Digital Concert Hall dot com, Berlin Philharmoniker - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 02-05-2011, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Digital Concert Hall dot com, aka Berlin Philharmoniker is accessible via http//internet.sony.tv/berlinphil or http://www.digitalconcerthall.com

Live broadcasts are accessible only on subscription via P.C.'s with Flash 10 (at the time of writing this original post, February 5, 2011).

On-demand HD video is accessible on subscription via some Sony internet enabled HDTV's and Blu-Ray Players and on P.C.'s.

One purpose of this thread is to discuss the technical capabilities of the live and on-demand historical streams.

A second purpose of this discussion thread is to point out to curious consumers particular performances worthy of consideration.

At this time, it looks like there are three (3) different types of subscriptions available: a) Daily, b) Monthly and c) Annual.

Given that I just signed up for the monthly, I've already discovered some gem performances:

18/12/2010
Berliner Philharmoniker
Neeme Järvi
Arcadi Volodos

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
Suite from the opera-ballet Mlada (19:10)
Piotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

Piano Concerto No. 1 in B flat minor (43:48)
Arcadi Volodos Piano

Sergei Taneyev
Symphony No. 4 in C minor
(45:56)

I've only noticed this service mentioned once in one other thread within AVS -- Blu Ray player discussion.

Does anyone know what the audio bit-stream code and rate is for this pay-subscription service ? The reason I'm asking is because I'm feeding from a Sony HX-701-55 internet HDTV thru toslink fiber optic to a Marantz receiver. Am wondering if the toslink fiber optic cable might throttle the audio stream. Am wondering if I acquire a Sony 770 (or soon to be 780) Blu-Ray player that has the conversion widget and then feed HDMI from that (hypothetical) Sony 770 or 780 to the Marantz receiver, if the resulting audio will sound even better ?

Don't get me wrong... it sounds pretty darn good presently. Just surprised it is stereo audio. Am wondering if that is a limitation of the firmware software wideget inside this particular model of Sony internet HDTV. Numerous overhead microphones are visible within the video. It seems that the perception that the on-demand feed has been mixed to emphasize certain lead instrumentals at particular times.

Anyway, I'm curious what others think of the Berlin Philharmoniker internet stream audio/visual service titled "Digital Concert Hall dot com". Seems like a pretty good value to me. World class performances in a state-of-the-art facility for a reasonable "admission" or "access" fee.

Signed,


Leo Henton

just a consumer

not affiliated with Sony
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post #2 of 26 Old 02-13-2011, 05:36 PM
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After watching last week's performance of Mahler #3, I'm moving up to Sony's 46" Google HD TV and upgrading my sound system to 5.1. Don't know if I can even get BPO online there but if not, I'll take it back to Best Buy. I agree with all you've said...it's really a bargain.
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post #3 of 26 Old 09-26-2012, 12:37 PM
 
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At this time, I'm thinking of upgrading to a Sony BDP-790 Blue ray player in order to enjoy enhanced audio capability of Digital Concert Hal "dot" com. I'm under the impression the Berlin Philimoniker has upgraded their source technology to allow live-streaming to some or most 2011-2012 Sony products.

Am bumping this thread to ask for advice from any lurkers / readers / posters that have more current Sony equipment than I. Does the Sony 2012 Sony products sound better and does the audio codec feed thru HDMI (better than a toslink spdif connection) ? Without first hand knowledge, it is only an assumption that audio codec actually feeds thru HDMI. Questions submitted to Berlin Philamoniker or Sony are both met with a shrug.

Thanks for your time and consideration.
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post #4 of 26 Old 05-21-2013, 09:46 PM
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I have FIOS 75MB/35MB fiber service that is rock solid and never goes below 70MB down. I have two Sony 5100 new Blu-ray players.

While I can play the Berlin recordings with no problem on my PC, my hardwired Blu-ray players in different rooms both stop about every 2-3 minutes for about a minute claiming I have a low speed internet problem. I can test before, during and after the glitches and I see no measured drop at all, so I think it is something to do with the player. I tried running them wireless, but that didn't help.

Sony makes one higher end model now called an S790. Perhaps that would fix my problem.

I don't a clue as to what is going on. I can stream Netflix through the player ok.

