Netflix adds 3D and Super HD - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:16 AM
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PS3 many times takes up to 30-45 seconds to ramp up to the highest quality even starting at that unbearable 240p crap or dropping down to it but once it ramps up it stays at the highest quality which is more I can say about the Roku 3, Windows 8 app and Silverlight player.

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Old 06-26-2013, 11:26 AM
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I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere, but when using a launch model PS3 and a Super HD stream with DD+ isn't the PS3 suppose to convert the DD+ to regular DD? When I check the 2 available options for audio on those titles I get no sound at all when the DD+ audio is selected and only DD 2.0 when the other option is selected. My AVR does not decode DD+ just the regular DD.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by reddice View Post

PS3 many times takes up to 30-45 seconds to ramp up to the highest quality even starting at that unbearable 240p crap or dropping down to it but once it ramps up it stays at the highest quality which is more I can say about the Roku 3, Windows 8 app and Silverlight player.

Maybe I'm just lucky. Since a few months back when I start a Netflix stream on PS3 it usually starts at 4300- or 5800 Kbps; occasionally it will immediately drop back as far as 2350 Kbps and ramp back up from there, but I haven't seen it drop into SD bit rates at all. I am with an Open Connect ISP, but the change happened months after that, and the ramp up is still often slow on other platforms (I'm pretty sure that the TiVo always starts at the lowest).

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by reddice View Post

PS3 many times takes up to 30-45 seconds to ramp up to the highest quality even starting at that unbearable 240p crap or dropping down to it but once it ramps up it stays at the highest quality which is more I can say about the Roku 3, Windows 8 app and Silverlight player.

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Maybe I'm just lucky. Since a few months back when I start a Netflix stream on PS3 it usually starts at 4300- or 5800 Kbps; occasionally it will immediately drop back as far as 2350 Kbps and ramp back up from there, but I haven't seen it drop into SD bit rates at all. I am with an Open Connect ISP, but the change happened months after that, and the ramp up is still often slow on other platforms (I'm pretty sure that the TiVo always starts at the lowest).


Although my Roku 2 doesn't show the bit rates, and it may take up to 30 seconds to ramp up to HD, it rarely drops off to SD quality. Once it's in HD it stays in HD, since I've had Optimum/Open Connect.



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Old 06-26-2013, 12:09 PM
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Of corse it is fine on Open Connect. At least TWC is not as bad as Verizon FiOS which is purposely lowering streams.

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Old 06-26-2013, 01:39 PM
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Of corse it is fine on Open Connect. At least TWC is not as bad as Verizon FiOS which is purposely lowering streams.

Again, the improvement came a couple of months after I got Open Connect and my many other platforms saw no notable improvement in ramp up speed. I just tried Roku 3 and it initially started at 235 Kbps and took at least 30 seconds to climb up; I killed the player and started it again and it started at 2350 and took 16 seconds to get to 5800. The Win8 app just started at 560 and took 26 seconds. The PS3 started at 5800 and stayed there; I stopped the player and tried again and it started at 235 and took just as long to climb up as the other players; I stopped and restarted the player a few more times and got a 5800 Kbps stream start every time. So it seems as if I can get a "crappy phone connection" even on the PS3, just not very often (so rarely that I hadn't seen it happen in months). My WD TV Live started at 235 and ramped up in 22 seconds. My TiVo Premiere started at 235 and ramped up in 24 seconds. The Panasonic DMP-BDT220 started at 235 and took 24 seconds. A few of these things will generally start subsequent streams in a session at a higher rate but not all.

Given that Open Connect doesn't seem to affect the ramp up of the other devices I strongly doubt that it has anything to do with the PS3's greatly improved stream start performance. Today I upgraded my service to Cox's overpriced top tier (50/5 for $100/month; I got $20/month off for a year, making it only $13/month more than the normal price of the next lower tier; hopefully prices will have dropped and maybe an even higher speed residential tier will have been added by the end of a year). That doesn't seem to help ramp-up speed particularly much either.

The problem is with the ramp up algorithms in the various players. By bringing up the Stream Manager (CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-S) in the Win8 app I can see that 4 seconds after stream start it's buffering the 5800 Kbps encode but for some reason it feels obligated to display all of the crappy stuff that it buffered in those four seconds rather than going back to a bit after what's already been played and writing the buffer over with 5800 Kbps. (You see the same thing with the stream manager in the web site player but it'll only go up to the 3000 Kbps 720p encode).

