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post #6751 of 7496 Old 12-07-2014, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
...without going thru the device manufacturer for a firmware update.

I believe that they can update the old common Netflix UI on WD TV Live and other platforms; that display has been fubar before and they fixed it. That interface, like the new one, is based on web technology, written in JavaScript, HTML5 and CSS3 running on the Webkit platform. The latest version of the UI code is downloaded when you start it. No one's gotten around to fixing that one, probably because it's not actively being supported (though they did make some cosmetic changes to it not too long ago; that banner at the top of the browser now has a black background and the loading screen has changed to resemble the one for the new UI).

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post #6752 of 7496 Old 12-07-2014, 08:16 PM
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They also removed the 'Super' HD designation on the old common UI.
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post #6753 of 7496 Old 12-07-2014, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
They also removed the 'Super' HD designation on the old common UI.

Ah, you're right! We discussed that. Another semi-cosmetic change that they made to the new UI. Back when the "Super HD" label was there you could tell what the 720p-only titles were because they'd be marked simply "HD".

The sole holdout is the Win8 app, AFAIK. No doubt it's only a matter of time until they change that.

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post #6754 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The sole holdout is the Win8 app, AFAIK. No doubt it's only a matter of time until they change that.
What button do you press to call up that corner display on the Win8 app? Nothing I've pressed shows it.

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post #6755 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
What button do you press to call up that corner display on the Win8 app? Nothing I've pressed shows it.

AFAIK, not available in that app. CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S will get you a list of available bitrates and indicate which one is being played and which is being buffered now (you can also set a fixed bitrate on that dialog, but it will repeatedly pause and rebuffer if it can't keep up with what you choose). CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D will cover the screen with a transparent debug dialog, which will give you that information and a little more. Neither will tell you what the displayed resolution is. Here's a table:
Code:
2.610 - 5800 Kbps  (1920 x 1080,  1:1)
1.935 - 4300 Kbps  (1920 x 1080,  1:1)
1.350 - 3000 Kbps  (1280 x  720,  1:1)
1.057 - 2350 Kbps  (1280 x  720,  1:1)
0.787 - 1750 Kbps  ( 720 x  480, 32:27)
0.472 - 1050 Kbps  ( 640 x  480,  4:3)
0.337 -  750 Kbps  ( 512 x  384,  4:3)
0.252 -  560 Kbps  ( 512 x  384,  4:3)
0.169 -  375 Kbps  ( 384 x  288,  4:3)
0.106 -  235 Kbps  ( 320 x  240,  4:3)
(The first column is GB/hour consumed at that bitrate).

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post #6756 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 09:16 PM
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Quick question. Why am I getting 1080 SD on my Sony? I thought SD was 480, and 1080 was HD? And why do we park in driveways and drive on parkways? And what if there were no hypothetical questions?

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post #6757 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Why am I getting 1080 SD on my Sony? I thought SD was 480, and 1080 was HD?
Same reason why I am getting 1080 SD on my Visio Smart TV!

However, I had known since I first saw "1080 SD" that the "SD" part was a bug (meaning, the "1080" part was correct, the "SD" part was incorrect).

My very humble setup:
Man Cave:Vizio E500i-A1 "Smart TV" (50-in 1080p 120Hz LED/LCD, has Netflix app.), Sony BDP-S3100 Blu-ray player, Roku N1000 (original model), PC (Windows 7), Comcast Internet (120Mbps/12Mbps).
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post #6758 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
AFAIK, not available in that app. CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S will get you a list of available bitrates and indicate which one is being played and which is being buffered now (you can also set a fixed bitrate on that dialog, but it will repeatedly pause and rebuffer if it can't keep up with what you choose). CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D will cover the screen with a transparent debug dialog, which will give you that information and a little more. Neither will tell you what the displayed resolution is.
Hmm...thanks. Didn't know the CTRL commands worked inside the app.
CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D showed a more abbreviated version of the overlay seen in the web browser, with CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S showing the Stream manager.
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post #6759 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Ah, you're right! We discussed that. Another semi-cosmetic change that they made to the new UI. Back when the "Super HD" label was there you could tell what the 720p-only titles were because they'd be marked simply "HD".
Former Netflix engineer here (I was one of the main developers on the TV UIs for 3 years). I want to correct a misconception here: Netflix does not (and has never) used HD vs "SuperHD" as a designation between 720p and 1080p. "SuperHD" was a marketing term to denote 1080p titles encoded at a higher bitrate than the "normal" 1080p encodes. There were a lot of reasons for this marketing that I can't discuss; however, I did want to clear that particular detail up.
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post #6760 of 7496 Old 12-08-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Former Netflix engineer here (I was one of the main developers on the TV UIs for 3 years). I want to correct a misconception here: Netflix does not (and has never) used HD vs "SuperHD" as a designation between 720p and 1080p. "SuperHD" was a marketing term to denote 1080p titles encoded at a higher bitrate than the "normal" 1080p encodes. There were a lot of reasons for this marketing that I can't discuss; however, I did want to clear that particular detail up.

