1080p and 5.1 sound comes to Netflix (PS3 only for now) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Reported in the news thread, but repeated here since the news thread isn't for discussion (news only, I guess).

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/n...-and-5-1-surr/

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Rejoice, PS3 owners, your Netflix streaming experience just got vastly better than anything else on the market. Starting October 18 Netflix on the PS3 will no longer require a disc, and it'll stream some content with 1080i resolution and / or 5.1-channel surround audio, while everyone else will be stuck with a max of 720p stereo for the time being. Oh, and you'll get subtitles on some content as well. Netflix is partnering with Dolby on the audio side, and the surround format will be Dolby Digital Plus, which is the same codec used by the VUDU HDX streaming service -- we're guessing it'll require a tiny bit more bandwidth but the results should sound pretty great. Netflix says 5.1 will come to other platforms "over time," so we'll see how long that takes -- and given that the PS3 is now disc-free and the company's eschewed the SRS surround features baked into its Silverlight-based platform, we're guessing Microsoft's exclusivity period has now completely run its course

I wonder which titles will be available in 1080i and 5.1 (and how to identify them).
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post #2 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 07:22 AM
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Woohoo finally! Let's hope these titles aren't all junk.
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post #3 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by swtguy View Post

Woohoo finally! Let's hope these titles aren't all junk.

Well, "junk" is relative, but agreed...hopefully it's some more popular titles to quell the masses.

I have to dust off my PS3 now
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post #4 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 07:38 AM
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I guess I'll be getting Netflix.

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post #5 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 08:22 AM
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I'm almost as excited about not having to use that stupid disc as I am the 1080 and 5.1
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post #6 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 09:06 AM
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I hope that the new version of Netflix app for PS3 outputs videos as YCbCr (their native colorspace).

The current (soon to be old) disk based Netflix app for PS3 outputs RGB.

Does anyone who is using the current Hulu Plus beta know if it is outputting YCbCr or RGB?
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post #7 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 09:12 AM
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Anyone know if the latest Roku models have Dolby Digital Plus?
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post #8 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 09:16 AM
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I am guessing that the current HD titles will be upgraded to 1080i and surround sound. This link claims that the surround sound will be 7.1. Wow!! Maybe I should upgrade my system
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post #9 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnus2112 View Post

I am guessing that the current HD titles will be upgraded to 1080i and surround sound. This link claims that the surround sound will be 7.1. Wow!! Maybe I should upgrade my system

That article is wrong. They are assuming that the line 'Dolby Digital Plus supports up to 7.1 channels" to mean that's what Netflix will be using. All it means is that they could use 7.1 in the future if they want to (again, Netflix is forward thinking by starting to use a format that can be expanded in the future).
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post #10 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 09:51 AM
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I hope they improve the SD codec as well. It should be better than DVD. Currently its not, especially with dark scenes.

I guess XB360 will get the new netflix app with the dashboard update this fall.
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post #11 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberslam74 View Post

I hope that the new version of Netflix app for PS3 outputs videos as YCbCr (their native colorspace).

The current (soon to be old) disk based Netflix app for PS3 outputs RGB.

I think I may have just answered my own question. I am not aware of any 1080i signals that are RGB. I belive that all 1080i signals are YCbCr.

If the PS3 outputs the 1080i stream from Netflix as 1080i, then it would almost have to be YCbCr.

My strong suspicion is that the first videos on Netflix to be 1080i will be TV shows that were originally broadcast in 1080i.
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post #12 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 10:13 AM
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NF has the capability to do DD+ in 7.1. This does not mean that they will. Only thing they have committed to is DD+ 5.1.

No mention if this is just for titles going forward or are they going to back and and add/change the audio track on their existing catalog.

What Greg Peters failed to mention was how much of the existing devices have the hardware to support DD+ and how many of the hardware manufactures are committed to pushing out new software to support DD+ on the current devices.

Since the hardware manufactures are responsible for producing the software to run NF. I'm wondering how how many are going to update their software for their existing devices. Don't be surprised when the device manufactures say DD+ only supported on 2011 devices. Sorry, unable to support devices that consumers already have in their homes.

I know. I'm cynical. But look at the manufactures saying they are unable to support NF Canada on their existing devices. Look what WD did - you must buy a new device (WD Live HD+) if you want NF. We did not design the WD Live HD correctly to support NF.
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post #13 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 10:34 AM
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Yeah that is one benefit of the consoles. You know they will be updated to support whatever netflix brings due to the fierce competition between MS and sony. MS brings 1080p streaming to XB via zune marketplace.
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post #14 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 11:18 AM
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I'm a bit confused. Does this mean that as as soon as they start streaming in 5.1 it will be Dolby Digital at 640kbps like Vudu HDX, and the legacy Dolby tracks on Blu rays?
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post #15 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 11:28 AM
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Any ideas what kind of bandwidth this will need? I'm on a 6mb connection right now, think that will be enough?
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post #16 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 11:44 AM
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I'm pretty stoked they decided to drop SRS surround in lieu of DD+. Really didn't expect that.


What I'm really curious is whether they will offer 1080p24. It actually uses less bandwidth than 1080i.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberslam74 View Post

Anyone know if the latest Roku models have Dolby Digital Plus?

