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Old 03-25-2015, 02:47 PM
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I never have and never will pay to stream/download a title that I can get cheaper by renting a disc. If discs completely went away tomorrow, I still wouldn't do a digital rental at current prices. I'd wait until it came to TV or Netflix.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
You have to qualify to lease a BMW also. Plasma TV uses 3x electricity of LCD..
It's easier to quality for a lease, then buying. Plasma's do use more electricity, but when it comes to actual dollars and cents, the better PQ is worth every penny.

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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
Streaming and physical media sales/rental will strike a balance in the marketplace. Your arguments against that are are weak to non-existent.
My arguments are weak? Did you read the chart or Wall Street Journal article? We're talking about trends. When you can provide data to confirm what your saying, please, feel free to get back to me.

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Last edited by mailiang; 03-25-2015 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Seriously? Auto leasing is popular with many buyers because they can drive a car like a BMW which they couldn't afford otherwise. Disc rentals may be more affordable and offer better quality, but the convenience of downloads and streaming has become more appealing. As with CD's, there will always be a niche market for BD's, but sales and rentals are on the decline, and will unfortunately continue to lose their popularity and market share to on-line digital media. Sales of digital movies surges. Personally, I wished they still produced Plasma TV's, but their market share tanked despite offering IMO the best bang for the buck when compared to LCD's.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
You have to qualify to lease a BMW also. Plasma TV uses 3x electricity of LCD. Streaming and physical media sales/rental will strike a balance in the marketplace. Your arguments against that are are weak to non-existent.
♦ That graph (above from that first quote) is explicitly revealing, though.

* This was from the year 2012; I bet that it is even more revealing now in the year 2015.

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Old 03-25-2015, 02:59 PM
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I believe the burden would be on anyone who declares "But to rent, that's another thing." but nice try.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
I believe the burden would be on anyone who declares "But to rent, that's another thing." but nice try.
And the beat goes on.....

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Old 03-25-2015, 03:18 PM
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...This is the name of a song ♪

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Old 03-25-2015, 05:03 PM
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...This is the name of a song ♪
Indeed!





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Old 03-25-2015, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Question: Is Netflix picture anamorphic progressive or interlaced?
...When you see 480, 720, 1080 ... does it have a small "p" @ the end, like 480p, 720p, 1080p or does it have just a number (picture res) without a letter @ the end of the number?

And, where does HD start @? ...720i, 720p, 1080i or 1080p?

Last, how come they don't have DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 and/or 7.1 sound? ...Like we do on 90% of all our Blu-rays. ...Too much bandwidth required?
Anyone?

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Old 03-25-2015, 05:21 PM
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Anyone?
Streaming is done progressively and HD is considered to be 720p or higher. DTS MA requires a lot more bandwidth, a valuable commodity when it comes to digital media.


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Old 03-25-2015, 05:44 PM
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Streaming is done progressively and HD is considered to be 720p or higher. DTS MA requires a lot more bandwidth, a valuable commodity when it comes to digital media.

Ian
Ok Ian; 720p is HD. Now when you stream from Netflix, does it say 1080 or 1080p ? ...This is also what I would like to know.
Tyia

As for the audio quality; I understand...needs more bandwidth, and audio always take a back seat when you stream*...nobody cares about quality audio.

* Movies (video).

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Last edited by NorthSky; 03-25-2015 at 07:26 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:08 PM
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AFAIK, all Netflix is encoded as either 24p (the vast majority), 25p (British television) or 30p (mostly old television). How the streaming device outputs the video to your television depends both upon its capabilities and the television's; most devices are only capable of output at 60Hz and many televisions can't accept a 24Hz signal even if the device can give it one. I recently got a television which can accept a 24p signal and display it by straight frame replication (5:5 pulldown) without the judder effect some can detect in 2:3 pulldown employed to display 24p at 60Hz (even frames displayed twice, odd frames displayed 3 times or vice-versa). I'm not particularly sensitive to judder but it gives me warm fuzzies to know that the video I'm viewing isn't being subjected to 2:3 pulldown, so I'm partial to devices which can output 24p content as a 24Hz signal now, making TiVo Roamio my current favorite device for streaming Netflix, Amazon and VUDU now. My WD TV Live Streaming is my favorite device for playing 24p video from files on a USB drive.

Some small subset of titles have HD encodes but only 720p ones; most titles marked as being in HD have both.

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Old 03-25-2015, 07:30 PM
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Let say that you live in North America (Canada & USA), and you have Netflix HD. ...High Speed Internet (50-100 Mbps).

When you check info; what do you see on top...1080 or 1080p ?

Thank you very much.

~ Bob
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Let say that you live in North America (Canada & USA), and you have Netflix HD. ...High Speed Internet (50-100 Mbps).

When you check info; what do you see on top...1080 or 1080p ?

