix in April "reluctantly" agreed to pay Verizon fees for direct connections at Verizon's edge. I'd have to say, as a Verizon customer, Netflix hasn't got its money's worth. Streaming quality continues to vary by time of day, from terrific in the AM and up to about 2PM, then degrading from there into prime time and late evening. (I retired the first of this year so am in a position to track this somewhat.)

I've read published reports of tests purporting to show that there doesn't seem to be any Verizon traffic shaping going on. This seems to agree with my own homespun testing: I can jack in a laptop at the switch that supports my Samsung TV/Home theater and Speedtest.net gives me the numbers I expect -- no more than 5ms latency and 55Mbs sustained download speed -- whether Netflix is delivering ultraHD or crappy SD quality.

When I phoned Netflix tech support one evening and suggested that perhaps the issue is their limited server capacity, the Netflix tech replied -- and this is a direct quote, non-sequitur though it may be -- "we use Amazon's servers." Wow.

I don't think he appreciated at all the irony in that statement, especially after I explained that I could stream the identical content from Amazon Instant Video in full HD with no down-rezzing at the same time of day that Netflix was either incapable of loading an HD stream or, if it did start at HD, I could depend on it down-rezzing to SD within a couple minutes. It never occurred to the guy that perhaps it's Amazon that might be prioritizing its own traffic during peak loads? Assuming, of course, that he wasn't just shining me on...

And today Netflix has had to pull its accusatory pop-ups directed at Verizon.

I dunno, maybe it IS time to have the Feds investigate the whole bunch of 'em.

However, you also have to take into account that with Open Connect these issues never exist. I can stream Super HD 24/7 with out a hitch because I have Cablevision. Regardless of who's doing the finger pointing, the ISP or Netflix, the quality of service should be the same for everyone.


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post #5626 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 09:14 PM
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The Netflix ISP Speed Index for May is up. It's obvious that direct connect to FiOS is a work in progress; they actually slipped a bit.

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post #5627 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 10:49 PM
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Interesting. Super HD is still a pipe dream during peak times on my Comcast business account with 15mbps down -- which drops to 2 or 3mbps on a regular basis.

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post #5628 of 6628 Old 06-09-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The Netflix ISP Speed Index for May is up. It's obvious that direct connect to FiOS is a work in progress; they actually slipped a bit.
In the case of my ISP Comcast, the slip was just under 2%, an amount that would seem to be close to meaningless. It appears as if a few other ISP got faster though, rather than Comcast getting slower.
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post #5629 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 12:20 AM
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In the case of my ISP Comcast, the slip was just under 2%, an amount that would seem to be close to meaningless. It appears as if a few other ISP got faster though, rather than Comcast getting slower.

That was my thought as well. The Comcast average goes from 2.77 to 2.72 Mbps (if you look at last month Comcast - Suddenink - Charter were pretty much in a dead heat clustered at # 3 - 5 with 2.77 - 2.75 Mbps - with who knows what margin of error?)

Yet Netflix writes 'Comcast dipped two spots as well'.

I would actually expect better analysis from Netflix who really should understand stats.

It discredits meaningful analysis of the raw data - hopefully we'll get more STEM Teachers and better informed consumers (and press/analysts/bloggers)
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post #5630 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 07:43 AM
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However, you also have to take into account that with Open Connect these issues never exist. I can stream Super HD 24/7 with out a hitch because I have Cablevision. Regardless of who's doing the finger pointing, the ISP or Netflix, the quality of service should be the same for everyone.


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If I only lived a few miles down lower Brooklyn I would have no problems either but no I am stuck with Crime Warner. I tried the ATV3 last night and during Clone Wars it dropped down to SD but did ramp back up again after a minute. Before this Orange is the New Crap show came back I had no issues at all. In matter of fact I was not even jealous of Cablevison users anymore but now I am again. However I am so glad I reconnected my Roku 3 last month because the FireTV Netflix app sucks so bad that the Roku 3 does maintain a Super HD picture. Of course saying this I will most likely get SD dropouts and I will be complaining hard on here again.

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post #5631 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 08:42 AM
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The Netflix ISP Speed Index for May is up. It's obvious that direct connect to FiOS is a work in progress; they actually slipped a bit.

Wow, Optimum continues to climb. It seems to me that as long as ISP's like Verizon have invested in streaming offerings that compete with Netflix, Open Connect partners like Cablevison will continue to make these claims:

Optimum ad:
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Online customers can get a higher-quality Netflix viewing experience than our competitors can provide. This Netflix connection delivers picture quality even better than standard HD. 3D TV owners can even watch 3D TV shows and movies.


