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post #61 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 09:23 AM
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Also, I only have one HDMI input on my TV (five year old 720p rear projection DLP)and currently have an Xbox hooked up to it via HDMI. The Fios box I have hooked up via component. I also have a DVI input. Anyone know if I will get sound or any issues if I use an HDMI to DVI adapter to connect the PS3 to my TV. Wondering if anyone is streaming this way.
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post #62 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay7 View Post

Also, I only have one HDMI input on my TV (five year old 720p rear projection DLP)and currently have an Xbox hooked up to it via HDMI. The Fios box I have hooked up via component. I also have a DVI input. Anyone know if I will get sound or any issues if I use an HDMI to DVI adapter to connect the PS3 to my TV. Wondering if anyone is streaming this way.

DVI is video only so if you use the converter you'll need a separate audio connection. Another option would be an HDMI switcher like this one for example.

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post #63 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 10:03 AM
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That switch is HDMI 1.1 compliant. Will it work or should I look for one that is at least 1.3 compliant.
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post #64 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 01:38 PM
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I haven't tried anything but my HTPC and my TV (LG LE8500) which has Netflix built in. The HTPC Netflix quality sucks. On the other hand Netflix through my TV directly is as good if not better than my cable box especially for SD feeds. I have a 20MB connection though so I'm sure that helps getting me the highest quality.
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post #65 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 03:26 PM
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Are all you streaming connected to ethernet or wifi and do you notice a difference? I have Verizon Fios if it matters and was considering the PS3.

Mine are all hard-wired and have worked perfectly.

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post #66 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 06:18 PM
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Most of my Netflix streaming has been older SD British TV shows which I usually view on the Wii, wirelessly of course, without problems 99% of the time. I would occasionally watch a High-Def movie on my old Samsung BD player, again wirelessly, and found the streams would stop occasionally and/or drop down in quality.

When I bought my new Panasonic BDT-100 I was too cheap to pay for the wireless dongle and so hooked it up via Cat5, and the three or four HD movies I have watched so far have been perfect...
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post #67 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 07:48 PM
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All of my A/V components are located in the same room with my cable modem and router (television, AVR, Xbox, PS3, TiVo and PC); I only use wireless for the PS3 in the family room and for various portable devices.

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post #68 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I think wired is the only serious choice for streaming video. Unless running the wire is highly impractical, why introduce the uncertainty of a wireless link?
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post #69 of 1331 Old 01-11-2011, 11:01 PM
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rpauls (or anyone else who knows)--could you answer my question about how long it takes for an HD stream to start playing on the Roku and ATV? Thanks.

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post #70 of 1331 Old 01-12-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

rpauls (or anyone else who knows)--could you answer my question about how long it takes for an HD stream to start playing on the Roku and ATV? Thanks.

On the Roku, not very long at all. From the time I hit play, a small bar comes up with four white dots and the HD indicator and after maybe 10-18 secs the stream begins. Sometimes it is even shorter. this is true, for me anyway, even when I stream a film during prime hours, usually starting around 8pm.

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post #71 of 1331 Old 01-12-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

I think wired is the only serious choice for streaming video. Unless running the wire is highly impractical, why introduce the uncertainty of a wireless link?

not necessarily...i am not facing any lags or dropped connections while viewing streaming via wireless connection...it works very well and allows for much greater freedom in the placement of the router, tv etc...my router is about 30 feet from the oppo93 and the signal strength is consistently between 86 and 100 % (whatever that means)...

also, given that the ipad does an adequate job with netflix on 3G (not hd of course), a wireless network at home is a huge improvement.
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post #72 of 1331 Old 01-12-2011, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

rpauls (or anyone else who knows)--could you answer my question about how long it takes for an HD stream to start playing on the Roku and ATV? Thanks.

If you need an exact measurement I can clock it for you and report back, but I would say ATV2 and Roku XDS are both about 10-15 seconds.
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post #73 of 1331 Old 01-12-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subavision212 View Post

On the Roku, not very long at all. From the time I hit play, a small bar comes up with four white dots and the HD indicator and after maybe 10-18 secs the stream begins. Sometimes it is even shorter. this is true, for me anyway, even when I stream a film during prime hours, usually starting around 8pm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

If you need an exact measurement I can clock it for you and report back, but I would say ATV2 and Roku XDS are both about 10-15 seconds.

