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post #6481 of 6722 Old 10-01-2014, 03:06 PM
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Brian's post above mentioned Blacklist. I watched an episode on Netflix 4k this afternoon.


A lot of the Netflix 4k isn't better than Super HD or Blu Ray. However, the Blacklist episode was superb. Especially outside scenes, in good light, were obviously clearer, better video than what I get with Blu Ray on my OPPO 103D. Many of the posters on the Samsung 4k threads had been praising Netflix for this series. If I were trying to sell 4k displays with streaming video, it's definitely what I would show.
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post #6482 of 6722 Old 10-01-2014, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Brian's post above mentioned Blacklist. I watched an episode on Netflix 4k this afternoon.


A lot of the Netflix 4k isn't better than Super HD or Blu Ray. However, the Blacklist episode was superb. Especially outside scenes, in good light, were obviously clearer, better video than what I get with Blu Ray on my OPPO 103D. Many of the posters on the Samsung 4k threads had been praising Netflix for this series. If I were trying to sell 4k displays with streaming video, it's definitely what I would show.
I watch Blacklist on NBC using Directv as my carrier and although it may not compete with some BD's, surprisingly it offers some of the best picture quality I have seen. This can probably be attributed more to an exceptional video master, and transfers, which produce very contrasty, detailed pictures, then to differences in static video resolution. With an ample amount of bandwidth, it will look great, even in 1080p.

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post #6483 of 6722 Old 10-01-2014, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I watch Blacklist on NBC using Directv as my carrier and although it may not compete with some BD's, surprisingly it offers some of the best picture quality I have seen. This can probably be attributed more to an exceptional video master, and transfers, which produce very contrasty, detailed pictures, then to differences in static video resolution. With an ample amount of bandwidth, it will look great, even in 1080p.

It's probably more attributable to it being shot with a Sony PMW-F55 CineAlta 4K Digital Cinema Camera (see this). It's the only thing that I've watched in Netflix 4K that impressed me. The level of detail is so high that it looks as though you could could walk into the screen. Season 2 of House of Cards was shot in 4K as well but it's not nearly as evident.

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post #6484 of 6722 Old 10-01-2014, 10:35 PM
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All of Netflix 4k encodes are they all 2160p?

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post #6485 of 6722 Old 10-01-2014, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
It's probably more attributable to it being shot with a Sony PMW-F55 CineAlta 4K Digital Cinema Camera (see this). It's the only thing that I've watched in Netflix 4K that impressed me. The level of detail is so high that it looks as though you could could walk into the screen. Season 2 of House of Cards was shot in 4K as well but it's not nearly as evident.
Interesting. Again, it goes back to the original master, which as you posted, was shot with a very capable DCC. Although I've already watched season 1 on NBC, I also watched an episode of the show just to see how it fared on Netflix this evening. The visual resolution is outstanding even when displayed on my PDP in Super HD. It mimics BD quality, which is rather surprising, due to bandwidth limitations. I'm curious to see how it looks on Blu-Ray when compared to 4k streaming.

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post #6486 of 6722 Old 10-01-2014, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
All of Netflix 4k encodes are they all 2160p?

Yes, they all 3840x2160p24 (no p25 or p30 that I know of as yet). It's the "Ultra HD" format that "4K" televisions display.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Interesting. Again, it goes back to the original master, which as you posted, was shot with a very capable DCC. Although I've already watched season 1 on NBC, I also watched an episode of the show just to see how it fared on Netflix this evening. The visual resolution is outstanding even when displayed on my PDP in Super HD. It mimics BD quality, which is rather surprising, due to bandwidth limitations. I'm curious to see how it looks on Blu-Ray when compared to 4k streaming.

The "re-mastered in 4K" BDs often have noticeable added detail, though not alway. I have never seen any BD on a 1080p TV as sharp as this.

I do not say that 4K will fail because it's never impressive because it can be. It's that you have to sit so close to it see the detail. It's a modification to how people watch television, just like wearing 3D glasses was.

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post #6487 of 6722 Old 10-02-2014, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I do not say that 4K will fail because it's never impressive because it can be. It's that you have to sit so close to it see the detail. It's a modification to how people watch television, just like wearing 3D glasses was.
I've seen 4k demos on a 55'' and 65'' display and I agree it can be pretty impressive close up, but once you move about 6 ft away, most peoples eyes can't discern the higher resolution.

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post #6488 of 6722 Old 10-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I've seen 4k demos on a 55'' and 65'' display and I agree it can be pretty impressive close up, but once you move about 6 ft away, most peoples eyes can't discern the higher resolution.