Good question. If anyone has a hardware breakdown, we I'm pretty sure we can look up the HDMI Tx to see if it supports bitstreaming. To be honest, I'm pretty sure Silicon Image no longer makes HDMI 1.3 Tx cards that lack DD+, so I suspect it's there by default.
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post #17 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberslam74 View Post

I think I may have just answered my own question. I am not aware of any 1080i signals that are RGB. I belive that all 1080i signals are YCbCr.

If the PS3 outputs the 1080i stream from Netflix as 1080i, then it would almost have to be YCbCr.

My strong suspicion is that the first videos on Netflix to be 1080i will be TV shows that were originally broadcast in 1080i.

I'm pretty sure Netflix has nothing to do with this ... it's the PS3 that is transcoding color spaces. It is illogical that Netflix is streaming RGB, it uses more bandwidth - which is something Neflix can't afford.

Take a look to see what your PS3 is configured to output. There are separate controls for DVD/BD and games IIRC. That said, it's unclear whether this is directly controlled by that, or Sony is simply defaulting it. I suspect it is correlated to the games setting though.



Assuming everyone is playing nicely (proper transcoding, and your TV correctly accepts the signal) ... it shouldn't matter. The colors should be the same. In reality, your TV is going to convert to RGB at some point anyway. That's how pixels are represented in its framebuffer.
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post #18 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Netflix blog was updated with "1080i" struck out and "1080p" inserted....

http://www.ps3blog.net/

So apparently it is 1080p. Sweet. Can't wait to see how it looks.
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post #19 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Netflix blog was updated with "1080i" struck out and "1080p" inserted....

http://www.ps3blog.net/

So apparently it is 1080p. Sweet. Can't wait to see how it looks.

Have you seen any 1080p AVC streams downloaded off of PSN? I can't imagine it looking any better than that.

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post #20 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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No but 1080p through Zune marketplace on xbox. That is amazing so if Netflix looks similar I will be very happy.
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post #21 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 04:04 PM
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Apples and oranges. It's hard to compare how a 1080p Netflix stream is going to look on a 360 by what it looks like on the PS3. I have both platforms and the PS3 has a better decoder. The 360 does a pretty good job though, just not quite as good. I imagine at the kind of compressed data-rates that Netflix will be sending they'll be comparable.

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post #22 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 04:19 PM
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I hope they go for something near Vudu's HDX bitrate instead of skimping. I believe that's nominally 9Mb/s with spikes to 20Mb/s.
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post #23 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

I hope they go for something near Vudu's HDX bitrate instead of skimping. I believe that's nominally 9Mb/s with spikes to 20Mb/s.

Doubt it. The fact they first announced 1080i and then all of a sudden said 1080p leads me to believe the bitrate will be a bit higher than 720p, but not much.

I (like everyone else) am more interested in which movies they will offer in 1080p/5.1 and if they'll be migrating their current catalog of streaming movies over to either format.

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post #24 of 426 Old 10-14-2010, 08:53 PM
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Obviously content is the biggest priority, but I really hope what you said is untrue. If not, I weep for the future.



As for your 1080i to 1080p rationale, I'm not really sure what it is supposed to prove? If they are referring to 1080p24, it actually uses less bandwidth than 1080i. Unfortunately the details are sketchy so far - it's hard to make an educated guess.
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post #25 of 426 Old 10-15-2010, 12:33 AM
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Details indeed, for example, where has Netflix themselves stated this Oct 18 rollout on the PS3 would include anything other than the DDP audio? There's no mention of 1080i/1080p in the Netflix press release, only Sony is saying increased resolution, and it's being parroted by all the net bloggers.

Netflix stated back in February that while 1080p was coming, it would not be this year. This was at the same time they announced 5.1 audio would be coming this year - apparently 5.1 audio is in fact coming on Monday, but I've seen no mention from Netflix on 1080i/p video.
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post #26 of 426 Old 10-15-2010, 07:35 AM
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I guess we'll see soon enough.



One thing I do hope from an administrative perspective ... search categories for surround sound and to a lesser extent, different resolutions (assuming they do offer higher than 720p).
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post #27 of 426 Old 10-15-2010, 10:23 AM
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It would be easier for the PS3 to upscale 720P to 1080P than 1080I. But this begs the question of 1080p24 or 1080p60.

I do no not think that NF will actually be sending down a 1080P stream. The PS3 will be up scaling the 720P stream to 1080P.

For details on the DD+ specification see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus
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post #28 of 426 Old 10-15-2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

I hope they go for something near Vudu's HDX bitrate instead of skimping. I believe that's nominally 9Mb/s with spikes to 20Mb/s.

Vudu's HDX only requires 4.5 mbps so it couldn't be doing that. I only have 6 mbps DSL and it plays fine on it.

http://www.vudu.com/product_overview.html

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post #29 of 426 Old 10-15-2010, 05:24 PM
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I'm fairly certain they specifically said they'll be offering 1080p content, not just 720p upconverted. I bet it will be 1080p60 though, because they offer so much video based content.

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post #30 of 426 Old 10-15-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I'm fairly certain they specifically said they'll be offering 1080p content, not just 720p upconverted. I bet it will be 1080p60 though, because they offer so much video based content.

The bandwidth necessary for that makes it pretty unlikely.

It would look markedly worse than their 720p offerings unless there's a serious bitrate increase.



Out of curiosity, what huge amount of video-based content do they offer? Serious question, I just never paid attention?
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