What devices support Netflix Super HD and 24p? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a new Roku, an Apple TV and some more devices that support. All output only 60fps. I find this very annoying when watching Netflix 24p content, such as House of Cards. Every few seconds (I'd say every 5 seconds), there is a noticeable jitter/judder or from skipping. You notice it when panning or when watching the credits rolling by. My wife doesn't notice, but for me this is not acceptable. So I am looking for a solution that streams native at 24p and supports Super HD. According to Netflix's support pages and Wikipedia, only these devices support Super HD:
  • Apple TV with 1080p: only 60fps
  • Google Chromecast: only 60fps
  • Nintendo Wii U: unknown
  • Roku with 1080p*: : only 60fps
  • Sony PlayStation 3: unknown
  • Sony PlayStation 4: unknown
  • TiVo Premiere DVR: unknown (I think it does 24fps), but expensive TiVo subscription required
  • Windows 8 App: I suppose it does 24fps when system and GPU support it?
  • Blu-Ray Players, Smart TV's, Home Theaters, and Streaming Players with existing Netflix 1080p support*
  • LG BD640: unknown
  • Xbox One: unknown

Can someone help with finding out if the "unknown" devices really do support 24 fps with Netflix?
Or any other devices?
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post #2 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 04:33 AM
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oops wrong thread.
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post #3 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredz85 View Post

I have a new Roku, an Apple TV and some more devices that support. All output only 60fps. I find this very annoying when watching Netflix 24p content, such as House of Cards. Every few seconds (I'd say every 5 seconds), there is a noticeable jitter/judder or from skipping. You notice it when panning or when watching the credits rolling by. My wife doesn't notice, but for me this is not acceptable. So I am looking for a solution that streams native at 24p and supports Super HD. According to Netflix's support pages and Wikipedia, only these devices support Super HD:
  • Apple TV with 1080p: only 60fps
  • Google Chromecast: only 60fps
  • Nintendo Wii U: unknown
  • Roku with 1080p*: : only 60fps
  • Sony PlayStation 3: unknown
  • Sony PlayStation 4: unknown
  • TiVo Premiere DVR: unknown (I think it does 24fps), but expensive TiVo subscription required
  • Windows 8 App: I suppose it does 24fps when system and GPU support it?
  • Blu-Ray Players, Smart TV's, Home Theaters, and Streaming Players with existing Netflix 1080p support*
  • LG BD640: unknown
  • Xbox One: unknown

Can someone help with finding out if the "unknown" devices really do support 24 fps with Netflix?
Or any other devices?

Their listing is far from complete and they omitted the WDTV Live (24p) which is found elsewhere on their website.

https://help.netflix.com/article/en/node/516?ba=GSButtonClick&q=WDTV%20Live

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1089285/netflix-streaming-quality/3780#post_24156001

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post #4 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Mr G: very interesting. Does the WD TV Live also do Super HD? And do the other services, such as Hulu Plus, support native 24p as well?
Netflix also does 24p native, correct?
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post #5 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 10:28 AM
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post #6 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, but Hulu Plus isn't mentioned there - only Netflix and Vudu.
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post #7 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 12:32 PM
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post #8 of 94 Old 03-11-2014, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredz85 View Post

Mr G: very interesting. Does the WD TV Live also do Super HD?

Generally anything which supports 1080p also supports "Super HD", it being 2 additional 1080p video encodes. That would probably include just about every stationary device with a streaming Netflix player released in the past few years. I have 13 non-portable Netflix playing devices and the only ones which are 720p only are the Xbox 360, 2011 Panasonic DMP-BDT110 and TiVo Series3 (the other 10 are this PC, TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, PS3, Xbox One, WD TV Live, Roku 3, Roku 2 XS, Panasonic DMP-BDT220 and Sony BDP-S390, all 1080p Super HD capable). The Xbox 360's Netflix player is artificially limited to 720p; the only streaming players on Xbox 360 which support 1080p are Xbox Video and VUDU (and they originally restricted VUDU to 720p).

