1080p and 5.1 sound comes to Netflix (PS3 only for now) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

So are the Netflix titles really in DD+ or are they actually in DD?

One can endlessly bang their head about this topic as well from the press release:

Dolby Digital Plus is a sophisticated audio system based on Dolby Digital that has been adopted by many of the world's leading broadcasters, TV and set-top-box manufacturers, and device makers to provide consumers with full digital surround sound. It is designed to adapt to the changing demands of entertainment delivery while retaining compatibility with existing Dolby Digital 5.1-channel home theater systems.

Just like 1080p I think this topic should have a 3 post maximum.
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post #182 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger98 View Post

Letters and graphics are cut off of the menus at all of the borders. For example, the "Search" icon in the upper right of the screen is cut off at about the "r". Also, during playback of the movie, if I hit the display button, I only see the bottom of the letters that are displayed at the top of the screen--no idea what is actually being displayed up there.

This is not an issue for me on Blu-Ray playback and was not an issue with the menus/playback on the Netflix streaming disc, which leads me to believe there may be something related to the application itself. Perhaps it just doesn't give as much overscan allowance as the disc playback application.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering exactly what you were seeing.

Not that it helps you any, but there is no cropping on my system when using the new netflix. (1080 via hdmi) Are you using component or hdmi?

Edit:
It does seem that there is a bit of debugging left to do. While I don't have the cropping issue, I can't get 5.1 streams to work. When 5.1 is selected, all I get is silence despite every audio output format being enabled on the ps3 and my receiver supporting all of them too.
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post #183 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

One can endlessly bang their head about this topic as well from the press release:

Dolby Digital Plus is a sophisticated audio system based on Dolby Digital that has been adopted by many of the world's leading broadcasters, TV and set-top-box manufacturers, and device makers to provide consumers with full digital surround sound. It is designed to adapt to the changing demands of entertainment delivery while retaining compatibility with existing Dolby Digital 5.1-channel home theater systems.

Just like 1080p I think this topic should have a 3 post maximum.

yes. the Ps3 can transcode it to DD. There is no need to trasncode it to DD for an HDMI 1.3 device that is capable of bitstreaming the advanced codecs.
The original BX100 VUDU boxes have to transcode the DD+ audio to DD since they only Have HDMI 1.2

With the BD player implementations of VUDU with HDMI 1.3 you can bitstream the DD+ audio to take full advantage of it. DD is limited to 640Kb/s.
DD+ does not have that limit.

So i would expect a PS3 slim, if a Netflix title has DD+ to actually bitstream the DD+ audio like it does with BD titles since it is fully capable of it. There is no need for it to send it out as a legacy codec. Unless the users equipment needs a legacy codec.

Let's make it a 4 post maximum

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post #184 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

If there is a netflix player that is actually doing 24fps playback, I'd be pleased to hear of it. But so far, netflix has never claimed that there is such a player, nor denied either. Also, I've yet to hear anyone who is actually watching netflix streaming at 24fps. Got my fingers crossed that this will change soon though.

I didn't say that there was any such player, just that it could be done. I'm less gung ho about the possiblity, since I now realize that no common retail display can accept 720p24. They could output the 720p24 Netflix streams at 24 fps by upconverting them to 1080 first.
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Thanks for pointing out the rendered frame stat available when watching on a PC. That does indeed confirm that the streams are at native bitrate. Even better... At least some of the TV shows originally shot on film are also at their native 24fps. Most high budget network TV is still shot on film at 24fps. For instance The Office is at 24fps. This is excellent indeed!

As I understand it, fewer and fewer these days, since 1080p24 production is so much faster and more convenient as well as a lot cheaper. They could find better things to spend those big budgets on than film.
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With that confirmed (thanks for pointing me in the right direction), it is truly baffling that the PS3 netflix app isn't delivering that native 24fps when possible. The PS3 already has a preference that the netflix app could use to determine if 24fps playback should be enabled. If the PS3's owner has set blu-ray to play at 24fps, seems like the netflix app should leverage that preference as well.

It would have to upconvert the 720p streams to 1080, but then again, they are doing that now. Do we know that it's not outputting 24fps to displays which support it? Anyone have such a display which will tell them what it's receiving?