Help please
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post #5 of 26 Old 05-29-2013, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Standby. Have recently purchased a sony 5100, but have not hooked it up yet. Will let you know how it goes with digitalconcerthall
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post #6 of 26 Old 05-30-2013, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Standby due to technical difficulties, as the screen used to say in the Old Days. Presently cannot get any video display on Sony BDP-S5100. Will keep at it. Forgot to reboot at 1 a/m/ earlier today.
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post #7 of 26 Old 05-31-2013, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony S5100 locked up roally while attempting to playnhk tv app over net. Still have not linked to digitalconcerthall yet.
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Henton View Post

At this time, I'm thinking of upgrading to a Sony BDP-790 Blue ray player in order to enjoy enhanced audio capability of Digital Concert Hal "dot" com. I'm under the impression the Berlin Philimoniker has upgraded their source technology to allow live-streaming to some or most 2011-2012 Sony products.

Am bumping this thread to ask for advice from any lurkers / readers / posters that have more current Sony equipment than I. Does the Sony 2012 Sony products sound better and does the audio codec feed thru HDMI (better than a toslink spdif connection) ? Without first hand knowledge, it is only an assumption that audio codec actually feeds thru HDMI. Questions submitted to Berlin Philarmoniker or Sony are both met with a shrug.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

We've been using our Sony NSC-GS8 Google TV unit for a couple of months. So far, the archived Philharmoniker concerts have been pretty much flawless, end to end, but we were very disappointed with the first live concert we tried to watch last week. It was disastrous, wit the picture almost constantly breaking up. The audio was OK, generally, but unfortunately the transmission froze up completely every few minutes, or so, and that condition continued throughout the concert. After that completed, we immediately selected another archived concert, and it was flawless, again, so it seems there is some key difference with archival vs. live that I don't yet understand. I'm thinking it was a problem with the demands of live streaming, and that perhaps it is intolerant of retransmissions, since it is real-time, as opposed to archival streams, where perhaps retries are permitted. That might cover up marginality in the transmisison of signal, whereas it falls on its butt when realtime.

I have a request in to the Berlin Philharmoniker for help or advice. They acknowledged my query, but haven't responded to the question yet, however. I did ask them if there is any test available that might emulate the streaming demands, that we could use for diagnostic purposes. I would rather be doing my trial and error attempts to fix it now, rather than while a live concert is in progress.

I haven't compared sound quality between spdif and HDMI yet. I have it set up to use the spdif connection, and the sound quality is very good, I think. I know the dynamic range is very wide, and I don't hear any distortion at all, through our Onkyo 717 amp and JBL corner horn speakers.

FWIW - We're on TWC, with 20mbps down and 2 mpbs up.

VicW
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post #9 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:13 PM
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I expect that subscribers to the Berlin Philharmoniker series who are also active on AVS may be few and far between, but I would really appreciate any feedback regarding the playback behavior with the most recent concert, first of the 2013-2014 season, which included the last three Mozart symphonies. We had a terrible time with trying to watch that concert live, with pretty constant breakup of video, occasional sound issues, and frequent freezes, despite our success with playback of archived concerts.

After about a week, they posted the concert in the archive, which we tried to watch, but even though the selection display for the concert appeared normally on the screen, any selection to watch the concert, or watch any of the individual symphonies resulted in a message stating "That video doesn't exist." That is mighty frustrating for us. We have made an inquiry to the Berlin folks, but no response to that yet.

If any of you have had a similar experience, or success with the archival version of that concert on your Sony NSZ-GS8 or 7, or other Sony device, I hope you can post that on this thread.

VicW
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post #10 of 26 Old 09-11-2013, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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For what it is worth I returned the Sony S5100 bluray player months ago. Have acquired Samsung plama 64F8500 hdtv recently. Will report on that experience with digitalconcerthall next week.
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post #11 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionanimal View Post

For what it is worth I returned the Sony S5100 bluray player months ago. Have acquired Samsung plama 64F8500 hdtv recently. Will report on that experience with digitalconcerthall next week.

I'm curious about your experience with digitconcerthall that might be the cause of you returning the S5100.

In my case, on the Sony GS8 GoogleTV unit, I have superb streaming and play on archived concerts, but live streaming has been a disaster throughout the two concerts that we have tried to watch live. Berlin tells me they don't have a problem.

