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post #7921 of 8318 Old 01-13-2016, 02:53 PM
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Sorry I opened a can or worms but to tell the truth I never though Netflix rating system was accurate with recommendations. I still get stuff I hate like stand up mature rated comedies for example if I watch one episode and/or rate Futurama with is TV-14 which really should be PG. Other services like YouTube and Play Music are much better at first they suggested a lot of rap music but after much not interested and listing to music I love which took months it recommends 90% of content I like. Netflix still shoves much content I hate as I have more zero star not interested ratings than 4 to 5 star ratings but it just does not work good and I been rating things since 2010 how long I been a subscriber.

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post #7922 of 8318 Old 01-13-2016, 04:24 PM
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The Test Pattern videos contain a wide variety of frame rates, from 23.976 to 60 fps. The video shows the exact stream speed, color bit and resolution in real time, as it ramps up (or down).


These files are what have convinced me that my ISP (CenturyLink) is throttling my speed to Netflix, but not other online sources. I can watch a full UHD video on YouTube and see how quickly it will ramp up to over 30 Mbps. Amazon provides me UND resolution within 10-15 seconds. With Netflix, I have trouble passing 5-6 Mbps, which often keeps me at 720. I've confirmed it's my ISP by using my phone as a hotspot. With my AT&T 4G connection, Netflix ramps up to 8000 Mbps or higher within seconds. This proves it is not my network, Netflix, or the app on the TV. It can only be the ISP.
Got a call from a CL engineer this morning. What do you know, they think they found something that might be throttling Netflix . He had admitted to me yesterday that he's heard this complaint before, so I give them credit for continuing to search. I'll watch something this even and see if they've made any changes.

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post #7923 of 8318 Old 01-14-2016, 03:38 PM
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Anyone having trouble as a result of this move by Netflix?

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post #7924 of 8318 Old 01-14-2016, 03:38 PM
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Anyone having trouble as a result of this move by Netflix?

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post #7925 of 8318 Old 01-14-2016, 05:29 PM
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Anyone having trouble as a result of this move by Netflix?

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Thus far its not stopping the service that I'm using. It wouldn't bug me too much if I did lose the use of it. I probably don't use it enough to justify the cost.
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post #7926 of 8318 Old 01-15-2016, 12:26 PM
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Since I watch Netflix mainly on my Android Shield TV, I wrote a little app that lets me see how much data usage occurs when I watch something on Netlfix. It confirmed I was getting the 5 mbps HD stream. For Hulu it was showing above 4 mbps which is interesting and I'll check on some more shows. Might confirm my suspicions that some devices are getting 1080p on Hulu.

For some reason and it might be an Android TV thing in general, unlike other Android devices there is no data stats in Settings.
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post #7927 of 8318 Old 01-15-2016, 12:32 PM
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Since I watch Netflix mainly on my Android Shield TV, I wrote a little app that lets me see how much data usage occurs when I watch something on Netlfix. It confirmed I was getting the 5 mbps HD stream. For Hulu it was showing above 4 mbps which is interesting and I'll check on some more shows. Might confirm my suspicions that some devices are getting 1080p on Hulu.

For some reason and it might be an Android TV thing in general, unlike other Android devices there is no data stats in Settings.
Can you give an example I could check?
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post #7928 of 8318 Old 01-15-2016, 01:01 PM
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I thought that the HD stream for Hulu has always been 3.5 Mbps (as indicated on the picture quality control of some players).

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post #7929 of 8318 Old 01-15-2016, 02:13 PM
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Can you give an example I could check?
On Android phones and tables you should set Data Usage listed under Settings right below WiFi or BlueTooth. If you don't see that in Settings then they didn't make it available on Android TV. It's not on my Shield TV but there is a Network monitor option under Developer but that might not be so handy as an actual app which like mine records the number of bytes used when you leave and when you run it again such as after a show loads it and subtracts it from the current number of bytes received.

