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post #451 of 476 Old 04-20-2017, 08:42 PM
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post #452 of 476 Old 04-20-2017, 08:49 PM
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Maybe people know about this already since it seems like this has been in the news for a couple of months after googling around about the beta that guy mentioned in the second link above. Maybe it'll include 5.1 audio finally since it'd be nice if they got that before the century is up
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post #453 of 476 Old 04-21-2017, 10:51 AM
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Maybe people know about this already since it seems like this has been in the news for a couple of months after googling around about the beta that guy mentioned in the second link above. Maybe it'll include 5.1 audio finally since it'd be nice if they got that before the century is up
I have a feeling that Hulu may be using VP9 which I can't verify because on the Shield TV they still use h264. The issue would be the license for EAC3 (DD+) whereas if they wait until fall AV1 should have a workable 5.1 in place and no license required for that.

Also given that Hulu is the child of ABC, FOX and NBC that you may see things you may not have expected on some of the streams as far as quality goes. They can pretty much do what they want and use Hulu to do some testing.
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post #454 of 476 Old 04-21-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
I have a feeling that Hulu may be using VP9 which I can't verify because on the Shield TV they still use h264. The issue would be the license for EAC3 (DD+) whereas if they wait until fall AV1 should have a workable 5.1 in place and no license required for that.

Won't that open audio encoding have to be converted into something that contemporary AVRs can deal with at some point? How will that happen?

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post #455 of 476 Old 04-21-2017, 05:07 PM
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Won't that open audio encoding have to be converted into something that contemporary AVRs can deal with at some point? How will that happen?
Ask an AV1 member. It has probably been worked out.
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post #456 of 476 Old 04-22-2017, 03:57 PM
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Ask an AV1 member. It has probably been worked out.
Here this might help but put on your geek cap and there are a couple samples of opus surround files you can download and see what your AV receiver does with them.
https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/opus/demo3.shtml
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post #457 of 476 Old 04-22-2017, 07:42 PM
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Here this might help but put on your geek cap and there are a couple samples of opus surround files you can download and see what your AV receiver does with them.
https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/opus/demo3.shtml

The only thing on my PC which can play one of those files is VLC and it outputs it over HDMI as stereo PCM (fully recognizing that it's 6 channel audio), but then it does the same thing with DTS (it outputs DD and DD+ intact).

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post #458 of 476 Old 04-23-2017, 12:25 PM
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The only thing on my PC which can play one of those files is VLC and it outputs it over HDMI as stereo PCM (fully recognizing that it's 6 channel audio), but then it does the same thing with DTS (it outputs DD and DD+ intact).
And I had to buy a new receiver to replace my Pioneer which wouldn't decode DD+ (nor switch HDMI). They'll love to sell you a new receiver. Isn't that the way technology always works.
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post #459 of 476 Old 05-04-2017, 11:04 AM
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Hey Michael, do the Hulu 4K streams have 5.1 audio? Someone said they did but maybe they don't know the difference between Dolby Pro Logic and DD+.

Interesting article here about cost savings of VP9 in more businessman terms.
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...gs-117996.aspx
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post #460 of 476 Old 05-04-2017, 01:09 PM
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It's impossible to tell the sound format of a stream on an Xbox; they internally decode everything, mix in any sounds from the UI, then output it as either multichannel LPCM or transcoded into lossy basic DD or basic DTS. Very recently they've added a setting to allow for direct bitstreaming of audio from BDs to accommodate object-based formats (Atmos, DTS:X) which they cannot internally decode without discarding the object position info. They're supposed to be adding a setting to enable direct bitstreaming for games and apps, but it's unclear how that's going to work.

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post #461 of 476 Old 05-05-2017, 12:05 AM
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Interesting. I just started Hulu on my Xbone S; I was about to watch the first episode of The Handmaid's Tale and I wondered if it were in 4K. They sprung "The New Hulu Experience" on me. Kind of pretty, kind of slow, with no mention of 4K video. Previously, only the movie Spectre and 6 Hulu Originals were in 4K (the only one that I remember was The Path). I'm going to take a look at the rate at which it streams Spectre.