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post #12 of 26 Old 10-27-2013, 10:55 AM
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So far, I've tried to watch every live Berlin Philharmoniker concert of the season, probably 7 or 8 of them, on my Sony NSC-GS8 with no success. Whereas Archived concerts stream with no problems, the Live concerts invariably are a mess, with picture artifacts, smearing where movement occurs, trashed screens, and frequent freezes. I just went through an extensive discussion on the Sony Community Forum trying to get to the source of that problem. I did get some good support, and they had me perform a variety of tests, and configuration changes, with the results pointing to a probably deficiency in the Sony unit, either my individual unit, the unit design or something deficient in the firmware.

Having reached that point, my detailed thread was unceremoniously removed from the forum. I guess the Sony corporate interest took over, and they didn't want anything that appeared to be an unsolvable Sony problem on the forum.

Fortunately, I just discovered that my cheap little LG BluRay player, Model BP220, has the Berlin App on their list of available apps, so I installed it, and used it this morning to play a live concert. To my shock, delight and amazement, the little LG unit performed flawlessly. I watched the concert for over an hour, and it delivered clean HD, with absolutely no issues. After an hour, I switched back to the Sony, to check it. The Sony, as always, was a mess, so I'm now confident that the problem is unique to the Sony GS8 - perhaps just mine, perhaps all of them.

I guess my next move is to ask Sony for a replacement unit, in the hope that the problem is just in mine, although I would bet that all of them are the same.

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post #13 of 26 Old 10-30-2014, 03:12 PM
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Just checking in/bumping this thread to perhaps get some new anecdotes regarding support of the Digital Concert Hall with the 2013 Sony BD players. Am interested in feedback on the BDP-S1100, 3100 and 5100.
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post #14 of 26 Old 10-30-2014, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
Just checking in/bumping this thread to perhaps get some new anecdotes regarding support of the Digital Concert Hall with the 2013 Sony BD players. Am interested in feedback on the BDP-S1100, 3100 and 5100.
I've already documented my experience with the Sony NSC-GS8 Google TV player, with respect to Berlin Phil concerts up to last year. just to bring it up to date, the Sony continues to be fine for any archived concert playback, but it is still always incapable of providing a clean stream of LIVE concerts. The LG BP220 player continues to perform very nicely for both LIVE and archived concerts.

I was never able to resolve whether the problem I experienced with the Sony player is unique to my player, or if all of them perform so miserably on live concerts, and would love to hear from any others who can share their experiences with that box, as well as the BDP-S1100, 3100 and 5100 .

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post #15 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 06:50 AM
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Digital Concert Hall Picture Freezing

I am having trouble with my concerts video freezing. I have my feed thru an OPPO 103. I have to turn off the OPPO and back on to get back to the Digital concert hall app. This appears to be time sensitive as some times during the day it works without this problem. The help desk in Berlin does not provide any input other than changing feeds etc. my internet speed to the oppo is 40meg. This is a recent problem. it has worked without a hitch a month ago. Anyone have any ideas? Maybe Berlin manipulating bandwidth? I am in Florida.

Lamont Cranston
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post #16 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by firthent View Post
I am having trouble with my concerts video freezing. I have my feed thru an OPPO 103. I have to turn off the OPPO and back on to get back to the Digital concert hall app. This appears to be time sensitive as some times during the day it works without this problem. The help desk in Berlin does not provide any input other than changing feeds etc. my internet speed to the oppo is 40meg. This is a recent problem. it has worked without a hitch a month ago. Anyone have any ideas? Maybe Berlin manipulating bandwidth? I am in Florida.
How frequently are the freezes occurring, and what times of day are vulnerable? I assume you are talking about problems streaming archival concerts, rather than live. If it is only on live concerts that is a unique kind of problem.

Freezes have been very rare playing archival concerts, and momentary, recovering spontaneously, We've not had to power cycle our LG BP220 or our Sony NSZ-GS8 for recovery.

We are in the same time zone in NC, and if your problem occurs frequently, I would be happy to try a more or less simultaneous stream of the same concert. If you post here prior to starting to play one, and tell me when you plan to start playing, and which concert, I could try to replicate it on my setup, and we can compare behavior, logging times that any glitches occur.