I suspect if I rummage around on Android support forums and their Plus thing (ick!) maybe they give the reason which is probably more than one person using the device and it's done for privacy between users.
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post #7930 of 8318 Old 01-15-2016, 02:19 PM
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On Android phones and tables you should set Data Usage listed under Settings right below WiFi or BlueTooth. If you don't see that in Settings then they didn't make it available on Android TV. It's not on my Shield TV but there is a Network monitor option under Developer but that might not be so handy as an actual app which like mine records the number of bytes used when you leave and when you run it again such as after a show loads it and subtracts it from the current number of bytes received.

I suspect if I rummage around on Android support forums and their Plus thing (ick!) maybe they give the reason which is probably more than one person using the device and it's done for privacy between users.
Thanks. Guess I should have been more specific. Can you list a Hulu title (hopefully a subscription-free one) that you suspect is 1080p so I can test it on another device. I don't have any of the devices you mentioned. I'll leave the bitrate measurements to you.

EDIT: In Google searches, I do see Hulu rips of The Mindy Project claiming to be 1080p. I'll try one of those.

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post #7931 of 8318 Old 01-16-2016, 12:27 PM
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Thanks. Guess I should have been more specific. Can you list a Hulu title (hopefully a subscription-free one) that you suspect is 1080p so I can test it on another device. I don't have any of the devices you mentioned. I'll leave the bitrate measurements to you.

EDIT: In Google searches, I do see Hulu rips of The Mindy Project claiming to be 1080p. I'll try one of those.
May really depend on the device. According to this (very technical) article they tend to role out improvements first on Chromecast devices and second on Sony (I have both). "Shades of Blue" (no ads) I watched last night came in at a little of 1.2 GB which computed to a little over 4 mbps. A little high for 720p.

http://www.streamingmediaglobal.com/...SH-105110.aspx
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post #7932 of 8318 Old 01-16-2016, 01:41 PM
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Is the Hulu UI on the device that you're using this one?

Spoiler!


If so, can you get to a "Quality" setting during playback? (On TiVo it's UP, UP to a row of options). That UI on TiVo Bolt, which is a brand-spanking new app (supposedly HTML5 replacing the horrible older UI which was Flash-based), shows me 3.2 Mbps as the highest selectable quality ("Auto" is the default); if you can access that on the app where you're seeing 4+ Mbps average, do you see something different?

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post #7933 of 8318 Old 01-16-2016, 01:46 PM
 
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is the Netflix HD any good?
Real decent at their best 1080p bitrate (very good) so is the Netflix 4K their best 1080p often looks better than Dish TV 720p/1080i

ofc.my ISP has a direct connection arrangement w/ Netflix so it works well here .


OT but 4K HDR UHD BD is going to be good (the best) !




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post #7934 of 8318 Old 01-17-2016, 11:06 AM
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Watching Arrow, the Flash , and Grimm through Hulu via my Fire TV or PS4, the picture is so good on my 120" screen I'd be extremely surprised if it wasn't 1080p. I've never seen 720p look that good before.
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post #7935 of 8318 Old 01-17-2016, 12:33 PM
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Is the Hulu UI on the device that you're using this one?

Spoiler!


If so, can you get to a "Quality" setting during playback? (On TiVo it's UP, UP to a row of options). That UI on TiVo Bolt, which is a brand-spanking new app (supposedly HTML5 replacing the horrible older UI which was Flash-based), shows me 3.2 Mbps as the highest selectable quality ("Auto" is the default); if you can access that on the app where you're seeing 4+ Mbps average, do you see something different?
Mike, please read the link to the article I posted. In fact Chromecast enabled devices will have new interfaces before anyone. If Hulu is streaming 1080p then they won't announce it until everyone can have it. They are switching from their old methods to DASH but it's easier to implement that on Android devices first (again just READ the article). They have to compete in the market so 1080p is important. Many of the movies they have on EPIX have 1080p source and probably even some 4K (which I suspect Hulu will eventually have too).
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post #7936 of 8318 Old 01-17-2016, 12:48 PM
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I was simply interested in whether the interface had been changed to reflect a new higher than 720p encode being available. It hadn't occurred to me but I haven't checked that out on my FTV Stick.

