The Future Beyond Optical Media - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-27-2013, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I think it is inevitable (and most people will probably agree) that the internet is eventually going to take over all home-theater purchases, both rentals and purchases. For my own self, I haven't rented an optical disc in years. At the same time, I have yet to actually buy a film in the cloud, and all of my purchases have been on Blu-Ray discs.

I wanted to start a place for people to talk about the future of content delivery beyond optical media (DVDs, Blu-Rays, etc.). A place to discuss for the good and the bad of home entertainment when the internet finally takes over.

For my own part, I am both excited and nervous about the future of home media buying. On one hand, one cannot deny that the internet is great for instantaneous purchases, and the idea that I can purchase a film and access it anywhere in the world on a whim is appealing. At the same time, I am concerned about the current lack of an industry leader in film purchases (the next "Format War" will almost certainly be a "Service War"), the barrier of entry for independent films (as of now they can self-produce blu-rays or DVDs, but getting picked up by a streaming service requires a contract), and a lack of quality compared to Blu-Ray (the internet is getting there, but not quite).

How do you guys feel?
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post #2 of 22 Old 06-28-2013, 11:48 AM
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Great thread Crisis. As a movie purchaser not renter I will be eventually be buying my films online and prefer to use Ultraviolet. I will download, not stream my purchases from my own home server and look forward to the UV Common File Format to be released. I dont think the studios are going to abandon the collector market and retail market. There is too much money to be made there but I believe the way we collect will change to files that can be stored on whatever medium we choose.
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-28-2013, 12:11 PM
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Wanted to also point out that with the internet I think it is much easier to get your independent film out there as it was when you had to make physical media. Its very easy to setup a download server and very very easy in this social media world to get the word or hype out about your motion picture.

As far as format wars havent the studios signed on to services like UV and itunes already? They seem to be working side by side without issues except compatible issues across both systems.
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-28-2013, 01:02 PM
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Personally the last movie I purchased was the Dark Knight Trilogy on Blu-ray, and I haven't had the desire to get one since. I guess I'm going the way of digital media, myself since I'm trying to minimize how much "stuff" I personally own.

Since I now have an HTPC, I've been going and ripping all of my media to it and getting rid of all the jewel cases they came in. So now instead of a giant bookshelf worth of cases, I've got a booklet with all my discs in it.

My personal thing about digital media in general is that I like having the digital copy available on a laptop or HTPC and be able to stream it from one device to another, or take it with me on an iphone or tablet.

BUT I also like having a physical copy of the disc in case of a crash, or if I need to move it over to a new unit.

So I'm a little cautious about making digital purchases since I'm not getting a physical copy of the item.

There are some companies I don't mind buying digital products from, such as Steam for games, iTunes for music and apps, or the occasional Amazon mp3, but I would be cautious jumping to a new company that doesn't have the established track record or length of existence as those companies.

I do agree that digital media (streaming, downloading, etc) is becoming more and more the way to go, and it is helpful like Sarah said for Indie films or music to get more exposure, but I'm afraid I'm going to be one of those people that finds it hard to let go of the old model of having physical discs with the media on it.
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post #5 of 22 Old 06-29-2013, 07:09 AM
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I too have several digital accounts (VUDU, Amazon Prime, Netflix, etc.) but for the most part they are used on the iPad or PC. If the day should come when there is no media (disc, unknown widget, etc.) available that is not covered by the First Sale Doctrine then sales to me cease.

IMO, IPTV is just one big CF for the average person and I do not see that changing anytime soon. CFF is nothing more than another version of H.264. It does have lossless audio in the specs but I wager it will be a long time, if ever, before IPTV providers use it.


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post #6 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 11:37 AM
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With all the content restrictions and you have to worry if your content is available tomorrow because it the content expired optical media is not going anywhere. Streaming is great but it will NEVER REPLACE A PHYSICAL DISC which you own forever and no studio can take away from you.

