Netflix streaming quality - Page 280 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #8371 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 12:31 PM
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125mbps?

Does the debug popup confirm you get 2160p?
Yep.
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post #8372 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 12:33 PM
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The Netflix highest UHD streaming bitrate is only 16Mb/s.
Understood. I gave my provider's download speed in order to confirm that I am receiving whatever bandwidth Netflix uses for transmission.
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post #8373 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
The Netflix highest UHD streaming bitrate is only 16Mb/s.

And the 940D should have access to the Netflix HDR content. I know I do on my 2015 Sony 850C.
Thanks. I think the reason I wasn't overly impressed by how the first episode of Marco Polo looked may have been that all of the outdoor scenes were filmed either under heavy cloud cover or in the dark. The interior scenes were mostly also darkly lighted. In stark contrast, Marcella was filmed in London and contained many aerial shots of streets and traffic, which had a jewel like beauty. Also, a lot of the outdoor shots were shot in the early morning or late afternoon during "magic time." Under the circumstances, I am just going to accept that Marco Polo on Netflix is in HDR as advertised.
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post #8374 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 01:26 PM
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Understood. I gave my provider's download speed in order to confirm that I am receiving whatever bandwidth Netflix uses for transmission.
That does not matter much when Blu-ray can be up to 50 Mbps let alone 2160 HDR.
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post #8375 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 03:15 PM
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That does not matter much when Blu-ray can be up to 50 Mbps let alone 2160 HDR.
My point was that I have been receiving whatever Netflix was streaming at Netflix's highest bitrate. It is a given that no streaming input can provide anything like the information available on a disc, be it audio or video. For example, that's why lossless audio, DTS MA and TrueHD, can't be streamed.
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post #8376 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 03:29 PM
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My point was that I have been receiving whatever Netflix was streaming at Netflix's highest bitrate.
And my point is you maxed out right there. Don't expect HDR to look any better.
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post #8377 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 03:54 PM
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And my point is you maxed out right there. Don't expect HDR to look any better.
UHD looks beautiful in Marcella, Daredevil, Orange is the New Black, and other Netflix UHD titles. Thus, I don't think the blame for how ordinary (invisible?) the HDR in Marco Polo was can be placed on a shortage of bandwidth. Compared to other streamed titles, the UHD was inferior too. We agree that streaming has limitations but that's not the issue here, or so it seems to me.
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post #8378 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 03:58 PM
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16Mb/s = compression = pic can only be so good. Netflix does the best they can making streaming choices but again - 16Mb/s = limitations.
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post #8379 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 04:10 PM
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16Mb/s = compression = pic can only be so good. Netflix does the best they can making streaming choices but again - 16Mb/s = limitations.
Couldn't agree more. All things considered, the quality of the UHD that Netflix provides is almost a miracle. I have a number of uncompressed UHD films. How close Netflix UHD comes to their quality is remarkable.

I think the biggest weakness of any streamed content is its lack of lossless audio. For example, Dolby TrueHD Atmos is pretty sweet and we're not going to get it via streaming.
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post #8380 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 04:33 PM
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I believe the point here is, that do to compression limitations, if you want to see the biggest impact of HDR you need to go to Blu-Ray. Unfortunately, do to cost, limited player availability, and practicality, (You can't rent UHD BD's from the likes of Netflix..) it may not be a viable option at this time, for even the most discerning viewer.

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Last edited by mailiang; 08-09-2016 at 04:36 PM.
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post #8381 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Do to compression limitations, if you want to see the biggest impact of HDR you need to go to Blu-Ray. Unfortunately, do to cost, limited player availability, and practicality, (You can't rent UHD BD's from the likes of Netflix etc..) it may not be a viable option at this time, for even the most discerning viewer.
You are preaching to the choir. When I upgraded my HT system lately, I went old man crazy and bought a Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server. It allows me to buy and download files that are exact copies of UHD and Blu ray movies, including their lossless audio tracks. Kscape does not yet offer films with either UHD plus HDR video or Dolby TrueHD Atmos audio. That is supposed to be coming soon though. The downloaded files are identical to those the studios use to make both BD and UHD quality discs. Hoping Kscape rolls out the upgrade soon. In the meantime even HDR video with DTS MA 5.1 audio is pretty sweet. Also, a number of BD titles with TrueHD Atmos audio are currently available.
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post #8382 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 06:26 PM
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From what I can find, additional bandwidth for HDR metadata is variable, up to 25%, typically 10-15%. So that 16 Mbps becomes 20 Mbps; big whoop.