And why wouldn't Hulu announce 1080p availability before "everyone" can have it? I doubt that they can update their player apps in a large percentage of devices, and I'd wager that Joe Average couldn't give a lesser damn. Netflix used to always introduce new features on PS3 first, including 1080p and 5.1 sound.

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post #7937 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
May really depend on the device. According to this (very technical) article they tend to role out improvements first on Chromecast devices and second on Sony (I have both). "Shades of Blue" (no ads) I watched last night came in at a little of 1.2 GB which computed to a little over 4 mbps. A little high for 720p.

http://www.streamingmediaglobal.com/...SH-105110.aspx
Brian, you've been heralding the fact that 1080p exists on Hulu for well over a year. Yet here we are in January 2016 and Hulu still only admits to 720p. Why is that?

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post #7938 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 08:57 AM
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Netflix still shoves much content I hate as I have more zero star not interested ratings than 4 to 5 star ratings but it just does not work good and I been rating things since 2010 how long I been a subscriber.
Question .. since I never really thought of this before .. do you rate shows you have not and do not intend to watch .. ?? I've personally never considered rating anything I have not seen, however, if I did, would that further fine tune my recommendations .. ??


Anyone feel free to chime in .. I'm not really unhappy with what NF recommends, having been a subscriber for about 14 years and have rated everything I've watched .. I'm just curious if rating things you don't watch is done by anyone ..

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post #7939 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 09:04 AM
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Brian, you've been heralding the fact that 1080p exists on Hulu for well over a year. Yet here we are in January 2016 and Hulu still only admits to 720p. Why is that?
Amazon did the same thing. I also Googled it which was a waste of time as usual. My eyes can easily tell the difference between 720p and 1080p so trust me I know when and if they upgrade to 1080p. As for Hulu I have seen it first on the Apple TV.

Quote:
Question .. since I never really thought of this before .. do you rate shows you have not and do not intend to watch .. ?? I've personally never considered rating anything I have not seen, however, if I did, would that further fine tune my recommendations .. ??
Don't get me started. I rated everything Mature rating not interested. No big deal except when Netflix still shoves that crap as spotlight recommendations when I open the app. So to answer you question rating is a waste of time. I would not bother.

Update: Just went into my rate history and I can longer rate something not interested. Just 1 to 5 stars. Come on Netflix. What is wrong with you.

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post #7940 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 09:44 AM
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Don't get me started. I rated everything Mature rating not interested. No big deal except when Netflix still shoves that crap as spotlight recommendations when I open the app. So to answer you question rating is a waste of time. I would not bother.

Update: Just went into my rate history and I can longer rate something not interested. Just 1 to 5 stars. Come on Netflix. What is wrong with you.

Would not giving something a One Star be an even better indicator than Not Interested .. ?? Theoretically, the ratings system per each account holder is supposed to select things similar to what you give a high rating to and reject low star rated material .. no .. ??

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post #7941 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 10:06 AM
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Would not giving something a One Star be an even better indicator than Not Interested .. ?? Theoretically, the ratings system per each account holder is supposed to select things similar to what you give a high rating to and reject low star rated material .. no .. ??
I thought so too. Just I remember on other services like Play Music giving a Not Interested gave me better recommendations over time.

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post #7942 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 10:46 AM
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So to summarize, you guys are saying Hulu is now 1080p because it "looks really good" on Apple TV, Chromecast and Fire TV, and you're getting a 4 Mbps bitrate? Do any of those have any sort of diagnostic info you can use to confirm? Does Hulu have any test videos like Netflix that show the resolution and bitrate? Michael Scott, what are you seeing on your Tivo with Hulu and 1080p pass-thru?

I'd test all of this myself, but I'd forgotten that I put my account on hold for several months.
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post #7943 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 11:15 AM
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Hulu looks very good but it's always looked good to me. I don't have firmware in my current router with which to measure actual average bit rates (it's an ASUS router for which there are versions of Tomato and other such but I've been too lazy and chicken to install it). TiVo Bolt has a brand new HTML5 implementation of Hulu's most recent embedded UI, but it lists 3.2 Mbps as the highest bit rate encode of everything I've tried. I've been meaning to check it out on my FTV Stick.

