Bel -Air Digital Circuit Upcoming Titles Thread. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 54 Old 05-23-2008, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Movie Distributor Release Plans
Week of May 16 - May 22
The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian Disney Wide
Reprise Miramax Limited

Week of May 23 - May 29
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom Of the Crystal Skull Paramount Wide
The Children of Huang Shi Sony Classics NY/LA
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post #2 of 54 Old 05-25-2008, 06:14 AM
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OK - who do I have to kill to become a member of the "circuit"?
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post #3 of 54 Old 06-02-2008, 12:56 PM
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This is probably a really dumb question but what it the Bel-Air Digital Circuit?
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post #4 of 54 Old 06-02-2008, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 54 Old 06-02-2008, 07:15 PM
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Hey Peter, I invested in a short, independent film last year. That makes me a "producer" I'm ready to take out a second mortgage and sell my first-born so let me know how soon we can make this happen...
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post #6 of 54 Old 06-02-2008, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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according to Ruben it is not that hard once you have the gear to get in with some studios, there are just some studios that are really picky. Start saving.
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post #7 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Week of June 27 -July 3
Wall-E Disney Wide
Wanted Universal Wide

Week of July 4 -July 10
Hancock Sony Wide

Week of July 11 - July 17
Meet Dave 20th Century Wide
Hellboy 2: The Golden Army Universal Wide
Journey to the Center of the Earth 3D Warner Bros. Wide

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post #8 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Week of July 4 -July 10
Hancock Sony Wide

4K?
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post #9 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 07:22 AM
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Wolfgang already made some comparisons between Blu-ray and DCI sources, and found out that the difference for the video is barely noticeable.

As for the audio, you get umcompressed digital (which is good) but output in a format that no consumer (high end or otherwise) processor can use. This means that you are stuck with the analog outputs from the professional audio processors, which are very likely to sound very bad compared to high end consumer processors like the Mark Levinson ones.

In summary, one will get:

- Barely better video. Nothing to fret about.

- Day and date release, which is good.

- Rented movies. Once the provided keys expire, you can't watch them anymore. Very bad.

- Mediocre audio, as bad as in theaters.

No thanks.

Robert
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post #10 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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The audio is 8 x aes ebu UNENCRYPTED at 48khz. The new tact audio has that, just have to wait for it.

In the meantime you could use any dac's. The digital is not encrypted.

I am very pleased with the way Blue ray plays on the Barco, and yes it is going to be difficult to improve upon , but the fact remains that one file is 30 gigabytes and some others are 220 gigabytes, THAT HAS TO BE NOTICEABLE.
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post #11 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I think wolfgang got a bunch of IMAX content. Was any of it DCI general release?
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post #12 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

- Barely better video. Nothing to fret about.

From personal experience, I have to totally disagree.

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post #13 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

one file is 30 gigabytes and some others are 220 gigabytes, THAT HAS TO BE NOTICEABLE.

It is easily noticeable. Back to back, the effect of the data rate was readily apparent to me, color was noticeable too.

Watching a proper Distribution Package without comparison, I was always aware that I was watching better than Blu-ray.

The audio is 24bit but can be 96kHz as well as 48kHz.

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post #14 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 09:03 AM
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A few things you should clearly notice with content. Colors more saturated, an improvement in banding and lack of edge enhancement. As with Film the difference varies depending on the title.
I was surprised to find out all but a few titles are 1080 files. If you have a Digital Cinema
projector the 1920 is scaled to 2048. The scaling is small enough I doubt it causes any artifacts.
I was also surprised and disappointed to see 235:1 titles are just as they are in the home theater arena...letterboxed. The vertical rez is about 800. You have a choice in the server to perform the vertical stretch if you are using a anamorphic lens.
Most Blue Ray players are adding some form of sharpness adding to the ringing. Go with an HD SDI BD player if possible bypassing the internal processing.
Ill take and prefer any form of " better then HD " as it will be the reference that hopefully will give BD the competition needed to keep them on their toes.
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post #15 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

- Barely better video. Nothing to fret about.