I haven't seen HDR but the impression that I get is that 1080p w/HDR would be impressively superior to 4K video without it. Nearly 2 years after buying my non-HDR 4K TV I've seen almost nothing in 4K which particularly impressed me. It's like the emperor's new clothes; we should stop wasting bandwidth on it.

I get a new Xbox One S at the end of the month, capable of playing UHD BDs (with HDR10, but my current TV can't display that). Maybe those will impress me, though I don't hold out much hope.

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post #8383 of 8453 Old 08-09-2016, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
From what I can find, additional bandwidth for HDR metadata is variable, up to 25%, typically 10-15%. So that 16 Mbps becomes 20 Mbps; big whoop.

I haven't seen HDR but the impression that I get is that 1080p w/HDR would be impressively superior to 4K video without it. Nearly 2 years after buying my non-HDR 4K TV I've seen almost nothing in 4K which particularly impressed me. It's like the emperor's new clothes; we should stop wasting bandwidth on it.

I get a new Xbox One S at the end of the month, capable of playing UHD BDs (with HDR10, but my current TV can't display that). Maybe those will impress me, though I don't hold out much hope.
I have really been enjoying UHD, although as noted in some of my earlier posts here, the one HDR title I have seen, Marco Polo on Netflix, didn't do much for me. Tonight I am watching Funny Girl in UHD. It is a revelation. I have never seen the film look this good since my wife and I saw the film in the theater in the 60s. The soundtrack shows its age a bit but it looks startlingly wonderful. I watched the restored edition of Lawrence of Arabia in UHD last week and was simply blown away. The images in the desert that David Lean captured have to be seen to be believed.
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post #8384 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 11:19 AM
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What follows is an update of my impressions of Netflix’s rendition of Marco Polo in 4K HDR. Upon mature reflection, after having watched the first five episodes of Season 1, I can see the difference. Interior scenes, which have outdoor light filtering in through a window or lighting a stained glass window, are particularly beautiful. That sort of thing is subtle and it has taken until today for my untutored eyes to see the improvements HDR provides. The only negative is the subtitles, which I use because of all the foreign accents. They are white and so dazzlingly bright, they can be distracting when superimposed on an otherwise dark image. It’s a small price to pay though.
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post #8385 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 11:22 AM
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I have really been enjoying UHD, although as noted in some of my earlier posts here, the one HDR title I have seen, Marco Polo on Netflix, didn't do much for me. Tonight I am watching Funny Girl in UHD. It is a revelation. I have never seen the film look this good since my wife and I saw the film in the theater in the 60s. The soundtrack shows its age a bit but it looks startlingly wonderful. I watched the restored edition of Lawrence of Arabia in UHD last week and was simply blown away. The images in the desert that David Lean captured have to be seen to be believed.


Did you buy Lawrence of Arabia, or rent? I've only seen it for purchase.
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post #8386 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 11:32 AM
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Did you buy Lawrence of Arabia, or rent? I've only seen it for purchase.
It was on Netflix for a while in UHD (I watched it there, but of course no HDR), but now I've only seen it for sale on Amazon. The amount of UHD available via Amazon Prime is lacking to say the least, and the purchase price is ridiculous.

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post #8387 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 12:14 PM
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Did you buy Lawrence of Arabia, or rent? I've only seen it for purchase.
I recently upgraded my HT system. I bought a Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV and a Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server at the same time from a local AV dealer who installed them along with the rest of my new components. I got 5 free UHD films for my Kscape movie library but don’t know whether I got them because of the Sony TV or the Strato. I don’t own a UHD disc player so the only UHD films I have available are those in the Kscape Movie store. So far there are “only” 140 UHD titles available there but more are reportedly on the way. Of course, going forward I will have to buy the titles I didn’t get as the result of the promotion. So far I am pretty happy with Kscape. I have over a hundred BD quality films in my UltraViolet library because of BDs I bought earlier I can download and watch most of them on my Strato at no charge. Bottom line: I won’t be running out of movies to watch in the near future.
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post #8388 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 01:07 PM
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OK, I have seen it on Amazon or Vudu but only for sale. Just wondered.
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post #8389 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 01:35 PM
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OK, I have seen it on Amazon or Vudu but only for sale. Just wondered.
Yeah, I went a little old age crazy with the Kscape Strato. It's not exactly mainstream. Still, I have been enjoying the 4K stuff on Netflix and hope to see them add more of it with HDR.
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post #8390 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 01:55 PM
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It was on Netflix for a while in UHD (I watched it there, but of course no HDR), but now I've only seen it for sale on Amazon. The amount of UHD available via Amazon Prime is lacking to say the least, and the purchase price is ridiculous.