Not a misconception. When Netflix announced the Super HD video encodes not nearly all HD titles had them; the Super HD label indicated which ones did and all the others continued to be labelled "HD". Most of those others had 3850 Kbps "normal" 1080p video but some had only 720p video encodes. Now that the 3850 Kbps video encodes have gone away all of the titles labelled simply "HD" in those UIs which still use the "Super HD" designation are 720p-only. Of the dozen or so devices which I own, the only one which still uses the Super HD label is the Win8 Netflix app. Using it to check through my "My List", the following movies are marked simply "HD":

  • Chasing Amy
  • The Cider House Rules
  • Emma
  • Equilibrium
  • Evita
  • An Ideal Husband
  • Leroy and Stitch
  • Life is Beautiful
  • Lilo and Stitch 2: Stitch Has a Glitch
  • Mimic
  • Mulan
  • Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl
  • Playing By Heart
  • The Prophecy
  • The Prophecy 2
  • The Prophecy 3: The Ascent
  • Reservoir Dogs
  • Rounders
  • Slingblade
  • Strictly Ballroom
  • They

All can be verified to max out at 3000 Kbps 720p by playing them and typing CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S to bring up the Stream Manager dialog which lists the bitrates of all available video encodes. None have the 4300- and 5800 Kbps 1080p video encodes. (Many titles in my queue aren't available in HD at all in the Win8 app but are HD in the device embedded ones; some of those are probably 720p-only. I've run across titles which were 720p-only on PCs which had available 1080p video encodes in device embedded players; if any of those are like that there's no easy way to tell since the elimination of the Super HD label in those players).

Technically though, you're right--Netflix has never used the "HD" label instead of the "Super HD" label to indicated that a title only had 720p video, but to indicate that it didn't have have the 4300- and 5800 Kbps "Super HD" 1080p encodes. Today, however, the only HD titles which don't have those only feature 720p HD video.

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post #6761 of 7496 Old 12-09-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark12547 View Post
Same reason why I am getting 1080 SD on my Visio Smart TV!

However, I had known since I first saw "1080 SD" that the "SD" part was a bug (meaning, the "1080" part was correct, the "SD" part was incorrect).
Not a bug. It's correct. SD means Super HD.
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post #6762 of 7496 Old 12-09-2014, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Technically though, you're right--Netflix has never used the "HD" label instead of the "Super HD" label to indicated that a title only had 720p video, but to indicate that it didn't have have the 4300- and 5800 Kbps "Super HD" 1080p encodes. Today, however, the only HD titles which don't have those only feature 720p HD video.
Fair enough; my point was really that, even if it's the case right now, it's mere happenstance due to the change in encodes and the dropping of the "SuperHD" marketing. I only wanted to point out that it wasn't the intended meaning of SuperHD to differentiate between 720 and 1080
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post #6763 of 7496 Old 12-09-2014, 09:38 AM
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The only thing I notice that is in 720p that I know of is some older Disney comedies (expiring Jan 4th I am ticked off about that). After which everything else I notice in HD is at 5800kbps but I only view it on the TV using enabled devices. If I tried the computer at least half the titles would be restricted to 720p or godawful 480p.

