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post #1 of 28 Old 04-24-2014, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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"The principle that all Internet content should be treated equally as it flows through cables and pipes to consumers looks all but dead."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/technology/fcc-new-net-neutrality-rules.html?_r=0

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post #2 of 28 Old 04-24-2014, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

"The principle that all Internet content should be treated equally as it flows through cables and pipes to consumers looks all but dead."

IMO, it was never alive.
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post #3 of 28 Old 04-24-2014, 11:41 AM
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Well if we could get people off their butts watching streaming maybe we could get some activism going to turn up the heat on the corporations that want to make the Internet elitist.
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post #4 of 28 Old 04-24-2014, 03:12 PM
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Take action:

http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=9726&track=DP20140424&tag=DP20140424



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post #5 of 28 Old 04-24-2014, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

"The principle that all Internet content should be treated equally as it flows through cables and pipes to consumers looks all but dead."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/technology/fcc-new-net-neutrality-rules.html?_r=0
I agree with Wendell, you can't kill something that never was alive.
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post #6 of 28 Old 04-24-2014, 09:40 PM
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I agree with Wendell, you can't kill something that never was alive.


IMO, Net Neutrality is a principal that requires reform to become a practice. You can kill a practice, but a principle will always remain alive. wink.gif


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post #7 of 28 Old 04-25-2014, 05:58 AM
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IMHO, the US courts will never side with any business or entity where less than a dozen of them use a huge percentage of the data moved across the internet. Any regulation to the contrary will be/has been challenged.

The EU has enacted a rule for Europe that says carriers/ISP’s can not discriminate aganist data providers UNLESS those providers are using too much bandwidth. Takes effect 2015, IIRC. If they start to clog up the system then the carriers/ISP’s may throttle the data providers.
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post #8 of 28 Old 04-25-2014, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

IMHO, the US courts will never side with any business or entity where less than a dozen of them use a huge percentage of the data moved across the internet. Any regulation to the contrary will be/has been challenged.

The EU has enacted a rule for Europe that says carriers/ISP’s can not discriminate aganist data providers UNLESS those providers are using too much bandwidth. Takes effect 2015, IIRC. If they start to clog up the system then the carriers/ISP’s may throttle the data providers.

Good point. IMO the real problem here isn't necessarily charging tolls to those providers that use excessive bandwidth. The real issue I have with the FCC is allowing ISP's to charge fees indiscriminately. Charging smaller content providers such as start up companies who don't have the financial resources to pay them is just bad business.


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post #9 of 28 Old 04-25-2014, 01:00 PM
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The real issue I have with the FCC is allowing ISP's to charge fees indiscriminately. Charging smaller content providers such as start up companies who don't have the financial resources to pay them is just bad business.

You have to keep in mind Netflix would not be paying Comcast any fees if the they had continued to use CDN's that were already paying peering fees. I would wager that Netflix is paying other ISP's that are using Open Connect, IMO the major difference is they signed NDA's and Comcast would not or a limited one. My comment (sometime back) about the announcement of Netflix Open Connect was "If you want to play then you have to pay".

I still say it is just BS posturing by all the parties with the ultimate goal of extracting more money from the general public by all involved.
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post #10 of 28 Old 04-25-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

You have to keep in mind Netflix would not be paying Comcast any fees if the they had continued to use CDN's that were already paying peering fees. I would wager that Netflix is paying other ISP's that are using Open Connect, IMO the major difference is they signed NDA's and Comcast would not or a limited one. My comment (sometime back) about the announcement of Netflix Open Connect was "If you want to play then you have to pay".

I still say it is just BS posturing by all the parties with the ultimate goal of extracting more money from the general public by all involved.


And without any real regulatory oversight, the ISP monopoly has complete autonomy on pricing.


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post #11 of 28 Old 04-26-2014, 06:57 AM
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And without any real regulatory oversight, the ISP monopoly has complete autonomy on pricing.