Right. I canceled Prime yesterday. I don't care about Amazon shipping. I just wanted 4K, and wow it's a joke. They should be embarrassed.
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post #8391 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 02:02 PM
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Right. I canceled Prime yesterday. I don't care about Amazon shipping. I just wanted 4K, and wow it's a joke. They should be embarrassed.
The shipping alone pays for itself for us. The Prime streaming is just gravy. But yeah, Prime 4K is almost all their own developed shows, which hold no interest for me. They have a number of movies I'd watch under the paid section, but the prices are too high for a streaming only solution.

Besides, my 4K set is only 55", so it's not like I can easily see the difference
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post #8392 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 02:20 PM
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The shipping alone pays for itself for us. The Prime streaming is just gravy. But yeah, Prime 4K is almost all their own developed shows, which hold no interest for me. They have a number of movies I'd watch under the paid section, but the prices are too high for a streaming only solution.

Besides, my 4K set is only 55", so it's not like I can easily see the difference
You beat me to it. Although Amazon's 4K streaming lineup is remarkably weak when you get beyond its Amazon Originals, the free shipping and 2 day delivery for orders is a far more important perq for most of us than its 4K quality offerings are.
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post #8393 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 02:56 PM
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If my college kids didn't get it half price, I wouldn't bother either. I rarely actually get the promised 2-day shipping and tend to buy enough per order to get free shipping anyway. The quality of titles in their non-4K catalog is very weak as well. Netflix is a much better service and better value.
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post #8394 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 03:19 PM
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The only negative is the subtitles, which I use because of all the foreign accents. They are white and so dazzlingly bright, they can be distracting when superimposed on an otherwise dark image.

You can adjust the subtitle rendition on this page at Netflix. I believe that you can set it per-profile. I use the small Console san-serif font, in yellow with transparent window and background and a black drop shadow. I always have subtitles enabled, because it doesn't bother me and I'd occasionally otherwise miss something.
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post #8395 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 03:33 PM
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The quality of titles in their non-4K catalog is very weak as well. Netflix is a much better service and better value.
Personal preference is always a poor argument. For example I find their offerings quite attractive. BTW the awards score this year -

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post #8396 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 04:12 PM
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You are preaching to the choir. When I upgraded my HT system lately, I went old man crazy and bought a Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server. It allows me to buy and download files that are exact copies of UHD and Blu ray movies, including their lossless audio tracks. Kscape does not yet offer films with either UHD plus HDR video or Dolby TrueHD Atmos audio. That is supposed to be coming soon though. The downloaded files are identical to those the studios use to make both BD and UHD quality discs. Hoping Kscape rolls out the upgrade soon. In the meantime even HDR video with DTS MA 5.1 audio is pretty sweet. Also, a number of BD titles with TrueHD Atmos audio are currently available.
But it ain't cheap.

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post #8397 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 04:31 PM
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But it ain't cheap.
Like I said, I went old age crazy. Besides, whoever claimed that this hobby was rational?

More seriously, I have really been getting a lot of benefit from my Strato. Another important benefit was that when I bought it plus a high end Sony 4K HDR TV and a Crestron control system from my AV guy, I could depend on getting high end customer service. So far at least, it has all worked out well.

What I have done with my HT system upgrades reminds me of a Greyhound bus size RV that I used to see at every football game in Norman. It had an attractive desert landscape painted on its side, overlain with script, which read, "It seemed like the thing to do at the time."
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post #8398 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
You can adjust the subtitle rendition on this page at Netflix. I believe that you can set it per-profile. I use the small Console san-serif font, in yellow with transparent window and background and a black drop shadow. I always have subtitles enabled, because it doesn't bother me and I'd occasionally otherwise miss something.
Mike -- Fortunately, the subtitles are too intense only when I am watching Marco Polo. I am as certain as I can be that their extreme brightness is a side effect of HDR. Nothing else I have watched on Netflix has exhibited the problem. That being the case, I think I'll leave well enough alone for the time being.
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post #8399 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 05:07 PM
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Mike -- Fortunately, the subtitles are too intense only when I am watching Marco Polo. I am as certain as I can be that their extreme brightness is a side effect of HDR..
I saw this guy leaving his house after watching several hours of UHD content in HDR!



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post #8400 of 8453 Old 08-10-2016, 06:29 PM
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I believe the point here is, that do to compression limitations, if you want to see the biggest impact of HDR you need to go to Blu-Ray. Unfortunately, do to cost, limited player availability, and practicality, (You can't rent UHD BD's from the likes of Netflix..) it may not be a viable option at this time, for even the most discerning viewer.

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You can rent them from www.3d-blurayrental.com. As well as 3D BDs and 2D BDs to go along with the UHD BD rentals.

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