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post #7 of 22 Old 07-28-2013, 10:02 PM
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You may own the physical disc but you will never own the content on it. Licensing and distribution is a total mess right now. Much will change over the next 5 years as licences expire and we will see who the winners and losers are. Right now, cable is still in the driver's seat. The market is their's to lose. Netflix is still making progress but their survival is not assured. The problems with Hulu is very revealing and shows just how unsure of the future the content owners are.
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post #8 of 22 Old 07-29-2013, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

With all the content restrictions and you have to worry if your content is available tomorrow because it the content expired optical media is not going anywhere. Streaming is great but it will NEVER REPLACE A PHYSICAL DISC which you own forever and no studio can take away from you.
Wanna bet? AACS keys can easily be rescinded.


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post #9 of 22 Old 08-02-2013, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Wanna bet? AACS keys can easily be rescinded.

Not so easy to do on a "non-connected" player.
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post #10 of 22 Old 08-02-2013, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Wanna bet? AACS keys can easily be rescinded.
The keys can be rescinded but they must be replaced with new ones. Your post is reeks of FUD and BS.
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post #11 of 22 Old 08-02-2013, 02:56 PM
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They could update the keys on NEW disks, but existing disks and players would still work with the old keys.

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post #12 of 22 Old 08-03-2013, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

They could update the keys on NEW disks, but existing disks and players would still work with the old keys.

True, and the disc would also update the player keys so it would play the disc with new keys. AACS info here for those inclined to read thru all that stuff.


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post #13 of 22 Old 08-03-2013, 08:23 PM
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I was hoping that read-only flash media would replace DVD but prices never went down enough and capacities never went up enough to compete with Blu-ray.

My usage these days includes streaming from Amazon, disc rentals from Blockbuster via mail and rare Blu-ray purchase. I almost never purchase anything that has to be streamed via internet except several TV show episodes here and there from latest seasons that I really consider rentals because I am not likely to watch them again.

I am concerned that Blu-Ray will be the last physical distribution media and nothing will replace it. Everything will move to streaming online when you will never actually own anything.
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-04-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe007 View Post

I was hoping

Stamped disc (78s, 45s, 33⅓s, CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray) were and are cheap to produce and can be turned out in large quantities. IMO, flash memory (NOR or NAND) is not a long term storage medium. At some point that charge on the gate of the NMOS transistor will dissipate which means the data will be lost.

The content providers would love a digital only distribution model but consumers seem to have little interest in digital ownership (EST). Digital only distribution means no First Sale Doctrine which would end mail, B&M and kiosk (Redbox, Blockbuster, Netflix, etc.) rentals. For myself, if the day should come when there is no content available that is not covered by the First Sale Doctrine then ALL purchases by me will cease. I have Netflix BD rental and streaming, Amazon Prime, VUDU and many UV titles and they are no sub for Blu-ray disc much less the upcoming 4K Blu-ray.


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post #15 of 22 Old 08-04-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

The content providers would love a digital only distribution model but consumers seem to have little interest in digital ownership (EST).

"EST"? What indication do you have of the level of consumer interest in digital ownership? It's been on offer by Amazon, VUDU and CinemaNow and the like for many years. Have you seen sales numbers or something?

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post #16 of 22 Old 08-05-2013, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

"EST"? What indication do you have of the level of consumer interest in digital ownership? It's been on offer by Amazon, VUDU and CinemaNow and the like for many years. Have you seen sales numbers or something?

Yes I have read reports that includes data from NPD and IHS on EST. It has been a few months ago and IIRC, TV shows made up a very large portion of EST. The total EST was ≈ 16% of consumer spending in 2012, which is up 2% from 2011. I believe Apple was the big leader in EST.

Just curious, how many digital titles have you purchased outright? UV titles included with DVD and BD don't count.


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post #17 of 22 Old 08-05-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Just curious, how many digital titles have you purchased outright? UV titles included with DVD and BD don't count.

Only a couple of films--I got antsy waiting for Prometheus and VUDU had it about a month before it hit disc. Also one or two difficult to find independent films. Most of the stuff that I own are television episodes which I missed recording for one reason or other and I only own them because you can't rent them biggrin.gif.

