Kaleidescape Alto Official AVSForum Review - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 115 Old 02-10-2015, 01:26 PM
 
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Yep, it's a lifestyle. ...And with everything that comes with it, and don't.
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post #92 of 115 Old 02-11-2015, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BigHat View Post
Link favorite songs/scenes from as many B_Rs as you wish and make your own custom concert too. Many other features.
This! I love that I can make a script that will play my 1 or 2 favorite songs from each of 50 different BR concerts or musicals. Press one button and they play in order start to finish. No replacing discs no manually picking songs from the new disc.

I can do the same with movie scenes.
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post #93 of 115 Old 02-11-2015, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
I'd love to see a figure of how many units total Kalidescape has sold. Every time I read a write up on one of these on here I think the same thing, "$2500!?... For that?" For that much cheddar I'd at least hope you'd get some color options, and that it would be made of metal. I think this thing would have to be $500 max to garner wide spread interest. I really don't understand how that $2500 price tag is justified.
In July of 2013 there were 14,000 K customers. Of course they were for the much more expensive ($30K and up for a 3U server with 8 3TB drives and an M700 vault/player). I'm sure these bargain systems have boosted the user base quite a lot.
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post #94 of 115 Old 02-11-2015, 11:12 AM
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Give me an example of what you routinely love about it; like last night, or the night before, what did you do with your high-end Kaleidescape...did you watch a Blu-ray movie?

Tomorrow night; say you want to watch 'Predestination' or 'Nightcrawler' on Blu-ray, what do you have to do?

* Can you watch Disney's Frozen on Blu-ray and in 3D with your kids?
In an different order:
Well, of course you can watch Frozen on B_R. No 3D yet for K but 4K support is coming. I'm not a 3D fan, so either way I'm good with whatever they decide to support. Actually, with the kid's remote they only get G rated content so the only choices they get to choose from are the only movies you'd want them to watch. They can use the system w/o direct parental involvement on their viewing.

I actually watched Nightcrawler three days before general release. I got an email from the K-store announcing a special early release for $14.99 via direct download. Ordered it and it was ready to watch when I got home. No need to pay for the disc, packaging and shipping. I had been okay with paying a bit more for a B_R movie so as to not waste a vault space, but it turns out it's cheaper from them than from Amazon in many cases.

Can't say there's a "way" I use the K-system each time. Sometimes I just call up cover art and browse through it. I'll stop on a type of movie I like and the system is smart enough to reshuffle like movies around it. I'l often pick a movie and watch some or all of it. When it comes to concert discs it's the best, watch a few song from one, switch over to the other and never leave the couch. I really like having all of my media instantly available and I was very happy to get rid of binders of discs etc. I'm pretty organized, but let's just say a jewel case or binder slot did not hold the disc I was looking for from time to time. Most pleasure I get is having others browse and select what they want to watch.

I'm happy for anyone that's happy to get into the K-system with these new models, but personally I'd probably wouldn't have bothered. For one, I have too much content. Additionally, they are really made for DVD downloads from the store. With a large collection of movies already, I don't find it practical. For me, it was the big server where you could burn all your movies to disc and B_R movies also playing from the hard drives but residing in the vault/player for digital rights reasons. I have purchased online versions of B_R movies I already own as they only charge a minimal amount for them and it allows me to free up a disc slot in the vault. If you balk at $2,500 for the new unit, you're probably not too enamored with the idea of spending over $6K for the vault and player (M700) With 320 slots, you can think of a slot space to be $20. I'm doing my best to only have one. Mine was getting close to full, but now has 170 open slots. With more and more studios supporting the store, I can get a B_R movies I want in about 70 mins of download time on a FIOS 75mbs connection.

It's not an inexpensive system and I'd fault no one for thinking it's a poor value proposition. It's not a hard proposition to grasp though, so I doubt many make it because they "aren't smart."
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post #95 of 115 Old 02-11-2015, 01:03 PM
 
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Thanks for that, it was illuminating to read your view.

