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Old 08-04-2014, 09:18 PM
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Why do you keep trying, reddice? One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting different results. Dump your Netflix subscription until you hear that things have gotten better for TWC subs in your area.

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Old 08-04-2014, 09:38 PM
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Well I won't know if things have gotten better in my area as I don't follow social media. I guess there is not much press about this because I can achieve on TWC at least 720p up to 1080p. Verizon FiOS subs are getting sub 480p which is why there is more news about it.

The other thing is when problems start down right now shows green then after I report issues a few minutes later it turns yellow then red. Now it is playing fine and down right now is showing green again so I know it is not me. Also cancelling Netflix is the last thing I want to do as I have so many great things to watch on there. Amazon does have some programs I like but many I want to watch like Smallville are behind a paywall which stinks.

I am really going to try stop posting here when I get annoyed and maybe create a new topic where I can rant all I want per your instructions. Heck it is my Asperger syndrome that makes me do all of this.

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Old 08-05-2014, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Earlier Alias and Lost went to Super HD no problems. Now the 4400 won't go past 720p. I restarted it about 10 times changed DNS changed playback from auto to high back to auto this is all on the PS4.

Edit now it went up to super HD.
Yeah after 8 p.m it dropped down to 720p, but still much more acceptable than the 480p and lower that it usually drops down too.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
Yeah after 8 p.m it dropped down to 720p, but still much more acceptable than the 480p and lower that it usually drops down too.
I agree. Also Amazon 720p (don't know the bitrate but it must be higher) blows Netflix 3000 kbps 720p out of the water in quality. Still don't understand why Netflix can't at least maintain the 3850 kbps 1080p stream which I wish I can set it to only use.

Still with Netflix wanting to push 4K on non Open Connect ISP's which won't happen if they can't even maintain 720p. At least 4K players are very rare heck even the PS4 and Xbox One can't play Netflix in 4K I don't see it much as a problem in increasing congestion.

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Old 08-05-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by reddice View Post
I agree. Also Amazon 720p (don't know the bitrate but it must be higher) blows Netflix 3000 kbps 720p out of the water in quality.

I strongly disagree. Amazon's 720p is pretty good, but to my eyes Netflix 720p is at least as good (they're around the same bit rate). I just watched the entirety of the 3rd and final seasons of The Killing in Netflix 720p. It was quite good.

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Old 08-05-2014, 02:39 PM
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I strongly disagree. Amazon's 720p is pretty good, but to my eyes Netflix 720p is at least as good (they're around the same bit rate). I just watched the entirety of the 3rd and final seasons of The Killing in Netflix 720p. It was quite good.
Well all I know is try to watch Once Upon A Time in 720p which looks like total crap banding and bad macroblockage. If you watch it on Amazon which I won't because it is behind a paywall it would be night and day.

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Old 08-05-2014, 02:40 PM
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Also per your request I created a new post about all my problems which I will keep updated.
Netflix issues in the evening with Time Warner Cable.

I will still post here but I will try not to rant about streaming issues instead I will rant in my own new post.

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Old 08-05-2014, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Well all I know is try to watch Once Upon A Time in 720p which looks like total crap banding and bad macroblockage. If you watch it on Amazon which I won't because it is behind a paywall it would be night and day.
Hate to rub it in, but Mike has Open Connect, so of course it's going to look much better.


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Old 08-05-2014, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I strongly disagree. Amazon's 720p is pretty good, but to my eyes Netflix 720p is at least as good (they're around the same bit rate). I just watched the entirety of the 3rd and final seasons of The Killing in Netflix 720p. It was quite good.
You know it may vary by device.

I would agree when using a Roku 2 720P on Netflix or Amazon look pretty similar - I have couple of 720P TVs so the Rokus are set to 720P out.

However using a FireTV 1080P Amazon is definitely superior to Netflix 1080P SuperHD (on any platform).

I also think that some of the Amazon streams on a FireTV are probably 720P (with bit rate of around 6 - 7 Mbps vs the 10 Mbps for 1080P) and if these are truly 720P they do look better than Netflix 720P.

As you suggested before I do need to set the FireTV to output 720P sometime check video quality and bitrate....
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:01 PM
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Also on Netflix I have seen some great 480p content. Batman Beyond looks great just like on DVD which I own with no macroblockage.

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Old 08-05-2014, 06:56 PM
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I've been primarily watching old-but-not-very-old television recently, like Star Trek Voyager--PQ is decent. (It'd be nice if Netflix'd upgrade STNG to the recent BD transfer HD video).

