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Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C
10:16 PM Liked: 74
post #1321 of 1554
08-14-2014 | Posts: 3,076
Joined: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
If Michael isn't stating it clearly enough, 1080SD is Sony's abbreviation for 1080p Super HD, not Standard Definition. That would be an impossibility. Yes, it's a nonsensical and confusing way to do it, but that's Sony for you. It's as if they're extraterrestrials, unfamiliar with human culture and terminology. "SD, sure we can use that. It couldn't possibly already be the universally accepted term for the exact opposite of what we mean."
Erm, the streaming device being spoken of by mikescott and Lebowski, is the WD TV Live. A recent firmware update has resulted in a glitch that has 1080 Super HD mislabeled as 1080SD in the onscreen overlay on the WD's Netflix app.
This has happened before on the PS3, and was corrected a short time afterwards.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
10:22 PM Liked: 784
post #1322 of 1554
08-14-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
If Michael isn't stating it clearly enough, 1080SD is Sony's abbreviation for 1080p Super HD...

We were talking about Netflix on a WD TV Live, not a Sony device. The "problem" is not the fault of the OEM, but in the web-tech code (HTML5 and JavaScript) downloaded into the device by Netflix at app start up. I suspect that the same "bug" (if an error in debug code can be called a "bug") would be present on my Sony BDP-S390, the only other device that I have with that version of the Netflix app and the stream info overlay, but I don't feel like plugging it in to see. It's not present in that display in the Netflix app on TiVo Roamio (which says "1080 Super HD" and not "1080 HD" because the 3850 Kbps encodes are gone; TV Live and BDP-S390 never said "Super HD"). Of course, the TiVo Roamio has the new UI which is written in JavaScript running not on Webkit, but a pared down, purpose optimized rendering/layout engine of Netflix's design.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
05:20 AM Liked: 18
post #1323 of 1554
08-15-2014 | Posts: 1,638
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Yes, I did, with "El Fuente". You'll note my discussion of the new features in that same post. No such thing as "1080 SD", anyway--1080 res is HD. Where are you that those clips are not available?

Michael, thanks for confirming that. Good to hear Super HD is still supported. I know there is no 1080 SD but I wonder why they are using so misleading terms if SD really is their way of telling it is Super HD. Those clips are not available here in Europe where Netflix has very limited title selection.


I don't see any difference in Netflix ui between WDTV Live firmware 2.01.86 and 2.02.32 other than 1080 HD / 1080 SD video info. Did they actually update Netflix player in this firmware or was is funny coincidence that Netflix just did something at their end? Someone who still has older 2.01.86 firmware maybe could verify that?


PS. I must be getting old as I just remembered that couple months ago my WDTV actually showed ONCE 1080 SD for one title and I was scratching my head what the heck was that and I did stop playing that title and then restarted it again and display was showing 1080 HD so I thought it must have been some bug in the software. Every time I play something I check in the beginning that display and before this new firmware I only saw that happening once. My internet connection is plenty fast so it is not a limiting factor.
Apostate's Avatar Apostate
09:59 AM Liked: 134
post #1324 of 1554
08-15-2014 | Posts: 930
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
Erm, the streaming device being spoken of by mikescott and Lebowski, is the WD TV Live.
Right but mdavej's post was still funny though.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
04:49 PM Liked: 784
post #1325 of 1554
08-15-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Michael, thanks for confirming that. Good to hear Super HD is still supported.

Now that the 4300- and 5800 Kbps encodes are the only 1080p ones, they probably shouldn't be distinguished as "Super HD". They're just Netflix 1080p, of which there are two encodes just as there are two 720p ones (2350- and 3000 Kbps).

Quote:
I know there is no 1080 SD but I wonder why they are using so misleading terms if SD really is their way of telling it is Super HD.

Again, it should be understood that that display is not meant for you and I, though they obviously don't care whether we use it (otherwise, knowing that people are using it they'd hide it). It's unsupported debugging code. The programmers know that 1080p is not SD and probably don't care about the bug. Once it was far more screwed up, with some text overlapping some of the other text, making it virtually unreadable (though I could see well enough to interpret the important part). It took them quite a while to fix that and someone will probably fix this insignificant bug in passing one of these days.

Quote:
I don't see any difference in Netflix ui between WDTV Live firmware 2.01.86 and 2.02.32 other than 1080 HD / 1080 SD video info. Did they actually update Netflix player in this firmware or was is funny coincidence that Netflix just did something at their end?

