Same day release movies in our own theaters - will it happen? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The last movie I saw in a theater was Transformers. The presentation sucked:
1) Out of focus on one side
2) Running lights too bright - washed out image
3) Right side/rear channel sound completely out
4) Remaining speakers overdriven - painful to listen to
4) Noisy kids
5) 6) 7) 8) ....
1000000) You want me to go on? - my list would fill Alan's servers!

So, why can't I watch a movie in my awesome home theater on the same day it's released to the crappy multiplex theaters? I assume:
1) It's already in a video format
2) A secure delivery system is already available - PPV via Sat/Cable
I would demand that the signal be presented with full HD bandwidth.
Price? $25 sounds reasonable for all parties.

What's preventing this from happening? The theater owners of course. But Hollywood is always looking for new revenue streams, and although the market for same day release availibility for home markets might always remain small, it would be thick icing on the bottom line cake.

What do you think?

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post #2 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 07:54 AM
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I'm confident it will. Some information floating that it will be this year. It won't be cheap initially.

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post #3 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:13 AM
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I hope so..


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post #4 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Could Hollywood use the current PPV model - partner with Comcast/Verizon/etc and HBO (HBO PPV Premieres maybe), or would it make sense to create a separate delivery system? I know that a number of studios are looking to form a new subscription movie channel:
Quote:


WSJ: Cable and satellite-TV operators gave an icy reception to plans by three movie companies for the launch of a new pay-television channel next year, indicating that the new channel may have a tough time angling its way into homes.

Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc. and Lions Gate Entertainment Corp. Sunday announced plans to start their own premium TV channel, in hopes of reaping monthly subscriber fees. The move came instead of renewing their lucrative movie-supply deals with CBS Corp.'s Showtime Networks, after Showtime proposed cutting the fees it currently pays the studios.


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post #5 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:26 AM
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if they use the current PPV model, keep in mind you cannot save the recorded movie for longer than 24 hours once first viewed (DirecTV just announced this) unless you archive it to another platform
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post #6 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:37 AM
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I'm aware of at least one provider currently trying to do a "Premiere" deal with studios. The figure that was thrown about was $49.99 ppv, one time view. No idea of any further developments.

I personally would love it. It would be a particularly attractive option with a large dedicated HT........Kudos Maximus

If you have the contacts in the DCI world, and the equipment, its already possible.

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post #7 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, I assume that the "view once flag" would be used. You watch it real time - no saving. I assume that you could buffer for some length of time (not sure about this) if you have a PVR and need a bathroom break.

No way would Hollywood allow us to archive a first run movie.

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post #8 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:48 AM
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Yes, first run opening day content with DCI capable projection systems is coming this year.This would include full bit depth color unlike BD.



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post #9 of 66 Old 04-22-2008, 08:57 AM
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For some reason it didnt happen, but i do remember this from last year:


UberPulse has learned that, for the first time in Hollywood's history, a local studio, namely Paramount, will release next month's live-action Transformers movie, on cable pay-per-view, the same day it premiere's in US theatres, on July 3rd. But don't hold your breath... the price tag for that special night might deter more than one: $49!


At this price, it makes sense to watch a blockbuster at home instead of going to the theatres, only if you have a really nice home theatre system and invite lots of family and friends. And that's exactly how Hollywood is trying to convince the theatres: that those people, who owns such home theatre systems, are not going to the cinemas anyway.

We have also learned that movie theatres are very reluctant to release that content as they have the right on it for the first six months it is released a.k.a the first window of exclusivity... But the writing is on the wall. So expect more experiments like this one, more often... cheaper... until the death of theatres
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post #10 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 03:52 AM
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some day yes but not soon.

for sure not this year and my guess is also not next year.

i know that here are some very optimistic poster and reader but it will be the same
story like laser pr.

most of us me include not like to read what i post here now and i hope
i was wrong but again i not see it that soon.
i know some vips from the studios and i talk about that sice long time with
them about that issue.
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post #11 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metric View Post

At this price, it makes sense to watch a blockbuster at home instead of going to the theatres, only if you have a really nice home theatre system and invite lots of family and friends. And that's exactly how Hollywood is trying to convince the theatres: that those people, who owns such home theatre systems, are not going to the cinemas anyway.

My point exactly!
Even DC's showcase theater - the once glorious Uptown - lacks in presentation quality nowadays. We passionate movie lovers will no longer fork over $10 for a miserable experience. Let me enjoy a first run movie in the best theater around - my own!