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

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post #17 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 08:54 AM
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Yes, this for archival concerts. This appears to be only at night 8:00pm on. I was on now 9:30 am and streaming was fine. Last night it was unwatchable. In early December I had none of these problems. Berlin wanted me to send them a picture of their speed test which varies from 1900k to 5000k on my internet feed to my OPPO. Using my laptop connected to the same feed and doing a Verizon speed test I get a download speed of 39meg. But my setup hasn't changed from December when everything was fine. I am on the east coast feed from Berlin which is the best for me according to their speed test. I have a view of my router LED receive activity and during the freezing times I seem to have much more download activity during the freeze times. When the streaming is not freezing time I seem to see much calmer data download. I think your idea of a simultaneous stream is a good one. My freeze problem occurs with whatever I try to stream and is not associated with any particular concert. Sometimes the freeze is right away sometimes 20 minutes into the concert.
Some as you say recover spontaneously. I was able to also recover by pausing backing up past the interruption point and continue to the end. The bad behavior is all over the place.
I'm not sure what we could accomplish if you are not having these same problems too. It is now happening to me every night as I said. Every morning it has gone away. I would be agreeable to compare behavior real time by phone if you think we could accomplish anything. I really appreciate your reply, Berlin has stopped responding to me and I gave them a years subscription based on their early excellent product. The Berlin technical guy is either English second language or clueless or both.

Lamont Cranston
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post #18 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 10:14 AM
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very interesting. The problems occurring 8 PM and on opens the possibility that there is contention on your ISP with so many people streaming videos on Netflix during the prime evening hours, but that it just one suspect, of course. The 1.9 to 5 Mb/sec download speed seems a bit borderline, compared to the 40 Mb/sec you reported in your earlier post. Was that lower rate established using a special test that Berlin Phil suggested, or provided?

If you have a PC available, it might be helpful to test stream to that device during the evening hours to see if the freezing, or other bad behavior issues show up on it as it does on your OPPO. In my own testing of Digital Concert Hall streaming, the PC generally was quite forgiving of line issues, probably due to extra large buffering capability, compared to other devices.

I've seen a big variation in behavior between devices and apps on DCH streams. For example, my Nexus 7 tablet, and my HTC One phone were both consistently performing very poorly on DCH streams, with the Nexus 7 starting to degrade after 8-10 minutes of streaming, and the HTC One after about 15 minutes. That happened every time I ran streams on either one. Since I upgraded the Android OS on both devices from Kit-Kat (4.4.4) to Lollipop (5.0.1 & 5.0.2) they both now stream DCH perfectly. I assume that Google made some adjustments to something in the OS that cleared up that problem on those devices.

Most of our streaming on DCH has been during the day, so it's certainly possible that we would also see some degrading during those evening hours. I think the value of both of us streaming during the same time/data would be that it might help to discern whether Berlin Phil servers are a possible source of the problem, or if the behavior is localized to your ISP or local environment. I would be happy to do that at your convenience. If you have a texting plan for your phone that wouldn't incur any extra costs, I think texting back and forth during the concert streaming when events occur would be the most convenient for both of us, without the distraction of an open phone line. Alternatively, a chat exchange could also work. I use Google Hangouts for texting or chat. If you want to run the test you can send me a PM with either your mobile number or chat ID, or if neither of those are workable, your phone number.

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post #19 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 02:56 PM
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This is the link Berlin gave me to test their speed. Mine varies all over the place. http://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/help/bandwidth
From over 5000k to under 2000k. Right now it is 2000k. I also use my OPPO for VUDU with the same feed as Berlin. Their supplied speed test for this app on OPPO goes to 9000k to determine HD or SD. My test is always at the Max of 9000k. When I use my laptop connected to this OPPO feed and an Internet speed test provided by VUDU, I get 39meg download. This connection is a LAN feed and not wireless. Right now Berlin's US East is 2000k and US West is 182k. It would be interesting to see what you measure. The first measurement I sent Berlin for their test was 5000 something K. I now only see around 2000k consistently. I have two other computers connected to my Lan on other separate Lan feeds, one is reading 6896k the other 80,000k for the Berlin test which is impossible as my Verizon speed is 50meg. I called OPPO they told me to wait a couple of weeks to see if it continues. They have not received any other similar complaints. I told them about the non responsiveness of Berlin and they mentioned they might be able to intercede directly. If you look above our correspondence on this AVS forum some people had similar freezing problems from Berlin back in 2013 using a Sony BD Player so maybe OPPO has a problem. What devise are you using for the Berlin service and have you had any problems?
I don't know how to stream Berlin to my computer directly. Maybe you can enlighten me. But as you say this is an entirely different environment. I have a Verizon package plan that provides me with landline telephone calling at no cost for time duration or long distance. I could call you. I could give you my email address so you could send your Tel# to me and not have it appear on this forum. I talk much better than I type. Thanks again for your interest and expertise. By the way I watched a concert this afternoon and got 17 minutes into it when it froze. I paused backed up behind the freeze point started again and the concert completed. At least I didn't have to restart the OPPO.

