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Video Download Services & Hardware > Best possible Netflix streaming device
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 09:59 AM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
With the WD TV Live affected, maybe now we can get enough noise going to them to address the issue.
I sure hope so. I never had high expectations about these streaming videos because client has really not much to say. If this 720p thing is intentional, it only proves my expectations. By owning blu-ray's and DVD's noboby cannot reduce their quality or revoke your right to watch them again.
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michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 10:02 AM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post
We can eliminate your Panasonic BDT220 since 720p was it's natural limit.

You're thinking of the 2011 BDT110/210/310 (I have a BDT110 as well); Panny BDPs from later model years, like the 2012 BDT220/320/500 have no such limitation.

As an aside, Xbox 360 has always been limited to 720p and still is, even though it has the new UI.
reddice's Avatar reddice 10:39 AM 08-31-2014
Why is Netflix so fascinated about there cruddy 720p. If they are intenitally limiting these older players with the older UI and they think people won't notice then they deserve to get the backlash. Still if they would have kept there 3850 kbps 1080p encode many would not even noticed as I did not. Also I will say it again but Amazon Instant at 720p blows them away in picture quality which I can swear looks like 1080p when watching certain programs.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 11:15 AM 08-31-2014
I don't think that Netflix has any fascination with 720p and if the old UI is presentedly limited to it, it's undoubtably a bug. Xbox 360 limited all video sources to 720p, presumably to make you buy Xbox Video if you wanted 1080p (they eventually allowed VUDU to sell/rent HDX). They have not placed the same stupid limitation on Xbox One.
reddice's Avatar reddice 11:31 AM 08-31-2014
Fire TV still goes up to 5800 kbps.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 03:55 PM 08-31-2014
Anyone have WDTV with older firmware and could try and see if it is also limited to 720p?
I know it shouldn't make any difference but still who knows.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 06:02 AM 09-01-2014
I contacted support again and once again their diagnosis was that internet connection is not fast and stable enough. I was playing two movies at the same time on my other players at 1080p Super HD but they told me it does not mean anything because WDTV needs more bandwidth. They suggested me getting a faster connection telling that 30Mbps is about enough for it. This is incredible.
They claim they have checked their logs showing there are a lot of WDTV Live players receiving 1080p right now, which is interesting.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 12:04 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I contacted support again and once again their diagnosis was that internet connection is not fast and stable enough. I was playing two movies at the same time on my other players at 1080p Super HD but they told me it does not mean anything because WDTV needs more bandwidth. They suggested me getting a faster connection telling that 30Mbps is about enough for it. This is incredible.
They claim they have checked their logs showing there are a lot of WDTV Live players receiving 1080p right now, which is interesting.
How would they know that? I have made several calls and never received a response like that. They changed my account settings to auto and had me log out and reset my smart TV account. Still only 720p. They assured me that they would forward the info to engineering for a resolution. I do have Open Connect, so issues with my ISP have never come up.

Ian
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 12:50 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
How would they know that?

They seems to be able to get quite a lot of information from players. They can see of course player brand and model, software version, internal LAN type (wireless or wired), detailed data stream log where they can see any fluctuations and resolution what you receiving. They claim in their logs they can see many WDTV owners getting 1080p stream without problems today as long as their line is consistently 30Mbps.


Still I find it hard to believe this problem has anything to do with my ISP because all my other players are getting 1080p Super HD just fine, even two players at the same time.


Quote:
I have made several calls and never received a response like that. They changed my account settings to auto and had me log out and reset my smart TV account. Still only 720p. They assured me that they would forward the info to engineering for a resolution. I do have Open Connect, so issues with my ISP have never come up.

Really? My experience with them in the past was as bad as this time.


I contacted them once again and reply was pretty much the same where they think it is ISP problem but they promised to forward case to engineers and asked me to try it again and contact again and they will take a look at the logs once more.


I asked them many times if they have done something to limit speed to 720p for WDTV but they said no, they don't limit speed to any players, not even for PC's. Also they had no reports from other WDTV owners having the same problem.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 01:16 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
They seems to be able to get quite a lot of information from players. They can see of course player brand and model, software version, internal LAN type (wireless or wired), detailed data stream log where they can see any fluctuations and resolution what you receiving. They claim in their logs they can see many WDTV owners getting 1080p stream without problems today as long as their line is consistently 30Mbps.


Still I find it hard to believe this problem has anything to do with my ISP because all my other players are getting 1080p Super HD just fine, even two players at the same time.





Really? My experience with them in the past was as bad as this time.


I contacted them once again and reply was pretty much the same where they think it is ISP problem but they promised to forward case to engineers and asked me to try it again and contact again and they will take a look at the logs once more.


I asked them many times if they have done something to limit speed to 720p for WDTV but they said no, they don't limit speed to any players, not even for PC's. Also they had no reports from other WDTV owners having the same problem.
I knew they could check the speed of your streams, but I didn't think they could identify which devise you were using. The 30 mbps response was just BS. I'm certain Mike Scott will tell you that.
(EDIT: The reference to 30 mbps was probably for UHD streaming, not Super HD)

Ian
reddice's Avatar reddice 02:01 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I knew they could check the speed of your streams, but I didn't think they could identify which devised you were using. The 30 mbps response was just BS. I'm certain Mike Scott will tel you that.