EDIT: I checked Spectre; 10 minutes at the start ran 451.84 MiB; assuming a 60 second buffer that's 5.7 Mbps. I got twice that the last time I checked so I have to believe that "The New Hulu Experience" removes my access to the 4K streams. C'est la vie; no reason for me ever to use my Xbone S for Hulu now. I might try the free week of Hulu w/Live TV to mess around with, currently only supported on Xbone S and Chromecast, of those things which I own. Not a particularly great starting line up of channels, with only the local Fox and NBC affiliates participating; $44/month with no-commercials Hulu and 50 hours of cloud DVR; an additional $15/month gets you 200 hours of DVR with the ability to skip ads in recordings (which implies that the DVR function doesn't otherwise allow you to FF over ads; it could alternately mean that you get a one button skip entire ad break function, like TiVo's SkipMode).

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post #462 of 476 Old 05-05-2017, 11:37 AM
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The Hulu forum on Reddit is full of complaints about the new interface. It's not on Roku as you probably know nor on my Shield TV. It is on my phone though. I think they wanted to dump Flash which I'm fine with because they use it on the web site and I usually look at it on Linux which has not had a Flash update in years since Adobe stopped supporting Linux. Originally Hulu played shows on Linux but not now.

OTOH Netflix now plays shows on Linux. I doubt in the long run if you will have lost 4K on the Xbox and we should see more devices supported. It's just streams after all and doing a little querying to see if the TV supports 4K. I didn't think 5.1 came with the 4K availability though and still think they are waiting for the royalty free option.
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post #463 of 476 Old 05-05-2017, 03:20 PM
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I doubt in the long run if you will have lost 4K on the Xbox and we should see more devices supported. It's just streams after all and doing a little querying to see if the TV supports 4K.

Well "The New Hulu Experience" is either not identifying my Xbone S as being 4K capable or does not yet have code in it for dealing with 4K. I don't doubt that support of Hulu w/Live TV is a much larger priority. Whatever; there wasn't much 4K Hulu yet and I wasn't particularly impressed by what there was.

According to Hulu's site, the new UI is only available on iOS and Android phones and tablets, 4th gen Apple TV, Xbox One and Chromecast.

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post #464 of 476 Old 05-05-2017, 04:04 PM
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Well "The New Hulu Experience" is either not identifying my Xbone S as being 4K capable or does not yet have code in it for dealing with 4K. I don't doubt that support of Hulu w/Live TV is a much larger priority. Whatever; there wasn't much 4K Hulu yet and I wasn't particularly impressed by what there was.
This article is from Wednesday.
https://help.hulu.com/s/article/ka04...language=en_US

I'd ask Hulu Help what happened to 4K on the Xbox. See if they do any tap dancing.

I actually watch a lot of Hulu originals which are quite good and supposedly available in 4K (supposedly if you have the right device). Plus there are probably more than Bond movies they could be streaming.
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post #465 of 476 Old 05-05-2017, 04:54 PM
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I actually watch a lot of Hulu originals which are quite good and supposedly available in 4K (supposedly if you have the right device). Plus there are probably more than Bond movies they could be streaming.

When it was showing 4K on the Xbox it was just one Bond movie and five or six of the originals (including The Path but not including Harlots).

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post #466 of 476 Old 05-05-2017, 05:13 PM
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I just chatted with Hulu. The guy first told me that Hulu did not have 4K content; I told him that he was wrong and that it was available in the previous version of the UI and that I'd watched it. He apparently asked around and was told that there is 4K content but that it isn't currently available on the new platform. He did not know whether it would be returning.

I think that the main thrust of this new UI rollout is support for Hulu with Live TV; 4K has fallen by the wayside for the moment.

The "chat":
Spoiler!

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post #467 of 476 Old 05-06-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I just chatted with Hulu. The guy first told me that Hulu did not have 4K content; I told him that he was wrong and that it was available in the previous version of the UI and that I'd watched it. He apparently asked around and was told that there is 4K content but that it isn't currently available on the new platform. He did not know whether it would be returning.

I think that the main thrust of this new UI rollout is support for Hulu with Live TV; 4K has fallen by the wayside for the moment.