Lamont Cranston
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post #20 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 06:25 PM
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I just ran the Berlin Bandwidth test 3 times from my PC Laptop, which is on WiFi.

On US East I got:
Latency: 113, 42 and 35 ms
100kB: 2266, 2826 & 2523 kbits/sec
1MB: 14576, 16482 & 13065 kbits/sec

On US West I got:
Latency: 94, 93 and 98 ms
100kB: 980, 1225 an 1128 kbits/sec
1 MB: 8542, 5509 and 9012 kbits/sec

Those seem reasonably consistent, although I'm still trying to understand what they exactly mean with the 100kB, and 1MB designations. Perhaps it means that they are sending out 100kB and 1 MB/sec streams, and the lower readings on the 100kB bandwidth would be as expected, and the 1MB variety would indicate a maximum bandwidth.

Ill try it again on my GoogleTV and LG BluRay in a bit, but my wife is in the middle of a movie right now.

I had the same results that you did on the VUDU test. It always passed the Max rate for their streams.

As far as which equipment we use for the concerts, we use the Sony GoogleTV box for all archival streams, mainly because the UI on it is much faster and more elegant to use than the one on the LG BluRay player. Both of them stream archival concerts pretty flawlessly, and we have watched a ton of concerts.

For Live Concerts, the Sony unit is useless. The picture actually smears wherever there is motion and progressively gets worse and worse, and freezes frequently. I spent many, many frustrating hours with Sony over several months on that issue, and I jumped through all kinds of hoops accommodating their suggestions, most of which were aimed at proving my ISP or my local setup had the problem. When we finally narrowed the problem down to the Sony box, they just abandoned me, and removed my thread on the subject. I guess they don't like anything on their site that indicates Sony had a problem. I was very frustrated, but at that point, I discovered I could use my cheap little LG BluRay player, and it performs beautifully on the Live Concerts.

If you do want to try out the PC, it's really easy. If you have Windows 8, there is actually a Berlin Phil app that you can use directly, and you won't have to repeat the signon every time you use it. You can also get to the DCH via your browser at:

https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/live

I haven't run it that way for a while, since I haven't needed to, but I believe they recommended using the Microsoft Internet Explorer browser for their streams.

I'll PM you with my phone number, so that you can call when we decide to run a test.

As an aside, I see that your signature shows Lamont Cranston. Were you named after the Shadow, or the band, or is that a coincidence, or a nickname?

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post #21 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 07:02 PM
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I just ran the bandwidth test on the Sony unit. It didn't behave too well ( it seemed to want to report a variety of countries, rather than US East and West), but I did get this:

US East
Latency: 421 and 404 ms
100KB: 1410 and 950 kbits/sec
1 MB: 2630 and 2870 kbits/sec

US West
Latency: 414 ms
100kB: 1044 kbits/sec
1MB: 2944 kbits/sec

The Sony GoogleTV uses the Chrome browser, and I know Berlin doesn't like that, so maybe it's somehow optimized for Microsoft. The numbers are really bad compared to what I got on the PC, but both devices do play archival streams perfectly in HD, so I'm not concerned. Both the Sony and LG units are hardwired on Ethernet.

I couldn't really run the test on my LG BluRay unit, since it doesn't have any browser available.

I've been running a stream on the LG unit for the last 15 minutes, or so, and of course, it's working perfectly for me. I'll keep it running for a while, but I don't expect any issues.

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post #22 of 26 Old 01-20-2015, 09:33 PM
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Lamont, I don't know if you have been continuing to run DCH concerts late tonight, but for comparison, I streamed on our LG BluRay unit from about 8:45 PM to 11:05 PM. It worked flawlessly throughout that period.

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post #23 of 26 Old Yesterday, 05:25 AM
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Well then it must be local. Mine was unwatchable. Continuous freezing. I think my only option is to ask for a refund.