In the past, I've measured Amazon's 720p at <3000 Kbps, but it's been a few years; they might have increased that. I know that their 1080p is a ridiculous 10 Mbps (who do they think they are, VUDU ?). Here's a 3 y/o graph of 10 encoder-challenging minutes of Ong Bak 2 (martial arts combat in the rain):

Spoiler!
~2700 Kbps average including audio and anything in the buffer.

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Old 08-05-2014, 08:19 PM
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See that chart Michael I can achieve that during the day but after 9 PM on Netflix all I can get is 720p with a straight fluctuating up and down horizontal line across. Amazon always comes in as bursts at least on my Fire TV.

I would have hope Netflix would have came our with a streaming box but they would have botched it up with the new crappy modern ui and no precache optimization in other words it would have performed the same under congestion.

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Old 08-05-2014, 09:20 PM
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I just relized something. Looking at my bandwidth meter since June when the problems started again I noticed after 9 PM that I was not using as much bandwidth as earlier streaming HD on Netflix. All those programs I watched like the 4400 and Clone Wars when using the ATV3 and Roku 3 most likely was playing in 720p with some bursts of 1080p. I just notice it more now since I got the PS4 because when you press the options menu it shows the bit-rate indicator.

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Old 08-05-2014, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post
You know it may vary by device.
I also think that some of the Amazon streams on a FireTV are probably 720P (with bit rate of around 6 - 7 Mbps vs the 10 Mbps for 1080P) and if these are truly 720P they do look better than Netflix 720P.

As you suggested before I do need to set the FireTV to output 720P sometime check video quality and bitrate....
Does Amazon have anything similar to a example short that shows you the bitrate like Netflix does?

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Old 08-06-2014, 11:57 AM
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I agree. Also Amazon 720p (don't know the bitrate but it must be higher) blows Netflix 3000 kbps 720p out of the water in quality. Still don't understand why Netflix can't at least maintain the 3850 kbps 1080p stream which I wish I can set it to only use.

Still with Netflix wanting to push 4K on non Open Connect ISP's which won't happen if they can't even maintain 720p. At least 4K players are very rare heck even the PS4 and Xbox One can't play Netflix in 4K I don't see it much as a problem in increasing congestion.
I do wonder though if a HEVC encoded 4k file will be as efficient (lower bitrate) than an H.264 encoded 1080p file. With the efficiency of HEVC I think that it will not make much of a difference... I recently encoded a movie to HEVC and it was about 1/4 the bitrate as x264 encoding make it incredibly more efficient. I only tested it using on movie file so I'll have to wait and see if it increases efficiency across the board on other files.

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Old 08-06-2014, 12:26 PM
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Does Amazon have anything similar to a example short that shows you the bitrate like Netflix does?
On my ancient BD player it shows the connect speed and then the bitrate plus how much of the buffer is full at the moment. A series on Amazon in excellent quality may show the buffer filled at least a half minute's worth on play.

Let's remember we are talking about moving targets regarding the technology. All companies are going to go for improved PQ plus try to do that at reduced bitrates. Thing is many of us pay for broadband speeds way beyond what is required for top quality which tells us indeed the gangsters running the ISPs were indeed messing things up.

This is an inverse method of doing away with net neutrality by making the content providers pay rather than the consumer. And it is very dirty and needs a congressional investigation.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:00 PM
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Let's remember we are talking about moving targets regarding the technology. All companies are going to go for improved PQ plus try to do that at reduced bitrates. Thing is many of us pay for broadband speeds way beyond what is required for top quality which tells us indeed the gangsters running the ISPs were indeed messing things up.

This is an inverse method of doing away with net neutrality by making the content providers pay rather than the consumer. And it is very dirty and needs a congressional investigation.

Or as I like to say, the extortionists .. and the upshot is possible price increases from the content providers to the consumer .. I doubt if we'll ever actually see an investigation, but you're right ..

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Old 08-06-2014, 02:07 PM
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I do wonder though if a HEVC encoded 4k file will be as efficient (lower bitrate) than an H.264 encoded 1080p file. With the efficiency of HEVC I think that it will not make much of a difference... I recently encoded a movie to HEVC and it was about 1/4 the bitrate as x264 encoding make it incredibly more efficient. I only tested it using on movie file so I'll have to wait and see if it increases efficiency across the board on other files.
Netflix is trying to squeeze water from a rock compressing the video so much. There is only so much compression you can do to a file before you notice it. Amazon and other streaming services uses a higher bitrate for there video and it shows.

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Old 08-06-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Netflix is trying to squeeze water from a rock compressing the video so much. There is only so much compression you can do to a file before you notice it.

What is it that you think you know about video compression ? At one point people would have scoffed at getting the quality possible using AVC at streaming bit rates. It rivals and surpasses the quality of MPEG2 TV broadcasts at triple the rate.

