Netflix streaming quality - Page 229 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Video Download Services & Hardware > Netflix streaming quality
mgkdragn's Avatar mgkdragn 09:49 AM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
The Google kids just don't understand "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
This is known as "Job Justificationitis" and is fairly rampant within the Tech community .. as you know ..


I was wondering if anyone experienced an interruption of PS3 / PS4 NF feeds due to the reported hack .. ?? I've not booted up and watched anything on NF the last few days ..

mgkdragn's Avatar mgkdragn 10:07 AM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post
I came to this thread since I only rent BR from NF, have found vudu hdx VQ satisfactory on my 91x51 pj screen, but not nearly as good as BR. There are some new original shows coming to NF streaming that caught my attention and was hoping for at least as good vq as I get from my FIOS for hdtv programming. Any thoughts?
Just speaking for myself, I find some, not all, of the VUDU HDX feeds approaching BD quality .. there have been a few ad hoc comparisons on AVS as well as other sites .. the main issues I've noticed on VUDU is a bit heavy use of compression, resulting in dark scenes suffering, yet bright scenes with very little action, detail levels were close to Blu-ray .. audio wise, you're not going to get BD Master Audio quality ..

I have no complaints on NF PQ or SQ based on price / value / content / quality, I can't compare to FIOS delivery, however, I'm running 100Mbps hardwired and watch at either 65" or 120" ..

They probably offer a 30 day free trial still, if you've never used the service before .. at least they used to ..
Brian Conrad's Avatar Brian Conrad 10:36 AM 12-26-2014
I watched 4 episodes of "The Honorable Woman" on NF yesterday, every one at 1080p, no problem. Thought there might be a bit more congestion due to "new players" for Christmas and people settling down to watch "something on Netflix" but not so.
scowl's Avatar scowl 10:54 AM 12-26-2014
We tried to watch a couple Netflix features on our 20 Mbs connection. We regularly got bits of dropped audio, and several times it stopped and rebuffered. This isn't acceptable in front of friends. We're sticking to mailed media.
jlanzy's Avatar jlanzy 01:01 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Just speaking for myself, I find some, not all, of the VUDU HDX feeds approaching BD quality .. there have been a few ad hoc comparisons on AVS as well as other sites .. the main issues I've noticed on VUDU is a bit heavy use of compression, resulting in dark scenes suffering, yet bright scenes with very little action, detail levels were close to Blu-ray .. audio wise, you're not going to get BD Master Audio quality ..

I have no complaints on NF PQ or SQ based on price / value / content / quality, I can't compare to FIOS delivery, however, I'm running 100Mbps hardwired and watch at either 65" or 120" ..

They probably offer a 30 day free trial still, if you've never used the service before .. at least they used to ..
I just checked and they do offer the free 30 day trial, thanks, good idea. I have a 50mb up/down speed that uses moca connection to my oppo for the NF service. If it is really that bad I guess I could wait until the series ends and it comes out on BR.
mgkdragn's Avatar mgkdragn 01:04 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post
I just checked and they do offer the free 30 day trial, thanks, good idea. I have a 50mb up/down speed that uses moca connection to my oppo for the NF service. If it is really that bad I guess I could wait until the series ends and it comes out on BR.
Your speed will be more than adequate .. let us know how it goes for you ..
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:40 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
We tried to watch a couple Netflix features on our 20 Mbs connection. We regularly got bits of dropped audio, and several times it stopped and rebuffered. This isn't acceptable in front of friends. We're sticking to mailed media.

If I may ask, what equipment were you watching it with? I can't recall ever hearing a complaint of dropped audio and it doesn't make much sense given that, at 192 Kbps max, it's the smallest portion of the stream.
scowl's Avatar scowl 01:47 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
If I may ask, what equipment were you watching it with? I can't recall ever hearing a complaint of dropped audio and it doesn't make much sense given that, at 192 Kbps max, it's the smallest portion of the stream.
TiVo Series4.

It was probably dropping frames while it was dropping the audio. A few dropped frames is not a big deal. Losing words in dialog is a big deal.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 04:18 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
TiVo Series4.

It was probably dropping frames while it was dropping the audio. A few dropped frames is not a big deal. Losing words in dialog is a big deal.
You may want to try a different steaming device, unless there is an issue with your ISP. Until recently, my download speed was less then 20mbps and I never had an issue streaming the highest quality (5800 kps) 1080p streams on my wife's Windows 8.1 PC, my Roku 2, and Panasonic smart TV. Both Panasonic BD players, Macbook and two older PC's (which use the older 720p interface) always ramp up to 720p, consistently.