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post #12 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 08:12 AM
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First run availability in a consumer format would be too large a market and theater owners would block it. The only possibility would be DC or a DC lite format that would have a market large enough to interest the studios, but not so large to upset the theater owners. In any case, actual DC content during the theatrical release would cost at least $10,000 for limited viewing. Delayed release at the same time as the consumer formats would be much less, but still in the $1000 range for limited viewing. This would be for major studio releases. Indies and foreign films would be less. The main problem is that the potential market for DC content is too small because of the cost of the projector required.
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post #13 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odyssey View Post

First run availability in a consumer format would be too large a market and theater owners would block it. The only possibility would be DC or a DC lite format that would have a market large enough to interest the studios, but not so large to upset the theater owners. In any case, actual DC content during the theatrical release would cost at least $10,000 for limited viewing. Delayed release at the same time as the consumer formats would be much less, but still in the $1000 range for limited viewing. This would be for major studio releases. Indies and foreign films would be less. The main problem is that the potential market for DC content is too small because of the cost of the projector required.

Interesting,without discussing the source, I'm hearing a little different story as far as pricing on the film itself.

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post #14 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Interesting,without discussing the source, I'm hearing a little different story as far as pricing on the film itself.

Art

Very different indeed.

Film has similar pricing anomalies, but not for same day.

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post #15 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 11:40 AM
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$49 sounds too cheap to me.

Assuming there are 100,000 movie-worthy home theaters in the U.S. and a 10% participation rate (too high) any pricetag less than $100 would net the studios less than a $1M a week.
Too low of a sum to even consider doing.

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


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post #16 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrikos View Post

$49 sounds too cheap to me.

Assuming there are 100,000 movie-worthy home theaters in the U.S. and a 10% participation rate (too high) any pricetag less than $100 would net the studios less than a $1M a week.
Too low of a sum to even consider doing.

I think you grossly underestimate the potential catchment figures. "movie-worthy" has utterly nothing to do with it. Weather an individual will pay is all that matters, there will be plenty of people who would pay to watch on their plasmas etc. Customer testing in the U.K. showed the idea of £25, to be attractive for same day release.

Your statement that the price is too low to "even consider" is factually incorrect ,as I stated in a post above. I know that the possibility has been discussed extensively in the U.S., Canada and the U.K. The main issue is security and piracy protection not audience numbers, thats a fact. I don't see it as directly competing with theaters as much as a new business model and revenue stream.

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post #17 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 12:26 PM
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While not quite the same thing, Hollywood doesn't seem to have much issue with a pay-per-view system with theatrically running films. I've been in several hotels that have films still playing in theaters available for pay-per-view in room. How would this be much different than that? Even if they delayed the release to the home market by a week I'm sure there would be plenty of interest depending on the delivery system and price to view. I'd be more than happy to pay a modest price for a one time viewing if the quality of the presentation was up to snuff. For my wife and I to catch a matinee right now and just have a drink and share a small popcorn is in the mid-$30's. So $50 isn't unreasonable, especially if you have friends over to help absorb the price.

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post #18 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

While not quite the same thing, Hollywood doesn't seem to have much issue with a pay-per-view system with theatrically running films. I've been in several hotels that have films still playing in theaters available for pay-per-view in room. How would this be much different than that? Even if they delayed the release to the home market by a week I'm sure there would be plenty of interest depending on the delivery system and price to view. I'd be more than happy to pay a modest price for a one time viewing if the quality of the presentation was up to snuff. For my wife and I to catch a matinee right now and just have a drink and share a small popcorn is in the mid-$30's. So $50 isn't unreasonable, especially if you have friends over to help absorb the price.

Thats the model under discussion in the 3 countries I mentioned. The only difference being that its same day thats being discussed.

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post #19 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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OK - maybe same day would be unrealistic. I can wait a week
It would have to be no more that the typical premium PPV ($49 seems to be the max for sports events). I think it would be a terrific revenue stream for Hollywood. As for the crappy movie house chains, frankly, 90% of them could go belly up and close for all I care.

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post #20 of 66 Old 04-23-2008, 04:32 PM
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Day and Date releases. Mark Cuban and Steven Soderburgh (sp) were involved in attempting this last year. some movie where there is a doll factory in town and somebody gets killed i seem to recall. bubble it was called.

THe point was exactly what you are tlaking about here. cubans angle was to make it an HDnet PPV. not sure of pricing.

