Barco Cinema Projektor DP 2000 with 4000 Watt Xenon Lamp at Home - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 289 Old 05-01-2008, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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after i am "almost sure" that i can find a way to feed my 3d pictures
2048x1080 with one computer via one dvi out
to the barco dp 2000 and this pr. can display it at full resulution
in 144 hz flicker free (2x72 hz per eye)
i order this unit.

i had in the past 2 christie hd6k 3 chip dlp pr. 1920x1080 with 1000 watt xenon
and i like this pr. a lot.
no pr. that i have during the last good 1 year at my home can match the
picture quality this christie pr. had.

i use 2 because i do 3d with a 3m wide silver screen with passive polarizer.

it works fine but it need always much time and adjustments to switch between
2d for films at the big 7m 2.35 screen and 3d at the small 3m silver screen.

my goal was to do 2d films AND 3d pictures at the same big 7m screen (harkness hall matt preview gain 1.0)
with only one pr.in shutter for 3d.

i saw some 2x 60 hz 3d but i can see some flicker so the only way was to
buy a cinema unit that can runn in 144 hz flicker free.

there was only two projektors at the moment that can do that
at the full resolution 2048x1080 in 144 hz.

the barco dp 1500 and the barco dp 2000.

both units are identical more or less.
the 1500 can take lamps till to 3000 watt the dp 2000 till 4000 watt.
both using the new 0,98" cinema chips 2048x1080 with dc4.

there is a lot of work for the pre instalation as you can see in the first pictures.

new much stronger power supply is need havy intake air strong filtered to protect the unit from dust
and exhaust air all that the christie pr. all not need.

how it perform against the christie hd 6k
is cinema prozessing really better?
did i can do 3d as i hope?
what problem the pr. have?

that all later.





















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post #2 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 04:32 AM
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W.Mayer
1 Can the DP3000 also display at 144Hz?
2 Is the DP3000 also using dmds that use the DC4 process or are they older and still only DC3?

Do you have any interest in moving 3D pictures or are you primarily interested in 3D still photography? I sometimes ask myself what I would prefer a 2D moving pictures presentation with good depth or a 3D moving pictures presentation.

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post #3 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 04:45 AM
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Wow ! Thanks for the update Wolfgang. I love your projects and obviously you are taking no chances with that lamp.


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post #4 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 05:49 AM
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I thought the same, now W.Mayer can get a tan on a raindy day.

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post #5 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Ohlson;13777218]W.Mayer
1 Can the DP3000 also display at 144Hz?
2 Is the DP3000 also using dmds that use the DC4 process or are they older and still only DC3?

1 yes it can but as i post already not a full resolution 2048x1080
max. was
1628 x 880 flat
1920 x 804 cs

2 the use the old dc3 chips 1,2" and electronics.
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post #6 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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how it perform against the christie hd 6k?

i use the christie hd6k with a isco3 optic in front and that kill the ansi
cr. as i have post since long time.

but for the test christie hd 6k vs barco cinema dp 2000 it was no problem
because i runn the hd6k without the isco3 lens.

here are some numbers that both pr. have

christie hd6k

6800 centerlumen at 150 hours no iris
at normaly color 6300 centerlumen at d 65
cr. on off 2650:1 iris closed at 9 for normaly
color about 2440:1 at d 65
open the iris will decrease cr. to
2300:1 at normaly color and
2150:1 at d 65
ansi cr. 650:1 at normaly color



barco dp 2000

17200 centerlumen for 1920x1080
18370 centerlumen for 2048x1080
lamp on 50 hours(lost about 8% so the unit have new almost
20000 centerlumens)
numbers after color calibration
at cinema color
d 65 cost -11% light
2312:1 cinema color
2060:1 d65 color(reduce 11%)
ansi cr. about 750:1 have to measure again






i use a new lumagen radiance scaler and a spatz hdmi splitter to feed
the same signal into the units.
but as the barco have no adjustments at all even not cr. and brighness i need to
make 2 different banks in the lumagen to make it easy to switch between the 2 units.