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Old 06-26-2013, 04:26 PM
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With my WDTV Live, I've noticed it seems to depend on what was used before. On a 'cold' start, it will start with the lowest SD and work up. If I try playing something right after playing an HD title, it will often try starting HD right from the beginning, although sometimes it may drop a level or two before going back up.

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Old 06-26-2013, 04:28 PM
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With my WDTV Live, I've noticed it seems to depend on what was used before. On a 'cold' start, it will start with the lowest SD and work up. If I try playing something right after playing an HD title, it will often try starting HD right from the beginning, although sometimes it may drop a level or two before going back up.

As I said above some of them do that, some of them don't. The WD TV Live has been largely not doing it for me; I watch a lot of TV series letting it auto advance to the next episode and it starts every episode off slow.

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Old 06-26-2013, 05:14 PM
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We recently went from a Roku 2 to an Apple TV (third generation)

The Apple TV always seem to start at the highest speed I can get - 3850 Kbps on my (non Open Connect) 25 Mbps Comcast connection. This is very different to the old Roku 2 which as others have said seems to take 30+ seconds to ramp up to the highest speed.

I can see this on the Apple TV on both the Example Short (which seems to be working again for non-Open Connect connections) which starts at 3850 Kbps and it is also very noticeable on standard programming which always seem to start at the highest quality.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:38 PM
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I notice certain programs ramp up quicker while others take longer. The Incredible Hulk TV Series usually ramps up right away while Iron Man Animated series starts up at really bad PQ and takes about 50 seconds to ramp to 1080 HD both programs on my PS3.

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Old 06-27-2013, 09:18 AM
 
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Don't really hear much about SuperHD and 3D anymore.

I guess Netflix's attempt to get a free ride from ISPs by manipulating its customers didn't pan out. rolleyes.gif Trying to enlist the support of its custmers who couldn't care less by misleading them doesn't really work, does it?

Netflix just should pay the ISPs like any other CDNs and give the customers SuperHD and 3D instead of pretending that it's the ISPs who are preventing SuperHD/3D when Netflix damn well knows it's Netflix who's doing the preventing. mad.gif
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:00 AM
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Netflix just should pay the ISPs like any other CDNs and give the customers SuperHD and 3D instead of pretending that it's the ISPs who are preventing SuperHD/3D when Netflix damn well knows it's Netflix who's doing the preventing. mad.gif

If Netflix gives Super HD and 3D to customers of ISPs who don't sign up to access their Open Connect CDN they will increase their costs to host those video encodes on the commercial CDNs (more than doubling the required storage space, probably more than tripling it for 3D titles) and to push more bits across the net (50% more for Super HD and much, much more for 3D). Providing Super HD and 3D to those customers isn't worth what would no doubt be a significant hit to their bottom line. As they add things like Super HD, 3D and eventually 4K encodes the cost of hosting things on other people's equipment is ever increasing and they understandably want to put a stop to it.

Not providing Super HD to the customers whose ISPs won't sign up costs them nothing. Tell me--what percentage of their customer base would you guess is even aware of Super HD? Most of those who see it in the few devices which show the logo when its unavailable probably assume that they're getting it. Of the customers who are aware, how many care enough to get pissed about it? Of those, how many are pissed enough to drop their subscriptions?

They really need to modify their "Manage video quality" options to give those of us whose ISPs do have access to Open Connect the ability to block out Super HD. It costs 2.78 GB/hour to stream 5800 Kbps 1080p + 384 Kbps DD+ sound versus 1.90 GB/hour for 3850 Kbps 1080p + DD+. That extra .88 GB/hour is quite significant for heavy users with restrictive bandwidth caps. Right now the settings are "Good", "Better" and "Best", where "Better" isn't enough to get you the highest quality standard definition video.

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:33 AM
 
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If Netflix gives Super HD and 3D to customers of ISPs who don't sign up to access their Open Connect CDN they will increase their costs to host those video encodes on the commercial CDNs...

This is where you are confused. ISPs don't go to CDNs, i.e., Netflix Open Connect, and sign up. CDNs go to ISPs and pay ISPs to be connected.

The problem is Netflix doesn't want to pay ISPs to be connected. Instead, Netflix is offering Open Connect for "free." What Netflix doesn't mention is for whom it's free.