Ian
I know but I always welcome higher resolutions even if you can't notice further away. Nothing irritates me more with 720p big screen TV's they still make and phones and tablets the most irritating with some big screens with 720p or lower resolution screens.

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post #6489 of 6722 Old 10-02-2014, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Yes, they all 3840x2160p24 (no p25 or p30 that I know of as yet). It's the "Ultra HD" format that "4K" televisions display.
.
Nor should they bother with 25p or 30p. If 24p is good enough to provide acceptable motion to the human eye and brain then it's not broke. Faster frame rates do tend to "soap opera" a video display. Also 24p makes a good common frame rate for all regions. And 25 and 30 fps as we all know (or should) is because analog TV was tied to the AC line frequency of the country.
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post #6490 of 6722 Old 10-02-2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
I know but I always welcome higher resolutions even if you can't notice further away. Nothing irritates me more with 720p big screen TV's they still make and phones and tablets the most irritating with some big screens with 720p or lower resolution screens.
The only bigger 720p screens are plasma's, but even they are limited to 50 inches. Besides, that technology is being discontinued. As far as mobile screens like phones and tablets etc..are considered, they are too small to offer any improvement above 720p anyway.

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Last edited by mailiang; 10-02-2014 at 02:20 PM.
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post #6491 of 6722 Old 10-02-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
The only bigger 720p screens are plasma's, but even they are limited to 50 inches. Besides, that technology is being discontinued. As far as mobile screens like phones and tablets etc..are considered, they are too small to offer any improvement above 720p anyway.

Ian
Those 720p plasmas really are a waste. They are not even 720p and have a pathetic old resolution of 1024x768 what is this 2000. My old Dell CRT had a higher resolution than that.
As for phones another beef I have is I seen ones bigger than 4" with even lower resolution 800x400. I am going to say it but every LCD/LED display should be 1080p and up no matter what the screen size is. That is what I think.

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post #6492 of 6722 Old 10-02-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
Nor should they bother with 25p or 30p. If 24p is good enough to provide acceptable motion to the human eye and brain then it's not broke. Faster frame rates do tend to "soap opera" a video display. Also 24p makes a good common frame rate for all regions. And 25 and 30 fps as we all know (or should) is because analog TV was tied to the AC line frequency of the country.

It also seems to be true of digital television production in the UK; 25p on Netflix. I don't know whether they'll abandon that or not as UK television production moves into the 4K age (if it does).

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post #6493 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 01:46 PM
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The Chrome browser in Windows 8 at least uses the HTML5 player however it is limited to their cruddy 720p streams only. I played a episode of something that I know is Super HD on all devices and it only went up to 3000kbps. Also the example short as pictured here only goes up to 3000kbps. The Windows 8 app was able to achieve 5800kbps playback.
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post #6494 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 02:24 PM
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That is strange, I can only get IE11 to do 5800, but the latest Netflix app will not go above 3000 and nor will Chrome. Guess I better change CDN's real quick.
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post #6495 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 02:48 PM
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The Win8 Netflix app goes to 5800 Kbps for me. I can't remember which they were, but I have seen titles where I could get 1080p in IE11 or an embedded device, but only 720p in the app. I have seen titles where the resolution limits were different for IE11, the app and embedded devices (one SD-only, one 720p-only and one 1080p).

Strange and stupid that they're throttling Chrome to 720p while allowing IE11 to do 5800 Kbps.

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post #6496 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 02:56 PM
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OK, this is very strange now. Just tried the Texas, Arizona and California CDN's, all three of which used to give me really quick 5800 kbps. Now on Chrome 37 (64bit) and the latest Netflix app just re-installed today I am only getting a max of 3000 kbps on all three Netflix CDN's. When I fire up IE11 it ramps up to 5800 faster than the others by half the time.

What the heck is going on lately? Checked Netflix settings and it is still on the highest HD quality settings with HTML5 as the preferable player. Are we getting into more throttling again?
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post #6497 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 03:09 PM
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Why doesn't Netflix just allow you to buffer the video for a while at the desired resolution? I assume that has something to do with language in the contracts with the studios.
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post #6498 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 03:17 PM
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I guess Netflix again pushing there pos 3000 kbps 720p encodes this time in Chrome and we stupidity think we don't notice.

They better not throttle the windows 8 app.

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post #6499 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
I guess Netflix again pushing there pos 3000 kbps 720p encodes this time in Chrome and we stupidity think we don't notice.

They better not throttle the windows 8 app.
I doubt they are doing the throttling per app, if so my Netflix App would be running at 5800 and IE11 at only 3000, but its the opposite happening. So either they are pick and choosing who/what to throttle or something else is going on. The one thing I know is different on my end is that a few days ago I finally installed the latest Radeon 14.9 drivers.

