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post #631 of 1529 Old 11-02-2011, 09:56 PM
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well i didnt read through the whole thread.is the ps3 still the best device for streaming netflix? i'm about to purchase either the panasonic/samsung(720p) tv.i will enabling subtitles.can you change the subtitles color other than yellow? i checked youtube videos and they appear yellow.also is the apple tv 2 good for netflix?
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post #632 of 1529 Old 11-02-2011, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpsfreak View Post

well i didnt read through the whole thread.is the ps3 still the best device for streaming netflix? i'm about to purchase either the panasonic/samsung(720p) tv.i will enabling subtitles.can you change the subtitles color other than yellow? i checked youtube videos and they appear yellow.also is the apple tv 2 good for netflix?

At this point I would say that the Roku 2 (XD or XS) is. It plays 1080p video, bitstreamed 5.1 DD+ and closed captions on titles which feature these. In addition, it physically tiny, runs on about 2W (about 2% the draw of the PS3 Slim) and is absolutely silent in operation. The PS3 can do most of that except for bitstreaming DD+; it converts it into lame, watered down regular DD.

AFAIK, none of the players give you any control over rendition of closed captions.

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post #633 of 1529 Old 11-02-2011, 11:01 PM
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The new WD TV Live does all this and has an optical output as well.

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post #634 of 1529 Old 11-02-2011, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

AFAIK, none of the players give you any control over rendition of closed captions.

It should be theoretically possible for them to implement if they ever feel like it, as their delivery specs say they only accept text-based subs and captions.

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Subtitle as a separate file
The preferred formats for subtitles are text based SAMI or .SRT formats. The subtitle file must have timecode that is conformed (synced) to the digital video file asset. All other text-based formats can be submitted as a sample for approval as long as they conform to the digital asset but any raster image based subtitles will NOT be accepted.

Closed Captioniong as separate file
Closed captioning (CC) must be submitted in .SCC format. The closed captioning file must have timecode that is conformed (synced) to the digital video file asset. All other text-based formats can be submitted as a sample for approval as long as they conform to the digital asset but any raster image based closed captioning will NOT be accepted.

Last edited: 8/23/2011 SK

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post #635 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 03:07 AM
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Regarding the WD live, there is a review at Best Buy's website that states that when using the optical connection and netflix, you must manually change the audio setting in the player from bitstream optical to stereo depending upon whether dolby digital is available for the movie. In other words, it cannot auto detect dolby digital and stereo (PCM) and switch back and forth on its own.

This is a major problem and a shame since it is the only 1080P/dolby digital through optical streamer for Netflix (other than the PS3) and it can stream from the computer.

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post #636 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R. Scherr View Post

Regarding the WD live, there is a review at Best Buy's website that states that when using the optical connection and netflix, you must manually change the audio setting in the player from bitstream optical to stereo depending upon whether dolby digital is available for the movie. In other words, it cannot auto detect dolby digital and stereo (PCM) and switch back and forth on its own.

This is a major problem and a shame since it is the only 1080P/dolby digital through optical streamer for Netflix (other than the PS3) and it can stream from the computer.

Scott

The Roku 2 has the same issue. You have to select the soundtrack every time!
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post #637 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpsfreak View Post

well i didnt read through the whole thread.is the ps3 still the best device for streaming netflix? i'm about to purchase either the panasonic/samsung(720p) tv.i will enabling subtitles.can you change the subtitles color other than yellow? i checked youtube videos and they appear yellow.also is the apple tv 2 good for netflix?

The PS3 and Roku2 are two of the best because they offer 1080p resolution for Netflix in addition to 5.1 audio and subtitles. The Apple TV2 in my opinion has a far better user interface and a superior user experience in every way, However it is limited to 720p and I'm not sure about the audio and subtitles. Perhaps someone else can comment. Since you only require 720p you may want to look into this.