You're welcome for the tip about the A/V Stats display in the PC player. Use your new powers wisely .

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post #185 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

yes. the Ps3 can transcode it to DD. There is no need to trasncode it to DD for an HDMI 1.3 device that is capable of bitstreaming the advanced codecs.
The original BX100 VUDU boxes have to transcode the DD+ audio to DD since they only Have HDMI 1.2

With the BD player implementations with HDMI 1.3 you can bitstream the DD+ audio to take full advantage of it. DD is limited to 540Kb/s.
DD+ does not have that limit.

Even with HDMI 1.2, if the downstream device says that it can do uncompressed 8 channel PCM (pretty common in pre-HDMI-1.3 AVRs) the PS3 will process DD+ and the lossless formats internally and deliver an uncompressed stream.

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post #186 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post


they released a statement about using Dolby Digital Plus, but the PS3 is not sending the DD+ from the streaming titles. It's only sending DD.

On all my VUDU titles using my LGBD570, I get DD+ from them.
And the PS3 slim has no problem sending DD+ from BD titles that use it.

So are the Netflix titles really in DD+ or are they actually in DD?

Did u try both lpcm and bitstream out?
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post #187 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Even with HDMI 1.2, if the downstream device says that it can do uncompressed 8 channel PCM (pretty common in pre-HDMI-1.3 AVRs) the PS3 will process DD+ and the lossless formats internally and deliver an uncompressed stream.


Only if you tell the PS3 to output PCM. I guess if I unchecked DD+ and DD that would force the PS3 to send PCM. But I would rather have my receiver do the decoding since it can handle everything except AAC in the PS3 audio options.

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post #188 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

...
It would have to upconvert the 720p streams to 1080, but then again, they are doing that now. Do we know that it's not outputting 24fps to displays which support it? Anyone have such a display which will tell them what it's receiving?
...

I've got a 24fps setup, hence all my griping about it not being supported.

When playing blu-ray from the PS3, my projector runs at 24hz. The PS3 outputs all streams at 60hz. (According to the source info screen on an InFocus X1 projector)
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post #189 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Thought you'd find this interesting from engadget:
Quote:


Other questions we've heard concern the video quality, and whether it is 1080p or 1080i, we asked Netflix and were told the following:

"As for the 1080i confusion - Our 1080 sources are either interlaced or progressive. All of our 1080 encodes are progressive. This means that we do perform conversion of 1080i sources to 1080p at encoding time. We use industry-standard tools to execute the conversion."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/19/n...eadaches-vide/

So according to them, it is a 1080 source. Also of interest is they used one of my screenshots in that article and mentioned my name. Please don't trample one another in the rush to line up for an autograph.
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post #190 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Thought you'd find this interesting from engadget:


http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/19/n...eadaches-vide/

So according to them, it is a 1080 source. Also of interest is they used one of my screenshots in that article and mentioned my name. Please don't trample one another in the rush to line up for an autograph.

That comment is so annoyingly uninformative, they really need to be clear on which titles this is available on. It reminds me of some folks on an island in the Pacific, they ask a few questions, but never the one's that matter.
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post #191 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Thought you'd find this interesting from engadget:


http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/19/n...eadaches-vide/

So according to them, it is a 1080 source. Also of interest is they used one of my screenshots in that article and mentioned my name. Please don't trample one another in the rush to line up for an autograph.



This thing is getting funny. The article mentions 2 different interfaces and I guess I have a third one: I have the interface that looks like the one on the top but without the triangle (browse) function. Actually, my triangle doesn't do anything.

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post #192 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 04:52 PM
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I was browsing the titles and noticed that few have an expiration day. Look for "Traitor" and you see "available until 10/20". What the hell is that ?

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post #193 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

I was browsing the titles and noticed that few have an expiration day. Look for "Traitor" and you see "available until 10/20". What the hell is that ?