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post #9 of 94 Old 03-15-2014, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried "match video framerate" set to on my WD Live for Netflix. I chose a 1080p24 episode, and was expecting that the video output from my WD Live would switch to 24p (ie the screen would go black for a second and I would see my TV switching to 1080p 24 Hz). But nothing happens, although I have full bandwidth. Am I missing something here? On Blurays, I get 24p just fine.
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post #10 of 94 Old 03-15-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredz85 View Post

I tried "match video framerate" set to on my WD Live for Netflix. I chose a 1080p24 episode, and was expecting that the video output from my WD Live would switch to 24p (ie the screen would go black for a second and I would see my TV switching to 1080p 24 Hz). But nothing happens, although I have full bandwidth. Am I missing something here? On Blurays, I get 24p just fine.

The link is a little dated but the gist of the subject is covered.

Quote:
As nice as this feature is, here’s the rub: There’s no easy way to tell if Netflix content is encoded at 24 fps or 30 fps before you start a title. In theory, movies should all be at 24 fps and TV shows at 30 fps. In reality, that’s not the case. Some TV shows were shot on film and are encoded at 24 fps. Some examples include Battlestar Galactica and Sons of Anarchy. My sources tell me that consumer electronics manufacturers should be able to implement a feature that auto-senses the frame rate and be able to output 24 fps when appropriate. (in theory the Boxee can do it but it doesn’t support 1080P in Netflix). If you do set the frame rate to 24 fps and the material was encoded at 30 fps, you’ll realize it very quickly! So, there’s still an opportunity for a company to come out with a Netflix device that automatically detects and outputs the proper frame rate of streaming content.

http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/03/best-netflix-device-living-room.html

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post #11 of 94 Old 03-15-2014, 02:41 PM
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He posted about this in another thread and I addressed it here.

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post #12 of 94 Old 03-16-2014, 03:57 AM
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Samsung blu ray player BD-F5900 or the 59C which is the Costco version support Super HD and are able to stream at 24p.
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post #13 of 94 Old 03-16-2014, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredz85 View Post

I tried "match video framerate" set to on my WD Live for Netflix. I chose a 1080p24 episode, and was expecting that the video output from my WD Live would switch to 24p (ie the screen would go black for a second and I would see my TV switching to 1080p 24 Hz). But nothing happens, although I have full bandwidth. Am I missing something here? On Blurays, I get 24p just fine.

I'm not sure what your equipment problem is but I tested Netflix last night with my WDTV Live. Changed the setting on the WDTV Live to 1080 24p. Went to Netflix and played two shows. First was the Japanese anime Attack on Titan, second was the The Avengers movie. Both my Panasonic plasma and front projector acknowledged the programs were streaming at 1080 24p.

I don't usually use the WDTV Live for Netflix but when I do I have no problem watching content with the original 'auto' setting - 1080 60p. Haven't noticed any stuttering with either setting.

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post #14 of 94 Old 03-18-2014, 02:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

I'm not sure what your equipment problem is but I tested Netflix last night with my WDTV Live. Changed the setting on the WDTV Live to 1080 24p. Went to Netflix and played two shows. First was the Japanese anime Attack on Titan, second was the The Avengers movie. Both my Panasonic plasma and front projector acknowledged the programs were streaming at 1080 24p.
I don't usually use the WDTV Live for Netflix but when I do I have no problem watching content with the original 'auto' setting - 1080 60p. Haven't noticed any stuttering with either setting.
Yes, you changed it manually, that works. But we're looking at an automatic solution, which switches the output according to the source. That, the WD TV Live can't do.
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post #15 of 94 Old 03-29-2015, 07:04 AM
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Sorry to revive an old thread but the issue still exists; Netflix communicates big time about codecs, resolution/bitrates, but not a word about framerates! It is not surprising in fact, given that most of their applications/supported devices do weird things with it, aka no native output most of the time by not supporting 24p :/ I was disappointed to see that both PS3 and Chromecast only output 60fps, so I started to look for an affordable option to get 24p from Netflix (using my laptop with forced fps not being an option although technically giving acceptable results). I ended up purchasing a Samsung BD-H5500, which can do 24p with a trick: first playing 24p content (either USB or disc), then the UI and Netflix remain in that mode... Not very convenient! Moreover where I live standard is 50Hz so most 60Hz content is displayed at 50Hz causing stuttering.. the player is going back!
I am back to the original question, what Netflix device support auto 24p?
Thanks for your help
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post #16 of 94 Old 03-29-2015, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt View Post
where I live standard is 50Hz so most 60Hz content is displayed at 50Hz causing stuttering.. the player is going back!
I am back to the original question, what Netflix device support auto 24p?