- Too sad that you and the kids are missing out on 3D, I truly believe. ...You're not the only one.
- That is cool that you can fast watch a flick like 'Nightcrawler' in all full hi-def video and full hi-res audio. ...And the price is right ($15).
- Do you have the disc's special features? ...Just curious.
- 4K (UHD) is cool; Netflix and VUDU I believe you can also get with.
- "Smart" ... don't put too much weight on the word, it is extremely vast. The smartest people on the planet don't always act smart @ all. ...Politicians and leaders ...

- Thirty grands is no small peanuts for the high-end Kaleidescape.
- $2,500 indeed is much easier for the digestion.
- Still, I like solid build audio/video components, and with solid connectors on the rear (RCA tiffany, XLR, gold plated, ...solid front aluminum face).
- And very true; I want access to all movie studios...the support is very important.
- I respect your choice, I only speak my voice.
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post #96 of 115 Old 02-15-2015, 10:51 AM
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You get all the special features that are available on the disc. All the good, none of the bad.
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post #97 of 115 Old 02-17-2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHat View Post
You get all the special features that are available on the disc. All the good, none of the bad.
That's not really true for lots of content in the K store. Look at the actual movie listings and you'll find very few movies are actually available with their special features accessible.
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post #98 of 115 Old 02-17-2015, 07:31 AM
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That's not really true for lots of content in the K store. Look at the actual movie listings and you'll find very few movies are actually available with their special features accessible.
The K- Store is no different from your own disc collection. If I import an early B_R of Aliens I'm not going to get Director's Cut of Aliens extras. If I import/buy the Director's Cut version I will. As many studios release the basic movie initially you can't fault the K-store for not having extras that don't exist in that version.

The point that's important is that K doesn't delete "extras" from the version of movie they sell if it exists. Can you cite an example where it does? I'd be interested to learn that as I recall reading that they don't trim content.

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post #99 of 115 Old 02-17-2015, 08:37 AM
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The point that's important is that K doesn't delete "extras" from the version of movie they sell if it exists. Can you cite an example where it does? I'd be interested to learn that as I recall reading that they don't trim content.
There are tons of movies in the K store that should have special features but don't. Just look at all of the movies from NBCUniversal, which was recently added to the store. None of them have special features, even new releases. A few have commentaries but that's it.

I'm really hoping they work with the studios to get all of the special features. Lack of special features is the main reason I haven't gone digital yet.
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post #100 of 115 Old 02-20-2015, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHat View Post
The K- Store is no different from your own disc collection. If I import an early B_R of Aliens I'm not going to get Director's Cut of Aliens extras. If I import/buy the Director's Cut version I will. As many studios release the basic movie initially you can't fault the K-store for not having extras that don't exist in that version.

The point that's important is that K doesn't delete "extras" from the version of movie they sell if it exists. Can you cite an example where it does? I'd be interested to learn that as I recall reading that they don't trim content.

They don't delete extras. Based on my experience, they have them in the download, but don't give you access to them.


Look at how many movies in the K store do not list any special features in their information page. Then go to Blu-ray.com for those same movies and look at the listing/review and see that they have special content on the disc.


Then look at the download size for the K movies. They are upper-30GB to upper-40GB. That's the size of a full disc Blu-ray rip. I know this because I have lots of first-hand experience setting up DIY media servers.


I have checked a number of discs/movies directly. The size of the disc rip image is generally slightly smaller than the download size of the K store listing, yet the BD has all of the other content, such as trailers, features, and so on, while the K store gives only the movie.


The reason for this is unknown. It could be licensing rights holding them back from indexing and presenting that material. It could be resources at K not having bandwidth to fully index all the store content. Either way, it's disappointing and inaccurate to claim that K gives you the same experience as the Blu-ray. It gives you the same quality as Blu-ray for the main movie (which is still a great unique value in movie downloads versus other services), but Warner seems to be only studio consistently providing access to the full disc content.


I've been watching K closely for a while and was seriously considering them with the Alto, but for me, they need to better address the lack of content in the store (i.e. get more studios) and the gimped content (i.e. get the special features exposed).
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post #101 of 115 Old 02-20-2015, 07:53 AM
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Good scoop. Thanks.
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post #102 of 115 Old 02-27-2015, 06:46 AM
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Mark

I received this today and pretty happy with the unit.