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post #7944 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 11:20 AM
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So to summarize, you guys are saying Hulu is now 1080p because it "looks really good" on Apple TV, Chromecast and Fire TV, and you're getting a 4 Mbps bitrate? Do any of those have any sort of diagnostic info you can use to confirm? Does Hulu have any test videos like Netflix that show the resolution and bitrate? Michael Scott, what are you seeing on your Tivo with Hulu and 1080p pass-thru?

I'd test all of this myself, but I'd forgotten that I put my account on hold for several months.
I'm an Android developer so I wrote an Android TV app for my NVidia Shield TV to see if I could get the amount of data transferred. Other Android devices have a listing for Data Usage under Settings but it is missing from Android TV.

There is a function that shows total bytes received one can use to do this. It shows the total bytes presumably since the device was powered up (it's always on standby). The app saves the current value on exit and when run again gives the difference between the previous value and the current one. So when run after a show you can see how much in megabytes was transferred for a show. A little math and you can get the megabits per second.

I'm seeing 4 mbps on some but Sunday night can be iffy and last night there was even rebuffering and a couple failure messages on Hulu's "Billionaire". Probably post football streaming contention. So no 4 mbps there. Episodes of shows I watched on Netflix afterward were 5.x mbps and SuperHD.

Like Reddice said one can tell the difference between 1080p and 720p. Most got used to this between watching HD on broadcast TV with Fox and ABC being 720 and NBC and CBS 1080. If you work with video the difference becomes even more apparent.

If you read the article you would see that Hulu's chief tech is doing things on Chromecast devices first. Business-wise it would probably not be a good idea to announce 1080p until it's available on all devices which can be updated to support it.

Unfortunately Michael seems to have the new UI but NOT the new player API. Sometime last year they dropped showing bitrate settings with options. That was even announced. I checked it on the the app last night to be sure.
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post #7945 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 11:23 AM
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Hulu has always looked good to me too, but never 1080p good. Hulu gets asked about 1080p a lot on facebook but never answers. I equate their silence on the issue to a No. I'll believe it when they say so or when there is some conclusive data.
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post #7946 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 11:44 AM
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Question .. since I never really thought of this before .. do you rate shows you have not and do not intend to watch .. ?? I've personally never considered rating anything I have not seen, however, if I did, would that further fine tune my recommendations .. ??


Anyone feel free to chime in .. I'm not really unhappy with what NF recommends, having been a subscriber for about 14 years and have rated everything I've watched .. I'm just curious if rating things you don't watch is done by anyone ..
I rate stuff I have not watched on Netflix but have seen elsewhere. Netflix actually asked me to do just that when I signed up so it could start using its magical algorithms to recommend stuff to me. I have rated several things as not interested that I have not seen though.

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post #7947 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 12:46 PM
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I commented earlier on how I thought Hulu was 1080p on my Fire TV and PS4 based on how it looks. I'll back that up again and make a note that my TiVo Roamio with the old Hulu app doesn't look nearly as good, clearly HD but not 1080p HD good like my other devices.
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post #7948 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
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Amazon did the same thing. I also Googled it which was a waste of time as usual. My eyes can easily tell the difference between 720p and 1080p so trust me I know when and if they upgrade to 1080p. As for Hulu I have seen it first on the Apple TV.
I'm not interested in your subjective eyeballing of resolution, I would like definitive proof of 1080p bit-streaming rates. Much like Michael the best streaming rates I have ever seen on Hulu is 3.2 Mbps...which is a decent speed for 720p. Hulu has always looked good on my system whether using my Roku3, Apple TV 3 or Tivo Roamio...and this is on a Panasonic 1080p front projector with 120" screen.

As far as Amazon 1080p is concerned I was one of the first to post proof that they were streaming at 10+ Mbps. It was not a subjective opinion.
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post #7949 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
Business-wise it would probably not be a good idea to announce 1080p until it's available on all devices which can be updated to support it.