as i can almost dimm down the barco to the light level the christie offers at max. light out
it was fast clear that
both units make a very good picture and there is not day and night differences
between them.

the most disappointment was to see that when i drive the barco at cinema prozessing that this
NOT reduce the fals contour bug as i hope for and as many people told me.

than the secound shock.
all fine details are filtered out!
so some test pattern show that drop in high freq. very good.
i talk with barco but there are some adjustment deep inside the unit
where you you can switch that filters off.
after i did it it shows the same sharp image with no decrease
in high freq. anymore.

the cr.on off number the barco have is not as good as the christie
can do at iris 9 but i never feel it looks wores.
i think the high ansi cr. make this difference or and the better cinema optics as well.
the barco picture looks a bit more sharp and a littel more 3d like.

i had about 40 ftl on the screen when i did the tests and i never fell
even in dark seq. like casino rojal chapter 5 that i miss some cr.
also it was interesting to see that even with the barco have about 15% more light on the screen
as the christie the cr. visual looks better with the barco!
i dirve the barco in cinema color as i like the bigger color bandwidth
and i use the lumagen do drop the 2.6 gamma that the dp 2000 use when
it works in cinema color.

the color calibration later not change it visible much so the pr. was out of the box
good in color.

in summary i can say that both pr. make a outstanding picture.
if you not count all the problems a cinema unit have see my fist post
and you not count the price i think beside the more lumens this barco have it is
a little bit better mostly thanks to the dc4 chips.

for me as i rate the new barco only as a 2d pr. that show movies its a stepp up for me
as it shows a bit better picture and the lens i use works with the 2.35 format screen without any
isco 3 lens and thats also a improvment.

so all in all its the better pr. for 2d movies but the differences are not that big.

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post #7 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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please note that i not use a cr. improvment as the
dp 1500 from peter have because i need all the light for 3d.

i hope some day they find a way to make it adjustable
and than i will also gain cr. by almost double for 2d films and
still can use the full light for 3d.
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post #8 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 10:36 AM
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W.Mayer
Will you be able to loan and view a D-cinema source in your home? It is always special to view things in your own setup.
I am glad that you are happy with your upgrade. We are looking forward to your reports on 3D performance.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #9 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 11:35 AM
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So if you need the light output for 3D or large screen this is the way to go. Also DCI machines have the color filters allowing for wider color gamut. Im hoping some of this color technology trickles down to consumer level soon.
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post #10 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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3d

as i post already the main reason to buy this new pr.is to
do 2d AND 3d at the same screen with only one projector
instead of 2 pr. and no additional small 3m silver screen.

i was only "almost sure" that i works in 3d like i hope.

so the unit arrive me and some days later i got my pc back from
mr. trautner in austria that modifi this pc to output my
3d pictures at 2048x1080.

he also build the sync box that i need to drive the emitter
that controll and sync the shutter glasses.

for some reason it not works.

i try it 2 days with the help form mr. trautner and than he build a new sync box because we think that
this one is brocken.

but some days later i got a secound one but
even with this new box it not work at all.

i was very frustrated as this was the main reason to buy this pr.




i contact barco than and after some days barco told me that some early units
have a bug at the 37 pin connector.
the connect it inside mirrored so the pin are not right connectet.

i change this and from that time on it works in 3d perfect.

than some days later a other bad news.

i must discover that my calculation about lumens in 3d per eye are wrong.

i not count that if you do 3d aktiv with one pr. than you measure on the screen
(the left and right one the same time on the screen see this picture)
both pictures left and right at the same time and that doubles the light output.
when the shutter is in between the picture you see ONLY ether left OR right so
to make it easy to understand
"i have half light on the screen as i original count".

my mistake but as i already ordert the unit that have the highest lumen out
i cant do anything about it.