The latter; I plugged in my Sony BDP-S390, which has the same old common Netflix UI with the stream info overlay and it too says "1080 SD" now. As I stated above, this Netflix interface is written in web authoring languages (HTML5, JavaScript, CSS3, etc) running on top of a port of the Webkit engine, a sort of mini web browser. Most of that web-tech code is downloaded every time that you start the player, so you automatically get any new features, fixes or bugs that they've recently introduced during their development efforts. It's more relevant to check the Netflix-player-specific version information that you can get to by entering UP-UP-DOWN-DOWN-LEFT-RIGHT-LEFT-RIGHT-UP-UP-UP-UP (an homage to an old Konami video game cheat code ). I just checked on my TV Live and it says that it's version 3.1.3 built on 4 August. (In the new common Netflix UI you can get to that information directly through the menu).
Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C
11:47 PM Liked: 74
post #1326 of 1554
08-15-2014 | Posts: 3,076
Joined: Jun 2004
Using the PS3 tonight-hadn't used it in a while to watch Netflix' US library. And I noticed that ''Max'' wasn't present among the genre rows. Max isn't available outside the US, so I didn't realize it wasn't there until I remembered I was 'in the US'.

If you didn't like Max and never used it, can you check and see if it's present on your PS3 app? If you did like/use it, look to see if it's still there. I'm hoping they (finally) made it optional.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
03:42 PM Liked: 784
post #1327 of 1554
08-16-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
If you didn't like Max and never used it, can you check and see if it's present on your PS3 app? If you did like/use it, look to see if it's still there. I'm hoping they (finally) made it optional.

It's gone. I can find no option in the app for enabling it; I checked the menu. My guess is that they decided that it wasn't being used enough to be worth maintaining.

I never used my PS3 for streaming; it draws about 50x as much power as my Roku 3. Max just seemed a goofy idea to me in any case.
reddice's Avatar reddice
09:45 PM Liked: 58
post #1328 of 1554
08-16-2014 | Posts: 2,060
Joined: Sep 2008
Max was the most useless feature. I used it once and it was so stupid.
Mark12547's Avatar Mark12547
11:24 PM Liked: 133
post #1329 of 1554
08-16-2014 | Posts: 698
Joined: Nov 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Max was the most useless feature. I used it once and it was so stupid.
What was "Max"?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
03:12 AM Liked: 784
post #1330 of 1554
08-17-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark12547 View Post
What was "Max"?

http://blog.netflix.com/2013/06/let-...de-on-ps3.html
xcrunner529's Avatar xcrunner529
10:50 AM Liked: 15
post #1331 of 1554
08-17-2014 | Posts: 536
Joined: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
If Michael isn't stating it clearly enough, 1080SD is Sony's abbreviation for 1080p Super HD, not Standard Definition. That would be an impossibility. Yes, it's a nonsensical and confusing way to do it, but that's Sony for you. It's as if they're extraterrestrials, unfamiliar with human culture and terminology. "SD, sure we can use that. It couldn't possibly already be the universally accepted term for the exact opposite of what we mean."

They also insist on telling you Internet Content is Ready rather than just playing it like everyone else. They definitely have interesting ways of doing things. If they made cars, when you step on the gas it wouldn't move but would instead inform you, "ready to accelerate".

My favorite Sony-ism of all is their aspect ratio setting. You get 2 options - original and fixed. Which one do you think would show an SD DVD in its "original" 4:3 aspect rather than stretched full screen? Original, right? Wrong. It's the exact opposite of what every sentient being on the planet would have guessed.
LOL all of this is so true. I had the same thoughts when I used their bluray player as my main streaming device.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
12:44 PM Liked: 18
post #1332 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 1,638
Joined: Jun 2005
Now WDTV Live crippled Netflix to 720p. I just watched a movie and it looked very soft and no matter what I did it would not go above 720p. I tried several other titles and they all are limited to 720p. Has anyone else noticed the same issue? My WDTV is running fw 2.02.32.


My TV and PC still gets 1080p Super HD, so nothing wrong with my ISP.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
03:00 PM Liked: 784
post #1333 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Now WDTV Live crippled Netflix to 720p. I just watched a movie and it looked very soft and no matter what I did it would not go above 720p. I tried several other titles and they all are limited to 720p. Has anyone else noticed the same issue? My WDTV is running fw 2.02.32.


My TV and PC still gets 1080p Super HD, so nothing wrong with my ISP.

Interesting; you're right. I don't really use my TV Live so I hadn't noticed, but I don't think that it's been that way continuously since the update; it must be something from recently.