You're joking right?
Oh, I've done some tests as well and found that the difference between night and day is barely noticeable as well...

- Stephan
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post #16 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

analog outputs from the professional audio processors, which are very likely to sound very bad compared to high end consumer processors like the Mark Levinson ones.

Again, from direct experience, totally disagree.

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post #17 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

The audio is 8 x aes ebu UNENCRYPTED at 48khz. The new tact audio has that, just have to wait for it.

Until I see some documentation, I'll seriously doubt that a consumer product will support 5.1 management with 3 separate stereo digital inputs.

Besides,TACT is not what I call high end. The products I tested sounded quite mediocre, and the total lack of support is an insult to their customers.

Quote:


In the meantime you could use any dac's. The digital is not encrypted.

And how do you manage volume and speaker delays if you use 3 stereo external DACS?

Robert
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post #18 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

analog outputs from the professional audio processors, which are very likely to sound very bad compared to high end consumer processors like the Mark Levinson ones.

Again, from direct experience, totally disagree.

The uncompressed audio at 48kHz is pristine via balanced analogs

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post #19 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Again, from direct experience, totally disagree.

The uncompressed audio at 48kHz is pristine via balanced analogs

I don't doubt that the digital output is state of the art, but my point is that there is no way to use it aside with at best mediocre analog outputs.

As for direct experience, what audio processor are you using at home which could give you a point of reference?

Robert
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post #20 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

I don't doubt that the digital output is state of the art, but my point is that there is no way to use it aside with at best mediocre analog outputs.

As for direct experience, what audio processor are you using at home which could give you a point of reference?

You seem to have misunderstood, or I wasn't clear. The balanced analogs aren't mediocre at all.

For processing I use an Arcam AV9 and 2 AVR350s. Till recently the AV9 was driving a straight through 7.1 arrangement of Genelec 324As and Dual HTS6s. I think that gives me a good appreciation for genuine world class HT sound.

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post #21 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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The dolby show player has no analog out per se, you need to convert them. I personally have been involved in the design of the 8 channel aes ebu digital in for the Tact.

Dolby makes an outboard dac with analog balanced outs.

In defense of tact their theater correction system is the best sounding multichannel eq implementation I have heard followed by the now aborted Lingdorf.

I believe that the tact tcs mk3 will be an excellent unit once the darned hdmi chips get delivered as advertised. The 8 channel digital in is accomplished by ganging 4 digital inputs. Bass management is applied much in the same way that an analog multichannel.
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post #22 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

You seem to have misunderstood, or I wasn't clear. The balanced analogs aren't mediocre at all.

For processing I use an Arcam AV9 and 2 AVR350s. Till recently the AV9 was driving a straight through 7.1 arrangement of Genelec 324As and Dual HTS6s. I think that gives me a good appreciation for genuine world class HT sound.

Arcam makes excellent products in their class, but they are not ultimate high end.

It's very possible since you say so that the Dolby analog outputs are similar in quality, but I want much better than that.

Besides, outputing analog to the processor involves either lack of processing, or another analog/digital/analog conversion. Again something I don't want.

Robert
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post #23 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

In defense of tact their theater correction system is the best sounding multichannel eq implementation I have heard followed by the now aborted Lingdorf.

I never heard a correction system remotely good sounding. They all kill the music one way or another.

Quote:


I believe that the tact tcs mk3 will be an excellent unit once the darned hdmi chips get delivered as advertised. The 8 channel digital in is accomplished by ganging 4 digital inputs. Bass management is applied much in the same way that an analog multichannel.

If they effetively deliver that, that will make them unique in the market. Thanks for the information.

But unless they made significant progress in the audio domain too, that won't overcome how bad a Tact can sound compared to the best there is currently.

Edit: I could use a Tact system if it was outputting digital directly, assuming they manage a decent volume control in the digital domain, the way Goldmund does with their processor. That would allow to use the DACs in my amps directly, by-passing the Tact ones.

Robert
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post #24 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

Arcam makes excellent products in their class, but they are not ultimate high end.

It's very possible since you say so that the Dolby analog outputs are similar in quality, but I want much better than that.

