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Video Download Services & Hardware > Best possible Netflix streaming device
new04quest's Avatar new04quest 07:47 AM 05-06-2011
PS3 still my top pick and Boxee Box is the runner up!
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rpauls's Avatar rpauls 08:45 AM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Chef View Post

The temporary sign-in works for some people, and not others. It worked for me during the first week of the outage, and hasn't worked since.

I just set up a new television for my exercise room. Originally I was going to buy another PS3 and stream NF to it, but now I am going to get something that doesn't require PSN. If that works out, I will replace the PS3 for the main TV as well.

When I called Playstation customer support 2 weeks ago they told me to just hit the circle and go back and forth a couple times if necessary and it should bypass the sign in eventually. But they said it is not guaranteed to work. For me it did.

Why do you suppose the PS3 requires PSN sign in to use Netflix anyway? I hope they change this in the future.
Mr. Cinema's Avatar Mr. Cinema 01:08 PM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Wireless works better or worse in different situation regardless of the equipment in use. Placement of devices relative to the router, how much of what materials in your home lie in between, how much interference with other people's WLANs, stuff in your home generating noise in the same frequencies, etc.

One of the premium features of Roku XDS over the XD is a superior wireless N implementation, so chances are that it will work better than the XD, though it's not certain (I believe the other premium features are analog outs and a USB connection for playing media files).

Is using a Wireless N router a big difference vs G?
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 01:15 PM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

Why do you suppose the PS3 requires PSN sign in to use Netflix anyway? I hope they change this in the future.

Probably because Sony wants it that way. They like a fairly closed system for their flagship AV product. Changing that is probably doubtful, IMO, given their corporate culture.
DragonLoaf's Avatar DragonLoaf 01:52 PM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema View Post

Is using a Wireless N router a big difference vs G?

Perhaps. I started using Netflix streaming with a G router. Most of the time the stream was acceptable, but had some heinous unwatchable incidents as well. I went to an N router and have not had similar events since.

As noted by many others the N router is but one factor of many which are mostly location specific. If you are using a G router and find it acceptable then I see no reason to change. But if you are having problems it may be causing some of them. Get an N router and try it out; you can always return it if there is no improvement.

Also there are free programs available if you have a computer with a wireless connection that allow you to monitor the access points in your neighborhood, their signal strengths, and potential conflicts caused by transmission on the same channel. I check my area every other week or so to ensure that I am not on the same channel as my neighbors, which I have noticed does make a difference.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 03:29 PM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema View Post

Is using a Wireless N router a big difference vs G?

It's complicated, but under most circumstances you'll get much greater throughput out of dual band 802.11n (what the XDS offers) to a dual band router than if using 802.11g. Dual band 802.11n has a theoretical maximum speed of 600 Mbps (300 Mbps single band) versus the 802.11g's 54 Mbps maximum. Of course, you're not going to get those maximum burst rates, but N will almost certainly give you much higher speeds than G in the same situation.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 03:39 PM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

When I called Playstation customer support 2 weeks ago they told me to just hit the circle and go back and forth a couple times if necessary and it should bypass the sign in eventually. But they said it is not guaranteed to work. For me it did.

Different people seem to be doing this different ways. Some claim that if you hit CIRCLE when it brings up the sign-in dialog several times it will stop asking. This worked after a few tries with VUDU, but I gave up after 5 or so attempts with Netflix. Now I just hit SEL to get it to attempt the sign in and when the "PSN under maintenance" message pops up, I hit CIRCLE. This works for me every time with VUDU or Netflix.
Quote:


Why do you suppose the PS3 requires PSN sign in to use Netflix anyway? I hope they change this in the future.

That's what I'd like to see as well. After this I don't want a PSN account, and don't need one since I never play online multiplayer games (won't be playing games at all with it until Uncharted 3 comes out) and never buy anything from them. The only thing that I use the network for is Netflix, VUDU and system and game updates. Apparently game updates are working just fine with PSN down.

I think that there'll be considerable customer pressure for them to stop needlessly insisting on PSN sign-in for network access to things which don't reference PSN.
andyross63's Avatar andyross63 04:24 PM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Chef View Post

Of all the devices mentioned in the thread, is the PS3 the only one that must use the Playstation Network when accessing Netflix?

I have a feeling many devices require some form of 3rd party network to authorize before going to Netflix. I have a Sony TV and BD player with Netflix, and they still work normally.

BTW, some hackers have said they will attack Sony's servers this weekend...
dfiler's Avatar dfiler 01:13 PM 07-22-2011
My PS3 died last night so i'm on a mission to replace it.