That little display (which is debugging information and not a documented part of the UI) will simply say "1080"; "P" would be redundant since the encode is always progressive. It used to say "1080 HD" (at one point "1080 Super HD"), but they removed the "HD" because it too was redundant and occasionally there'd be a bug which would get "1080 SD" displayed, causing no end of confusion and bogus complaints from people who used this unsupported feature.

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Old 03-25-2015, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
That little display (which is debugging information and not a documented part of the UI) will simply say "1080"; "P" would be redundant since the encode is always progressive. It used to say "1080 HD" (at one point "1080 Super HD"), but they removed the "HD" because it too was redundant and occasionally there'd be a bug which would get "1080 SD" displayed, causing no end of confusion and bogus complaints from people who used this unsupported feature.
Finally, thank you! ... 1080 ... and without a "p" ... and no "HD" and no "SD" either.

~ Bob
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Last edited by NorthSky; 03-25-2015 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:05 PM
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Finally, thank you! ... 1080 ... and without a "p" ... and no "HD" and no "SD" either.

Okay--why was that so important to you?

I need to take a picture of the way that looks now and put it up on Photobucket; the one that I have a link to (this) unfortunately features the "SD bug", stating "2160 SD" (as if "1080 SD" weren't confusing enough ). I can't for the life of me find another picture of the current format online.

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Old 03-25-2015, 08:14 PM
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Because one of my buddies kept asking me. ...He wasn't sure of what he was getting...into.

* By the way, your link is weird; it has some annoying add in it, like if you don't give them money they will infest you with a deadly virus!

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Last edited by NorthSky; 03-25-2015 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:19 PM
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Because one of my buddies kept asking me. ...He wasn't sure of what he was getting...into.

What? He was just seeing "1080" by itself and found that to be confusing?

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Old 03-25-2015, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
What? He was just seeing "1080" by itself and found that to be confusing?
Hey Michael, you're the expert; my friend he's just a geek who knows nothing farther than his own nose.

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Old 03-25-2015, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Hey Michael, you're the expert; my friend he's just a geek who knows nothing farther than his own nose.
Since streaming is progressive, just tell him to ignore the letters. However, since the majority of broadcasts are displayed in either 1080i, or 720p, the letter designation actually means something.



Ian
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:09 PM
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You forgot about Youtube comments. I always regret scrolling down to read them, but it's like a train wreck I can't stop looking at.
Ditto, sometimes reading YouTube & Netflix comments enable me to lmao. Actually it makes me addicted.
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Since streaming is progressive, just tell him to ignore the letters.
However, since the majority of broadcasts are displayed in either 1080i, or 720p, the letter designation actually means something.

https://youtu.be/Avvh0iH2xSg

Ian
That, right above there, in magenta color; that's all there is to know to be up there with the gods and kings from Exodus.

* "Broadcast" ... what's that; cable box/satellite TV? ...No thank you very much, this is way too "soap opera" locally advanced for me, and with Hollywood stars included in the full package, plus Poutine and Baraque @ that. ...Baraque is ok, Poutine is not ok; he is sick...needs a doc.

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Old 03-26-2015, 09:21 AM
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You have to qualify to lease a BMW also. Plasma TV uses 3x electricity of LCD. Streaming and physical media sales/rental will strike a balance in the marketplace. Your arguments against that are are weak to non-existent.
Do you believe that, let's say, in 10-15 years physical media will be anything more than a niche / boutique product, much like vinyl LP's .. ?? Or even in less than 10 years .. ??


Each generation of folks that grow into adults are the people that define the tech .. thus, that defines the progression .. IOW, it ends up being what the prime consumer demographic wants ..
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Do you believe that, let's say, in 10-15 years physical media will be anything more than a niche / boutique product, much like vinyl LP's .. ?? Or even in less than 10 years .. ??


Each generation of folks that grow into adults are the people that define the tech .. thus, that defines the progression .. IOW, it ends up being what the prime consumer demographic wants ..

It really depends on what the state of our internet is by then. I'm hoping that broadband will be in a state that allows for physical media to go away but I have my doubts.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:50 AM
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Physical media will always remain the whipping cream ... 4K --- 8K --- 16K --- 32K --- 64K ... we'll be gone, others will be here.
The Internet won't get much better, only faster, but worst with more traffic jams, and speeding tickets.

The future is expansion in a free space, away from constraints.

I think. And Netflix is no more in few years from now; another streaming service will replace it. ...With more freedom, more recent titles, more CHOICES.

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Old 03-26-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Do you believe that, let's say, in 10-15 years physical media will be anything more than a niche / boutique product, much like vinyl LP's .. ?? Or even in less than 10 years .. ??


Each generation of folks that grow into adults are the people that define the tech .. thus, that defines the progression .. IOW, it ends up being what the prime consumer demographic wants ..
You even quoted me saying pretty much exactly that. duh

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Streaming and physical media sales/rental will strike a balance in the marketplace.
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Old 03-26-2015, 10:27 AM
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It really depends on what the state of our internet is by then. I'm hoping that broadband will be in a state that allows for physical media to go away but I have my doubts.
94% of urban areas are served by at least a 25Mbps which is considered to be the baseline for the most benefits from high speed .. the problem is the lack of competition and the resulting lack of more affordable connections ..