AFAIK, it has always been this way, as is, the FCC can not regulate pricing. I believe in order to regulate pricing it would have to be a common carrier and if the FCC declares the internet a common carrier then I would wager it will land them in federal courts again and PO many members of congress.

A while back I was going to buy a smart phone outright because I did not want a data plan. AT&T, Verizon, etc. assured me that when I connected to the service it would activate the mandatory data plan. IMO, if most of the FCC was disbanded no one would miss them, spectrum regulation is about the only useful purpose they serve now days and even there big money rules the day.
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post #12 of 28 Old 04-26-2014, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

AFAIK, it has always been this way, as is, the FCC can not regulate pricing. I believe in order to regulate pricing it would have to be a common carrier and if the FCC declares the internet a common carrier then I would wager it will land them in federal courts again and PO many members of congress.

A while back I was going to buy a smart phone outright because I did not want a data plan. AT&T, Verizon, etc. assured me that when I connected to the service it would activate the mandatory data plan. IMO, if most of the FCC was disbanded no one would miss them, spectrum regulation is about the only useful purpose they serve now days and even there big money rules the day.

I agree, the FCC's job is not to regulate pricing, but they can create classifications based on how content is provided. The DC ruling made it clear that the FCC could consider labeling ISP's as telecoms, which IMO, for all intent and purposes they are. This would allow them to create net neutrality rules that would not necessary preclude ISP's from charging fees to bandwidth gluts, but would prevent them from indiscriminately tolling data providers, which as I posted before, is the real issue I have with what I consider is a monopolized service industry.


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post #13 of 28 Old 05-08-2014, 07:54 AM
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To: Chairman Wheeler and the rest of the Federal Communications Commission,
We want action for democratic media, not platitudes as smokescreens for corporate domination of the Internet. We want net neutrality.

Ian ...........

.......NJ.....
US

Quote:
His response:

Thank you very much for contacting us about the ongoing Open Internet proceeding. We're hoping to hear from as many people as possible about this critical issue, and so I'm very glad that we can include your thoughts and opinions.

I'm a strong supporter of the Open Internet, and I will fight to keep the internet open. Thanks again for sharing your views with me.

Tom Wheeler
Chairman
Federal Communications Commission


Seriously? rolleyes.gif


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post #14 of 28 Old 05-10-2014, 02:53 PM
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Funny: http://www.aol.com/article/2014/05/10/web-host-slaps-fcc-with-dial-up-speeds-over-net-neutrality/20883644/


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post #15 of 28 Old 05-15-2014, 11:54 AM
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Today the FCC approved a plan to consider paid priority on Internet: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/05/15/fcc-approves-plan-to-allow-for-paid-priority-on-internet/?tid=pm_business_pop


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post #16 of 28 Old 05-15-2014, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Today the FCC approved a plan to consider paid priority on Internet: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/05/15/fcc-approves-plan-to-allow-for-paid-priority-on-internet/?tid=pm_business_pop

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Bah! Next thing they'll do is approve the Comcast/Time Warner merger. No one cares as long as their Netflix streams without a hitch.

Where's the outrage? Call your politician? Sign a petition, picket a hearing - what other protest is left for the average man?

Net Neutrality is being overwhelmed and taken over by big money interests.

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post #17 of 28 Old 05-15-2014, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

Bah! Next thing they'll do is approve the Comcast/Time Warner merger. No one cares as long as their Netflix streams without a hitch.

Where's the outrage? Call your politician? Sign a petition, picket a hearing - what other protest is left for the average man?

Net Neutrality is being overwhelmed and taken over by big money interests.


http://act.demandprogress.org/act/fcc_nn_copy/%3Freferring_akid%3Da10720891.2437291.GBsOfC%26source%3Dauto-e



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post #18 of 28 Old 05-16-2014, 11:38 AM
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They went against the will of the public so we must get congress to redefine the broadband carriers as common carriers. Otherwise we have the robber barons again but this time their raping and pillaging is with communications. Hence call them telecomsters.
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post #19 of 28 Old 05-16-2014, 01:19 PM
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From the Washington Post.
Quote:
After weeks of public outcry over the proposal, FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler said the agency would not allow for unfair, or "commercially unreasonable," business practices. He wouldn't accept, for instance, practices that leave a consumer with slower downloads of some Web sites than what the consumer paid for from their Internet service provider.