IE11 is running superbly for my Netflix at 5800, and I hate using IE with a passion but am now forced to. lol
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post #6500 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 03:38 PM
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The Windows 8 Netflix app still goes up to 5800kbps when I played the example short. This is after I deleted and reinstalled the app so it is fine there.

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post #6501 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
The Windows 8 Netflix app still goes up to 5800kbps when I played the example short. This is after I deleted and reinstalled the app so it is fine there.
Not for me unfortunately...
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post #6502 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SkOrPn View Post
Not for me unfortunately...
Maybe you got a "update" cough "worse update" version and now they limit it to there cruddy 720p streams. If they do I will just delete the app and be done with it. Watching on the TV using enabled devices is much more reliable as it ramps up much quicker and there is no crazy lower resolution restrictions of certain titles because of certain studio's stupid policy's.

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post #6503 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SkOrPn View Post
Not for me unfortunately...

Have you deleted and reinstalled the app? When you play something known to have 1080p video encodes (like, for instance, "Example Short"), what do you see in the Stream Manager's list of bit rates (CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S)?

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post #6504 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Have you deleted and reinstalled the app? When you play something known to have 1080p video encodes (like, for instance, "Example Short"), what do you see in the Stream Manager's list of bit rates (CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S)?
Yeah I deleted it now twice today and reinstalled it twice today.

On the Netflix App I'm seeing (I can't highlight and copy the text) but it takes forever to get there.
Code:
package version : 2.9.0.29
Playing a/v : 64 / 3000
Buffering a/v : 64 / 3000

On IE11 I see (copied using CTRL+C). Gets to 5800 after about 11 seconds or so.

Code:
Version: 2.0000.006.031
Esn: NFCDIE-01-9VVF05TJTMF4235ED1HEJ23XU7VM1C
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; Trident/7.0; .NET4.0E; .NET4.0C; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; rv:11.0) like Gecko

MovieId: 70136810
TrackingId: 13462100
Xid: 14126403708427 (14126403708427)
Position: 116.879
Duration: 670.207
Volume: 100%

Player state: Normal
Buffering state: Normal, ETA:0.000
Rendering state: Playing

Playing bitrate (a/v): 64 / 5800 ( res: 1920x1080, par: 1x1 )
Buffering bitrate (a/v): 64 / 5800
Buffer size in Bytes (a/v): 1875636 / 228213028
Buffer size in Bytes: 242504431
Buffer size in Seconds (a/v): 235.163 / 223.461
Will Rebuffer: false
Current CDN: c015.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net, Id: 11066

Audio Track: en, Id: 656e7c322e307c5072696d6172797c747275657c6e6f6e657c756e6b6e6f776e7c756e6b6e6f776e7c417564696f7c756e6b6e6f776e7c7c, Channels: 2.0, Codec: mp4a
Video Track: Codec: encv
Timed Text Track: none

Framerate: 23.976
Total Frames: 1174
Total Dropped Frames: 0
Total Corrupted Frames: undefined
Total Frame Delay: 0
Main Thread stall/sec: DISABLED
VideoDiag: ConstrictionActive=false,Status=TrustEstablished,readyState=4,currentTime=117.0294382,videoBuffered=36.036,videoRanges=112.112-148.148,audioBuffered=64.000,audioRanges=96.0426666-160.0426666

Latency: 0 ms
Throughput: 45180 KBPS
Bandwidth (normalized): 45179 KBPS
Max Sustainable Video Bitrate: 45115 KBPS
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post #6505 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 08:08 PM
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OK, got some interesting but weird news. I figured out the Stream Manager thing (SHIFT-CTRL-ALT-S), and when I launched it it shows it defaults to 3000 when using the Netflix App. BUT, it lets me select a manual setting of 5800. However, it then shows in SHIFT-CTRL-ALT-D that it is buffering 5800 but NEVER moves beyond 3000. I played the entire Example Short at 3000 with nearly a 50 meg connection and it never once went above 3000. On IE11 it is at 5800 in no time.

I then closed the Netflix app and restarted it and tried again and it yet again defaulted to 3000. I then manually set it back to 5800 and it said it was buffering 5800, but continued to play 3000. I stopped the video without closing the App, and then resumed the video and it went back to 3000 default on its own. My Netflix app no longer wants to have anything to do with higher than 3000 KBPS streams.

I went through the Radeon CCC to try and find some settings that may shine a light but I see nothing different from 14.4. No real loss really, my video card is directly connected to the TV, so I get no benefit from using the Netflix App over the IE11 HTML5 player.

