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post #6301 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 11:59 AM
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AT&T Uverse Broadband Speed Tiers

Just a note.

When I confirmed that a faster download speed tier was meaningless for my uses and in improving my Netflix Streaming Quality. I lowered my tier to up to 6mbps. Thus with my very stable speeds over a 200MB download test with a 0-1% variance, I found that I was able to view Netfix 4300kbps-5800kbps streams and my other subscription services without any noticeable picture quality degradation and save a few bucks.

Faster tiers on my AT&T Uverse connection actually increased the download variance thus degrading my video quality.

For me and my uses stability is more important than faster download speeds.

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post #6302 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 12:40 PM
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tracert ipv4_1.lagg0.c070.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net

C:\Users\XXXXXX>tracert ipv4_1.lagg0.c070.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net

Tracing route to ipv4_1.lagg0.c070.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.45.63.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 24 ms 24 ms 22 ms 107-143-228-3.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net [1
07.143.228.3]
3 * * *
4 24 ms 26 ms 27 ms 12.83.80.193
5 84 ms 72 ms 71 ms sffca01jt.ip.att.net [12.122.81.73]
6 76 ms 76 ms 75 ms 12.255.8.6
7 74 ms 75 ms 74 ms 198.45.63.8
8 74 ms 73 ms 73 ms ipv4_1.lagg0.c070.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.4
5.63.164]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\XXXXXX>

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post #6303 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS1947 View Post
Just a note.

When I confirmed that a faster download speed tier was meaningless for my uses and in improving my Netflix Streaming Quality. I lowered my tier to up to 6mbps. Thus with my very stable speeds over a 200MB download test with a 0-1% variance, I found that I was able to view Netfix 4300kbps-5800kbps streams and my other subscription services without any noticeable picture quality degradation and save a few bucks.

Faster tiers on my AT&T Uverse connection actually increased the download variance thus degrading my video quality.

For me and my uses stability is more important than faster download speeds.
Sure you can get 5800 mbps stable w/o buffering all day on 6mb ATT Verse (if you are close enough to FTTN neighborhood Vrad )it works real good they usually over provision it to ~7.5-7.75 mbps anyway to allow for U Verse TV even if UR only internet cust.

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post #6304 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Sure you can get 5800 mbps stable w/o buffering all day on 6mb ATT Verse (if you are close enough to FTTN neighborhood Vrad )it works real good they usually over provision it to ~7.5-7.75 mbps anyway to allow for U Verse TV even if UR only internet cust.

It's gotta be damned stable; 5800 Kbps is just the video bitrate. With 192 Kbps DD+ 5.1 sound that 5992, 8 bps short of that 6000 Kbps. Netflix states a requirement of 20% headroom (7.2 Mbps for that 5992 Kbps stream), but various player adaptive bit rate algorithms will probably not drop down to a lower rate if the buffer doesn't start emptying out. The thing is, at a stable 6 Mbps, any brief dip will drain some of the buffer which cannot be recovered at that bit rate. Enough such dips will drain it to whatever high water mark is in use, forcing a drop in encoding bit rate.

But would you really notice if it dipped down to 4300 Kbps for periods of time? Unless you were staring at a bit rate display, I doubt it.

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post #6305 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 02:42 PM
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tracert ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net

C:\Users\XXXXXX>tracert ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net

Tracing route to ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.38.108.148]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms 107-143-228-3.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net [107.143.228.3]
3 * * 23 ms 70.143.193.128
4 28 ms 26 ms 23 ms 12.83.80.193
5 51 ms 51 ms 130 ms 12.122.81.93
6 53 ms 52 ms 53 ms 12.255.8.32
7 53 ms 52 ms 54 ms ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.38.108.148]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\XXXXXX>

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post #6306 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 07:04 PM
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6 MB is pushing it for speed. You need at least 10 MB for headroom.

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post #6307 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
6 MB is pushing it for speed. You need at least 10 MB for headroom.

Nah, but you need 7.2 Mbps to be fairly certain of staying ahead of the 5992 Kbps Super HD video+5.1 audio stream. They're suggest that you'll want a 20 Mbps connection for stream their 15.8 Mbps 4K stream, 27% headroom (hopefully I'll be able to at least block that when I get my 4K TV ).