Lamont Cranston
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post #24 of 26 Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firthent View Post
Well then it must be local. Mine was unwatchable. Continuous freezing. I think my only option is to ask for a refund.
I am very sorry that you are experiencing so much trouble. I hope you will be able to try another player in your home to determine how the your evening internet problems would affect other devices than the OPPO. If you have a Android or IOS tablet or phone, you can stream to them as a comparison, and of course the PC path is available. That might give you some hope that a different BluRay box might work for you. I can only speak for the DCH performance of the ones that I own, in my environment,

ISP: TWC 20Mb/sec download, 2Mb/sec upload

Sony NSZ-GS8 GoogleTV - Good UI, Good, reliable video/audio streaming of archived material, consistently useless for Live Concerts

LG BP220 BluRay Player - Slow and clunky UI, Good,reliable video/audio streaming of archived material and Live Concerts

I hope you are able to resolve your issues, and that you will share your results in this thread.

VicW
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post #25 of 26 Old Today, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicw View Post
I am very sorry that you are experiencing so much trouble. I hope you will be able to try another player in your home to determine how the your evening internet problems would affect other devices than the OPPO. If you have a Android or IOS tablet or phone, you can stream to them as a comparison, and of course the PC path is available. That might give you some hope that a different BluRay box might work for you. I can only speak for the DCH performance of the ones that I own, in my environment,

ISP: TWC 20Mb/sec download, 2Mb/sec upload

Sony NSZ-GS8 GoogleTV - Good UI, Good, reliable video/audio streaming of archived material, consistently useless for Live Concerts

LG BP220 BluRay Player - Slow and clunky UI, Good,reliable video/audio streaming of archived material and Live Concerts

I hope you are able to resolve your issues, and that you will share your results in this thread.
VICW, I got my full subscription money back this morning with apologies from Enrique and an invitation to come back any time. I have forwarded you a link to Amazon's classical music forum which has a bunch of threads indicating both yours and my problems going on and on with them. Interesting the only BD player that works is an 80$ LG. Maybe this is a BD player problem. What is amazing is how long this has been going on without Berlin or the BluRay player people giving a damn. If you go on Berlin's Internet site referring to player problems they acknowledge all the problems you and I are having, are occurrences to expect. Berlin actually tells you that their Live broadcasts are worse than their Archive. I get the feeling that freezes and interruptions are to be expected, like static on AM radio. This, especially with classical music at this level, is not accepted. Your better success than me however, indicates maybe our players are the problem. I go on, as these poor people on these threads go on, with no solution in sight.

http://www.amazon.com/forum/classica...x2NXYVQCLVJDU4

Lamont Cranston
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post #26 of 26 Unread Today, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firthent View Post
VICW, I got my full subscription money back this morning with apologies from Enrique and an invitation to come back any time. I have forwarded you a link to Amazon's classical music forum which has a bunch of threads indicating both yours and my problems going on and on with them. Interesting the only BD player that works is an 80$ LG. Maybe this is a BD player problem. What is amazing is how long this has been going on without Berlin or the BluRay player people giving a damn. If you go on Berlin's Internet site referring to player problems they acknowledge all the problems you and I are having, are occurrences to expect. Berlin actually tells you that their Live broadcasts are worse than their Archive. I get the feeling that freezes and interruptions are to be expected, like static on AM radio. This, especially with classical music at this level, is not accepted. Your better success than me however, indicates maybe our players are the problem. I go on, as these poor people on these threads go on, with no solution in sight.

http://www.amazon.com/forum/classica...x2NXYVQCLVJDU4
Lamont, It's unfortunate that you had to give up on the DCH, but I'm glad that Berlin was willing to refund your subscription with no fuss. I know that my wife and I would be very upset to have to leave it now. I just pray my little LG player stays alive and working, or I will be in serious trouble trying to find a suitable replacement.

I do think that Berlin should be proactive, and conduct some real-world testing on live and archived concerts on every make and model of the devices that they support, or do more to make sure that the manufacturers conduct such testing and report their results. I would really like to know if my Sony NGZ-GS8 is the only one to perform consistently so miserably on live concerts, or if they all would do the same. I suspect that the culprit on that device is some bad coding in the Berlin app, and that they all will do the same. Now that GoogleTV is a dead product, perhaps its successor will be more successful, assuming it includes an app for Berlin DCH.

The comments by the Berlin rep that you sent were the first time I've seen anyone acknowledge that the processes used on live and archived concerts is completely unique. I have no doubt that's true, and its what I've always believed, but it doesn't make it any more acceptable that some devices just can't cope with live streaming, when they boast of a Berlin Philharmoniker app installed and supported.

Good luck with your system. I hope you find a viable alternative that will work for you.

VicW
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