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post #6764 of 7496 Old 12-09-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Not a bug. It's correct. SD means Super HD.
Here was my take on SD: Netflix streaming quality


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post #6765 of 7496 Old 12-09-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Fair enough; my point was really that, even if it's the case right now, it's mere happenstance due to the change in encodes and the dropping of the "SuperHD" marketing. I only wanted to point out that it wasn't the intended meaning of SuperHD to differentiate between 720 and 1080

It's a moot point anyway--I fear that soon the "Super HD" designation will be removed from the Win8 app and there'll no longer be any way to be absolutely sure that an HD title only has 720p (well, you can play it and bring up the Stream Manager, but there's no way in the actual UI). I personally wouldn't refuse to watch a title that was 720p-only, but I'm sure that there are people who would. Poor website-player-only subs haven't had a way to determine (on the website) whether a title has any HD video for several months. They can use sites like Instantwatcher to see what's in HD, but it won't tell them if it's not in HD on PCs (other than the Stream Manager, if they're tech-savvy enough to know about it).

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post #6766 of 7496 Old 12-10-2014, 12:02 PM
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I do keep seeing the phenomenon of starting a title and it stays at 480 then stop and resume it will ramp up to 1080. I wonder that that is about?
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post #6767 of 7496 Old 12-10-2014, 06:27 PM
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Very odd but it happens to me.

Maybe they auto throttle you the first start of a flick with hopes you dont notice. If you stop and start they give you full bandwidth
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post #6768 of 7496 Old 12-10-2014, 06:46 PM
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I just did a search for Marco Polo on Netflix and I found four trailers all steaming at 4k (2160). I can't wait for the show on Friday. Netflix needs more 4K content now that Amazon is in the game.
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post #6769 of 7496 Old 12-11-2014, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
They also removed the 'Super' HD designation on the old common UI.
BTW, who's Alvin?


Ian
Thanks. I just got Netflix the other day and noticed that designation went completely MIA today. I was wondering if I did something wrong while browsing through the settings or if I was having a connection issue.
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post #6770 of 7496 Old 12-12-2014, 05:47 AM
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I've viewed a few minutes in UHD of "Marco Polo". To me (it's subjective and I'm sure some will disagree) it appears to be on a quality level with the Black List. Looks like it will be an excellent series (10 episodes are now available).
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post #6771 of 7496 Old 12-12-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
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I've viewed a few minutes in UHD of "Marco Polo". To me (it's subjective and I'm sure some will disagree) it appears to be on a quality level with the Black List. Looks like it will be an excellent series (10 episodes are now available).

I watched the first 10 minutes and I'd agree that interior shots are pretty finely detailed, though I didn't get the same jaw dropping experience as from The Blacklist. I think that problem will be that a lot more of this will be set outdoors, and in broad, panoramic exterior shots, the greater resolution loses impact. But then, I've only watched 10 minutes .

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post #6772 of 7496 Old 12-12-2014, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I watched the first 10 minutes and I'd agree that interior shots are pretty finely detailed, though I didn't get the same jaw dropping experience as from The Blacklist. I think that problem will be that a lot more of this will be set outdoors, and in broad, panoramic exterior shots, the greater resolution loses impact. But then, I've only watched 10 minutes .

It looks pretty, but I don't think it's going to win any awards, judging from the first ep.
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post #6773 of 7496 Old 12-12-2014, 07:39 PM
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Supposedly lots of sex and skin and violence. They're going for prurient appeal.

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post #6774 of 7496 Old 12-12-2014, 08:21 PM
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Supposedly lots of sex and skin and violence. They're going for prurient appeal.

Yeah - I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy...but there's just not much backing it up. I'll probably keep watching anyway as it's a time of year that's kind of between shows for me.
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post #6775 of 7496 Old 12-13-2014, 10:32 AM
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Why only 720p and DD+