I think that their thinking was along the lines of "lots of movies that you might now otherwise see would be very popular if you could get it at home.

http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search

lots on both sides

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post #21 of 66 Old 04-24-2008, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's an angle for Hollywood to consider: movies that are by nature adult in theme and scope - think Charlie Wilson's War - would benefit from D/D release. Why? Becuase the adults that this movie appeals to are frankly 'over' the movie house experience. BTW, CWW bombed at the box office, but I bet will be a huge DVD seller.

Sure, mindless, testosterone-charged blockbusters can have their $120 mil weekend release, because their teenaged audience loves the group experience that one can get in a mall theater. And the theater owners will love the filled seats, if only for a weekend or two, to sell their lousy overpriced popcorn. I can wait a month for these titles.

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post #22 of 66 Old 04-24-2008, 02:18 PM
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I believe there is a market for that at premium prices if the quality is there.

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post #23 of 66 Old 04-24-2008, 03:45 PM
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quality = deep color?

Would that do it for you Art?

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


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post #24 of 66 Old 04-24-2008, 07:45 PM
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Certainly deeper bit depth would be a plus compared to what we see with BD. Realistically, there are only a hand full here and there of new releases which would be worth it to me. None the less,it is exciting.

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post #25 of 66 Old 04-24-2008, 11:44 PM
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The business model of movies is primarily based on the box office collection. This was the case for decades. DVD and blu-ray is a secondary source of income. I do not think studios will even think of touching this bread and butter model by releasing the movies on the disk that could impact on the box office collection. They will keep the disk to milk the market for the second time. PPV is different to the disk and closely aligns with the existing model, i.e. PPV in the cinemas.
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post #26 of 66 Old 04-25-2008, 12:08 AM
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if you look at the link i sent, one of the articles talks about how the chains consider day and date release to be a declaration of war.

The reality at the end of the day is that people with true theatres at home who can do better than a theatre experience are so few as to not be a viable market. So the theatre folks assume that day and date release means folks watching MI9 on their 42 inch plasma.

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post #27 of 66 Old 04-25-2008, 12:34 AM
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Movies like Bubble are no match for Hollywood grand productions with multi million dollar budgets. Direct-to-disk could be the way forward for small productions if they cannot attract studios/theaters and also TV networks.
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post #28 of 66 Old 05-27-2008, 06:31 PM
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I think this content is a kind of "holy grail" for home cinema owners. While it's true that there may not be a huge number of dedicated rooms like many here have, I think there are really just as many folks with 42" plasmas in the living room who would pay for same day releases. If the studios think they can make money with this then it WILL happen. I don't believe it will put much of a dent in commercial theaters' business. I would pay a premium right now for the ability to watch the new Indiana Jones in my own theater. What would that premium be? I think $50 would be acceptable but I would pay up to $100, as long as we are talking same day release. I think price would have to depend on the title. Like I said, I'd pay $100 to "rent" the new Indy but I wouldn't pay that much for Sex in the City. Who knows where this will go but I am eager to see how it all pans out.
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post #29 of 66 Old 05-28-2008, 12:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Certainly deeper bit depth would be a plus compared to what we see with BD. Realistically, there are only a hand full here and there of new releases which would be worth it to me. None the less,it is exciting.

Art

What delivery method are you anticipating here, Art- as I'm continually un-impressed with cable/sat HD (PPV or not) as a quality source. Just confused and curious...
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post #30 of 66 Old 05-28-2008, 12:21 PM
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I just see way too many issues with this to become reality.

Let's say it costs (only) $100 to "rent" the movie on opening night, delivered via fiber overnight and remotely unlocked for a specific period of time (24hrs?) only to be played once via a DCI server on a DCI projector (Mega $$$ Hi End HT of course). Each copy can have a encrypted S/N that can be traced back to the HT owner if it is stolen or copied. A nice sum as deposit would also be a good insurance play.

What's to stop the owner of the HT from charging 20-30 people $20 a piece to show the movie to them?

How do you think Hollywood and movie theater operators will react to that?

Or, even take the best case scenario where the HT owner invites 20-30 people over to watch the movie for free.

Do you think that will go over well?
I didn't think so...

Now if the rental fee was $1,000, I can see Hollywood turning a blind eye to it.
But the theater owners will still be miffed.

A non-starter if you ask me.
PS Funnily enough, at $1,000 a pop, I see a much bigger chance of it succeeding than at $100 a pop. But the theater chains would have to get a cut of that in order to proceed.
Imagine all the global multimillionaires showing off their HT on opening day and the price of admission is only $1,000? A surefire success if you ask me. There's TONS of new money all over the globe, it's not just America anymore...
PPS Yeah, even "little" players like Art can participate...

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


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