Ian
scowl's Avatar scowl 04:23 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
You may want to try a different steaming device, unless there is an issue with your ISP.
Throw this one out and buy something else? Good idea! Will do...
mgkdragn's Avatar mgkdragn 04:46 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
TiVo Series4.

It was probably dropping frames while it was dropping the audio. A few dropped frames is not a big deal. Losing words in dialog is a big deal.
Did they finally build in Wi Fi .. and if so, are you using it .. ?? Or the separate wireless adapter .. ?? It's been a while since I ditched my TIVO .. they still email me and I did get a message on software version 20.4.5 that included some streaming issue corrections ..


I pretty much use PS3 or PS4 to stream NF, and when I get any frame drops, which is rare, the audio portion never drops out .. and when the frame drop corrects, the audio is still in sync ..
scowl's Avatar scowl 04:52 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Did they finally build in Wi Fi .. and if so, are you using it .. ?? Or the separate wireless adapter .. ??
No Wifi. I have Ethernet going into it.

I don't think my ISP is giving me problems:



I forgot they doubled my speed a few months ago.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 04:57 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
TiVo Series4.

It was probably dropping frames while it was dropping the audio. A few dropped frames is not a big deal. Losing words in dialog is a big deal.

By which you mean one of the TiVo Premiere models. I have a basic Premiere with PLS that I really ought to put up for sale since I replaced it with a TiVo Roamio. I don't recall that I ever had much problem with its performance running Netflix. Roamio runs the latest common Netflix UI quite smoothly, though Premiere is maybe a little underpowered for it (a friend who works on firmware at TiVo told me that a recent system update has improved it). In any case it should handle the actual streaming just fine. I never noticed a problem with it while I was using it that I can recall, but it's been a while.

My TiVo Roamio has become my primary platform for streaming Netflix, Amazon and VUDU (except for 2160p--aka "4K"--which I can only stream via my TV's internal apps) because it can output their 24p content as a 24Hz signal which my new TV can display with even pulldown and no added judder.
scowl's Avatar scowl 05:04 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Roamio runs the latest common Netflix UI quite smoothly, though Premiere is maybe a little underpowered for it (a friend who works on firmware at TiVo told me that a recent system update has improved it).
Yes, the original HD interface was completely unusable. The first thing you did was switch it back to the SD interface so you could use it. Even trivial navigation would take seconds with every button press. A year or so later they released an update. The new HD interface is still slow but at least it's usable now.

Quote:
In any case it should handle the actual streaming just fine. I never noticed a problem with it while I was using it that I can recall, but it's been a while.
I'm not going to spend any time or energy diagnosing someone's product. I never tried streaming before yesterday and it didn't work acceptably. I'll stick to old fashioned media.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 07:06 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
I'm not going to spend any time or energy diagnosing someone's product. I never tried streaming before yesterday and it didn't work acceptably. I'll stick to old fashioned media.

Alright, grandpa--for as long as they continue to make it. Soon enough it'll be like buying music on vinyl .
scowl's Avatar scowl 07:20 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Alright, grandpa--for as long as they continue to make it. Soon enough it'll be like buying music on vinyl .
We old folks really like things that work. This old man never had problems with CD's skipping!
Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C 07:37 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
No Wifi. I have Ethernet going into it.

I don't think my ISP is giving me problems:



I forgot they doubled my speed a few months ago.
May I ask, what titles were you watching when you experienced these problems?
scowl's Avatar scowl 07:40 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
May I ask, what titles were you watching when you experienced these problems?
Do you work for Netflix?
Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C 07:52 PM 12-26-2014
No. Just curious as to what titles exhibited the audio dropouts and rebuffering.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 11:01 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
Throw this one out and buy something else? Good idea! Will do...
Funny, I don't recall suggesting you throw anything out, but what's wrong with a little sarcasm. I guess if the name fits, wear it. If you change your mind about streaming, consider getting something like a Roku. They're pretty cheap and they actually work!


Ian
scowl's Avatar scowl 11:15 PM 12-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Funny, I don't recall suggesting you throw anything out, but what's wrong with a little sarcasm.
Do you keep stuff that doesn't work? In my house if it's broken, it goes!
mdavej's Avatar mdavej 07:14 AM 12-27-2014
My toaster doesn't do Netflix very well either. But it still makes great toast. So I keep it for that and use something else for Netflix rather than declare Netflix unusable.