The "chat":
Looks like you got a tap dance all right and probably not a correct answer either. I got a similar tap dance via chat a month back when I reported an episode of a show that was not 1080p though other episodes were. So when asked if there was anything else they could help me with I asked when more devices would get 4K. He had to ask around and came back after awhile with the stock answer which is what is seen on the new Help.

Thing is that unless they are concerned about heavy CDN hits if they widen 4K support there really is little reason to not expand unless the plan is to charge extra for it. Yeah, they do have a bit much on their plate with rolling out both a new interface for some devices and their Live option at the same time. Also I would suspect that "The Handmaid's Tales" is 4K but there was no intern handy to put the logo up. Just recalling how bad for years the "recently added" section was in movies where only new films were added and others way beyond "recently added" were not removed making for a long scroll.

The other problem might be that reports on 4K TV sales may not be available until next month. That what I found looking up info on top streaming devices. Given prices it will should reflect that 4K TV sales were up quite a bit over the last year.

Also gotta recall that right after I bought the TCL 4K Roku TV (like the one offered in the drawing here) that a few days later when I went to the Netflix app it popped up a message saying that I had a 4K TV and could get 4K on Netflix. At the time I only had 12 Mbps broadband so didn't sign up but give what sub 12 Mbps 4K ladders look like it would have worked just a bit of a "smudge" effect that some eyes might detect.

The other problem in selling 4K is different filming styles used for network shows. For instance, how much difference is there between watching "The Blacklist" in 1080p and 4K the way it is shot? And I also notice that a lot of 4K closeups of actors dialog are shot "soft". After the brouhaha over HD and skin blemishes maybe their is a clause in the SAG contracts these days requiring that.
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post #468 of 476 Old 05-06-2017, 02:03 PM
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I really think that the thrust was to get the "with Live TV" service up and running. Adding proper handling of 4K content to the new client was no doubt a lower priority line item in the schedule (at the very least it would have to determine that the app was running on a 4K-capable platform to enable certain UI elements). When it got down to the wire everything was ready except for that, so they launched the new client without it. I'm sure that it'll come. After all, 4K is currently not revenue enhancing.
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post #469 of 476 Old 05-07-2017, 01:10 PM
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I really think that the thrust was to get the "with Live TV" service up and running. Adding proper handling of 4K content to the new client was no doubt a lower priority line item in the schedule (at the very least it would have to determine that the app was running on a 4K-capable platform to enable certain UI elements). When it got down to the wire everything was ready except for that, so they launched the new client without it. I'm sure that it'll come. After all, 4K is currently not revenue enhancing.
Querying the device is not that complicated especially on Roku as they have an example of how to do it. Did you have to turn on an option to get 4K on the Xbox? Seems one might want that too so that people don't wind up going over their data cap. No problem here though with a 1 TB cap.

Unfortunately I think some of this work goes to contractors who know little or nothing about video and just dive in and make a mess of things. I beta tested an Android app for a talk show a couple years back and it was apparent the contractor barely knew what he was doing.

I learned from a friend at Sony why the PS4 Pro got 4K support. Not hard to figure out BTW.
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post #470 of 476 Old 05-08-2017, 08:42 AM
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The other problem might be that reports on 4K TV sales may not be available until next month. That what I found looking up info on top streaming devices. Given prices it will should reflect that 4K TV sales were up quite a bit over the last year.
Hasn't the 4K HDTV pretty much become the norm? A cursory look at the Costco site shows their current inventory as 29 4K sets, 5 1080p sets and 2 720p sets. Pretty hard to buy anything but these days.

I still haven't gotten a 4K set and don't plan to until much more content is available.
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post #471 of 476 Old 05-08-2017, 10:47 AM
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Hasn't the 4K HDTV pretty much become the norm? A cursory look at the Costco site shows their current inventory as 29 4K sets, 5 1080p sets and 2 720p sets. Pretty hard to buy anything but these days.

I still haven't gotten a 4K set and don't plan to until much more content is available.
Look at the prices too. Around here there are 55" 4K TVs going for less than $400. One thing the members here with 4K TVs will tell you is that 1080p looks better on a 4K set not just because of the upscaling but the color depth the new codecs have even without HDR.