Ian
I have 16 mbps and I can get the 5800 kbps 1080p streams fine especially the ones that do direct peering from a 23 IP address. It will however start out at 3000 kbps 720p on my ATV3 and on my Roku 3, PS3 & PS4 after a 40 second FF and Rewind but it goes up to 5800 kbps in less than 30 seconds.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 09:31 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
I have 16 mbps and I can get the 5800 kbps 1080p streams fine especially the ones that do direct peering from a 23 IP address. It will however start out at 3000 kbps 720p on my ATV3 and on my Roku 3, PS3 & PS4 after a 40 second FF and Rewind but it goes up to 5800 kbps in less than 30 seconds.
I assume they all have the new UI? It seems to me, that maybe Netflix is not updating their older software to accept changes they are making to upgrade their system, which includes the addition of UHD streams. There is no more reference to Super HD on their site, and they probably figure that the average subscriber wouldn't know the difference anyway. After speaking to a supervisor today, who kept insisting that the problem was my TV, I'm getting the feeling that eventually anyone who's device has the older UI, will not be able to receive 1080p 5800 kbps streams.

Ian
mdavej's Avatar mdavej 10:13 PM 09-01-2014
I still get 5800 on all my old UI devices and don't on some of my new UI devices. So that isn't it.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 10:18 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I assume they all have the new UI?

I believe that my "old UI" theory has been disproved by the observations of others. I repeated my testing today and I still get the same results: my devices with the old common Netflix UI (Panasonic DMP-BDT220, Sony BDP-S390, WD TV Live) are all constrained to 720p and devices with the new common Netflix UI (Roku 3, TiVo Roamio, PS3) or something else (Xbox One, Win8 Netflix app, HTML5 Netflix in IE11 on Win8) are not. Others, however, have seen different results, including reddice, who saw 5800 Kbps 1080p in the old Netflix UI on Amazon Fire TV. Someone reported that HTML5 Netflix in IE11 on Win8 was constrained to 720p for him, while two devices with the old UI were not. I don't believe that anyone has reported that a device with the new common Netflix UI was 720p-constrained.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 05:08 AM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
The 30 mbps response was just BS. I'm certain Mike Scott will tell you that.
(EDIT: The reference to 30 mbps was probably for UHD streaming, not Super HD)

I know that is absurd and BS but still they insisted you need at least that fast internet connection for WDTV Live if you want 1080p streams. They said it does not matter if my other players are working fine with lower than 30Mpbs line. I thought they were joking but no, they were serious. They even claimed checking their logs and said they can see WDTV Live's getting 1080p streams recently if connection was at least 30Mbps. Does anyone here still get 1080p with their WDTV's??


Is anyone seeing 720p problem with WDTV Live using wired connection to router?




Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I assume they all have the new UI? It seems to me, that maybe Netflix is not updating their older software to accept changes they are making to upgrade their system, which includes the addition of UHD streams. There is no more reference to Super HD on their site, and they probably figure that the average subscriber wouldn't know the difference anyway.

I was thinking about same thing. If I recall correctly back when 1080p Super HD was new feature they did list some devices supporting it, didn't they? Also I remember WDTV Live was never advertised having Super HD support even it did work fine, until now. Now what I'm reasoning here is that maybe because they have now stopped sending "basic" 1080p streams maybe they are reducing those old UI devices without especially advertised as 1080p Super HD capable to 720p.


Quote:
After speaking to a supervisor today, who kept insisting that the problem was my TV, I'm getting the feeling that eventually anyone who's device has the older UI, will not be able to receive 1080p 5800 kbps streams.

If that turns out to be the case I will end my subscription. I won't accept that they can downgrade players like that when ever they want. Even these players are cheap, I'm not going to buy a new player quarterly. Too much hassle taking apart equipment rack every time I need to install new device and make cabling neatly. I rather spent that money for buying blu-ray's.
mdavej's Avatar mdavej 06:42 AM 09-02-2014
Still getting 5800 on old UI here.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 06:53 AM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Still getting 5800 on old UI here.

Could you list what players are those, what is your internet connetion speed and are you using wired or wireless connection between router and players?
I guess you don't have WDTV?
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 10:02 AM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
I still get 5800 on all my old UI devices and don't on some of my new UI devices. So that isn't it.
As I posted earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if anyone having the old UI will eventually only be able to receive 720p 3000 streams. I didn't experience this issue until just a few days ago, while others have been complaining about it for a few weeks. I'm going to check my wife's computer later, which has Windows 8 and see if it plays at the higher rate.


Ian
ars92's Avatar ars92 10:39 AM 09-02-2014
Just to add my experience here, my fireTV which haa the old UI, is stuck at 720p, have never seen it going to 1080p before. My LG 7540tw home theater however, has the new UI and easily moves to 1080p superHD effortlessly on my 10mbps connection.

I dont use the FireTV netflix anymore, and only use it for xbmc and hulu plus now.