So, it sounds as though Roku and ATV2 are not using adaptive bit rate streaming to implement "instant on" like the PS3. Thanks for the info.

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post #74 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

If you need an exact measurement I can clock it for you and report back, but I would say ATV2 and Roku XDS are both about 10-15 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

So, it sounds as though Roku and ATV2 are not using adaptive bit rate streaming to implement "instant on" like the PS3. Thanks for the info.

Still several orders of magnitude better than two days waiting for the mailman to bring a red envelope though
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post #75 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

So, it sounds as though Roku and ATV2 are not using adaptive bit rate streaming to implement "instant on" like the PS3. Thanks for the info.

No, I don't think they are. On ATV and Roku the video starts out sharp and does not appear to improve over time as on the PS3, which is another indicator that the stream bitrate is not ramping up. Actually, I prefer this delayed method. I'd rather wait 10 seconds and say wow vs seeing low quality SD at first and saying yuck. If only they could match the PS3 PQ.
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post #76 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kjroddy View Post

Still several orders of magnitude better than two days waiting for the mailman to bring a red envelope though

But I do love getting that red envelope in the mail, especially when there's a juicy new Blu-ray title inside.

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post #77 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

No, I don't think they are. On ATV and Roku the video starts out sharp and does not appear to improve over time as on the PS3, which is another indicator that the stream bitrate is not ramping up. Actually, I prefer this delayed method. I'd rather wait 10 seconds and say wow vs seeing low quality SD at first and saying yuck. If only they could match the PS3 PQ.

Well, if they did, they'd probably cost $300 too.

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post #78 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

But I do love getting that red envelope in the mail, especially when there's a juicy new Blu-ray title inside.

And if it's a film that you haven't been able to find forever. That is one aspect of Netflix I love. Perfect example was, after years of waiting, finally able to see ALL of the Blind Dead movies thanks to Netflix.

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post #79 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

No, I don't think they are. On ATV and Roku the video starts out sharp and does not appear to improve over time as on the PS3, which is another indicator that the stream bitrate is not ramping up. Actually, I prefer this delayed method. I'd rather wait 10 seconds and say wow vs seeing low quality SD at first and saying yuck. If only they could match the PS3 PQ.

First off, no Netflix stream I've ever seen has ever made me say "Wow!" . Having seen the best of Blu-ray, that's what it takes to get that reaction out of me now.

Second, you and I could not be more in disagreement. The ramp up can be extremely quick, a lot quicker than that buffer-enough-of-the-highest-rate-the-connection-can-handle idiocy. If you're starting a stream from the beginning, the ramp-up is over long before the title sequence is over and the "yucky" lowest bit rate initial frames are gone almost immediately. Waiting 10+ seconds for a stream to start up is extremely annoying. The instant start is like changing a channel on my cable box, much faster than starting disc playback. It's a beautiful thing and the primary reason that the PS3 is my favorite right now . (Not enough know 5.1 and/or 1080p titles to make much difference yet).

Third, I'm pretty certain that all or most streaming devices will eventually do this. It's far too positive a competitive bullet-point for them to ignore. Instant gratification is what streaming video is all about. (I can see the ads now, using comic exaggeration--one family hits PLAY and they instantly start watching the film; the other family hits PLAY and sits around waiting, getting bored, drifting off to sleep ).

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post #80 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

First off, no Netflix stream I've ever seen has ever made me say "Wow!" . Having seen the best of Blu-ray, that's what it takes to get that reaction out of me now.

Second, you and I could not be more in disagreement. The ramp up can be extremely quick, a lot quicker than that buffer-enough-of-the-highest-rate-the-connection-can-handle idiocy. If you're starting a stream from the beginning, the ramp-up is over long before the title sequence is over and the "yucky" lowest bit rate initial frames are gone almost immediately. Waiting 10+ seconds for a stream to start up is extremely annoying. The instant start is like changing a channel on my cable box, much faster than starting disc playback. It's a beautiful thing and the primary reason that the PS3 is my favorite right now . (Not enough know 5.1 and/or 1080p titles to make much difference yet).