Of course, Netflix is not going to offer SuperHD/3D through 3rd-party CDNs since, as you say, it will increase cost. Isn't that obvious? It's not a revelation that Netflix is in cost-cutting mode, i.e., Open Connect to reduce content delivery cost.

What's irritating is Netflix's misleading its customers that it's the ISPs that are preventing SuperHD/3D when it's Netflix not wanting to pay ISPs to connect Open Connect that is preventing SuperHD/3D. If Netflix offered to pay for Open Connect like other CDNs, do you think ISPs will say no?
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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I guess Netflix's attempt to get a free ride from ISPs...

Forgot to call you on this BS rolleyes.gif. You have absolutely no idea what the issue is with the ISPs who refuse to sign up to access Open Connect is. Even if Netflix will pay what the other CDNs are paying to bring their freight into the ISPs' systems, they save massively by not having to pay those other CDNs enough to make a profit on top of that plus the cost of storage to host their growing library.

My guess is that the largest ISPs actually don't want their customers to use even more bandwidth in their systems to stream Super HD and 3D from Netflix; there's nothing whatsoever in it for them.

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:44 AM
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This is where you are confused. ISPs don't go to CDNs, i.e., Netflix Open Connect, and sign up. CDNs go to ISPs and pay ISPs to be connected.

Netflix has come to the ISP asking to be yet another CDN coming into their systems.
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The problem is Netflix doesn't want to pay ISPs to be connected. Instead, Netflix is offering Open Connect for "free." What Netflix doesn't mention is for whom it's free.

Again, this statement is out of your behind. You're guessing and I think that it's a really bad one.
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What's irritating is Netflix's misleading its customers that it's the ISPs that are preventing SuperHD/3D when it's Netflix not wanting to pay ISPs to connect Open Connect that is preventing SuperHD/3D.

How is this misleading? Netflix isn't willing to pay more to the other CDNs to give their customers Super HD and 3D but the ISPs have the option to gain access to Open Connect. The ball is in the ISPs' court.
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If Netflix offered to pay for Open Connect like other CDNs, do you think ISPs will say no?

Yeah, I do. For one thing, when Netflix takes their business away from those CDNs it hurts their businesses and some ISPs may see keeping those businesses healthy as being in their best interest. It wouldn't surprise me if Comcast and TWC aren't invested in Akamai, Limelight and Level 3. If Netflix succeeds in taking all of their business away from the other CDNs, which would be what they're aiming to do, those CDNs are going to be hurtin' puppies.

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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Forgot to call you on this BS rolleyes.gif. You have absolutely no idea what the issue is with the ISPs who refuse to sign up to access Open Connect is.

rolleyes.gif So why do you think ISPs refuse to sign up for Open Connect? Would you understand if I told you it comes down cost vs benefit? Obviously, Open Connect doesn't offer benefit or incur cost or both for the ISPs. Otherwise, why wouldn't ISPs "sign up" for Open Connect?
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Even if Netflix will pay what the other CDNs are paying to bring their freight into the ISPs' systems, they save massively by not having to pay those other CDNs enough to make a profit on top of that plus the cost of storage to host their growing library.

And you know this how? rolleyes.gif Aren't you doing what you are accusing me of doing, i.e., making a statement out of your behind? "You're guessing and I think that it's really bad one" Sound familiar?
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My guess is that the largest ISPs actually don't want their customers to use even more bandwidth in their systems to stream Super HD and 3D from Netflix; there's nothing whatsoever in it for them.

I agree but I'm sure ISPs wouldn't mind if they got paid.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:54 AM
 
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For one thing, when Netflix takes their business away from those CDNs it hurts their businesses and some ISPs may see keeping those businesses healthy as being in their best interest.

Netflix is in symbiotic relationship with CDNs. Do you really think CDNs will be hurt more than Netflix if Netflix takes its business away? eek.gif

Do you realize that there's shortage of bandwidth in US and that ISPs have more than enough "contents" to deliver without Netflix? Who do you think needs the other more: ISPs or Netflix? rolleyes.gif
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:56 AM
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rolleyes.gif So why do you think ISPs refuse to sign up for Open Connect? Would you understand if I told you it comes down cost vs benefit? Obviously, Open Connect doesn't offer benefit or incur cost or both for the ISPs. Otherwise, why wouldn't ISPs "sign up" for Open Connect?