Netflix has never been shy about that and its business is arguably more successful than Hulu's (or than Hulu's can ever hope to be in their wildest dreams). Since they got the installed player on PS3 they've premiered new features on it--though that may no longer be true--and proudly proclaimed them in PRs and on their blog. PS3 had 1080p video and DD+ 5.1 sound for several months before any other device got them (Roku 2XS/XD were next, I believe). They were very proud to announce having those features at all as soon as they had them on any platform. Of course, PS3 was an extremely popular platform which is why they used it, but not more popular than the $35 Chromecast has to be (I may buy one of those to piss around with for sh*ts and giggles; it is really, really annoying that you can't get them from Amazon anymore ).

I checked all my devices with the latest Hulu UI (TiVo Bolt, Xbox One, Roku 3, Fire TV Stick and this smart TV's app) and only TiVo had the feature allowing it to turn adaptive off and select a fixed encode, displaying a list of encodes to choose from (like Netflix on PCs). If I had to make an eyeball guess it'd be that they're all displaying 720p, including FTV Stick.

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post #7950 of 8318 Old 01-18-2016, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Netflix has never been shy about that and its business is arguably more successful than Hulu's (or than Hulu's can ever hope to be in their wildest dreams). Since they got the installed player on PS3 they've premiered new features on it--though that may no longer be true--and proudly proclaimed them in PRs and on their blog. PS3 had 1080p video and DD+ 5.1 sound for several months before any other device got them (Roku 2XS/XD were next, I believe). They were very proud to announce having those features at all as soon as they had them on any platform. Of course, PS3 was an extremely popular platform which is why they used it, but not more popular than the $35 Chromecast has to be (I may buy one of those to piss around with for sh*ts and giggles; it is really, really annoying that you can't get them from Amazon anymore ).

I checked all my devices with the latest Hulu UI (TiVo Bolt, Xbox One, Roku 3, Fire TV Stick and this smart TV's app) and only TiVo had the feature allowing it to turn adaptive off and select a fixed encode, displaying a list of encodes to choose from (like Netflix on PCs). If I had to make an eyeball guess it'd be that they're all displaying 720p.
Companies take different release strategies. I learned this being a technical director for a major game company. They have their test periods, sometimes signing up people with NDAs so they can get some test results. I have my doubts that Netflix announced anything before it was truly ready. In fact I find their strategy different from Hulu.

If you read the article then you'd know Hulu is dumping fixed encodes. That's an old legacy technology. So your Tivo probably doesn't have very good developer support. Android devices have tons of it and I know from developing for the Sony PSP that their video API provides a lot of low level support. Baptiste Coudurier, Hulu's OTT, mentions he likes Sony's support too. So you are going to see things first there. That's why though you doubted I was seeing 1080p on my Sony 480 I found I was. Then I got a Sony 1200 which had the new UI which could display the resolution stats. That helped confirm what I was seeing via visual judgment was correct.

Way back in fall 2013 when I got my new set and a Chromecast Hulu were showing targeted ads on breaks. The show would definitely be 720p but for some reason some of the ads would freeze and buffer. That's because they were targeted but more so like the Ford ad shot locally had a disclaimer in fine print at the end. You could read the fine print at 1080p but it was a blur at 720p.

If a scene is shot outdoors and brightly lit using a long DOF lens then the leaves on trees way in the background show clearly 1080 whereas they will be a blur on 720. Fine weaves on clothes will also show clearly at 1080 but not so much at 720. Some of these things can't be added through upscaling. You also need to realize some shows are soft shot meaning they'll not look much different at 1080p than 720p.

Along with that Chromecast maybe you should pick up a 4K consumer camera. The download avconv and learn to re-encode at different resolutions to see the result. At 4K you will have an excellent master. The upgrade on my 3D graphics program now does 4K so I posted a holiday video on YouTube using the 4K version as master.

Besides if 720p is fine at 3.2 mbps why stream it at 4.x mbps?
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