I do like that this thread has just gotten a lot more enjoyable then it has been in months. Welcome, scowl.
reddice's Avatar reddice 11:43 AM 12-27-2014
Scowl what's your ISP?
Brian Conrad's Avatar Brian Conrad 01:15 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
We old folks really like things that work. This old man never had problems with CD's skipping!
I just turned 68 but many of us help develop today's technologies. We're not the "elderly" that our grandparents were.

That said it should just work especially if you're using Ethernet. Wifi can actually be trickier and dependent on signal strength where the player is. For instance, my gateway will only provide good signal strength up to 20 feet and my Chromecast is probably about 30 feet from it so wifi gets "iffy."

Part two depends on the title you selected. If it happened to be a "popular" title on Netflix then there may be contention for it at the servers though they seem to be improving this as time goes by. You can find folks in this thread who have good connections and were able to watch a title at 1080p all the way through but it wasn't "popular" and as soon as they selected a "popular" title had problems.
scowl's Avatar scowl 01:35 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
Part two depends on the title you selected. If it happened to be a "popular" title on Netflix then there may be contention for it at the servers though they seem to be improving this as time goes by.
I assumed Netflix is using cloud technology that allows spawning multiple servers when demand calls for it. That's what we do at work but our customers pay extra for it..

Quote:
You can find folks in this thread who have good connections and were able to watch a title at 1080p all the way through but it wasn't "popular" and as soon as they selected a "popular" title had problems.
I'm sure it works great, from time to time, and that's good enough these days.

The mindset of technology has changed over the past twenty years. When I did computer systems back then, everything had to work because we caught hell whenever our customers discovered a bug. We dedicated hundreds of man-hours testing everything before we shipped it.

My company did a survey of our customer base a couple of years ago and discovered, to our shock, that our customers who had experienced the most bugs in our software (which we fixed) had a higher opinion of our products than those who experienced fewer bugs. Those who experienced none were indifferent! We are now letting our customers do most of the testing for us so they'll like our product more.

We call this the "diving catch" phenomenon. The outfielder who strolls over and catches a ball makes it look too easy. The outfielder who was scratching himself and has to run full speed to make the catch looks like an All-Star.

This is what TiVo did. The original Premiere HD interface was useless but people are thrilled with the new interface which is barely usable. I assume they'll fix the streaming problem too and look like geniuses!
scowl's Avatar scowl 01:36 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
No. Just curious as to what titles exhibited the audio dropouts and rebuffering.
If I tell you, can you fix it for me?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 02:01 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
I just turned 68 but many of us help develop today's technologies. We're not the "elderly" that our grandparents were.

The "grandpa" remark was just teasing and not a disparagement of the old. I myself at 56 could easily be someone's grandpa .
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 02:05 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
We call this the "diving catch" phenomenon. The outfielder who strolls over and catches a ball makes it look too easy. The outfielder who was scratching himself and has to run full speed to make the catch looks like an All-Star.

This is what TiVo did. The original Premiere HD interface was useless but people are thrilled with the new interface which is barely usable. I assume they'll fix the streaming problem too and look like geniuses!

People appreciate visible efforts to fix bugs. In this age of connected devices folks rush things to market with insufficient testing because they can readily fix things later. Never a day goes by without some app or apps downloaded to my phone and/or tablet getting patched.
scowl's Avatar scowl 02:24 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
People appreciate visible efforts to fix bugs.
But not bugless software. If you don't have bugs, you weren't trying hard enough!

Quote:
In this age of connected devices folks rush things to market with insufficient testing because they can readily fix things later.
I guess my company was cutting edge. Twenty years ago every one of our customers was connected to a 9600 baud modem and received fixes from us almost every day. Our goal was to minimize this by improving our testing and shipping the best product possible. That would be a waste of resources under the new development model.

I figure that's another reason why they're trying to get rid of media. Who can get everything on a disc right the first time? No one! All those languages and captions and extra features and snazzy Javascript menus!
gwsat's Avatar gwsat 08:43 PM 12-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post
This is what TiVo did. The original Premiere HD interface was useless but people are thrilled with the new interface which is barely usable. I assume they'll fix the streaming problem too and look like geniuses!
I have had an early TiVo Premiere Elite for nearly three years and it has been wonderful. I have used its Netflix app to stream Netflix programming for several months and it has worked well. I rarely have connectivity problems and virtually everything I watch has 1080 resolution. Until Netflix did away with it, it showed most stuff as having 1080 Super HD quality.

I resisted streaming for a long time because of its inferiority to BDs but I have learned that the (slight) compromises I have to make in image and audio quality are a small price to pay for programming that I probably won't want to see but once. I still buy BDs but far fewer of them than I bought before I joined the streaming revolution.
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