To give their subs access to better service from Netflix. It may only be a tiny percentage of their subs who can appreciate it, but Cablevision is using it as a bullet point in their advertisements. I don't think that they either lose or gain profits by selling entry into their networks to Netflix Open Connect. If they don't chose to do it, fine. Netflix will definitely not offer to pay them more than the other CDNs are paying them.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:08 AM
 
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To give their subs access to better service from Netflix. It may only be a tiny percentage of their subs who can appreciate it, but Cablevision is using it as a bullet point in their advertisements. I don't think that they either lose or gain profits by selling entry into their networks to Netflix Open Connect. If they don't chose to do it, fine. Netflix will definitely not offer to pay them more than the other CDNs are paying them.

Yes, I remember having this discussion several months back when I predicted only ISPs that will sign up for Open Connect are smaller ISPs in a competitive market that needs some kind of boost where cost of "free" Open Connect would be less than benefit, usually marketing. Didn't you disagree back then too? Glad you came around.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:30 AM
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Don't forget as well that many of the ISP's that are not signed up have their own video services to sell. Verizon is partnered with Redbox and the others have a vested interest in pay per view content.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:33 AM
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Netflix is in symbiotic relationship with CDNs. Do you really think CDNs will be hurt more than Netflix if Netflix takes its business away?

And yet that's exactly what Netflix is trying to do. Where do you see "symbiosis"? Netflix is paying the CDNs for a service and the CDNs aren't giving them anything other than that service. If Netflix can provide that service for itself it doesn't need them.

It's precisely analogous to a company who's been using a trucking service to deliver their goods who now wants to deliver more than twice as much and decides that it's time to buy and maintain their own delivery truck fleet. Losing that business, the trucking company will purchase less fuel, but their lost customer will have to purchase that same amount of fuel to make their own deliveries so the fuel companies don't lose anything. Of course, if losing that business puts the trucking company completely out of business the fuel companies lose sales of fuel for the trucking company's other deliveries, but the trucking company's other customers are going to have to contract someone else to make those deliveries who will have to purchase fuel to do it; the fuel company will not suffer.
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Do you realize that there's shortage of bandwidth in US and that ISPs have more than enough "contents" to deliver without Netflix? Who do you think needs the other more: ISPs or Netflix? rolleyes.gif

Relevance? If the ISPs won't let Netflix pay them for Open Connect access then business proceeds as usual; Netflix delivers their service to their customers through the other CDNs as they always have. They're simply not willing to increase the volume of content which they deliver that way.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:54 AM
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Don't forget as well that many of the ISP's that are not signed up have their own video services to sell. Verizon is partnered with Redbox and the others have a vested interest in pay per view content.

Very good point. My landlord got access to Comcast's Xfinity IP VOD via obtaining an out of state buddy's log-in info and he loves it, spending a ton of time lounging in bed after work watching it on his iPad, preferring it to watching Netflix on the panel in the living room. Comcast is also one of the current owners of Hulu, which is for sale, with TWC as one of the prime possible buyers (as is AT&T). The largest ISPs have their own IP VOD service offerings; they can't stop their cable customers from using Netflix but they can decline to do anything to help Netflix improve their service.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:59 AM
 
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And yet that's exactly what Netflix is trying to do. Where do you see "symbiosis"? Netflix is paying the CDNs for a service and the CDNs aren't giving them anything other than that service. If Netflix can provide that service for itself it doesn't need them.

Really? You don't see it? Let's break it down, shall we? Does Netflix need CDNs? Yes, to host and deliver contents. Do CDNs need Netflix? Yes, to get paid. If two parties need each other, could that relationship be called symbiotic? Why, yes. rolleyes.gif
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Relevance? If the ISPs won't let Netflix pay them for Open Connect access then business proceeds as usual; Netflix delivers their service to their customers through the other CDNs as they always have. They're simply not willing to increase the volume of content which they deliver that way.

How do you know ISPs won't let Netflix pay them for Open Connect? Are you "making a statement out of your behind" again? rolleyes.gif

Yes, Netflix can deliver SuperHD/3D via other CDNs if they choose to. As you've said, Netflix doesn't want to pay for it. The point, which I've made many times and you don't seem to get, is that Netflix is not being honest. Netflix makes it seem like it's ISPs who are preventing SuperHD/3D, not their own unwillingness to pay. The customers' inability to get SuperHD/3D lies squarely with Netflix, not ISPs.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:12 PM
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And you know this how? rolleyes.gif Aren't you doing what you are accusing me of doing, i.e., making a statement out of your behind? "You're guessing and I think that it's really bad one" Sound familiar?