I wonder what is going on?
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post #6506 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 08:19 PM
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If the Stream Manager shows that there are 4300- and 5800 Kbps encodes, then the mystery is why your system suddenly won't advance to them. There's no "default"; if there isn't one selected it uses adaptive bit rate to choose which video encode to play, generally starting low and ramping up; selecting one manually in the stream manager defeats that and should result in it stopping and buffering if it can't keep up instead of dynamically dropping down to a low bit rate encode.

That's all that I wanted to know--the 1080p encodes are available to the Win8 app on your system, it's just never loading them for some reason. You'll notice in reddice's picture above of the stream manager in the HTML5 player running in Chrome, 4300- and 5800 Kbps are absent from the list. The advantage of the Win8 app over IE11 is that it can bitstream DD+, if you're connected via HDMI through a sound capable graphics card to something, like an AVR, which can play DD+.

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post #6507 of 6722 Old 10-06-2014, 11:45 PM
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Michael, I never said there was a default bitstream, I meant my Netflix app is ramping up to 3000 and not ever bypassing it. The little manual dot selection next to the stream managers bitstreams numbers is automatically set on 3000, a.k.a defaulting to 3000. That is how I use the word default, as do millions of other people. Maybe I should see what happens in Windows 10?

Furthermore my stream manager in chrome looks identical to reddice's as well, so nothing really interesting there. But in IE11 it shows 4300 and 5800, and playing those without any problem.

I already know exactly what the benefit is to using the Netflix App, well aware of that. I have been a member here for a long time testing these apps, researching and using different internet connections until I am blue in the frackin face. You think my brain has somehow forgotten all this? I'm addicted to researching these topics, so I know what the apps pros and cons are. On my setup there is no pros, and never will be, unless my TV somehow suddenly spawns a DD+ surround sound system, which is highly unlikely... So I really do not need to know, yet again for the thousandth time what the Apps pros are. There are no pros for me. What I do know all to well is its annoying Cons. Such as its much slower to start playback, and much much slower to ramp up to HD (another big Con) on MY system. Let me repeat ON MY SYSTEM. And now out of the blue it only does 3000 kbps (A Con only if I used the thing). The little dot selection in the stream manager is defaulting to 3000, meaning that is where the dot selection is when I launch the Stream Manager. Since its UI is about as ugly as it can get, and utterly featureless, I rarely ever use the app so I have no clue when this 3000 max bitstream thing started.

See screenshot below, it has clearly defaulted to 3000. This is how it is everytime I opened it today, even after manually selecting 5800. This is what I meant when I said "what it is defaulting to". If the dot had been jumping around onto different settings, I would not have used the word "default'. But its not jumping around, it is ALWAYS showing the 3000 buffering rate.



Anyway, as long as whatever is going on does not affect my HTML5 player I will remain happy.
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post #6508 of 6722 Old 10-07-2014, 10:20 AM
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Hey guys I was wondering if anybody has any intel on when or if the Windows app will do HEVC for 4k. It seems like it would be an easy solution and it would be nice to try 4k out via my HTPC.

Living room theater set-up:  
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1124-K.
Speakers/Sub: (4) NHT Classic Two and an NHT TwoC center + PSA-XV15 subwoofer.
HTPC: z97 mobo, 16GB mem, i5-4440, SSD+HD, LG BD drive, Win 8.1 pro w/WMC + MB3.
Content sources: OTA Winegard HD7698P, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Netflix etc.
HDTV: Sharp LC-60SQ15U (ehhh).
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post #6509 of 6722 Old 10-07-2014, 12:37 PM
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Late last night I decided to watch a film on Netflix that had audio problems when streaming on Chromecast. On Chromecast the video played fine but about a half minute into the film the audio sounded like a stuck record. I tried the film just on my Android phone and the audio played fine. So last night I tried my BD player NF app and the audio was fine. In fact the whole film played in HD that is up to about 45 minutes. Then the film stopped to rebuffer with the indicator showing only 0.5 mbps. This was about at 12:08 AM. Wonder what that was about? I couldn't get it back up to speed again so gave up. I also reported the audio problem on Chromecast to Netflix. I have a sneaking suspicion they are using WebM streams for Chromecast and the separate audio file is corrupt.
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post #6510 of 6722 Old 10-08-2014, 11:08 AM
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TWC boosted my speeds yesterday with Standard from 15/1 to 50/5. Now with the FF rewind method on the PS3 and PS4 it starts out immediately in Super HD. The ATV3 also starts our immediately in Super HD. This and now a direct peering deal last month I no longer care I can't get Cablevision and FiOS. 😀

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