Other than the LG BD390, which other netflix streamers can do 24p output?

Any comments on the BD390 in general? I assume it is getting the same 1080p streams as the ps3 so it should be roughly equivalent... but with native framerate support.

Edit:

Oops, I see the BD390 was discontinued and there is an entire new line of LG blu-ray players. However I haven't seen any confirmation on the web, which of the new players do netflix at 24p. For instance the newer BD630 is only $120. It is 1080p capable, and does netflix, but does it do them at the same time? It's one of those time when I don't know how older/more-expensive compares to newer/cheaper...
rpauls's Avatar rpauls 05:43 AM 07-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
My PS3 died last night so i'm on a mission to replace it.

Other than the LG BD390, which other netflix streamers can do 24p output?

Any comments on the BD390 in general? I assume it is getting the same 1080p streams as the ps3 so it should be roughly equivalent... but with native framerate support.

Edit:

Oops, I see the BD390 was discontinued and there is an entire new line of LG blu-ray players. However I haven't seen any confirmation on the web, which of the new players do netflix at 24p. For instance the newer BD630 is only $120. It is 1080p capable, and does netflix, but does it do them at the same time? It's one of those time when I don't know how older/more-expensive compares to newer/cheaper...
How do you know Netflix streams are encoded at 24 fps?
dfiler's Avatar dfiler 05:45 AM 07-23-2011
Netflix blog posts, display of framerate on pc, and lengthy discussion on this forum.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 12:28 PM 07-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

How do you know Netflix streams are encoded at 24 fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Netflix blog posts, display of framerate on pc, and lengthy discussion on this forum.

I believe that all of the online commercial entertainment video services encode at 24p (30p for some television content). It's easier, since that's how they get the content and more space efficient. Doesn't matter much to the players since the operation to transform it into whatever framerate they ouput is "trivial" (not really the word, since those algorithms aren't if they're any good, but it's an extremely common operation).

From the ancient "Encoding for streaming" Netflix blog entry:
Quote:


Encoded films are normally at 24fps to match the source, while shot-to-video and mixed material is de-interlaced to 30fps (or 25fps for PAL content).

Later, in the "High Definition Encodes" section:
Quote:


As with SD, encodes of film material are at 24fps, and encodes of shot-to-video material are at 30fps (or 25fps for PAL)

That blog entry is nearly 3 years old, but I can't see any reason why that would change.
RangerOne's Avatar RangerOne 06:40 AM 07-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

My PS3 died last night so i'm on a mission to replace it.

Other than the LG BD390, which other netflix streamers can do 24p output?

Any comments on the BD390 in general? I assume it is getting the same 1080p streams as the ps3 so it should be roughly equivalent... but with native framerate support.

Edit:

Oops, I see the BD390 was discontinued and there is an entire new line of LG blu-ray players. However I haven't seen any confirmation on the web, which of the new players do netflix at 24p. For instance the newer BD630 is only $120. It is 1080p capable, and does netflix, but does it do them at the same time? It's one of those time when I don't know how older/more-expensive compares to newer/cheaper...

Just because a blu-ray player supports 1080P doesn't mean that its Netflix client supports it. The only Netflix players that support 1080P streams currently are the PS3 and the new Roku 2 that I'm aware of. Netflix says other devices are on their way.
mproper's Avatar mproper 06:42 AM 07-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Just because a blu-ray player supports 1080P doesn't mean that its Netflix client supports it. The only Netflix players that support 1080P streams currently are the PS3 and the new Roku 2 that I'm aware of. Netflix says other devices are on their way.

There are other devices. There's a list at the top of this thread that I think is up-to-date: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1297186

Although that capable of 5.1 sound. Sorry, not sure if all of those are capable of 1080p (I don't keep up)
dfiler's Avatar dfiler 08:06 AM 07-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Just because a blu-ray player supports 1080P doesn't mean that its Netflix client supports it. The only Netflix players that support 1080P streams currently are the PS3 and the new Roku 2 that I'm aware of. Netflix says other devices are on their way.

You are correct in the distinction regarding 1080p netflix streaming. However there are definitely more devices that support it than just the Roku2 and PS3.

A few months ago I made a post exactly like what you just stated. That is when it was proved to me other players do indeed do 1080p netflix streaming and some even do 24 fps streaming. If memory serves correctly, the LG BD line did both. Although I can't seem to find that thread now. Can anyone confirm if the LG bluray players stream netflix at 1080p24?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 11:52 AM 07-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
Can anyone confirm if the LG bluray players stream netflix at 1080p24?
I'm not buying it until other people start testing the bandwidth consumed. As far as I know, there's no other non-anectdotal way to determine this. One person saying, "Oh I can see the difference" doesn't offer any proof. If someone has a Netflix player that outputs 480p for SD and 720p for HD which is now outputting both 720p and 1080p to a television which can display what it's receiving, I'd accept that as proof as well. (If someone does, I can point you to a title which is known to not have a 1080p encoding).