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post #6308 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Nah, but you need 7.2 Mbps to be fairly certain of staying ahead of the 5992 Kbps Super HD video+5.1 audio stream. They're suggest that you'll want a 20 Mbps connection for stream their 15.8 Mbps 4K stream, 27% headroom (hopefully I'll be able to at least block that when I get my 4K TV ).
But with 10 mbps you can also browse websites which my mother does playing games on Facebook. Now of course I have 16 mbps down.

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post #6309 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 09:15 PM
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Ain't no such thing as too much bandwidth .

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post #6310 of 6467 Old 08-10-2014, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
It's gotta be damned stable; 5800 Kbps is just the video bitrate. With 192 Kbps DD+ 5.1 sound that 5992, 8 bps short of that 6000 Kbps. Netflix states a requirement of 20% headroom (7.2 Mbps for that 5992 Kbps stream), but various player adaptive bit rate algorithms will probably not drop down to a lower rate if the buffer doesn't start emptying out. The thing is, at a stable 6 Mbps, any brief dip will drain some of the buffer which cannot be recovered at that bit rate. Enough such dips will drain it to whatever high water mark is in use, forcing a drop in encoding bit rate.

But would you really notice if it dipped down to 4300 Kbps for periods of time? Unless you were staring at a bit rate display, I doubt it.
Quite right - but he chewed my head off when I suggested the same a few weeks ago.....

Anyway now Netflix has stopped the lower quality 1080P streams I assume we should stop referring to 4350/5800 kpbs streams as Super HD (a silly name anyway) and just start calling them what they are the Netflix 1080P streams.

They look very good - maybe not quite Vudu HDX/Amazon Instant 1080P/iTunes - but certainly very watchable on a good quality calibrated TV / screen
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post #6311 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 05:07 AM
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Yeah, with 6mbps service running around 5600-5800 real, I bounce between the two Netflix 1080p tiers and hold Amazon HD fine. Would be nice if I had another options though.
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post #6312 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS1947 View Post
C:\Users\XXXXXX>tracert ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net

Tracing route to ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.38.108.148]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms 107-143-228-3.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net [107.143.228.3]
3 * * 23 ms 70.143.193.128
4 28 ms 26 ms 23 ms 12.83.80.193
5 51 ms 51 ms 130 ms 12.122.81.93
6 53 ms 52 ms 53 ms 12.255.8.32
7 53 ms 52 ms 54 ms ipv4_1.cxl0.c318.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.38.108.148]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\XXXXXX>
Location-wise you went from your home to Dallas, then Richardson, TX before 3 hops in Middleton, NJ finally arriving at the Wilmington, Delaware server. I've read a few comments on the internet that some improvements have been made at the Delaware server although they could be just hopeful speculation.
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post #6313 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
Location-wise you went from your home to Dallas, then Richardson, TX before 3 hops in Middleton, NJ finally arriving at the Wilmington, Delaware server. I've read a few comments on the internet that some improvements have been made at the Delaware server although they could be just hopeful speculation.
A friend and colleague at my ISP told me: 12.83.80.193, 12.122.81.93, 12.255.8.32 are now in Phoenix, Arizona. He was aware that various IP Locators are showing it in New Jersey and Kansas. I remember when he changed my IP address about a year ago it was incorrectly showing in El Dorado, Kansas for some time, then ended up showing at my home city.

I found several IP Locators that show it in NJ, KS and AZ.

I was under the impression that an IP address was just an address and does not always indicate the actual location for some time when the IP address was changed or reassigned.

What do you or anyone else on the forum think?

Thanks..

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Hey guys, I decided to do a tracert to several CDN locations using several of my VPN locations. And well I was right, the fastest CDN for me using my VPN is the San Jose California location (My VPN DNS is in the Bay Area). However, the weirdest thing happens, after about 4 hops, I am already hitting the Netflix CDN, but after that I get a whole bunch of stars i.e "* * * Request Timed Out" about 8 of them or so (I did not count). But when I use that CDN I get very fast to HD and it stays there. What do the stars and time out mean when the Netflix result is exactly what we would want in the first place?

Should I post with and without VPN results?
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post #6315 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 12:23 PM
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AT&T Netflix Peering

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS1947 View Post
A friend and colleague at my ISP told me: 12.83.80.193, 12.122.81.93, 12.255.8.32 are now in Phoenix, Arizona.
After pondering this, my theory is he may be mistaken. That there may be alot of confusion with interdepartmental communications since the peering roll-out is still new and going through compatibility checks and testing before it is up to full capacity and green lighted. At that point it will probably become a marketing feature for AT&T.