What country do you live in?


The UK is 50hz and the only device that will auto detect the Netflix frame rate is a Tivo provided by Virgin Media.


A box that has selectable frame rate output (incl. 24fps) is the previous version of the WDTV. It is the 'WDTV Live Streaming Media Player'.


It has the old Netflix UI, which is not a problem IMHO.
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post #17 of 94 Old 03-29-2015, 12:00 PM
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What country do you live in?


The UK is 50hz and the only device that will auto detect the Netflix frame rate is a Tivo provided by Virgin Media.


A box that has selectable frame rate output (incl. 24fps) is the previous version of the WDTV. It is the 'WDTV Live Streaming Media Player'.


It has the old Netflix UI, which is not a problem IMHO.
passingbat, the h6500 is reportedly working fine. I will let you know when I get mine (I live in 50Hz land too, .fr).
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post #18 of 94 Old 03-29-2015, 02:47 PM
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Netflix doesn't make any issue about this because it's not something that 99.99% of their customers would give a damn about. I doubt that they even maintain a list of devices which can output their 24p content as a 24Hz signal.

WD TV Live Streaming does output a 24Hz signal for 24p content but it doesn't do it automatically. I have to set mine to output 1080p24Hz and then it outputs everything that way, which is fine by me. Since I prefer my TiVo for streaming services (it's processor is much faster so the UIs are much more responsive to commands) I only use TV Live Streaming for playing downloaded 24p video clips, generally as loaded on USB flash drives.

TiVo Roamio and TiVo Premiere can output a 24Hz signal for 24p content from Netflix, Amazon Instant Video and VUDU automatically; if it gets any other framerate from those sources it outputs them at 60Hz. I was using my Roamio to watch Orphan Black on Amazon the other day and noticed that the episodes were being output at 24Hz but the little "making of" commentary clips on each episode were output at 60Hz (probably encoded at 30 fps). Of course, TiVos cannot be used without TiVo service.

My 2012 Panasonic DMP-BDT220 BDP can output 24Hz from streaming sources, but you have to both have 24Hz output enabled in the global settings (all you need for 24Hz output of discs) and to enable locally in the settings every time after you start a streaming app. Having enabled it, you can watch multiple titles without exiting the app without having to enable it again. I believe that Panasonic removed that feature from subsequent model years.