Now you're just being silly.

Your video comments in your "summary" were shown to be way off, by a number of people with genuine experience. Try to learn from that experience.
I notice you didn't ask any questions on that or even acknowledge it, but just looked for other holes to pick.

The Arcam units are ALWAYS placed top shelf for pure SQ. I auditioned many of the best units available prior to choosing the AV9. None had noticeably better sound, some had more features. Some, including the Levinsons, didn't have the noise floor that was suitable, during silence, for very high SPLs. The Arcams were the only ones that provided total and utter silence. Thats why I chose them.

Peter Moncrieff of WSR said of the 350, just over a year ago.....

"The Arcam AVR350 is easily the best-sounding surround receiver or processor I have ever tested, regardless of price. The AVR350 marks a stunning sonic advance over the already excellent AVR300, and over all other brands of competing units that I have tested, even those costing far more money. The margin of the AVR350’s sonic superiority over other units is dramatic. And the breadth of its sonic superiority is breathtaking, encompassing virtually every important sonic aspect (transparency, clean purity, intertransient silence, spatial imaging, etc.). The AVR350’s trump card is its implementation of Dolby Pro Logic IIx, which substantially cures the sonic weaknesses found in all other surround processors, opening a whole new sonic world for this surround mode that is so widely applicable to both music and soundtracks and is so impressive in creating a believable surround spatial image. And the icing on the cake is the AVR350’s modest price, only a slight premium over the AVR300, for a souped-up hot rod that dusts everyone else in sonic performance."

The AF spectrum, unless I missed something, hasn't changed since then.


Anyway, its not about that, so please move on. Get back OT in what could be an interesting ongoing thread.

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post #25 of 54 Old 07-06-2008, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I hear that the only studio that does not play ball is Disney, they wont release their content to Bel-Air circuit residences. The rest seem to be doing it.
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post #26 of 54 Old 07-08-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

Wolfgang already made some comparisons between Blu-ray and DCI sources, and found out that the difference for the video is barely noticeable.

There should be an appreciable difference at least for the colors (gamut and definition (no subsampling)).
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post #27 of 54 Old 07-08-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
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There should be an appreciable difference at least for the colors (gamut and definition (no subsampling)).

His comment was that the colors were maybe a bit better.

I guess that cinema gamut and 4.4.4 are not that significant when you make a side by side comparison. And that AVC at 30-40 Mbs is extremely close to the master.

Robert
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post #28 of 54 Old 07-12-2008, 02:38 PM
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i have now since about 2 months a dci cinema server and saw some
more content.
sad that the barco is brocken since some weeks.

i saw materail that is very nice and some are very bad.
the most differnce is the clean picture with NO ENHANCEMEN at all.

no sharpness increase at all.

but when you not switch at cinema prozessing the scaling on (that is default on my barco ) you can see also some bugs but if you have it on it decrease the
high freq. a bit.

i have now some sequenzes at bd and dci to compare but as my barco is brocken
since some time i cant do this direct comparision.

but i am sure there is no day and night differences.
i will saying this till i saw material side by side that change my view.

most of the best material i saw was disney material.
seams they take care about this material.
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post #29 of 54 Old 07-12-2008, 03:39 PM
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Wolfgang,
Are you saying that color doesn't look much different to you (DCI content vs BD)

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post #30 of 54 Old 07-12-2008, 04:29 PM
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art

i sad already earlier that color is a bit better and thats the case.
color wise its the same its not day and night but
may other people will rate it different.

may this will discribe it also.

when you have a very very good uhp lamp pr. and i guess you have one
than you need to have this unit side by side to a very good
xenon lamp pr. to see the difference.
thats may how i rate it.
if you have a bad uhp lamp pr. you not need to have both side by side as
the xenon lamp pr. is so much better.

ontill we get "some day" true 4k sourc material that shot from a digital 4k camera
in 4.4.4 color cinema content is the best you can get but its not day and night to
a good blue ray.

and not forgeth you can not change saturation brighness sharpness and all the
other parameters at dci material like you can do easy with consumer sources.
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