There was an update to the Panasonic DMP-BDTx10 line of 3D BD players the other day--I should re-test it. I have a Roku 2 XS coming on Monday which I will immediately test.
thebard's Avatar thebard 01:05 PM 07-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
Can anyone confirm if the LG bluray players stream netflix at 1080p24?
You'd have trouble proving this for the LG without definitive confirmation from Netflix. Even the top-of-the-line LG BD670 does not seem to offer native (pass-through) resolution settings. It has an option for "Auto", but it's not clear whether this defaults to the source resolution or to the display's capabilities.

Without a native setting, the display will read whatever (possibly upscaled) signal the player is providing.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:36 PM 07-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post
You'd have trouble proving this for the LG without definitive confirmation from Netflix.
I could prove it if I had one by determining a 10 minute average bandwidth consumption using the bandwidth graphing feature of the open source firmware running in my router. (I've taken many measurements of various Netflix streamers that I own--you can see some here, with a continuation of that series a few post down here). The PS3 gets a stream which consumes the same amount of bandwidth as everything else when you limit its output resolution to 720p; it gets a stream at a 30%+ higher bit rate when you set its output resolution to 1080p. None of the other five platforms I've tried gets this higher bit rate stream (Panasonic DMP-BDT110, Roku XD, Xbox 360, TiVo S3 and this PC). I will try the Roku 2 XS when it gets here tomorrow.

Of course, I don't have access to all of the hundreds of Netflix streaming devices, so there may be others which are getting 1080p streams. Since Roku 2 is supposed to be getting 1080p Netflix streams, if Sony had a timed exclusive for the PS3 it must have expired.
dfiler's Avatar dfiler 01:41 PM 07-27-2011
Thanks for the feedback. I did a bunch of searching, trying to figure out where I had read about LG's netflix capabilities. It seems likely that I remembered incorrectly. As best as I can make out, they're capable of 24p, not 1080p. Perhaps that is what I was remembering. Sorry if I read anyone astray.

So while the PS3 does 1080 and 5.1, it doesn't do 24p. Which poses an interesting quandary. Would it be better to have higher resolution or native frame rate? .... hmmmm.
rpauls's Avatar rpauls 05:43 AM 07-28-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The PS3 gets a stream which consumes the same amount of bandwidth as everything else when you limit its output resolution to 720p; it gets a stream at a 30%+ higher bit rate when you set its output resolution to 1080p. None of the six platforms I've tried gets this higher bit rate stream (PS3, Panasonic DMP-BDT110, Roku XD, Xbox 360, TiVo S3 and this PC).
.

Did you mean to say none of the other 5? The PS3 does get the higher bitrate stream, right?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 10:55 AM 07-28-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post
Did you mean to say none of the other 5? The PS3 does get the higher bitrate stream, right?
Yeah--sorry . I fixed it.
RangerOne's Avatar RangerOne 07:42 PM 07-29-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I could prove it if I had one by determining a 10 minute average bandwidth consumption using the bandwidth graphing feature of the open source firmware running in my router. (I've taken many measurements of various Netflix streamers that I own--you can see some here, with a continuation of that series a few post down here). The PS3 gets a stream which consumes the same amount of bandwidth as everything else when you limit its output resolution to 720p; it gets a stream at a 30%+ higher bit rate when you set its output resolution to 1080p. None of the other five platforms I've tried gets this higher bit rate stream (Panasonic DMP-BDT110, Roku XD, Xbox 360, TiVo S3 and this PC). I will try the Roku 2 XS when it gets here tomorrow.

Of course, I don't have access to all of the hundreds of Netflix streaming devices, so there may be others which are getting 1080p streams. Since Roku 2 is supposed to be getting 1080p Netflix streams, if Sony had a timed exclusive for the PS3 it must have expired.

Some of the Netflix players (i.e. the Wii) will actually display the bandwidth on the screen. It would be nice if the devices that used the HTML5 interface would display it. Anyone aware of a way to get them to display it?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 09:14 PM 07-29-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Some of the Netflix players (i.e. the Wii) will actually display the bandwidth on the screen. It would be nice if the devices that used the HTML5 interface would display it. Anyone aware of a way to get them to display it?

