Netflix streaming quality - Page 214 - AVS Forum
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post #6391 of 6399 Old 08-25-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
LOL! I doubt that.

There are people who think that there are more than there are. Someone in the Roku forums will complain that something's not working right on their Roku 3 but it works fine on their TiVo Roamio and someone else (possibly a Roku staffer) will reply "you can't compare because they use different video encodes", which is untrue. They currently maintain 6 sets, two for old "legacy devices", two for Apple devices and two for most everything else, one of those being HEVC, introduced mostly to support 4K and not used by many things at all yet.
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post #6392 of 6399 Old 08-25-2014, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
There are people who think that there are more than there are. Someone in the Roku forums will complain that something's not working right on their Roku 3 but it works fine on their TiVo Roamio and someone else (possibly a Roku staffer) will reply "you can't compare because they use different video encodes", which is untrue. They currently maintain 6 sets, two for old "legacy devices", two for Apple devices and two for most everything else, one of those being HEVC, introduced mostly to support 4K and not used by many things at all yet.
You mean this is no longer true?
http://gigaom.com/2012/12/18/netflix-encoding/
Or are you just in an nitpicking mood (again)?
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post #6393 of 6399 Old 08-25-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
You mean this is no longer true?

Or are you just in an nitpicking mood (again)?

They never did explain what those 120 "downloadables" are. The older profiles had muxed audio, integral with the video files and burned in subtitles for languages that weren't for the local region; they'd have had to produce multiple versions of titles with multiple language dubs and subtitles, which would account for some of that. (They were supporting Spanish, Canadian French and Brazilian Portuguese speaking regions at that time). The slide says "accomodates diffrent [sic] bit rates, audio tracks, captioning". They do explain the evolution of the encoding profiles in a slideshow entitled "A Brief History of Netflix Streaming"; they show a list of the 10 encoding profiles that they've developed over the years on slide 38, four of which are no longer in use. I don't know which were in use when that encoding slideshow was made (the HEVC one didn't exist then). A newer slideshow entitled "Encoding At Netflix: Netflix Digital Supply Chain shows a list of only the 6 profiles that are currently supported.

I commented on your post to try to quell the notion that device-specific encoding profiles are supported by Netflix (though two of the dead ones were solely for PS3 and Wii ). The reply wasn't aimed at you.
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post #6394 of 6399 Old 08-26-2014, 12:06 PM
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This is where it helps to have some encoding experience and even playing with the free version of Microsoft Expression. Some devices will require a baseline profile whereas others can use more compressed files. There's all kinds of options when it comes to encoding and new solutions difficult to keep up with (especially if they are proprietary).

It's not so much that they encode for specific devices but devices can fall into groups they encode for.

Standards? What's that?
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post #6395 of 6399 Old 08-26-2014, 02:08 PM
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I'm pretty sure that devices adapt to what Netflix gives them, not the other way around, particularly these days. You create a device that can't display Netflix's streams, then you bring a device to market without a Netflix app while all of its competitors have one. (Someone did this recently, though I doubt that it was because their product was incapable of handling Netflix. I recall discussing the thing in the Roku forums, though I forget what it was. It might have been the latest iteration of WD TV; they're not listing Netflix among their US online services. They say "you don't need another player for Netflix" in their spiel. Lots of files-from-LAN-server oriented streamers--like Popcorn Hour--eschew apps for Netflix and some other of the most popular services, though they generally have apps for some network services. WD TV might now be one such; my 3rd gen WD TV Live is the single most capable networked file player that I own and has astonished me with the variety of things it can play).

The sole exception to this has been Apple devices. Since Apple already had HLS (completely incompatible with what they were doing for other platforms) they created an app which used that and an encoding profile for it. They said they had it working in 1.5 weeks after Apple invited them to be part of the original iPad launch and had it up and running on iPad with 20K titles (2 bit rates each) in 2 months. They've continued to evolve and support that profile and probably will keep doing it; Apple's customer base is certainly worth the effort.

Other than iOS devices, I believe that every device with a Netflix streaming app which launched in the past 3 years uses their "CE2" profile (as well as Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii, which are older), with AVC video, separate audio and timed text. They can support multiple platforms in multiple regions with different language requirements with a single set of encodes; it's very elegant. Also, their library is into multiple petabytes already; branching off special profiles to support specific groups of devices is not desirable.
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post #6396 of 6399 Old 08-27-2014, 12:00 PM
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Michael, devices come with chipsets to decode these days and have long before Netflix did streaming. Like I said you group the devices into the chipsets they use. Some can only handle the base profile which is often recommended when you want to do one file that all can run. More recent chipsets can decode higher profiles which saves on bandwidth usage and provides a better picture.
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post #6397 of 6399 Old 08-27-2014, 12:37 PM
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I understand what you're saying, but I strongly doubt that Netflix is creating multiple sets of video encodes to accommodate device capabilities for different levels of AVC. I think that they choose something (H.264 HP@whatever); whatever that something is, if you want your device to stream Netflix you design it to handle that.

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post #6398 of 6399 Old 08-27-2014, 01:23 PM
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If the Apple TV uses so called different CDN Networks and codecs then explain to me why if I start to watch something on one device then switch to the Apple TV I get the same exact CDN IP address?

Also playing the example shorts they all have the same bitrate encodes from the horrible low def encodes, 1050 kbps and 1750 kbps 480p encodes to 2350, 3000 kbps 720p to 4300 kbps and 5800 kbps 1080p. The only thing I can say about the Apple TV is that it is the sharpest picture out of all the streamers as even 1750 kbps 480p looks just like a unconverted DVD especially if you compare it with Batman Beyond which is 480p done right compared to their badly encoded 480p and 720p content.

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post #6399 of 6399 Old 08-27-2014, 01:54 PM
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Not to mention I am curious if Netflix provides Webm encodes for Chromecast. Webm makes it a little easier to do DASH. I've played with some of Google's utilities to do such and tried their examples.
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