Akamai, Level 3 and Limelight charge their customers for servers and storage online; that's what they do and AFAIK the only thing they do. I don't know the specifics of their deals with Netflix but I'd be shocked if they'd let Netflix double their storage requirements and significantly increase their bandwidth demands without asking them to pay more. I'd consider my assumption that Netflix will have to pay the other CDNs more to host two or three times as much content and use significantly more bandwidth to be a lot better guess than your thinking that they're asking the ISPs to let Open Connect CDN traffic into their networks without paying them as much as the other CDNs do.

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Old 06-27-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Akamai, Level 3 and Limelight charge their customers for servers and storage online; that's what they do and AFAIK the only thing they do. I don't know the specifics of their deals with Netflix but I'd be shocked if they'd let Netflix double their storage requirements and significantly increase their bandwidth demands without asking them to pay more.

??? Where did this come from? Of course, CDNs charge by "freight" to borrow your verbiage. Did someone say otherwise? You really like stating the obvious.
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I'd consider my assumption that Netflix will have to pay the other CDNs more to host two or three times as much content and use significantly more bandwidth to be a lot better guess than your thinking that they're asking the ISPs to let Open Connect CDN traffic into their networks without paying them as much as the other CDNs do.

No, the assumption that you made was:
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Even if Netflix will pay what the other CDNs are paying to bring their freight into the ISPs' systems, they save massively by not having to pay those other CDNs enough to make a profit on top of that plus the cost of storage to host their growing library.
How do you know Netflix will save massively? What's massive? Do you have some number in mind? Are you privy to Netflix's strategy? Are you speaking figuratively? Or are you, to borrow your verbiage, "making a statement out of your behind"?

Netflix having to pay more to CDNs for hosting and deliverying more, which I reiterate, is quite obvious. It's not some rare business insight that you are revealing. Let me ask you this: Why is Netflix keeps emphasizing that it's offering Open Connect "free"? What does that mean? What do you think it means? Why wouldn't (and doesn't) ISPs like "free"?
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

Really? You don't see it? Let's break it down, shall we? Does Netflix need CDNs? Yes, to host and deliver contents. Do CDNs need Netflix? Yes, to get paid. If two parties need each other, could that relationship be called symbiotic? Why, yes. rolleyes.gif

Okay--I'll grant you "symbiotic", just like my relationship with the corner bakery. But now that Netflix has their own CDN they only need the others to deliver content which they can't deliver via Open Connect. If I start baking my own bread I don't need that bakery either.
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How do you know ISPs won't let Netflix pay them for Open Connect? Are you "making a statement out of your behind" again? rolleyes.gif

Okay, it's a guess. But I'm guessing that Netflix comes to the ISPs offering them the same terms that the other CDNs do for the same access, if not a little better. If they pay what the other CDNs pay they still save tremendously over paying those CDNs since they have to pay them enough for profit (like buying wholesale versus retail). They further save by not paying the CDNs for storage of their library, the use of their servers or bandwidth. You're guessing that they're asking the ISPs to lose money, a disincentive that no one could ever expect to work. I can't see that Cox, fourth largest cable MSO in the country (until recently third, Verizon having passed them by a couple 100K subs) or Cablevision would have accepted such a deal; you're assuming that they would have. A minor marketing bullet point, which Cox isn't even using, would not have been nearly enough to justify it. Netflix is saying that their bringing their traffic into the ISPs' networks via Open Connect is more efficient and advantageous to the ISPs (and reduces the load on the open Internet, benefiting every network user, Netflix sub or not); the ISPs who've taken the deal obviously agree.
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Yes, Netflix can deliver SuperHD/3D via other CDNs if they choose to. As you've said, Netflix doesn't want to pay for it. The point, which I've made many times and you don't seem to get, is that Netflix is not being honest. Netflix makes it seem like it's ISPs who are preventing SuperHD/3D, not their own unwillingness to pay. The customers' inability to get SuperHD/3D lies squarely with Netflix, not ISPs.