That's interesting--I hadn't heard that. What, exactly, does the Wii display? If you press the SELECT button on the PS3 while playing a stream it will display a little bit of information overlayed over the top left corner. For video quality it will display "Low/SD", "Med/SD", "High/SD", "Med/HD", "High/HD" or "X-High/HD". Each of these names a distinct encoding, 1 Mbps, 1.6 Mbps, 2.2 Mbps, 2.6 Mbps, 3.8 Mbps and 5.1 Mbps; the first three being 480p, the 4th and 5th being 720p and the 6th being 1080p.

AFAIK, no one's found a debug mode for the HTML5/Webkit player (if one exists), for any device other than the PS3, which had the same information in its original BD-based player, activated the same way. I tried all of the buttons on my BD player's remote with no luck.

BTW, I received a Roku 2 XS on Friday morning and tested it; it does get the 1080p stream like the PS3, only the 2nd device I've tested (of 7) which does. You can see graphs of the data in this post.
mproper's Avatar mproper 09:29 PM 07-29-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

That's interesting--I hadn't heard that. What, exactly, does the Wii display?

I didn't know it did either, so I just tried it. If you press "2" on the Wiimote, it appears you get a bandwidth thing. Just started playing Mesrine Pt1 and it's displaying "3.7Mbps (1.8)". Not sure exactly what the (1.8) means unless you have an idea. The Mbps seems to fluctuate between 1.2 and I've saw as high as 4.8 on mine.

Of course, watching a minute of it on the Wii made me miss my PS3 so I quickly turned it off. Never really watched anything on the Wii other than to test it months ago.
RangerOne's Avatar RangerOne 07:19 AM 07-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post


BTW, I received a Roku 2 XS on Friday morning and tested it; it does get the 1080p stream like the PS3, only the 2nd device I've tested (of 7) which does. You can see graphs of the data in this post.

Mike, I think these are the only two players out there that do 1080P. In the conversations I've had with Netflix on this topic, they've never brought up any other players that do it.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 09:49 AM 07-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Mike, I think these are the only two players out there that do 1080P. In the conversations I've had with Netflix on this topic, they've never brought up any other players that do it.

Yes--I think so too. My guess is that there's been an exclusivity deal with Sony for the PS3 which is now expiring. Hopefully other devices (like my BDT110) will get it. The Roku 2 XS has a flaw in its Netflix player that screws it up for me--it can only output 5.1 sound as bitstreamed DD+, which my current AVR cannot decode. Surround sound is several times more important to me than 1080p (and I can get both out of the PS3) so I won't be making much use of the Roku until such time as I upgrade my 5 y/o AVR.

I tweeted Netflixhelps a couple of times asking them to identify players capable of displaying the 1080p encodings and they declined to answer.
Ballz2TheWallz's Avatar Ballz2TheWallz 08:16 AM 08-01-2011
Is there any 1080p content on Netflix? Do they plan to bring 1080p streaming to the 360? My PS3 is modded, and thus cannot go on PSN.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 10:36 AM 08-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballz2TheWallz View Post

Is there any 1080p content on Netflix? Do they plan to bring 1080p streaming to the 360? My PS3 is modded, and thus cannot go on PSN.

Having checked 20-30 HD streams at random and finding that all of them had 1080p encodings, my conclusion is that the great majority of HD streams have them. Someone pointed out an HD title which doesn't have an "X-High/HD" encoding, some anime series. I haven't run across any other 720p-only titles, but I haven't been looking.

The Roku 2 is only the 2nd device to get access to these streams--my guess is that there will be others soon. Whether or when the Xbox will get them is anyone's guess. My belief is that the Xbox still uses a set of VC-1 w/WMA audio encodings and that most other things are now using AVC encodings w/DD2.0 audio, DD+ 5.1 for some streams. It might be necessary for the Xbox to switch to get 1080p/5.1.
dfiler's Avatar dfiler 12:42 PM 08-01-2011
Thanks micheal, I always love perusing the bandwidth graphs from your router.

Can you confirm if the Roku 2 is capable of outputting netflix at 24p?

If it did, that would be the holy grail of netflix streaming, 1080p24 with 5.1 DD+. Oh pleeeease let it be so.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:09 PM 08-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Thanks micheal, I always love perusing the bandwidth graphs from your router.

Can you confirm if the Roku 2 is capable of outputting netflix at 24p?

If it did, that would be the holy grail of netflix streaming, 1080p24 with 5.1 DD+. Oh pleeeease let it be so.

Sorry--I don't have anything which can report that. (BTW, can any of the recent model AVRs report information about HDMI video format? I'll be buying one soon I think).
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