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post #19 of 94 Old 03-31-2015, 11:48 AM
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New Sony x500 series BD players are reportedly 24p capable for all streaming, DLNA and file playback.
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post #20 of 94 Old 03-31-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
New Sony x500 series BD players are reportedly 24p capable for all streaming, DLNA and file playback.
Well, what matters to me is the ability to switch automatically based on content, and not having to do something to get 24p when appropriate. H5500 is able to output 24p if you played a disc/file before... seeing the result convinced me that I wanted something that worked properly. In this day and age and given both makers and Netflix abilities to do the right thing, I am really surprised that nobody gives a sh*t about this issue but a few geeks on a forum Are people that much more sensitive to resolution than motion?
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post #21 of 94 Old 03-31-2015, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt View Post
Well, what matters to me is the ability to switch automatically based on content, and not having to do something to get 24p when appropriate. H5500 is able to output 24p if you played a disc/file before... seeing the result convinced me that I wanted something that worked properly. In this day and age and given both makers and Netflix abilities to do the right thing, I am really surprised that nobody gives a sh*t about this issue but a few geeks on a forum Are people that much more sensitive to resolution than motion?
That's a Samsung model number. I'm talking about the brand new Sony. It's apparently automatic. Old Sony players wouldn't stream 24p at all, so this is a big improvement. But I have to admit, I'm in the majority who don't give a sh*t. 24p judder looks just as bad as 2:3 pull down to me. I've never understood what all the fuss is about.
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post #22 of 94 Old 03-31-2015, 03:50 PM
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I don't think that any huge percentage of people are sensitive to 2:3 pulldown judder. Most television is shot in 24p to which 2:3 pulldown has been applied before broadcast. Some televisions capable of even pulldown (5:5, etc) have mechanisms for detecting that and converting.

To be honest, I'm not particularly sensitive to it but it gives me warm fuzzies to know that it's not being applied.

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post #23 of 94 Old 04-01-2015, 11:46 AM
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I am with you on this, Michael. I also buy newer things just to have that good feeling even when the features or lack there of don't bother me or I am not sensitive enough to appreciate them. As an example, I just bought a newer version of the IPTV set top box because it is supposed to be faster and better. I am yet to experience it but still feel good that I have the latest equipment.
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post #24 of 94 Old 04-03-2015, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
To be honest, I'm not particularly sensitive to it but it gives me warm fuzzies to know that it's not being applied.
I noticed it which was enough for me to look for a 'solution'. And the H5500 is not switching to 60Hz and keeps 50Hz (with 24p or 60p content) causing bad stuttering, giving me another reason to upgrade. I got the 6500 today and I am happy to see the image go blank while the refresh rate is being adjusted
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Nothing better than bringing up an old thread:

Aside from aging BluRay players and TiVo, is there a decent streaming box that can stream at 24p now?
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post #26 of 94 Old 04-26-2015, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingleberryinc View Post
Nothing better than bringing up an old thread:

Aside from aging BluRay players and TiVo, is there a decent streaming box that can stream at 24p now?
This is also relevant to my interests. I'm currently playing Netflix through the browser interface on my HTPC, but I'd like to find a solution that offers Dolby Digital audio and automatic 24p detection and output.
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post #27 of 94 Old 04-26-2015, 12:54 PM
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It's really sparse pickings, I am unsure why, as a decent HD movie streamed in 24p is far superior IMO.
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post #28 of 94 Old 04-27-2015, 12:21 PM
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When running a 60Hz on my LED I get light flicker with 24 fps titles on my Sony S1200. Not sure why the Netflix app does that but it may be a weird Sony thing. BD's play at 24 Hz though if that is the frame rate on the disc.
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post #29 of 94 Old 04-28-2015, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingleberryinc View Post
Nothing better than bringing up an old thread:

Aside from aging BluRay players and TiVo, is there a decent streaming box that can stream at 24p now?


My WD TV Live Streaming (WDBHG70000NBK, a 2011 model) has 1080p24 output; I'm not sure about subsequent models (be aware that the most recent model I saw doesn't include a Netflix app). I don't believe that it's auto-detecting like TiVo; select it and everything is output as a 24Hz signal.

As to why it's so rare, I'd guess that very few people are aware of the issue and many who are don't care. Relatively few televisions can output a 24Hz signal with even pulldown. The feature won't enhance sales, so most STB OEMs don't bother.

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post #30 of 94 Old 04-29-2015, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingleberryinc View Post
Nothing better than bringing up an old thread:

Aside from aging BluRay players and TiVo, is there a decent streaming box that can stream at 24p now?
The brand new x500 series Sonys reportedly stream 24p as well.
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