so now depends on the screen size i use in 3d 5,3m wide is max. because of my 2.35 format screen
or min. 4,98m(that is the smallest picture my optic can do)
and depens on what shutter i use(i have both the nuvision and the cristaleye)
i can get between 12.6 ftl to 17.5 ftl in 3d to the eye net with a new lamp.
that is compare to cinemas where you have in 3d between 3.5-4.5 ftl a lot but
not as bright as i original thought.

as i work with the unit now sice some days i begin to appreciate
how nice it was to have one pr. for 2d and 3d at only one screen.
reason is also that all adjustments(size lamp output focus location horz. and vert.and all the rest)
can be stored as a macro and just one push brings me from 2d in 7m 2.35 format to
3d at 5.3m at 1.89:1
very very nice.
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post #11 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

W.Mayer
Will you be able to loan and view a D-cinema source in your home? It is always special to view things in your own setup.
I am glad that you are happy with your upgrade. We are looking forward to your reports on 3D performance.

just done.

yes i will get a cinema server that can playback 2d and 3d content.
i also will get some demo material in 2d and 3d and hope for a solution
to get real content
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post #12 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 03:12 PM
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I just love this. Forty fL on a screen greater than 20' wide. This is the epitome of not ****ing around !


Could you just for fun post a pic of you and a familiar BD or HDDVD up there ?

Art

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post #13 of 289 Old 05-02-2008, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post


Could you just for fun post a pic of you and a familiar BD or HDDVD up there ?

Art

I second that..something in scope via the new Barco
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post #14 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 02:21 AM - Thread Starter
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art

what you mean by forty?

3d i can get till to 17 ftl on 5.3m but 2d i can go to above 60 ftl on the 7m screen without the isco3 lens

what picture you like to see?
a high resolution one with a bd payed AND ME in front of the 7m screen?
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post #15 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
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cr. on off improvment.

its some how sad that i not can order the cr. improvment with the
apature plate as the dp 1500 from peter have because
i need all the light for 3d and this tool it till today not
adjustable its fix inside or not.


my hope was that a apature plate at the openig of the lamp house
will do similar things but to keep it short it not works.

i found only one shape that is not on the picture(cat eye shape) that increase the cr. on ff by arround 18.5% but that costs 43% light.
that is not very efficient as when you have such a plate in the light engine
it costs about the same light drop but it gain cr.about 80%!!!

now i have hope that the company that do the cr. improvment will find
a way to make it adustable from outside.

some day this feature will be for sure inside some pr. may also
prof. high lumen projectors.







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post #16 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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problems:

the pr.have some problems when it arrives as most other pr. as well.

convergenz was not good the tuch screen have a bug and the thing about
the 37 pin connector are not nice.

all that are solved by barco very nicely and fast.
i got a new tuch screen that works so far now without any problem.
i get a 37 pin adapter that corrects the bug and the convergenze was
after the adjustments very good.

summary:

this pr. is not a normaly home cinema pr.
it demands a lot of special ambient conditions and its not designt to runn in a normaly home cinema room.
it need at least a seperate pr. room.

but as the home cinema screen gets bigger and bigger and at the same time
more and more people like to have above 25 ftl on there screen or more
there is a market for such pr. in home cinemas.

for most user that are not do 3d the should order the unit WITH the cr. improvment as it almost double the on off cr.

there is no need for the dp2000 because the
dp 1500 can take till 3000 watt xenon lamps and they should give
you 12000 lumen without cr. mod. and about 6500-7000 lumen with it.


if you have or plan a big screen over 4m wide and you like it bright
the dp 1500 with the cr. modification that give you arround 4000-7000 lumen
(depends on the lamp you put inside)
at 4000:1 cr.is the pr. for you and i think that is at the moment the best pr.
for such a set up.
this pr. can be the ultimativ solution.

end
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Perhaps this can serve as your future cr modification that also is variable. Note the reference to digital cinema.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023461

Mattias Ohlson
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post #18 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

art

what you mean by forty?