Little things like allowing me to type my email during validation process than use clumsy arrows to input my email address made a great experience.

I am looking forward to the new vault that can work with Alto, as well as extra hard disk that is in the works.

I will still keep my Oppo 105D to play SACD and regular CD's.

Cheers

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post #103 of 115 Old 02-27-2015, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
They don't delete extras. Based on my experience, they have them in the download, but don't give you access to them.


Look at how many movies in the K store do not list any special features in their information page. Then go to Blu-ray.com for those same movies and look at the listing/review and see that they have special content on the disc.


Then look at the download size for the K movies. They are upper-30GB to upper-40GB. That's the size of a full disc Blu-ray rip. I know this because I have lots of first-hand experience setting up DIY media servers.


I have checked a number of discs/movies directly. The size of the disc rip image is generally slightly smaller than the download size of the K store listing, yet the BD has all of the other content, such as trailers, features, and so on, while the K store gives only the movie.


The reason for this is unknown. It could be licensing rights holding them back from indexing and presenting that material. It could be resources at K not having bandwidth to fully index all the store content. Either way, it's disappointing and inaccurate to claim that K gives you the same experience as the Blu-ray. It gives you the same quality as Blu-ray for the main movie (which is still a great unique value in movie downloads versus other services), but Warner seems to be only studio consistently providing access to the full disc content.


I've been watching K closely for a while and was seriously considering them with the Alto, but for me, they need to better address the lack of content in the store (i.e. get more studios) and the gimped content (i.e. get the special features exposed).
Nice report. I personally don't give a rip on extra's on any of my many dvd's/bluray's. 3D content is a must if I buy a alto. I'll wait!
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post #104 of 115 Old 03-08-2015, 10:34 AM
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Now that we have Owners, an Owners Thread has been started.

*Official Kaleidescape Alto Owners Thread

*note AVS plans to create a better category for devices like this, but for now it was a best fit for this category.
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post #105 of 115 Old 04-22-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BigHat View Post
In July of 2013 there were 14,000 K customers. Of course they were for the much more expensive ($30K and up for a 3U server with 8 3TB drives and an M700 vault/player). I'm sure these bargain systems have boosted the user base quite a lot.
Yes probably but not to where the new CEO wants to take it: Srinivasan wants to go broader, aiming this time for a sub-$1,000 solution by 2016.

“Our aim,” he tells Essential Install, “is to reposition the company and make the Kaleidescape experience available to as many people as possible.”
Srinivasan doesn’t specify how the company will get to the price point, only that the new product could be “a disc-based system or in the cloud.”
Kaleidescape isn’t even thinking about competing with the likes of Google Play, according to Srinivasan: “We will always be at the quality end of the market and be a custom install product, but we can definitely get much bigger and gain a much wider audience and that is our aim.”

Planning for 4K Ultra HD
: Srinivasan acknowledges the excitement around 4K Ultra HD but says Kaleidescape has held off supporting the format because “for us to be involved, the quality of the content has to be there.” He adds that Kaleidescape is “already working with studios to make sure we have access to those high-quality 4K titles when they come. … We are using our relationships with the content creators to make sure we will be involved. We aim to have a 4K player from Kaleidescape in 2015 and we will have attractive upgrade paths for our customers.”
Srinivasan says Kaleidescape will begin its 4K foray with digital downloads, and then add streaming and disc-based support.

“We will go where the best quality content can be delivered,” he says. “Customers should not be in a position where they have to worry about the format. All they should have to worry about is: what do I like and how do I get more of it? It’s our job to deliver that experience.”

SO 2016 is around the corner let's see if he can deliver on his promises!!