Just like any other VOD service, that's licensing and has been like that since day 1 (various titles come and go). More often than not, it seems the license is just renewed, but I have had some things expire and they get moved to a "saved" section at the bottom of my instant queue. Sometimes they get added again later, and sometimes not.
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post #194 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Just like any other VOD service, that's licensing and has been like that since day 1 (various titles come and go). More often than not, it seems the license is just renewed, but I have had some things expire and they get moved to a "saved" section at the bottom of my instant queue. Sometimes they get added again later, and sometimes not.

Thanks, I guess this is very rare since I have never seen any of the movies on my queue going to "saved". Good to know.

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post #195 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Thought you'd find this interesting from engadget:


http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/19/n...eadaches-vide/

So according to them, it is a 1080 source. Also of interest is they used one of my screenshots in that article and mentioned my name. Please don't trample one another in the rush to line up for an autograph.

Nice find. It's good to know that my experiences with the "Video Browsing" mode crashing aren't uncommon. It's a nice feature; however, when I first explored it, I was actually surprised that the movies weren't simply showing the trailer. Now, *that* would be a nice feature for Netflix to add to the PS3 app, trailer streaming during video browsing...
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post #196 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Thanks, I guess this is very rare since I have never seen any of the movies on my queue going to "saved". Good to know.

Yeah, I have two right now that expire at the end of the month (Mulholland Falls and P2). I just check my queue at the beginning of the month and make a mental note of any that I need to make sure I watch. I wouldn't say it's rare...just depends on which titles you have. I tend to keep up on it and prioritize any that are expiring.

I think I only ever missed one (Resistance) which has been gone for about 6 months, but I see is "coming soon" again.

They don't really list them on Netflix's site, but on the 360, these are obvious, as they are labeled with a big red "expiring on xxxx" when you hover over it (not sure if the PS3's app does the same, since I apparently can't get the new one yet). You can also use Feedfliks' streaming central (http://feedfliks.com/streaming), which helps. Honestly, there's too many to keep track of (399 expire in the next two weeks, but they're always adding new ones, and renewing licenses, etc). It would be nice if Netflix showed this info on your queue...they used to when a title was expiring within 30 days, but then that just went away for some reason.

I assume it's on a title-by-title basis...if no one (or very few) have a watched a title, there's no sense in renewing the license, other than for numbers. Same as they probably don't replace every damaged DVD or Blu-Ray, if it's not in-demand.

What's even more annoying, is if you look at (for example), BSG Season 1, Greatest American Hero, or Quantum Leap, you'll see missing eps that are "disc only" due to some licensing issue. My understanding is it could be something as simple as not being able to get a license to a song that's in the episode, or not being able to use someone's name or likeness. Licensing is obviously complicated, and has been known to hang DVD releases up for years (and I assume the same is/will be true of BD).
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post #197 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Thanks, I guess this is very rare since I have never seen any of the movies on my queue going to "saved". Good to know.

Rare? Not by a long shot. It just depends on how many titles you regularly have in your queue. My instant queue is always full and has been for several months. Right now I have 92 titles in my "Saved" section of the Instant queue.
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post #198 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Thanks for the info. I was wondering exactly what you were seeing.

Not that it helps you any, but there is no cropping on my system when using the new netflix. (1080 via hdmi) Are you using component or hdmi?

Edit:
It does seem that there is a bit of debugging left to do. While I don't have the cropping issue, I can't get 5.1 streams to work. When 5.1 is selected, all I get is silence despite every audio output format being enabled on the ps3 and my receiver supporting all of them too.

I'm using component.

5.1 works fine for me via hdmi.
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post #199 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Thought you'd find this interesting from engadget:


http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/19/n...eadaches-vide/

So according to them, it is a 1080 source. Also of interest is they used one of my screenshots in that article and mentioned my name. Please don't trample one another in the rush to line up for an autograph.

They mention some issues when using a harmony remote. I'm using a Harmony One Remote with the Blue Tooth adapter and it's working fine. My only issue is not receiving DD+ with the PS3 transcoding it to DD. EVen when I unchecked the Dolby options, the PS3 transcoded the audio to DTS. I had to uncheck the DTS options to get PCM output.

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post #200 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

They mention some issues when using a harmony remote. I'm using a Harmony One Remote with the Blue Tooth adapter and it's working fine. My only issue is not receiving DD+ with the PS3 transcoding it to DD. EVen when I unchecked the Dolby options, the PS3 transcoded the audio to DTS. I had to uncheck the DTS options to get PCM output.