I posted in the general networking forum and they suggested I ask here. I have a new Sony 5200 BDP (2014 yr) Blu-ray player. I have the video set to output whatever is coming into it, same for the Digital audio. I have the blurry player connected by Lan cable, but still am only receiving streams in 720p, never see 1080p-I gather from my searches that they are now streaming most titles in 1080p. My second question concerns the audio-I have the Blurry set to output bitrate (not PCM) so it is being decoded by my AVR (bluray is connected with HDMI to AVR). The receiver indicates Dolby Digital + (it actually shows a plus sign)-I thought that Netflix was now streaming in DD5.1 or is DD+the same??
I am new to this whole streaming thing-when I called Netflix, they said that the Sony BDP5200 supports their highest audio and video.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks
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post #6776 of 7496 Old 12-13-2014, 12:22 PM
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My experiment of the week was to get the AT&T recommended range extender the Netgear N300. Though it could keep the connection and work with everything turns out that range extenders aren't good for streaming video and will actually slow them down. The only real use for my Chromecast is the 500+ apps for it and my own software development. I get Netflix fine with the cheap (actually free) Sony S1200 and the entire episode of "Marco Polo" was 1080p. A better choice of router will probably have to wait another year until another competition comes down the street.
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post #6777 of 7496 Old 12-13-2014, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post
I posted in the general networking forum and they suggested I ask here. I have a new Sony 5200 BDP (2014 yr) Blu-ray player. I have the video set to output whatever is coming into it, same for the Digital audio. I have the blurry player connected by Lan cable, but still am only receiving streams in 720p, never see 1080p-I gather from my searches that they are now streaming most titles in 1080p. My second question concerns the audio-I have the Blurry set to output bitrate (not PCM) so it is being decoded by my AVR (bluray is connected with HDMI to AVR). The receiver indicates Dolby Digital + (it actually shows a plus sign)-I thought that Netflix was now streaming in DD5.1 or is DD+the same??
I am new to this whole streaming thing-when I called Netflix, they said that the Sony BDP5200 supports their highest audio and video.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks
Who is your ISP and what is your download speed? DD plus is backward compatible with DD. So to answer your question, yes Netflix provides it through your HDMI, but they are pretty much the same. The main difference is that DD plus supports 7.1 audio, DD only supports up to 5.1 channels.


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post #6778 of 7496 Old 12-13-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
DD plus is backward compatible with DD. So to answer your question, yes Netflix provides it through your HDMI, but they are pretty much the same. The main difference is that DD plus supports 7.1 audio, DD only supports up to 5.1 channels.

DD+ is only backward compatible with basic DD in the sense that there is a computationally lightweight algorithm for converting it into basic DD with some loss of quality; you cannot play DD+ streams on a device which only has a decoder for basic DD. DD+ is more efficient than basic DD; Dolby would claim that it delivers the same quality at one quarter the bitrate, using their latest encoders. If that claim is true, Netflix's 192 Kbps DD+ should equal basic DD at 384 Kbps (Netflix started with DD+ at 384 Kbps, at a time when Dolby was only claiming it to be twice as efficient as basic DD).

Streaming services like it because it offers more bang for the bit (literally ). Netflix, Amazon, VUDU and M-GO are all using it. Netflix on a limited set of devices streams in basic DD (Apple TV, smart TVs which have only S/PDIF and/or ARC output for their streaming apps); Amazon only recently start streaming DD+, so the set of devices for which you can get DD+ is smaller than the set on which you can get basic DD. Fire TV can be set to output either, as can most if not all BDPs.
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post #6779 of 7496 Old 12-13-2014, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
DD+ is only backward compatible with basic DD in the sense that there is a computationally lightweight algorithm for converting it into basic DD with some loss of quality; you cannot play DD+ streams on a device which only has a decoder for basic DD. DD+ is more efficient than basic DD
Thanks, I realize that Mike. We covered this subject some time ago with Roger. My point was that the audio differences are pretty much indiscernible. It's ability to support 7.1 audio should have more impact, as more of those on-line ppv titles, become available.

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Last edited by mailiang; 12-13-2014 at 08:56 PM.
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post #6780 of 7496 Old 12-13-2014, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Thanks, I realize that Mike. We covered this subject some time ago with Roger. My point was that the audio differences are pretty much indiscernible. It's ability to support 7.1 audio should have more impact, as more of those on-line ppv titles, become available.

I think that your use of the term "backward compatible" is improper. USB 3.0 is backward compatible since you can plug USB 3.0 devices into USB 2.0 connectors (if they're not USB powered), though you won't get full features. An AVR or other device with only basic DD decoding cannot be used to decode DD+. Sure, you can get pretty much the same sound out of both if you use the right bitrate for each.

I personally don't think that 7.1 sound has much of a future in streaming video. VUDU supposedly offers it (there used to be a collection but it's apparently gone), but does any other service? What portion of the streaming video consuming public has a 7.1 speaker system set up in their home? Increasingly people are going with soundbars.

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