3d i can get till to 17 ftl on 5.3m but 2d i can go to above 60 ftl on the 7m screen without the isco3 lens

what picture you like to see?
a high resolution one with a bd payed AND ME in front of the 7m screen?


I thought I read some place where you said it had 40fL with the provided aperture plate.

Yes, you with a familiar scene of some scope scene and in HD.

Art

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post #19 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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hi art

yes i made the test barco vs christie at about 40 ftl but
if i like i can now go to over 60 ftl for 2d at the 7m screen.

for the pictures i do "ONLY FOR YOU" i use this 64ftl

as the avs picture quality here is limited i send you a 13 mil pixel picture
with pm.

ALAN IN THIS HIGH END SECTION YOU SHOUD ALLOW 1920X1080
OR BETTER 2048X1080
BECAUSE THAT IS THE CINEMA STANDART

its may interesting to take a look at the last 2 pictures.
both show the same image at 7m but only the camera position was
different.
the last one looks much bigger as the one before or?











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post #20 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 04:21 PM
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Wow!

I LOVE MOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

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post #21 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 04:44 PM
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Wow!

I second that. Very impressive.
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post #22 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 05:43 PM
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Now THAT is Home Theater!
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post #23 of 289 Old 05-03-2008, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post


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mmmm that tastes good on my eyes.
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post #25 of 289 Old 05-04-2008, 05:06 AM
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Very impressive indeed! As Art so eloquently put it, there's no F&*#ing around.

( B ) ( G ) ( R ) BlendZilla DownUnder ( R ) ( G ) ( B ) - Tubes of Fury
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Serious shrinkage going on over here in the US. Thanks Wolfgang !

Art

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"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

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post #27 of 289 Old 05-04-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post



Wolfgang : There is a uniform missing at your local landesfeuerwehr.

You are a Showman!!!

Nicht schlecht on the end result, congratulations.

Well I guess this validates me with all the naysayers at the forum that insist there are other better ways. You have confirmed there are none, the Barco is the king of projectors.

You have not commented on the color accuracy though??
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post #28 of 289 Old 05-04-2008, 07:53 AM
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Peter,
You could learn a thing or two from Wolfgang's style. He lets the facts speak for themselves.

Art

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"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

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post #29 of 289 Old 05-04-2008, 08:02 AM
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If size of screen is the requirement I am working on it.
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post #30 of 289 Old 05-04-2008, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Wolfgang : There is a uniform missing at your local landesfeuerwehr.

i need this uniform when i shoot big fireworks but you know how
dangerous such a big lamp can be if its for some reason implode!

may later you not need anymore a pr. and as i already lost my
right ear i take more care about my eyes than before.

Well I guess this validates me with all the naysayers at the forum that insist there are other better ways. You have confirmed there are none, the Barco is the king of projectors.

well this is right as i also not can see any pr. that is today there
that have the same good picture but this can change soon.
wait for infocomm in june you will see there some nice pr.
but may xenon is missing
also it have to take in count how difficult this pr. is to drive with all the
ambient conditions.
so for some that is the wrong pr.beside the price.

i really hope for a adjustable iris that can take the heat from a 4000 watt
xenon lamp without destroy some optical parts as i can go then also
with 4000:1 on off or a little bit more at 35 ftl without the isco3 lens and
that will be even better from what i have today.

You have not commented on the color accuracy though??

in 3d i runn the unit at native colors witch are very close to cinema color
and both different sutter change the color a bit different.
but the end result if you compare it with dolby3d or with polarizer
is the better than all what i saw before.

at 2d i runn at cinema color so far and adjust the lumagen a bit to match
more to d65.
i will look into it later but both pr. the cristie and the barco can have almost the same good color.
i dont can see in color a difference when i did the test.

i hope to test soon a cinema server with some content.
i guess here will be a difference visible for sure.
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