But then, I'm not very interested in video media ownership, period. Very, very few films do I want to watch more than once every few years; it's a waste. I have a handful of gotta-see-it-best-possible-quality films (like Avatar) on BD but that's it. For me, online rental is more than adequate for most things.

Other types of media I pretty much only buy digitally these days. I've been reading e-books for a very, very long time, starting with the "Palm Reader" app on my Palm Pilot. I'm a voracious consumer of written fiction and I couldn't tell you what the last book I bought on paper was. And who buys CDs anymore? I've also converted to video gaming digital downloads and own about 20 Xbox Games on Demand titles and another 10 DD titles on PS3.

I was just curious as to where you get your impression of the level of consumer interest in digital ownership. What's EST?

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post #18 of 22 Old 08-05-2013, 04:25 PM
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Very, very few films do I want to watch more than once every few years; it's a waste.
Being a audiophile and music lover I listen to movies with as much or more attention paid to the sound and hence the desire for repeat viewings. Movie watching has been a planed event since 1985 when we purchased our Kloss Novabeam Model One A and the cost of projection tubes were so expensive. That continues today with projector lamps lasting only 2000 hours and costing $400.00 or more. So when I do sit down to watch something I want it to be top notch

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And who buys CDs anymore?
Me and quite a few other folks. If desired music was available and at less cost via FLAC downloads then I would go that route but alas, such is not the case.

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What's EST?
Sorry I missed that earlier, EST = Electronic Sell-Through, a.k.a. Digital Sell-Through


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post #19 of 22 Old 08-05-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Very, very few films do I want to watch more than once every few years; it's a waste.
Being a audiophile and music lover I listen to movies with as much or more attention paid to the sound and hence the desire for repeat viewings. Movie watching has been a planed event since 1985 when we purchased our Kloss Novabeam Model One A and the cost of projection tubes were so expensive. That continues today with projector lamps lasting only 2000 hours and costing $400.00 or more. So when I do sit down to watch something I want it to be top notch

Quote:
And who buys CDs anymore?
Me and quite a few other folks. If desired music was available and at less cost via FLAC downloads then I would go that route but alas, such is not the case.

My question would be what portion of the media market do A/V-ophiles at your level represent? Obviously a significant number of members of this forum, but most people are far less discerning than I am about these things. Though it's de rigueur now, I spent years trying to convince some friends and associates of the value of HD video. Even today I scold my housemate because she'll be watching the SD version of a television channel instead of its HD equivalent and it doesn't bother her, even though a huge percentage of the screen is consumed by pillarboxing and letterboxing bars rolleyes.gif. She's watching a 42" 1080p panel from 10' away, which should make filling the screen up even more important.

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post #20 of 22 Old 08-06-2013, 06:48 AM
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My question would be what portion of the media market do A/V-ophiles at your level represent?

IMO, very small. Folks talk about how Blu-ray has not replaced DVD and I just laugh. I find it amazing that Blu-ray has done as well as it has. IMO, Blu-ray will replace DVD when Macy's replaces Walmart. There is some irony here, IIRC, Walmart is now the leading seller of Blu-ray disc (beating out Best Buy).

Saw some info in recent months that showed something like 80% of people supposedly watching TV was also doing other activities (surfing, texting, etc.,).

The good part is, there seems to be enough of us to support quality hardware and content (Telarc 33⅓, ¼" Open Reel Audio Tape, LaserDisc, CD, βeta ED, DVD, D-Theater, Blu-ray and soon 4K Blu-ray).


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post #21 of 22 Old 08-06-2013, 12:44 PM
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Saw some info in recent months that showed something like 80% of people supposedly watching TV was also doing other activities (surfing, texting, etc.,).

I confess to doing it myself. There are some police/legal dramas which are 90% dialog; I watch the establishing scenes and just listen to the rest, playing puzzle games on my tablet or phone biggrin.gif.

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post #22 of 22 Old 08-06-2013, 02:00 PM
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Since BluRay players can play DVD's and up-convert them to HD then DVDs won't go away anytime.

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