Third, I'm pretty certain that all or most streaming devices will eventually do this. It's far too positive a competitive bullet-point for them to ignore. Instant gratification is what streaming video is all about. (I can see the ads now, using comic exaggeration--one family hits PLAY and they instantly start watching the film; the other family hits PLAY and sits around waiting, getting bored, drifting off to sleep ).

Well I guess I should count my blessings. I still say wow with some HD netflix, and I don't consider 10 seconds to long to wait ;-)
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post #81 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

Well I guess I should count my blessings. I still say wow with some HD netflix, and I don't consider 10 seconds to long to wait ;-)

I agree. Don't know why so many people are so unhappy with all this. I think it's great since it's always about WHAT you are watching that matters to me, and not a 100% pristine presentation (especially if it's not the fault of my equipment). I say hang in there, enjoy your shows and films and let the technology improve.

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post #82 of 1331 Old 01-13-2011, 03:57 PM
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not necessarily...i am not facing any lags or dropped connections while viewing streaming via wireless connection...it works very well and allows for much greater freedom in the placement of the router, tv etc...my router is about 30 feet from the oppo93 and the signal strength is consistently between 86 and 100 % (whatever that means)...

+1
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post #83 of 1331 Old 01-15-2011, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been researching this and it appears the hardware is changing so rapidly that older answers to this question are no longer accurate.

Given that the new Roku contains 1080p and 5.1 audio, is it now as good/better than the PS3?

I want to buy the very best possible Netflix streaming device. Here is what I am considering at present.

(1) Roku XDS
(2) Apple TV
(3) LG brp-550
(4) Oppo brp-93
(5) PS3

Is there anything else? Which is the very best?

Ok, I've been testing for a week or so now and here are my conclusions.

So far I have tested the Apple TV 2, the Roku XDS, and the PS3 slim. All these products are very good each with different strengths and weaknesses.

In terms of picture quality I rank them as follows from best to worst.

PS3
ATV
Roku

In terms of user experience I rank them as

ATV
Roku
PS3

In terms of variety of channels

Roku
ATV
PS3

For these tests I am using a 1080p TV (LG60pk550), and in order to level the playing field have set the PS3 to output 720p like the ATV and Roku. My cable modem is 7mbps and nothing else is allowed to use bandwidth during the tests.

The most important aspect to me is PQ, and the PS3 clearly beats the second place ATV in this regard. Even at 720p it is noticeably sharper with better color saturation and fewer compression artifacts. The ATV has a particular tendency to introduce a smearing/blocking effect on solid background colors or patches of green trees or grass. The PS3 still shows some of this, but it is not nearly as pronounced. The Roku has the least amount of smearing, but lower overall PQ otherwise and the most video noise of the three.

It is worth noting that the difference between the PS3 and ATV PQ is really only apparent when playing HD streams. The SD streams look nearly identical on both. The PS3 PQ is excellent at 720, and does not get any better if I change its output to 1080p, which means to me that my TV is doing about as good at scaling as the PS3 from 720.

The second most important aspect to me is the user interface. In this regard, the ATV really shines. It is so smartly organized and a pleasure to use. Makes me want to choose it just for this alone.

The Roku wins hands down if number of channels available is a concern. To me it is not.

My Oppo 93 just arrived today and I plan to run similar tests on it over the next few days and will report my findings.
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post #84 of 1331 Old 01-16-2011, 10:19 AM
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Bumping this thread... rpauls I see you're posting on the Oppo thread as well.

Curious if you've done your netflix comparison on the BDP-93's hdmi2 output yet? Let us know your impressions...
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post #85 of 1331 Old 01-17-2011, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Bumping this thread... rpauls I see you're posting on the Oppo thread as well.

Curious if you've done your netflix comparison on the BDP-93's hdmi2 output yet? Let us know your impressions...