That's your spin (and TWC's rolleyes.gif). Please show me one place where Netflix has said "Your ISP is to blame for your not having access to our Super HD and 3D video products". What they've said is, "If you have access to our Open Connect CDN through your ISP then you can get our Super HD and 3D video encodes." Whose fault is it if your ISP does not have access to Open Connect when Netflix offers it to all (I presume on the same terms as other CDNs get for the same access)? You decide.

I guess that they could have said, "Offering Super HD and 3D video via our current CDN providers would require that we pay them for more than twice as much storage and significantly more bandwidth consumption. We can't afford to do that without increasing our fees to all of our customers which we're trying desperately to avoid. We've developed our own content delivery network which will cost us much less than hosting our services on the CDNs that we use now, allowing us to deliver better service with more features to you without increasing our costs. If and when your ISP arranges access to our new CDN, which we're offering to every ISP, you'll have access to these new features, which we unfortunately cannot afford to offer via other means".

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:59 PM
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Okay--I'll grant you "symbiotic", just like my relationship with the corner bakery. But now that Netflix has their own CDN they only need the others to deliver content which they can't deliver via Open Connect. If I start baking my own bread I don't need that bakery either.

Man, you really don't get it. Corner bakery is not CDN. Corner bakery is ISP in your example.
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Okay, it's a guess. But I'm guessing that Netflix comes to the ISPs offering them the same terms that the other CDNs do for the same access, if not a little better. If they pay what the other CDNs pay they still save tremendously over paying those CDNs since they have to pay them enough for profit (like buying wholesale versus retail). They further save by not paying the CDNs for storage of their library, the use of their servers or bandwidth. You're guessing that they're asking the ISPs to lose money, a disincentive that no one could ever expect to work. I can't see that Cox, fourth largest cable MSO in the country (until recently third, Verizon having passed them by a couple 100K subs) or Cablevision would have accepted such a deal; you're assuming that they would have. A minor marketing bullet point, which Cox isn't even using, would not have been nearly enough to justify it. Netflix is saying that their bringing their traffic into the ISPs' networks via Open Connect is more efficient and advantageous to the ISPs (and reduces the load on the open Internet, benefiting every network user, Netflix sub or not); the ISPs who've taken the deal obviously agree.

If you are going to make a guess, make a guess based on logic and plausibility. You are basing your guess on baseless non-sense. You really were projecting when you said about "making a statement out of your behind," weren't you? What business will turn down opportunity to turn profit? Seriously, the stuff that I'm talking about is something any business undergrad would understand.
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That's your spin (and TWC's rolleyes.gif). Please show me one place where Netflix has said "Your ISP is to blame for your not having access to our Super HD and 3D video products". What they've said is, "If you have access to our Open Connect CDN through your ISP then you can get our Super HD and 3D video encodes." Whose fault is it if your ISP does not have access to Open Connect when Netflix offers it to all (I presume on the same terms as other CDNs get for the same access)? You decide.

Seriously? Didn't we discuss this ad nauseum back several months ago? On whom is Netflix placing onus? That's right, the ISPs. To whom is Netflix asking its clients to call and pressure for Open Connect? That's right, ISPs. Why would ISPs turn down paying customer? They wouldn't. Again these are basic business concepts... cost vs benefit, etc. etc.
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I guess that they could have said, "Offering Super HD and 3D video via our current CDN providers would require that we pay them for more than twice as much storage and significantly more bandwidth consumption. We can't afford to do that without increasing our fees to all of our customers which we're trying desperately to avoid. We've developed our own content delivery network which will cost us much less than hosting our services on the CDNs that we use now, allowing us to deliver better service with more features to you without increasing our costs. If and when your ISP arranges access to our new CDN, which we're offering to every ISP, you'll have access to these new features, which we unfortunately cannot afford to offer via other means".

Really? Threaten your customers with higher cost? Hope you don't run your own business, fella.

Obviously, I am wasting time with you. You should pay me tuition for all the free education I'm giving you. wink.gif
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:19 PM
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I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere, but when using a launch model PS3 and a Super HD stream with DD+ isn't the PS3 suppose to convert the DD+ to regular DD? When I check the 2 available options for audio on those titles I get no sound at all when the DD+ audio is selected and only DD 2.0 when the other option is selected. My AVR does not decode DD+ just the regular DD.

Is this the wrong thread for the above question?
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:58 PM
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Could be but how do you have the PS3 set for audio output? Bitstream? LPCM?

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