If my trace route is to the Andromeda Galaxy and back with the great video quality I am seeing, I'm fine with that.

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post #6316 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 12:54 PM
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LOL the Netflix Andromeda Galaxy CDN...
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post #6317 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 01:36 PM
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Which Verizon and TWC redirects thru The Triangulum galaxy first. That explains the crappy streaming during primetime.
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post #6318 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Some major ISPs, like Cablevision, already practice strong net neutrality and for their broadband subscribers, the quality of Netflix and other streaming services is outstanding, but on other big ISPs, due to a lack of sufficient interconnectivity, Netflix performance has been constrained, subjecting consumers who pay a lot of money for high-speed Internet to high buffering rates, long wait times and poor video quality.
Reed Hastings



I can't say that I disagree. After reading about all these issues with Netflix, I've become a Cablevision fan boy when it comes to streaming HD video content. Hopefully things will change once these peering arrangements are achieved and there will be an end to all this mediocrity.


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post #6319 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
Which Verizon and TWC redirects thru The Triangulum galaxy first. That explains the crappy streaming during primetime.
Unknown at this time. However if Net Neutrality is enacted it will be redirected through the Sun. Everything should be just peachy then.

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post #6320 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 02:25 PM
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Still wonder why I am the only one getting direct peering form Atlanta. I am glad but I hope it is not a fluke that will go away because when I trace router the other CDN's from Chicago and New York it goes though crappy Level 3. Philly goes though XO but it is still not a direct connection.

When I search for news about Netflix all I get is originals now, Verizon, this and AT&T that. All I get when I search for Netflix Time Warner Cable is Comcast this and Comcast that.

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post #6321 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
Which Verizon and TWC redirects thru The Triangulum galaxy first. That explains the crappy streaming during primetime.
Nope it's the POS Level 3. Still don't get why I still connect to the same CDN in Atlanta but going directly though TWC and not Level 3 performance is so much better. Level 3 480p & 720p dropouts in the evening mainly after 9 PM EST the worst being Sunday and Monday nights. Direct connection through TWC to the same CDN in Atlanta Super HD all the way 24/7. I don't get it.

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post #6322 of 6467 Old 08-11-2014, 08:52 PM
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Notice since AT&T did it's direct peering and I am getting direct peering on TWC to Atlanta http://downrightnow.com/netflix is showing Up a majority of the time. I never see it that good unless it is the middle of the night or morning.

I wonder if streaming on FiOS has improved as I am hearing less chatter on the forums there too. No I don't follow social media and I never will.

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post #6323 of 6467 Old 08-12-2014, 10:47 AM
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I currently get about 65-70mbps, don't feel like buying a new router or Id be close to 100mbps.If they have fiber optics in your area get it, its crazy fast downloading
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post #6324 of 6467 Old 08-12-2014, 02:31 PM
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Also I have a topic here about the temporary direct peering on DSL Reports I am under tonyram57.

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post #6325 of 6467 Old 08-13-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I currently get about 65-70mbps, don't feel like buying a new router or Id be close to 100mbps.If they have fiber optics in your area get it, its crazy fast downloading
I've been interested in cutting as much from my cable bill as possible. As such I've determined that Comcast's 6Mbps plan actually suites my needs sufficiently (disclaimer... I have only had this plan for a few days now, down from 25Mbps, and haven't had a whole lot of time to experiment around with Netflix and online streaming outside of youtube).

Netflix states that 5Mbps download speed is sufficient for HD streaming. I'm not sure if they this is regarding 720p streaming or the higher quality superHD 1080p streaming quality. As such, I think that I'm not going to be able to tell a difference.

Also, my online gaming needs do not require much more than 1Mbps, so my 25Mbps plan was overkill in my opinion.

So I'm wondering, what do you need the 65-70Mbps plan for? You must do a lot of downloading? When I was transcoding I could have used the higher speed plans but it was a lot more money to have a sufficient upload speed. With transcoding I would have liked to have a minimum of 10Mbps upload and the only plan that Comcast said I could purchase with that type of upload speed was there 105Mbps download speed at the time.