I'm using a Harmony 680 (older, obviously) with the Nyko Blu-Wave IR dongle, and apparently I can't do the following:
  1. Fast-Forward
  2. Rewind
  3. Back out of the app, since it uses the "PS" button which I can't map. Why didn't they use the circle button to back out of the app?

Why FF and Rewind don't work is beyond me as well. It works fine for Blu-Rays, DVDs, and any other video I've ever played on it. Why doesn't it work for the Netflix app?

I can basically pause and stop, which takes me back out to the non-new interface. I am watching Kill Point though (an 8 episode series) and it looks great and is in 5.1. Don't really notice a PQ improvement over the 360 (I started the series a couple days ago on the 360), but on my 50" plasma at 9', I wouldn't really expect to notice a big difference.
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post #201 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

That comment is so annoyingly uninformative, they really need to be clear on which titles this is available on.

I'd be happy with them telling us just one or two titles with 1080p encodings. Since the Xbox can't display them as yet, I could flip back and forth between it and my PS3 and compare PQ.

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post #202 of 426 Old 10-19-2010, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I'd be happy with them telling us just one or two titles with 1080p encodings. Since the Xbox can't display them as yet, I could flip back and forth between it and my PS3 and compare PQ.

Indeed, I could do the same with a TiVo.
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post #203 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Thought you'd find this interesting from engadget:


http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/19/n...eadaches-vide/

So according to them, it is a 1080 source. Also of interest is they used one of my screenshots in that article and mentioned my name. Please don't trample one another in the rush to line up for an autograph.

Yeah its a 1080p SOURCE, doesn't say anything about a 1080p STREAM. I doubt they are send a true 1080p stream, no way.. This is all crafty advertising by Netflix and Sony. Let me see them state they are sending a true 1080p stream and tell us what the bitrates are.
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post #204 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Micker View Post

Yeah its a 1080p SOURCE, doesn't say anything about a 1080p STREAM. I doubt they are send a true 1080p stream, no way..

What they (Netflix) said was:
Quote:


As for the 1080i confusion - Our 1080 sources are either interlaced or progressive. All of our 1080 encodes are progressive. This means that we do perform conversion of 1080i sources to 1080p at encoding time.

There's no reason for them to create 1080p encodings if they're not going to stream them.

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post #205 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 12:09 PM
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And do ANY devices which can stream Netflix output in 1080i anyway? My understanding to get anything more than 480p you had to use HDMI out on a player. I got a HDFury converter before I got my Samsung player with Netflix and never bothered to check what happens over component.
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post #206 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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And do ANY devices which can stream Netflix output in 1080i anyway?

You can do 1080i out of an HDMI device. For one thing, it's the highest resolution of broadcast television so TV and cable tuning STBs with HDMI outputs have to do it. It's the maximum resolution of my trusty old TiVo Series3, which streams Netflix and is connected through my AVR to my television via HDMI.

I'm not sure that it what it does if you use component while streaming Netflix.

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post #207 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 12:41 PM
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On my PS3 slim and this new Netflix app, I don't even have the Video Browsing option. There's no mention of it and the triangle button doesn't do anything.

What is the cause of this? I tried deleting the app, deleting its save data and redownloading it, but it didn't change anything.
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post #208 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russr View Post

On my PS3 slim and this new Netflix app, I don't even have the Video Browsing option. There's no mention of it and the triangle button doesn't do anything.

What is the cause of this? I tried deleting the app, deleting its save data and redownloading it, but it didn't change anything.

We have the same software, like you I don't have this video browsing and the triangle doen't do anything. I can't figure why there are different versions.

Standard Definition Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy
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post #209 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 02:25 PM
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Well they aren't streaming Dolby Digital plus, so them not streaming 1080p shouldn't come as much as a surprise.
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post #210 of 426 Old 10-20-2010, 03:27 PM
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I too have a Harmony 900 mapped using a Nyko Bluwave IR Remote. I do not have an option of mapping the PS button on my harmony. Has anyone else figured out how to do this?

Thanks,
Pradeep
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