I tried a few other things and they're all getting up the 5800 Kbps 1080p encode (they eliminated the 3850 Kbps non-Super one).
reddice's Avatar reddice
03:16 PM Liked: 58
post #1334 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 2,060
Joined: Sep 2008
Quote:
(they eliminated the 3850 Kbps non-Super one)
The dumbest move Netflix ever made. It was a perfect stream for quality and reliability. This could be the problems maybe some of the devices look for the 3850 kbps stream but can't find it and instead of going up to the 4300 kbps stream they instead get stuck at the cruddy 720p 3000 kbps stream which looks cruddy.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
04:17 PM Liked: 784
post #1335 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
It bugged me more because of my bandwidth cap, but Cox has recent amended their explanation of their caps to state that under no circumstance will they suspend service for exceeding them. Apparently the only consequence is getting pestered by e-mail.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
04:57 PM Liked: 18
post #1336 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Interesting; you're right. I don't really use my TV Live so I hadn't noticed, but I don't think that it's been that way continuously since the update; it must be something from recently.
It is definitely something very recent because with latest firmware I got 1080sd until today. I actually checked from my router and when it reported 1080sd, it was getting 0.75MB/second stream which equals super HD 5800kbps plus audio track.

However today it reports 720p and checking from my router stream was about measely 0.36MB/second so it is really only 720p player now.
I hope they will fix this and this is not intentional. If it is then that's it for me. I will not support system where they can cripple your image quality just like that.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan
06:25 PM Liked: 442
post #1337 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 28,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
It bugged me more because of my bandwidth cap, but Cox has recent amended their explanation of their caps to state that under no circumstance will they suspend service for exceeding them. Apparently the only consequence is getting pestered by e-mail.
They're probably conditioning you for the upcoming overage charges, once the 800 lb gorilla Comcast implements their overage charges you can bet all the rest of the ISPs will follow suit.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
11:16 PM Liked: 784
post #1338 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 17,868
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
It is definitely something very recent ...

I tried several other devices (Roku 3, Xbox One, TiVo Roamio, Panasonic DMP-BDT220 and the Win8 Netflix app on this PC) and of them only the Panny BDP exhibits the same problem.

Question: does your smart TV have the old Netflix common UI or the new Netflix common UI? WD TV Live and BDT220 are my only devices which still have that UI, so it could be the common denominator. EDIT: my Sony BDP-S390 has the old UI as well; I just tried it and it has the same problem. That's 3 products from 3 different OEMs: WD, Panasonic and Sony. Strong indications are that it's the old UI; it's the same JavaScript code running on every device (why they all have that "1080p SD" bug).
Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C
11:39 PM Liked: 74
post #1339 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 3,076
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Checking to see if the 720p limitation was affecting any of my devices, and encountered no issues reaching 5800kbps on my Samsung HDTV, or PS3.

But I did notice there was now ''Play from beginning'' option added to the new standard UI. So, the streaming quality issues are probably related to the change in the app.Hopefully, thry'll get the bugs sorted out asap.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
11:56 PM Liked: 784
post #1340 of 1554
08-30-2014 | Posts: 17,868
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Like I said, it appears to be the old common UI, not the new one. My Roku 3, TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, PS3 and Xbox 360 all have the new one. There haven't been any recent visible changes in the old common UI, other than the "1080 SD" thing on those devices which have the stream info overlay, undocumented debug code.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
05:25 AM Liked: 18
post #1341 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Question: does your smart TV have the old Netflix common UI or the new Netflix common UI?

My TV have the new UI and on my PC I've been using IE11 in HTML5 mode in Windows 8.1.


Anyone contacted Netflix yet and heard what is their excuse for this 720p limitation?
I'm trying but getting past the first level support is hours work, they make you do all the ridiculous steps before they even check from their own engineers.


Edit: I contacted them but they are just giving me "it is a problem with your ISP". Yeah right... Their engineers haven't heard anyone complaining about the same issue. I'm pretty much fed up about their ignorance.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
08:40 AM Liked: 353
post #1342 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 6,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
My TV have the new UI and on my PC I've been using IE11 in HTML5 mode in Windows 8.1.


Anyone contacted Netflix yet and heard what is their excuse for this 720p limitation?
I'm trying but getting past the first level support is hours work, they make you do all the ridiculous steps before they even check from their own engineers.


Edit: I contacted them but they are just giving me "it is a problem with your ISP". Yeah right... Their engineers haven't heard anyone complaining about the same issue. I'm pretty much fed up about their ignorance.
Like Mike said, this particular issue only effects the older UI. When I contacted them last night, they were not aware of the problem. I also mentioned I have Cablevision an Open Connect partner and there is no way it's an issue with the ISP. If you tell them you are only having a problem with the older interface and are streaming 1080p Super HD from another device like the Sony PS or Roku 3, they do take it seriously.