Does the Alto have these problems:

"Even if you’ve already imported a BD movie to the server’s hard drive, the system requires that you insert the original disc into the Cinema One’s slot to prove that you own the disc before you can watch the movie. (There are no similarly imposed restrictions on DVDs or CDs.) Unfortunately, as the onscreen notice tells you, “Recognizing an inserted disc takes several seconds.” It’s not Kaleidescape’s fault, nor is it some sort of engineering flaw. Kaleidescape is admirably attempting to stay within the law. Unfortunately, having to insert your BDs into the Cinema One each time is like spending four grand on a pony for your daughter and then telling her she can’t ride it on sunny days.
You can avoid this by buying bit-identical BD (and DVD) versions of movies from the Kaleidescape Store and downloading them straight to the Cinema One. With some movies, if you already own the DVD, you can download the HD version for $5.99. Once you’ve done that, the Cinema One knows you own the movie, so there’s no disc (literally!) to load into the player. You can also do a $1.99 upgrade from a Blu-ray Disc you own to an HD download, which similarly eliminates the physical disc."
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post #106 of 115 Old 04-22-2015, 02:35 PM
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Does the Alto have these problems:

"Even if you’ve already imported a BD movie to the server’s hard drive, the system requires that you insert the original disc into the Cinema One’s slot to prove that you own the disc before you can watch the movie. (There are no similarly imposed restrictions on DVDs or CDs.) Unfortunately, as the onscreen notice tells you, “Recognizing an inserted disc takes several seconds.” It’s not Kaleidescape’s fault, nor is it some sort of engineering flaw. Kaleidescape is admirably attempting to stay within the law. Unfortunately, having to insert your BDs into the Cinema One each time is like spending four grand on a pony for your daughter and then telling her she can’t ride it on sunny days.
You can avoid this by buying bit-identical BD (and DVD) versions of movies from the Kaleidescape Store and downloading them straight to the Cinema One. With some movies, if you already own the DVD, you can download the HD version for $5.99. Once you’ve done that, the Cinema One knows you own the movie, so there’s no disc (literally!) to load into the player. You can also do a $1.99 upgrade from a Blu-ray Disc you own to an HD download, which similarly eliminates the physical disc."
The Alto does not allow you to import BD's directly. Only the Cinema One and Premier line allow you to import the movie directly from the disc and, in both cases, you do still need the disc in the player/vault in order to authorize playback. With the Alto, you have the following options...

1) Play the movie directly from disc. Just like any standard Blu-Ray player, you can always play a movie directly from disc. Unlike your typical Blu-Ray player, the Alto is able to skip all previews and jump right to the main feature, regardless of whether or not the Blu-Ray was authored with that capability. Also, the Alto has the capability to catalog each and every Blu-Ray disc you put in it. What this means is that it will add an entry into it's database, indicating that the movie is part of your library. It can download the metadata for that Blu-Ray from K-scape or you can edit it yourself. So, even if you don't buy the title from K-scape, redeem it from UV, or pay the reduced disc-to-digital price, the title will still show up in your library, even if the disc is no longer in their player. This way you can still take advantage of the browse an search features when trying to figure out what movie you want to watch. If you select a movie for playback that you have catalogued from disc then you will be prompted to insert the disc.

2) If you have the movie on physical disc and the movie is available in the K-scape Store then you have the option to pay the reduced disc-to-digital price for the movie. If you choose to do so then you will then need to download the movie from the K-scape store in order to play it without needing the disc in the player/vault. In the meantime, you can still play it directly from disc. If the movie is not available in the K-scape Store then see option #1 (above).

3) If you have redeemed a digital copy of said movie or purchased it from another UV retailer (e.g. Vudu, Flixster, CinemaNow, etc.) and it is available in the K-scape Store then, once you link your K-scape account to your UV account, those titles should automatically show up as "Owned". You can then download the movie and watch it at your convenience. If the movie is not available from the K-scape store then you would have to play it back directly from disc, if you have it (see option #1 , above) or use a different device to play the movie back from the other UV retail partner.

4) If you don't have the movie on disc and have never purchased or redeemed a digital copy of it from another UV retail partner, but the movie is available in the K-scape Store then you can, of coarse, buy it from the K-scape Store and then download and play it at your convenience.

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post #107 of 115 Old 05-20-2015, 12:29 PM
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K added Disney content today, but in a fairly terrible manner. No DMA account linking, limited movie selection, very few items with special features. Argh.
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post #108 of 115 Old 05-20-2015, 01:17 PM
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this thread is hilarious...