There are also many States that, in essence, help the ISP's maintain a monopoly by prohibiting a more Community Based infrastructure ..


Since we as a Country, continue to demand real Broadband access at affordable prices, I remain hopeful that the future will eventually accommodate the consumer, as it has in areas outside the USA ..

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Old 03-26-2015, 10:33 AM
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You even quoted me saying pretty much exactly that. duh

So you agree physical media will devolve to a niche / boutique product at some point .. personally, I don't see that as a "balance" .. a balance would be some sort of equilibrium .. I guess it just depends on your definition .. if 95% of content is delivered VIA a streaming provider and 5% is physical media, I just don't see "balance"


But, to each his own ..

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Old 03-26-2015, 11:15 AM
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vinyl is a bit different because it has strong nostalgic value and the audiophile crowd is a bit more zealous (some may say crazy). BD, however, is mostly a quality play. I don't know if it will ever be cool or hip to own a BD. I don't get any warm and fuzzy feeling handling a compact disc. But that is neither here nor there. The question is will be it profitable. How large does the physical media market have to be to make producing them worthwhile.

On the other hand...

As early as a couple years ago people like Mark Cuban declared physical media dead and streaming is where it's going. People act like bandwidth follows Moore's law. But I don't think the cable and telco companies will just sit back and let people feed at their broadband trough. Expect bandwidth cap and metered usage. 4k will be over compressed just like everything that went before. ditto 8k if we ever see it in our lifetime.

Thing with physical media is it never drops and never down res because you're watching in primetime or somebody else in the house is downloading something. I guess there's also download to local storage but if you're going to wait four hours you may as well just order the disc with Amazon prime for next day delivery.
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:10 PM
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I feel the need to throw in my $.02!

Physical media IMO is on its way out for the vast majority of consumers. As I talk to my friends and co-workers about the content that they consume... a vast majority of them utilize Netflix, Hulu and/or Amazon Instant Video. Very few if any of them purchase BD media. For the very few that do utilize physical media they generally rent from Red Box and do NOT care about quality so opt for DVD's instead. The persons that utilize Netflix don't care about quality either.

Basically out of the hundreds of people that I interact with and have had the "what's your hobby" conversation with... none if any care about quality. It looks like "I" or "us" (AVS members) are the "less than 1% that care." With that being said, why would physical media stick around? Bandwidth is acceptable... my 4G LTE phone can do 25mbps down just fine. That is as good as practically every BD I own. If 4k is encoded to HEVC as I guarantee it eventually will be then bandwidth really wouldn't have to increase that much to facilitate it. As bandwidth increases and the compression quality increases and the bitrate increases all will be practically the same... nothing changes.

Everybody has a smart phone and/or smart TV. Practically everyone that has a smart TV pays the cable company for some sort of internet service (whether it is the promo 25mbps or 50mbps very few care and can even specify... people in suburbia have internet). EVERYONE that has a smart phone has a data plan and utilizes all sorts of means to obtain WIFI connections to stream their media. My point is that streaming media is the future of content consumption .(period!)

I just vacationed with several women (wife, sister, sister in law, etc.) that all had their tablets streaming their favorite Netflix shows... they all utilized the hotspots that were readily available (ATT, Xfinity hotspot, etc.) even grandma watched her favorite Netflix show (surprisingly she hardly knows how to check her email but absolutely can navigate Netflix).

There are no bandwidth restrictions... yeah maybe for farmer Joe but in a big urban area where 99% of America lives there is virtually a limitless ability to connect, stream, download, consume....

DVD is dead... Blu Ray is going to be a thing of the past. It might be 10 years but I would put money on it that it'll be a lot sooner!
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Old 03-26-2015, 01:12 PM
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Back in the day (the 1990s) when the Grand Alliance was sorting out things the standard was going be something like what Japan had which was analog HD then MIT came along and suggested MPEG encoding. So then 1080i was the deal but then Microsoft suggested 720p be supported too. Then by the time DVDs came out there were 480p players which were initially blocked by the big studios for some insane reason. Now it's hard to get a player that outputs at 1080i which means that a lot of those old RP HD sets are worthless (like the one sitting in my garage I can't even give away).

BTW, the original DV codec (my first DV camera was a Sony PC7) also had the spec for Japanese HD at 1125 lines. And we have the little kerfuffle over on the Sony BD player thread about BD streams which for some reason the m2ts container may have PAL and NTSC flags and probably why Sony players are able to reject BD discs without region codes. Sony clearly states their players won't play PAL BDs in the US. Muxers I've used for BD-ROM discs (BD format on a DVD) have NTSC or PAL options even for 1080p. Probably legacy.
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