There is some talk that Apple will release a new ATV soon and that it may be 1080p. If it is, and if it does 5.1 and subtitles, it would easily be my first choice and I would sell my PS3. I can not over emphasis how impressed I am with the ATV user interface compared to the others.
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post #638 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 09:57 AM
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My problem with the ATV is that Netflix is the only thing that it does that I'm interested in, and it's a little expensive for that in this day and age. If I buy another device, it will have full-featured Netflix, Amazon and VUDU--give me those and I'm good, though HBO GO and Epix would be nice.

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post #639 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 10:07 AM
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Great article about Netflix and 1080P devices. Tells who has it, who will get it, and when.

http://www.techofthehub.com/2011/10/...ing-to-my.html

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post #640 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

My problem with the ATV is that Netflix is the only thing that it does that I'm interested in, and it's a little expensive for that in this day and age. If I buy another device, it will have full-featured Netflix, Amazon and VUDU--give me those and I'm good, though HBO GO and Epix would be nice.

Agreed. I went to the trouble of installing XBMC on the ATV2 and now it is more than worth the $99 price. However this only provides playback on my home network, it doesn't address the services that you're talking about.

With that said, the apple TV definitely has the best Netflix user interface. I'd go as far to say that all other netflix interfaces are pathetically bad. Not just bad, but embarrassingly so. I honestly don't understand why such a large corporation, with the money to pay graphics and interaction designers, has a product that looks like web pages from 1997. Some people might be OK with the current offerings, but I bet even those people will eventually look back and agree, the interfaces from this era are complete crap.

My prediction is that within the next year or two, netflix will finally realize/acknowledge this shortcoming and release drastically improved interfaces for most of the modern players. The apple TV netflix interface is good, but by no means the pinnacle of video library browsing.

But perhaps we shouldn't hold our breaths. They're still working on the basics, like outputting sound and video properly. Don't get me started on needing to manually change A/V settings according to each stream I'm about to watch. Ludicrous!

Unfortunately, no single player has everything worked out. Either audio tracks have to be manually selected, DD+ unavailable, 5.1 unavailable, 1080p unavailable, frame rate configurable but must be manually selected, unable to output 24p, horrible user interface, etc. So for now, each consumer will have to decide which shortcoming they can tolerate.
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post #641 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 11:32 AM
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hmmm...if i plug an hdmi cable from the roku 2 into the tv set can i plug the optical cable coming from the tv into my onkyo? tv has optical out.onkyo only has coaxial and optical plugins.
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post #642 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

The PS3 and Roku2 are two of the best because they offer 1080p resolution for Netflix in addition to 5.1 audio and subtitles. The Apple TV2 in my opinion has a far better user interface and a superior user experience in every way, However it is limited to 720p and I'm not sure about the audio and subtitles. Perhaps someone else can comment. Since you only require 720p you may want to look into this.

There is some talk that Apple will release a new ATV soon and that it may be 1080p. If it is, and if it does 5.1 and subtitles, it would easily be my first choice and I would sell my PS3. I can not over emphasis how impressed I am with the ATV user interface compared to the others.

Apple TV2 supports subtitles in Netflix (hold down the select button within a title; it doesn't tell you there's captions!). For Netflix audio, it supports Dolby Digital.
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post #643 of 1529 Old 11-03-2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpsfreak View Post

hmmm...if i plug an hdmi cable from the roku 2 into the tv set can i plug the optical cable coming from the tv into my onkyo? tv has optical out.onkyo only has coaxial and optical plugins.

Possibly, but only for stereo. The Roku 2 cannot process the 5.1 channel DD+ that it gets from Netflix; it can only send the untouched DD+ encoded sound onward. It's almost certain that your television won't be able to deal with that (my 5 y/o HTiB Onkyo AVR couldn't deal with it, so I recently bought a new one). In any case, devices sending sound over HDMI should query the downstream device as to what kind of sound it can handle; most TVs will reply "2.0 sound" or "2.1 sound" and that's what the upstream device will give them, so that's all they can pass forward over S/PDIF (coax or optical).