Quote:
Amazon and other streaming services uses a higher bitrate for there video and it shows.

Unless they've changed (which they might have) Amazon's 720p is encoded at a lower bit rate than Netflix's 720p and Netflix's is encoded with eyeIO tech. As I stated yesterday, Amazon's 720p video, though quite good, isn't better to my eyes than Netflix's. I have not had the pleasure of seeing Amazon's 1080p, but my guess is that the subset of their customers with equipment which can display it and network bandwidth sufficient to stream it is a percentage in single digits.

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Old 08-06-2014, 03:19 PM
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Don't believe me Michael. Fine look at this. Also I forgot to mark after Lost was Charmed on Netflix which is only 480p.
The last two programs on Amazon Fire TV after Covert Affairs was Batman and Superman the animated series in 480p using the same amount of bandwidth as Netflix 720p streams.
I may need glasses for distance but I can tell lower quality video from higher quality when wearing my glasses.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:03 PM
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Can you make a graph of 10 minutes of Amazon streaming 720p on your otherwise quiescent network? I want to see some indication of what bit rate they're encoding 720p at today.

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Old 08-06-2014, 04:23 PM
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I forgot Michael I read before you use a Roku 2 for Amazon. The Fire TV streams Amazon different which is why it performs the best. It precaches and optimizes the stream. The other devices don't do that. Also Netflix none of the devices so that. I am just hoping the new Apple TV 4 if it ever comes out does something with Netflix precache and optimize but that's wishful thinking.

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Old 08-06-2014, 04:29 PM
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I only use Amazon to stream things that I cannot get from Netflix, like Orphan Black; nothing else about the Fire interests me in the least, so I haven't bothered with it. I've also never been able to get very interested in ATV. Lord knows I have far more than enough streaming devices--something truly special will have to arise to get me to buy one. I plan to buy one of the Vizio P-Series UHD panels whensoever they might ship (I've been waiting since CES). Its HEVC-capable smart TV platform will be my next streamer.

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Old 08-06-2014, 04:31 PM
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I understand. I buy steaming devices like candy and I found the perfect Amazon streamer the Fire TV (the Roku, PS3 and PC were not that great) but I still have not found the perfect Netflix streamer that can handle congestion. I refuse to buy a Xbox One or a Wii U which have a different Netflix UI.

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Old 08-06-2014, 08:33 PM
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Netflix seems to be running smooth this evening. It's almost 7pm and Super HD is running most of the time. Maybe AT&T and Netflix have finally optimized the connections.
Netflix, AT&T Uverse, Atlanta, 9PM, Maiden Voyage, 1080p start to finish. I had complained so much that I thought I should report SuperHD is working, even though others have already said so.
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:28 AM
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Netflix, AT&T Uverse, Atlanta, 9PM, Maiden Voyage, 1080p start to finish. I had complained so much that I thought I should report SuperHD is working, even though others have already said so.
It has gotten a lot better on AT&T, but I still do drop down below 720p on occasion. It doesn't last long though. I'll stay on Super HD most of the time. I feel bad for the Verizon people. Just like their wireless division, their still cocky on their isp side as well.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:50 AM
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Funny you live in Atlanta connect to the same CDN I do but you have no issues. So it is not the CDN I can most likely connect to the CDN in LA what causes the poorer performance is going though Level 3. Even when I connected right to the NYC CDN which was practically next door I still had to go though crappy Level 3 so I still had congestion issues.

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Old 08-07-2014, 11:53 AM
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Maiden Voyage is not even on Netflix. How the heck do you watch it in Super HD unless it is in another stupid region another reason why I hate that Netflix gone international.
Also searching for Maiden Voyage on Google just gives me a jazz album, a book and a song no movie.

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Old 08-07-2014, 12:41 PM
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7 Aug 2014 11:05 PDT

Played 1080p Netflix example short23.796 bit rate = 4300kbps @ 1:00 > 5800kbps @ 3:00 for remainder no slowdown or buffer > 2013 Roku 2 streamer > ATT U verse FTTN 18mbps internet plan


Yo...anybody know when the Vizio pee reference thing cumin out Wall Mart peoples wanna know

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
It has gotten a lot better on AT&T, but I still do drop down below 720p on occasion. It doesn't last long though. I'll stay on Super HD most of the time. I feel bad for the Verizon people. Just like their wireless division, their still cocky on their isp side as well.
ATT been behaving better here lately too , probably ain't screwin wit da flex $&%$ like dey been too much right now
cause dey don't want no federal beef cummin down on dem while dey be tryin to buy Direct TV .... you wit me ?

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

Last edited by tubetwister; 08-07-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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