I really do hope the firetv will be updated to the new UI soon.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 11:42 AM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I know that is absurd and BS but still they insisted you need at least that fast internet connection for WDTV Live if you want 1080p streams. They said it does not matter if my other players are working fine with lower than 30Mpbs line. I thought they were joking but no, they were serious. They even claimed checking their logs and said they can see WDTV Live's getting 1080p streams recently if connection was at least 30Mbps.

My WD TV Live is 720p constrained and I have 50 Mbps service with a provider who's a Netflix Open Connect partner.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 01:40 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
My WD TV Live is 720p constrained and I have 50 Mbps service with a provider who's a Netflix Open Connect partner.
Is your WDTV connected to router by wired or wireless?

Netflix support suggested me that wireless will not work for 1080p. I know that's BS too but they will not help you further unless you try all ridiculous suggestions they make.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:57 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Is your WDTV connected to router by wired or wireless?

Everything in my system is wired. I only use wireless for phones and tablets.
mdavej's Avatar mdavej 02:00 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Still getting 5800 on old UI here.

Could you list what players are those, what is your internet connetion speed and are you using wired or wireless connection between router and players?
I guess you don't have WDTV?
No WDTV. My Sony 1100 is wired to 64Mbps internet. My 3100 is wifi at about 12Mbps max. Both go straight to 5800. Win 8.1 IE11 HTML5 with a new-ish UI is now stuck @ 720p. Up until a few weeks ago, I was getting 5800 there as well. I see no pattern yet.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 02:11 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Netflix support suggested me that wireless will not work for 1080p. I know that's BS too but they will not help you further unless you try all ridiculous suggestions they make.
I made it very clear to them that my TV is only nine months old and I have had no issues streaming at the highest rate until a few days ago. My ISP is an Open Connect partner, my download speed has always been a consistent 18.75 mbps and none of my equipment has required an update or has changed. When it comes down to this issue, the only common denominator here is Netflix. Obviously something they are doing has changed, but they will never admit to that. Accountability has never been a game they're likely to play.

Ian
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 03:49 PM 09-02-2014
BTW, the Xbox One Netflix player just updated to change from a custom "Metro-ized" UI to the new common Netflix UI; as on Xbox 360, there's available Kinect voice control but no gestural control. It still ramps up to 5800 Kbps 1080p for me (started out there the first time that I tried it).
reddice's Avatar reddice 04:04 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
BTW, the Xbox One Netflix player just updated to change from a custom "Metro-ized" UI to the new common Netflix UI; as on Xbox 360, there's available Kinect voice control but no gestural control. It still ramps up to 5800 Kbps 1080p for me (started out there the first time that I tried it).
So the Xbox One now uses the new common Netflix UI too? Looks like the Fire TV is not far behind. Also I only checked the Fire TV the other day I have not checked it today to see if it goes up to 1080p. Knowing Netflix I would not be shocked if they got rid of Super HD and forced all the players to only go up to 720p and they think people won't notice. If it is Amazon Instant 720p which is over 4000 kbps according to my router they can get away with it but not Netflix at there cruddy 3000 kbps 720p.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 04:09 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Win 8.1 IE11 HTML5 with a new-ish UI is now stuck @ 720p. Up until a few weeks ago, I was getting 5800 there as well. I see no pattern yet.
This is interesting. My PC with same programs still gave me 1080p 5800kbps yesterday when I last time tried it.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 04:14 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Knowing Netflix I would not be shocked if they got rid of Super HD and forced all the players to only go up to 720p and they think people won't notice. If it is Amazon Instant 720p which is over 4000 kbps according to my router they can get away with it but not Netflix at there cruddy 3000 kbps 720p.
Difference between Netflix 720p and 1080p super HD is huge. Their 720p is hardly comparable to well mastered DVD.
reddice's Avatar reddice 04:15 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Difference between Netflix 720p and 1080p super HD is huge. Their 720p is hardly comparable to well mastered DVD.
I agree also Amazon 720p blows them away. Yes I said it again.

They did recently drop the great regular 3850 kbps 1080p streams which was stupid to begin with. However Netflix at Super HD looks amazing and I just might drop them if they drop Super HD.
Big Lebowski's Avatar Big Lebowski 04:30 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I made it very clear to them that my TV is only nine months old and I have had no issues streaming at the highest rate until a few days ago. My ISP is an Open Connect partner, my download speed has always been a consistent 18.75 mbps and none of my equipment has required an update or has changed. When it comes down to this issue, the only common denominator here is Netflix. Obviously something they are doing has changed, but they will never admit to that. Accountability has never been a game they're likely to play.

Ian
I tried to explain them the same that my WDTV has been rock solid for months and nothing in my gear has been changed just before 720p problem started. Customer support persons answering the phone obviously have no clue and more technical persons from who they finally ask help once they have made client do all the ridiculous tests don't seem much better. After many many pointless tests they got information from their guru that problem must be my hdmi-cable. At that point I was banging my head againts the wall.

I guess I will try contact them one more time and hope I get to speak with somebody who is capable of logical thinking.
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