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post #644 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 09:58 AM
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I am responding to my own post. The WD Live Streaming device does automatically switch between dolby digital and stereo. You simply need to set the audio menu up properly. Dolby digital movies play automatically through optical without any need to change settings in the player or Netflix.

Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R. Scherr View Post

Regarding the WD live, there is a review at Best Buy's website that states that when using the optical connection and netflix, you must manually change the audio setting in the player from bitstream optical to stereo depending upon whether dolby digital is available for the movie. In other words, it cannot auto detect dolby digital and stereo (PCM) and switch back and forth on its own.

This is a major problem and a shame since it is the only 1080P/dolby digital through optical streamer for Netflix (other than the PS3) and it can stream from the computer.

Scott

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post #645 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 11:51 AM
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Ok, I was planning on buying a Roku2 but I just found out this morning that I won an Ipad2. So now I am thinking I would be better off getting an Apple TV to go with it. I am a noob when it comes to apple stuff, is the Apple TV that is for sale from amazon right now the Apple TV2? ...or is that coming out later? Con someone confirm that it will play 5.1 streams from netflix? That is the most important factor for me in a streaming device and is why I was going to get a roku and quit using my 360 for streaming.
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post #646 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Con someone confirm that it will play 5.1 streams from netflix? That is the most important factor for me in a streaming device and is why I was going to get a roku and quit using my 360 for streaming.

Looks like Apple TV added support for Netflix 5.1 sound with firmware update 4.2.

You might want to wait for the 360 fall dashboard update--I'll be surprised if the Xbox doesn't add support for 5.1 sound, closed-captions and 1080p video at that time. Of course Apple TV has other things going for it, like drawing a tiny fraction of the power and operating in silence.

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post #647 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 12:38 PM
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Nothing I've read about the dashboard update mentions netflix at all. Not even the detailed Wikipedia post mentions it. I am still confused though. Is this the Apple TV 2? People were making it sound like it was coming out fall of 2011 but that says 2010. Is that not the year it came out?
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post #648 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Nothing I've read about the dashboard update mentions netflix at all. Not even the detailed Wikipedia post mentions it. I am still confused though. Is this the Apple TV 2? People were making it sound like it was coming out fall of 2011 but that says 2010. Is that not the year it came out?

What detailed Wikipedia post?

I don't know for sure, but right now the Xbox 360 Netflix player is pretty far behind in features, lacking 1080p, 5.1 and close-caption support. Netflix widely released the tools for adding those features this summer, so I expect an update to that player soon, and the update seems like an opportune time to introduce it. I won't be heart broken if it doesn't show, inasmuch as I have a Roku 2.

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post #649 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

What detailed Wikipedia post?

This one.
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post #650 of 1529 Old 11-12-2011, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Nothing I've read about the dashboard update mentions netflix at all. Not even the detailed Wikipedia post mentions it. I am still confused though. Is this the Apple TV 2? People were making it sound like it was coming out fall of 2011 but that says 2010. Is that not the year it came out?

It came out in 2010.

The real question is: Where is Apple TV 3 with 1080P?
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post #651 of 1529 Old 11-20-2011, 03:50 PM
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So what are your guys' thoughts on adding a Roku 2 to replace my PS3 as my primary streamer? Netflix would be my primary source, but of course will also be looking at Amazon Prime and others.

Strictly speaking Netflix though (for now), how does it compare? I know the Roku 2 has 1080p/5.1 now, but I seem to recall reading about color saturation problems or perhaps framerate stuff (can't remember if it was pro or con). I am pretty happy with the PS3, but am looking at getting a Roku for less wear-and-tear on my PS3 and convenience (not having to get my lazy butt off the couch to turn it on, for example), as well as ease of use for the wife.