Ian
reddice's Avatar reddice
09:11 AM Liked: 58
post #1343 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 2,060
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Don't bother calling them it is a waste of time. They tell you the same scripted bull that it is your ISP's fault and to reboot your modem and router.

I wonder if the Fire TV has the same issues as it does have the older Netflix UI? I will have to try one of the example shorts to find out.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
09:29 AM Liked: 784
post #1344 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 17,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
My TV have the new UI and on my PC I've been using IE11 in HTML5 mode in Windows 8.1.

Well that's anomalous. I have 3 devices with the old UI and they're the only ones which have the problem; I've tested other devices with the new common UI (PS3, TiVo Roamio, Roku 3) or something different (Xbox One, Win8 Netflix app, IE11), and they all work fine. Like mailiang, my network provider is an Open Connect partner, so bandwidth is unlikely to be a factor. I'm fairly certain that there is a problem with the old UI; if you're seeing a problem on platforms without it, it could be something different.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
09:43 AM Liked: 18
post #1345 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
If you tell them you are only having a problem with the older interface and are streaming 1080p Super HD from another device like the Sony PS or Roku 3, they do take it seriously.

I tried everything but they are not taking it seriously. One of the claims they made is that it does not mean my ISP is working consistently even I can play 1080p in other players in my house using the same connection...


In your case, did they find reason what gives and are they going to do something to fix it?
Aryn Ravenlocke's Avatar Aryn Ravenlocke
09:45 AM Liked: 78
post #1346 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
They're probably conditioning you for the upcoming overage charges, once the 800 lb gorilla Comcast implements their overage charges you can bet all the rest of the ISPs will follow suit.
As I use COX as well, this is what I keep waiting to see happen and I fear it. The top tier package in the Phoenix area comes with a 400 GB cap. There are 4 adults and 2 children in this household and all of us get 100% of our media content via streaming devices. One of the adults takes part in an online video round table about the Arizona Diamondbacks every Sunday, and three of the four adults are also avid online gamers. We have used 874.22 GB in just the first 16 days of this billing cycle.

If they are going to start charging for overages, they need to seriously increase the data limits. Even if we removed 95% of our streaming in terms of television content, we would still blow right by the current data limits. Heaven forbid we should ever stream House of Cards in 4K.
Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C
09:47 AM Liked: 74
post #1347 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 3,076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
That's 3 products from 3 different OEMs: WD, Panasonic and Sony. Strong indications are that it's the old UI; it's the same JavaScript code running on every device (why they all have that "1080p SD" bug).
We can eliminate your Panasonic BDT220 since 720p was it's natural limit.

From another thread last month we discovered a Panasonic HDTV, which is 1080p capable, had been limited to 720p. Original poster cybergoobr reported the tv had the new UI, but re-reading his post, I'm not certain if it does, as he based it on the Netflix icon on the Vieracast menu being the new ''white background with red lettering'' vs the old red w/white font. I'll post a photo link to the new UI in his thread, and ask him to confirm which the tv has.

My Toshiba BDX3300 Blu Ray player had also been restrained to 720 as well. It has the previous UI.

With the WD TV Live affected, maybe now we can get enough noise going to them to address the issue.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
09:48 AM Liked: 18
post #1348 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Don't bother calling them it is a waste of time. They tell you the same scripted bull that it is your ISP's fault and to reboot your modem and router.
You are correct. It is easier to convince a nihilist than them.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski
09:51 AM Liked: 18
post #1349 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Well that's anomalous. I have 3 devices with the old UI and they're the only ones which have the problem; I've tested other devices with the new common UI (PS3, TiVo Roamio, Roku 3) or something different (Xbox One, Win8 Netflix app, IE11), and they all work fine. Like mailiang, my network provider is an Open Connect partner, so bandwidth is unlikely to be a factor. I'm fairly certain that there is a problem with the old UI; if you're seeing a problem on platforms without it, it could be something different.

I meant those two are still giving me 1080p without problems.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
09:56 AM Liked: 353
post #1350 of 1554
08-31-2014 | Posts: 6,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
We can eliminate your Panasonic BDT220 since 720p was it's natural limit.

From another thread last month we discovered a Panasonic HDTV, which is 1080p capable, had been limited to 720p. Original poster cybergoobr reported the tv had the new UI, but re-reading his post, I'm not certain if it does, as he based it on the Netflix icon on the Vieracast menu being the new ''white background with red lettering'' vs the old red w/white font. I'll post a photo link to the new UI in his thread, and ask him to confirm which the tv has.
.
His ST50 does not have the latest UI and neither does my S60 which is a model year newer.

Ian
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