But seriously, who doesn't want a blu-ray player that will skip the previews and other junk and take you straight to the menu screen. I wish all blu-ray players had this option.
Me to but the studios mandate it!
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post #109 of 115 Old 05-20-2015, 01:21 PM
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K added Disney content today, but in a fairly terrible manner. No DMA account linking, limited movie selection, very few items with special features. Argh.
I realize that the lack of DMA support means that you won't have Disney movies that were purchased/redeemed via. iTunes automatically added to your K-scape library. However, if you originally purchased/redeemed the title from Vudu, shouldn't that get you the UV license for the movie? And, so long as the same title is available from the K-scape Store, shouldn't the fact that K-scape honors UV licenses, regardless of where you bought them, mean that your purchase from Vudu gets you the same movie from K-scape for free? Or, did they use different SKU's for the K-scape versions just to prevent this?
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post #110 of 115 Old 05-20-2015, 02:06 PM
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I realize that the lack of DMA support means that you won't have Disney movies that were purchased/redeemed via. iTunes automatically added to your K-scape library. However, if you originally purchased/redeemed the title from Vudu, shouldn't that get you the UV license for the movie? And, so long as the same title is available from the K-scape Store, shouldn't the fact that K-scape honors UV licenses, regardless of where you bought them, mean that your purchase from Vudu gets you the same movie from K-scape for free? Or, did they use different SKU's for the K-scape versions just to prevent this?
I don't think KScape dictates this. This is what is forced by Disney.

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post #111 of 115 Old 05-20-2015, 05:29 PM
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The email from K stated there's around 100 titles in the store now but will add more (700 total) over the next few weeks. It's not really expanding on digital rights yet.
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post #112 of 115 Old 05-21-2015, 06:23 AM
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However, if you originally purchased/redeemed the title from Vudu, shouldn't that get you the UV license for the movie?
No, when you purchase Disney movies from Vudu (or iTunes or Google Play), they only link to your Disney Movies Anywhere account. Disney is not a member of UltraViolet and they are completely separate services. Kaleidescape would have to support DMA in order for customers to bring over existing DMA purchases.
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post #113 of 115 Old 05-21-2015, 08:31 AM
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No, when you purchase Disney movies from Vudu (or iTunes or Google Play), they only link to your Disney Movies Anywhere account. Disney is not a member of UltraViolet and they are completely separate services. Kaleidescape would have to support DMA in order for customers to bring over existing DMA purchases.
Interesting. Before DMA even existed, you could purchase/redeem Disney movies from both iTunes and Vudu. So, has the licensing changed now that DMA exists? Or, has Disney always provided different SKU's to each provider it signs a licensing agreement with, so that your purchase was/is only good with that particular retailer, unless the retailers in question all participate in the DMA program? Note: I realize that iTunes, Amazon, and Google Play have always been (and continue to be) completely separate from the UV retailers (Vudu, Flixster, CinemaNow, Target Ticket, Kaleidescape, etc.) and that purchases from any of the non-UV retailers would not be honored by any other retailer. What it sounds like you are saying is that, because Disney is not a UV member, UV retailers can't even honor Disney movie purchases from other UV retailers?
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post #114 of 115 Old 05-21-2015, 11:40 AM
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DMA and UV are similar services in concept, but completely different platforms/lockers of content. They don't overlap. They have nothing to do with each other.

When you redeemed those old codes, you got a movie in iTunes only. DMA is Disney's digital locker. You own the movie rights in DMA and you can exercise those rights currently in iTunes, VUDU, or google play.

The preferable thing would have been for K to join DMA just like they are part of UV. Instead, Disney purchases on K are siloed in K like they were before. And anything you own already in DMA will not allow access to that content in K. You have to rebuy digitally from K. DMA and UV should be steps forward. This level of content support is a step backward.
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post #115 of 115 Old 06-17-2017, 09:30 AM
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I love having the Kaleidscape Encore (https://www.kaleidescape.com/products/encore/) and love the aspect that I don't have to use discs.
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