Wheeler moved forward with a proposal that could allow new business arrangements between Internet service providers--such as AT&T, Verizon and Time Warner Cable--and Web content providers, such as Facebook, Google and online startups for preferential treatment online. But he also asked whether such deals should be banned outright.

"There is one Internet. It must be fast, it must be robust, and it must be open," Wheeler said. "The prospect of a gatekeeper choosing winners and losers on the Internet is unacceptable."

This all sounds well and good, however, since the FCC refuses to re-classify these ISP's as telecoms, (which IMO they are) I can not see how they can enforce these rules without the support of the courts.


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post #20 of 28 Old 05-18-2014, 01:46 PM
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Get ready to bend over if the telecomsters get their way.mad.gif
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post #21 of 28 Old 05-18-2014, 03:50 PM
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Get ready to bend over if the telecomsters get their way.mad.gif


Wait! They're not finished yet! AT&T is buying DIRECTV! Soon it will be just Verizon, Comcast-Time Warner and AT&T!

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/05/18/atandt-acquires-directv-in-49b-deal/20887824/?icid=maing-grid7|maing11|dl1|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D477861


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post #22 of 28 Old 05-18-2014, 11:54 PM
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Wait! They're not finished yet! AT&T is buying DIRECTV! Soon it will be just Verizon, Comcast-Time Warner and AT&T!

Soon what will be just 'Verizon, Comcast-Time Warner and AT&T'?

As a DirecTV customer I am not excited by this - but also suspect they won't mess too much with a successful DirecTV business model. The satellites will stay in orbit.

So I will still have Comcast for HSI and AT&T (the provider previously known as DirecTV) for TV.

This seems more like a move of desperation by AT&T who were rapidly becoming irrelevant in the broadband / TV space - but has no effect on our (non-competitive) broadband market...
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post #23 of 28 Old 05-19-2014, 02:52 AM
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Soon what will be just 'Verizon, Comcast-Time Warner and AT&T'?

As a DirecTV customer I am not excited by this - but also suspect they won't mess too much with a successful DirecTV business model. The satellites will stay in orbit.

So I will still have Comcast for HSI and AT&T (the provider previously known as DirecTV) for TV.

This seems more like a move of desperation by AT&T who were rapidly becoming irrelevant in the broadband / TV space - but has no effect on our (non-competitive) broadband market...
More like Direct Tv trying to keep Dish at bay. A merger with ATT will keep Dish away.

"Bring out yer dead!".."Wait I'm not dead yet!"..(Sound Austrian here) "WRONG !!" (You know what happens next..)
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post #24 of 28 Old 05-19-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Soon what will be just 'Verizon, Comcast-Time Warner and AT&T'?

As a DirecTV customer I am not excited by this - but also suspect they won't mess too much with a successful DirecTV business model. The satellites will stay in orbit.

So I will still have Comcast for HSI and AT&T (the provider previously known as DirecTV) for TV.

This seems more like a move of desperation by AT&T who were rapidly becoming irrelevant in the broadband / TV space - but has no effect on our (non-competitive) broadband market...


As a DTV customer I'm not exited about this either. Soon, all we will have to choose from is those three carriers lol. I was joking in reference to these mergers, which IMO will reduce the playing field. Less competition is not a good thing.

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More like Direct Tv trying to keep Dish at bay. A merger with ATT will keep Dish away.


Actually Dish and DIRECTV have been seriously addressing the idea of merging again. http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/dish-sets-stage-for-directv-merger-with-transfer-of-satellites-analyst-1201115338/I'm wondering how the ATT&T deal would effect it. I don't believe that competition from Dish has ever been a major concern for DIRECTV, which continues to average about 5 million more subscribers.