And as long as I'm posting, I'm looking at a BD player for my parents with Netflix streaming (they're currently using their Wii). They only have a 3 Mbps DSL so they aren't going to be concerned with HD or 5.1 or anything, but anyone have a cheapish recommendation for a player for them? I can't imagine they're going to want to spend more than $100-$150 or so. I am not sure how much better quality (if any) over the wii they can expect to get with their slow connection though.
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post #652 of 1529 Old 11-20-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Strictly speaking Netflix though (for now), how does it compare? I know the Roku 2 has 1080p/5.1 now, but I seem to recall reading about color saturation problems or perhaps framerate stuff (can't remember if it was pro or con).

Roku 2 was originally using PC colorspace (which never bothered my display) and has since been patched to fix that (of course, the original colorspace worked better on some people's displays so now they're complaining ).

There's still a bug which keeps it from recognizing that some titles have 5.1 sound and/or HD encodings; HD doesn't matter much, since you'll still get the HD encodings if you have the connection bandwidth whether the player's description advertises it or not, but 5.1 sound is a big issue, since it can't be enabled if the player doesn't know about it. It also cannot decode the 5.1 channel DD+ that Netflix streams, so you have to have it connected to an AVR which can decode it (if you want to use it--all the titles which have 5.1 sound also have stereo soundtracks).

I never use my PS3 for Netflix anymore, principally because the Roku supposedly draws about 2 watts as opposed to my launch-model 60GB PS3's 190-some and runs in complete silence.
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And as long as I'm posting, I'm looking at a BD player for my parents with Netflix streaming (they're currently using their Wii). They only have a 3 Mbps DSL so they aren't going to be concerned with HD or 5.1 or anything, but anyone have a cheapish recommendation for a player for them? I can't imagine they're going to want to spend more than $100-$150 or so. I am not sure how much better quality (if any) over the wii they can expect to get with their slow connection though.

I wholeheartedly recommend the Panasonic DMP-BDT110 3D BD player with Viera Connect network apps, including Netflix, VUDU, Amazon, CinemaNow, Pandora, YouTube, etc. Its Netflix player feature 5.1 sound and closed captions (and it can decode Netflix's 5.1 channel DD+) though not 1080p yet. $102 at Amazon as I write this.

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post #653 of 1529 Old 11-20-2011, 04:39 PM
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Thanks Michael. I have a DD+ AVR, so that's no big deal, but kind of stinks that the Roku is having trouble identifying those with 5.1. How much of an issue is this? Is it significant number of titles it's not recognizing?

Thanks for the recommendation on the BD player. Sounds like a winner. Any idea on if the quality will be better than their Wii, given their slow connection (as I said, I know they won't get HD, and they don't have a 5.1 system, so they don't care about that). I would hope it would still look better than the Wii, but I don't really know...
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post #654 of 1529 Old 11-20-2011, 06:41 PM
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Assuming the Panasonic receives the same AVC encodes as the PS3 (and it seems it does), the quality even at SD is much better than the Wii (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1365060).
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post #655 of 1529 Old 11-21-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R. Scherr View Post

Great article about Netflix and 1080P devices. Tells who has it, who will get it, and when.

http://www.techofthehub.com/2011/10/...ing-to-my.html

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Read the article - no mention of PCs. Is 1080p available for streaming to PCs?
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post #656 of 1529 Old 11-21-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmyv View Post

Read the article - no mention of PCs. Is 1080p available for streaming to PCs?

For this kind of theatrical release/television online rental/purchase video, no. Some sites, like VUDU, won't even give you 720p for PC download (others will, like Amazon and Zune). IP holder paranoia --they don't want their highest quality product to be downloaded to PCs, lest the DRM be broken and it be scattered to the four winds via network file sharing. They should grow up and realize that that genie has long been out of the bottle, as people rip, post and download whole BD images every day.

As is, you can get 720p and closed captions/soft subtitles from Netflix on a PC, but not 1080p or 5.1 sound.