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post #5632 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 08:46 AM
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And today Netflix has had to pull its accusatory pop-ups directed at Verizon.
Where did you see that? Netflix basically told Verizon to stick it, the plates would run until June 16th which was the original plan anyway. And that they may even expand the program.

I would love to see Verizon sue Netflix though as then we'll really see where the problem lies, at least between Verizon and Netflix anyway. But again, Verizon is simply not going to do that, and Netflix knows it.
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post #5633 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 08:48 AM
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What irritates me is that Optimum is in "parts of Brooklyn" and "the Bronx" yet the rest of Brooklyn, Manhattan and Queens is all Time Warner Territory. Hello isn't the Bronx part of NYC. Really makes no sense why they serve Optimum. Even crime ridden parts of Newark can get Optimum yet all the upper class citizens in Manhattan and Northern and Western Brooklyn are stuck with Time Warner. As I live in downtown Brooklyn and they really built up my neighborhood. Really sucks where you live.

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post #5634 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 08:51 AM
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Even crime ridden parts of Newark can get Optimum yet all the upper class citizens are stuck with Time Warner.

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post #5635 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 08:53 AM
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That was my thought as well. The Comcast average goes from 2.77 to 2.72 Mbps (if you look at last month Comcast - Suddenink - Charter were pretty much in a dead heat clustered at # 3 - 5 with 2.77 - 2.75 Mbps - with who knows what margin of error?)

Yet Netflix writes 'Comcast dipped two spots as well'.

I would actually expect better analysis from Netflix who really should understand stats.

It discredits meaningful analysis of the raw data - hopefully we'll get more STEM Teachers and better informed consumers (and press/analysts/bloggers)
Yes, while their comments do match the data, if they're trying to use the speed index as a tool to improve performance and garner good will with subscribers as to where the problem may be a bit more nuanced commentary would be in order.
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post #5636 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 08:53 AM
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Careful now, I was born in Newark! cool.gif


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Sorry I said parts of Newark. Still makes no sense why parts of the NYC metro can get Cablevison while others can only get Time Warner. All of Philadelphia is served by Comcast as other metro city's like Chicago.

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post #5637 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 09:06 AM
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Sorry I said parts of Newark. Still makes no sense why parts of the NYC metro can get Cablevison while others can only get Time Warner. All of Philadelphia is served by Comcast as other metro city's.

It makes no sense to me why these billion dollar companies can't work out a financial arrangement that would benefit everybody. In the long term it would be in the best interest of all parties involved to provide the best service possible from all content providers. If you want to offer alternatives, make them competitive.


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post #5638 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

It makes no sense to me why these billion dollar companies can't work out a financial arrangement that would benefit everybody. In the long term it would be in the best interest of all parties involved to provide the best service possible from all content providers. If you want to offer alternatives, make them competitive.


Ian
Because if you intentionally cripple a competitor's offering(such as Netflix) then you really don't have to do much to make your own video product any better as that's all your subscribers will have problem-free access to. If Verizon allows Netflix to flow unencumbered through their system then Verizon will have to step up its game to make their own product more attractive, and that usually costs money.
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post #5639 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The Netflix ISP Speed Index for May is up. It's obvious that direct connect to FiOS is a work in progress; they actually slipped a bit.

Ahh, good ole TWC just keeps cruising along. No gain, no pain. Actually my TWC/Roadrunner (15/1) has been flawless for months and months. No problems streaming Netflix HD 1080p (or anything else) with either my Roku 3 or ATV3.

Don't need Open Connect. Certainly don't need Netflix in 4K. Would need new projector, new receiver, new everything.

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post #5640 of 6628 Old 06-10-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Where did you see that? Netflix basically told Verizon to stick it, the plates would run until June 16th which was the original plan anyway. And that they may even expand the program.

I would love to see Verizon sue Netflix though as then we'll really see where the problem lies, at least between Verizon and Netflix anyway. But again, Verizon is simply not going to do that, and Netflix knows it.

Exactly - a court battle would shine a lot of light on this. Sounds like Netflix is up for it.

If they are sued they would have the opportunity to do pre-trial discovery basically requiring Verizon to give them access to the data they need to defend themselves. Wonder if Verizon wants to do that?

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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Yes, while their comments do match the data, if they're trying to use the speed index as a tool to improve performance and garner good will with subscribers as to where the problem may be a bit more nuanced commentary would be in order.

Yup - even the normally reliable Karl Bode wrote 'Comcast, FiOS Drop in Netflix Rankings Despite Deals' http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-FiOS-Drop-in-Netflix-Rankings-Despite-Deals-129261
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