Anyhow, I'm gonna try the 6Mbps download plan for the time being.
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post #6326 of 6467 Old 08-13-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I've been interested in cutting as much from my cable bill as possible. As such I've determined that Comcast's 6Mbps plan actually suites my needs sufficiently (disclaimer... I have only had this plan for a few days now, down from 25Mbps, and haven't had a whole lot of time to experiment around with Netflix and online streaming outside of youtube).

Netflix states that 5Mbps download speed is sufficient for HD streaming. I'm not sure if they this is regarding 720p streaming or the higher quality superHD 1080p streaming quality. As such, I think that I'm not going to be able to tell a difference.

Also, my online gaming needs do not require much more than 1Mbps, so my 25Mbps plan was overkill in my opinion.

So I'm wondering, what do you need the 65-70Mbps plan for? You must do a lot of downloading? When I was transcoding I could have used the higher speed plans but it was a lot more money to have a sufficient upload speed. With transcoding I would have liked to have a minimum of 10Mbps upload and the only plan that Comcast said I could purchase with that type of upload speed was there 105Mbps download speed at the time.

Anyhow, I'm gonna try the 6Mbps download plan for the time being.

Just my opinion only based on my uses and AT&T Uverse after implementation of the Netflix/AT&T peering agreement:

Netflix HD 1080p streams are 4300kbps & 5800kbps ("SuperHD" marketing moniker). Netflix HD 720p stream is 3000kbps.

Adding the DD+ 5.1 sound data, 4300kbps should work with a stable 'up to 6Mbps' and no noticeable video quality difference between the 4300kbps and 5800kbps streams. 4300kbps with DD+ 5.1 works fine for my personal uses and with my up to 6Mbps which I downgraded to from my AT&T Uverse up to 18Mbps. I very seldom download very large files and am not obsessed with the higher speeds marketing by ISPs.

I also use Amazon Prime which is uncompressed true DD 5.1 and a higher 720p video quality. I do not know what their 720p kbps bit rate is.

90% of my HD viewing is with the Directv THR22 Tivo HD DVR with the Premier Package, Satellite & internet On Demand downloads .

In the future Netflix will probably re-brand it to "SuperUperDuperHD" marketing moniker.

Let the criticism and picking apart of my post begin!


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Last edited by RRS1947; 08-13-2014 at 01:33 PM.
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post #6327 of 6467 Old 08-13-2014, 12:36 PM
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Standard 15 mbps is perfect for me which let's me stream two HD streams at the same time while my mother plays games on Facebook. 😀
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post #6328 of 6467 Old 08-13-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS1947 View Post
Just my opinion only:4300kbps with DD+ 5.1 works fine for my personal uses and with my up to 6Mbps which I downgraded to from my AT&T Uverse up to 18Mbps. I very seldom download very large files and am not obsessed with the higher speeds marketing by ISPs.
Nice! Its good to see others are able to "get by" as well.
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Standard 15 mbps is perfect for me which let's me stream two HD streams at the same time while my mother plays games on Facebook. 😀
I wish Comcast would quit with the Shenanigans. They purposely make there plans the way they are to manipulate the consumer. There is nothing between "up to 6Mbps" and "up to 25Mbps" and the price difference between those two are disproportional in regards to price when looking at their other service plans. I would love for the option to have 15Mbps and would gladly pay $50 for it.
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post #6329 of 6467 Old 08-13-2014, 01:34 PM
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Cox offers 1M down/384K up w/a 50GB cap for $33/month, 5M/1M/100G for $48/month, 25M/5M/200G for $62, 50M/10M/300G for $74 and 100M/20M/400G for $100/month. Of course, they're all subject to about a 20% discount for the first 12 months after subscribing or upgrading and whatever deal you can wangle after that. I currently have a 6 month deal on the 50M tier for $67, negotiated after my 1 year $80/month deal on the 100M tier expired (being a heavy downloader I loved the 100M tier, but it ain't worth an extra $26-$33/month). In the past I've shared this house with light network users but now I share it with a guy who illegally downloads all of the video that he watches; thankfully he doesn't give much of a damn about bit rates. We have a 300GB/month cap on the 50M service which can get tight during my heavy summer TV hiatus streaming.
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post #6330 of 6467 Old 08-13-2014, 01:41 PM
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In the past I've shared this house with light network users but now I share it with a guy who illegally downloads all of the video that he watches; thankfully he doesn't give much of a damn about bit rates.
Tell him to get his own damn internet.

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