The industry works on panel density. My nephew would works in that segment confirmed this. It may just be that manufacturers aren't producing panels for 1080p anymore.
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post #472 of 476 Old 05-10-2017, 11:14 PM
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Querying the device is not that complicated especially on Roku as they have an example of how to do it. Did you have to turn on an option to get 4K on the Xbox? Seems one might want that too so that people don't wind up going over their data cap.

Sorry--I just noticed that question. No; there is no setting to enable 4K video in the Hulu app, just as there isn't one in Netflix or Amazon. The only way to inhibit it is to set a non-4K display mode on the device.

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post #473 of 476 Old 05-10-2017, 11:35 PM
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Looks like you got a tap dance all right and probably not a correct answer either. I got a similar tap dance via chat a month back when I reported an episode of a show that was not 1080p though other episodes were. So when asked if there was anything else they could help me with I asked when more devices would get 4K. He had to ask around and came back after awhile with the stock answer which is what is seen on the new Help.

Thing is that unless they are concerned about heavy CDN hits if they widen 4K support there really is little reason to not expand unless the plan is to charge extra for it. Yeah, they do have a bit much on their plate with rolling out both a new interface for some devices and their Live option at the same time. Also I would suspect that "The Handmaid's Tales" is 4K but there was no intern handy to put the logo up. Just recalling how bad for years the "recently added" section was in movies where only new films were added and others way beyond "recently added" were not removed making for a long scroll.

The other problem might be that reports on 4K TV sales may not be available until next month. That what I found looking up info on top streaming devices. Given prices it will should reflect that 4K TV sales were up quite a bit over the last year.

Also gotta recall that right after I bought the TCL 4K Roku TV (like the one offered in the drawing here) that a few days later when I went to the Netflix app it popped up a message saying that I had a 4K TV and could get 4K on Netflix. At the time I only had 12 Mbps broadband so didn't sign up but give what sub 12 Mbps 4K ladders look like it would have worked just a bit of a "smudge" effect that some eyes might detect.

The other problem in selling 4K is different filming styles used for network shows. For instance, how much difference is there between watching "The Blacklist" in 1080p and 4K the way it is shot? And I also notice that a lot of 4K closeups of actors dialog are shot "soft". After the brouhaha over HD and skin blemishes maybe their is a clause in the SAG contracts these days requiring that.
At some point shooting video soft became equated with making it look film like, it's common with TV shows, NCIS is a prime example and when you see material that doesn't do that it's really sticks out. I dare say commercials look better than the programs they are running with.
The Blacklist darker scenes don't render very well, I seen it streaming and OTA and there is not a huge difference. 4K will only be as good as the cinematography used and the lighting used. 4K will be underwhelming at times, it's no magic bullet.

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post #474 of 476 Old 05-11-2017, 10:55 AM
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Sorry--I just noticed that question. No; there is no setting to enable 4K video in the Hulu app, just as there isn't one in Netflix or Amazon. The only way to inhibit it is to set a non-4K display mode on the device.
There used to be a setting for bitrate on the web page under account. I looked today and it isn't there anymore.
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post #475 of 476 Old 05-11-2017, 11:01 AM
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At some point shooting video soft became equated with making it look film like, it's common with TV shows, NCIS is a prime example and when you see material that doesn't do that it's really sticks out. I dare say commercials look better than the programs they are running with.
The Blacklist darker scenes don't render very well, I seen it streaming and OTA and there is not a huge difference. 4K will only be as good as the cinematography used and the lighting used. 4K will be underwhelming at times, it's no magic bullet.
Having shot some 4K albeit with a cheap 4K camera the best results are on bright sunny days with subjects that bring out detail. I do make it a point to watch enough 4K to keep my eye trained. Unfortunately depending on what you show folks many may think 4K TV isn't worth the price. Hence I run the Shield TV and force 2160p with some of the YouTube 4K travelogues.

I am pointing out to people that the new codecs have more benefit than just 4K. Some shows on Netflix look startlingly good even at 4 Mbps in 1080p with very crisp images. Same with some of Hulu's shows even if they are 1080p.
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I was checking Hulu on the Shield TV yesterday where I can get a log since I can't get a log on the Roku TV. Their player was doing something interesting I haven't seen it do before: probe for 4K. However the show I ran was playing using h264 not VP9 or HEVC but then I have my doubts Hulu wants to use the latter because of licensing complications.
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