Regarding the Oppo 93, yes, I did try both its HDMI1 and HDMI2 outputs and so far have not seen much difference. Maybe slightly more smearing/ghosting on HDMI1, but this is secondary compared to the overall difference in PQ I'm seeing between the Oppo and PS3. I posted this comparison in the Oppo thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19842125

The PS3 deftly beats the Oppo 93 in terms of Netflix streaming, at least to my eyes.

So I would say in terms of PQ the ranking is now as follows:

PS3
ATV 2
Oppo 93
Roku XDS

With the biggest difference being between 1st and 2nd place.
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post #86 of 1331 Old 01-17-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by plasma21 View Post
not necessarily...i am not facing any lags or dropped connections while viewing streaming via wireless connection...it works very well and allows for much greater freedom in the placement of the router, tv etc...my router is about 30 feet from the oppo93 and the signal strength is consistently between 86 and 100 % (whatever that means)...

also, given that the ipad does an adequate job with netflix on 3G (not hd of course), a wireless network at home is a huge improvement.
What type of router do you have? How many other devices to you have on your network. Do you do any packet shaping to prioritize the Netflix traffic? I have an Apple Airport Extreme (with N) going to a new Apple TV (with N as well), and I notice occasional buffering. I would assume this is due to the internet, except that I live in the downtown of a medium sized city and have a reasonably fast and steady cable connection. I do have issues streaming flac files to my Squeezebox over G, which leads me to believe it could be the wireless speed. Distance is not an issue as both devices are within 15 feet of the router.
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post #87 of 1331 Old 01-18-2011, 07:20 AM
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Actually, as a small point of correction, the AppleTV 2 supports 5.1 audio from Netflix streams.

According to Apple's PR department, this isn't true. Only stereo from Netflix, but 5.1 audio on most titles from iTunes.

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post #88 of 1331 Old 01-18-2011, 10:51 AM
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What type of router do you have? How many other devices to you have on your network.

I have a netgear 3500, connection speed is approx 30 Mbps. I dont even know what packet shaping is so I doubt I have it. Router is used for a smattering of apple devices (ipad, iphone) and a couple of computers and a laptop, in addition to the Oppo 93 for netflix. Connection speed at Oppo location is around 25 Mbps.

In a few weeks of heavy use I have never observed any buffering or dropped connection. FFwd works reasonably well also...
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post #89 of 1331 Old 01-18-2011, 04:11 PM
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I'm pretty dissatisfied with the quality of netflix streaming and I suspect that some of it has to do with my components (panning judder/jitter which looks like 6fps). I'd like to try a few other routes to experiment. Presently I'm connected to my new 50inch samsung plasma via a samsung bdc6500 blu ray player.

Recently I've noticed quite a few game player stations at the thrift stores following a Christmas season full of new players under the tree. I didn't stop to note whether they were ps3, wii, or xbox, but I called netflix to inquire as to what versions/flavors I might use to connect if I were to come across a likely candidate.

Netflix told me that any model of the above, even a 2001 wii player, would stream their content following a software/firmware update.

Would anyone recommend any player to look for specifically? Or should I just go purchase one at walmart/bestbuy and return it if it does not improve my situation?
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post #90 of 1331 Old 01-18-2011, 04:48 PM
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Would anyone recommend any player to look for specifically? Or should I just go purchase one at walmart/bestbuy and return it if it does not improve my situation?

The PS3 is my current favorite (though I like the Xbox's UI better), due to its use of adaptive bit rate streaming to acheive "instant on" playback. (It starts within a couple of seconds of your pressing PLAY with a crappy low bit rate encoding and seamlessly switches to progressively higher bit rate/higher PQ encodings until it's displaying one at the highest rate that your connection to Netflix' server allows; this ramp up can be very quick. Thereafter, if bandwidth on your connection fluctuates, it can seamlessly switch to lower and higher rate encodings as appropriate). The PS3 also uniquely has 5.1 sound and 1080p encodings for a subset of its titles; none of the others have this yet.

You should avoid the Wii, since it cannot display high definition streams.

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