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post #657 of 1529 Old 11-21-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

For this kind of theatrical release/television online rental/purchase video, no. Some sites, like VUDU, won't even give you 720p for PC download (others will, like Amazon and Zune). IP holder paranoia --they don't want their highest quality product to be downloaded to PCs, lest the DRM be broken and it be scattered to the four winds via network file sharing. They should grow up and realize that that genie has long been out of the bottle, as people rip, post and download whole BD images every day.

As is, you cannot get 720p from Netflix on a PC.

Yeh, I'd noticed that about Vudu. I just bought a Sharp 52LC830 and it will do Vudu's HDX, but, I don't see it listed in the article about supporting Netflix 1080p.

Have been holding off on reactivating my Netflix account as my impression was that the streaming selection wasn't that great.

My DSL is currently 7M (speedtests at 6.3) and I just ordered an upgrade of that to 12M, so, should have the bandwidth to handle 1080p streaming from either Netflix or Vudu.
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post #658 of 1529 Old 11-21-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Thanks Michael. I have a DD+ AVR, so that's no big deal, but kind of stinks that the Roku is having trouble identifying those with 5.1. How much of an issue is this? Is it significant number of titles it's not recognizing?

It's not that many, but it's pissed me off once or twice. For instance, I had to choose between watching Trollhunter in 1080p with stereo sound on the Roku 2 or 720p with 5.1 sound on my Panasonic BDT110. Surround sound won out, being much more of an immersion factor for me than PQ (Trollhunter is one of those found-video-from-a-shakey-handheld-camera films anyway, like Blair Witch and Cloverfield).

Another annoyance of the Roku 2 Netflix player is that titles with 5.1 sound default to stereo, so you have to remember to enable it in the menus. The two other devices that I have whose Netflix players support 5.1 sound default to 5.1 sound. I can understand their reason for this, since if you stream DD+ to a device which doesn't support it, you probably won't get any coherent sound (true of my old AVR), which could create customer confusion. (Of my other two devices, the BDT110 and PS3, both can convert the DD+ into something more common. The BDT110 can also bitstream it, if you have it set up to bitstream such formats from BD; the PS3 can only convert it, at this point into a thin-sounding basic DD5.1). The Roku should be able to detect whether the downstream device can handle DD5.1 by examining its E-EDID attributes block; barring that, there should at least be a persistent setting that the user could access. I've complained on their forum and was asked to provide a detailed summary of how I see the problem which I did. (I told them that, no offense but, as soon as a device appeared with 1080p/5.1/CC Netflix player and a 5.1 supporting Amazon player--and hopefully a VUDU player--I was going to buy it and sell my Roku).

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
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post #659 of 1529 Old 11-23-2011, 11:12 AM
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Thanks. I might hold off on the Roku for a bit.

My parents ordered the one-step above the BD player your recommended and got the Panasonic DMP-BDT210 for about $25 more. They didn't want to run a cable so needed a wireless one.

Should be there sometime this weekend so I can hook it up and see how it works for them. I'm hoping they find that Netflix looks better than it does on the Wii (despite the slow 3Mbps connection) and that buying a BD player was worth it (gotta get them to up their Netflix plan to include BDs). Being in their 60's, they may not care that much....but I do!

Now to hook them up with a cheap Harmony remote for Christmas, and they'll be all set.
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post #660 of 1529 Old 11-23-2011, 12:00 PM
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Don't let me put you off the Roku 2--for the moment, it's the best Netflix player I have out of 6 (Roku 2, PS3, Xbox, BDT110, TiVo and this PC, connected to the same monitor and AVR as all the rest). It does supports everything that Netflix offers right now: 1080p video, 5.1 sound and closed-captions. It just has a couple of annoying bugs and "features" (the stereo default for titles with 5.1 sound is intentional); I expect that these will work themselves out. Still, I always keep my eyes open for something better .

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
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