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post #25 of 28 Old 05-19-2014, 09:28 AM
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Welcome to Blade Runner world or Continuum 2077 (Kiera: "just wait until the phone company IS the government").
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post #26 of 28 Old 05-19-2014, 12:19 PM
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Welcome to Blade Runner world or Continuum 2077 (Kiera: "just wait until the phone company IS the government").

Funny I was thinking of Continuum (and Blade Runner remains one of my favorite all time films).

That said the AT&T / DirecTV deal doesn't feel like it makes a lot of sense - unless AT&T is just looking for a cash cow - albeit one that is likely to decline in the long term.

DirecTV Deal Leads AT&T in Wrong Direction

http://stream.wsj.com/story/markets/SS-2-5/SS-2-535351/


In case the link doesn't work here's the article

DirecTV Deal Leads AT&T in Wrong Direction

Buying DirecTV might yield some short-term financial benefit to AT&T, but it does little to advance its long-term strategic interests.

By Miriam Gottfried

AT&T is buying itself a raft with a slow leak.

The No. 2 U.S. wireless carrier by subscribers said late Sunday it is acquiring DirecTV for $95 a share in cash and stock, or a total $67.1 billion, including net debt. The combined company would control 26 million U.S. pay-TV subscribers, making it a close second player to Comcast and Time Warner Cable should the two get regulatory approval to combine.

AT&T and DirecTV are pitching the merger to shareholders as a way to bundle services and deliver more video content to mobile phones and other devices. But the deal may be more about boosting AT&T’s current financials than positioning it strategically for the future.

AT&T expects the deal, which represents a 13% premium to DirecTV’s closing price Friday, to be accretive to free cash flow and earnings per share within 12 months. The companies also expect to achieve annual cost savings of $1.6 billion by the third year after closing, thanks to more favorable deals with content companies and by combining back-office functions.

To avoid a conflict of interest in DirecTV’s Latin American business, AT&T also will sell its 8.6% stake in América Móvil, worth roughly $7 billion before taxes. These benefits should give the company more firepower to bid in the government’s auction of broadcast wireless spectrum, expected in 2015, while guaranteeing the safety of its dividend.

In announcing the DirecTV deal, AT&T pledged to bid at least $9 billion in the auction, providing there is sufficient spectrum being sold. The extent to which broadcasters will agree to participate in the auction remains to be seen.

Beyond that, the deal seems to do little to bolster AT&T’s core wireless business. Wireless, which accounts for 85% of AT&T’s value, according to New Street Research, has been buffeted by heightened industry competition.

AT&T says it plans to bundle its wireless and broadband services with DirecTV’s video offerings. But about 41% of DirecTV’s current subscribers aren’t in AT&T’s broadband footprint, according to Guggenheim Securities. AT&T is currently investing in broadband and announced plans to expand further into rural areas, using some of the cost savings from the merger. But it is unclear how many DirecTV customers can be convinced to switch their mobile phone plans to AT&T.

More fundamentally, analysts say U.S. video consumption is shifting away from satellite toward providers that offer more integrated broadband and video services. DirecTV’s customer base is likely to begin to decline in the next few years as cable competitors introduce more advanced technology such as Comcast’s X1 platform, according to UBS. This suggests satellite TV could take the place of wireline phone service, another shrinking business, as a primary drag on revenue growth.

Granted, DirecTV has so far managed to stave off subscriber defections through innovative packages and exclusive content such as the National Football League Sunday Ticket. DirecTV had said it is confident it can strike a renewal deal with the NFL by the end of the year. But the satellite company may be less nimble as a subsidiary of AT&T.

For AT&T investors, a merger with DirecTV isn’t the best call.
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post #27 of 28 Old 05-19-2014, 01:38 PM
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Welcome to Blade Runner world or Continuum 2077 (Kiera: "just wait until the phone company IS the government").

Love Continuum. Love Rachel Nichols even more.





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post #28 of 28 Old 06-03-2014, 12:21 AM
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Amusing and may get more people engaged (do watch it to the end....)

John Oliver (HBO): Net Neutrality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU&feature=kp
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