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post #1 of 31 Old 02-23-2009, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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New from the New York Times.

Here and Here.

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post #2 of 31 Old 02-23-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

New from the New York Times.

Here and Here.

Interesting. I didn't realize that Sony's hardware was more expensive than T.I.'s but, is this a valid issue since Sony has been apparently "giving away" their projectors lately?

Sean
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post #3 of 31 Old 02-23-2009, 04:32 PM
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Anyone want 4K cheap(er)?

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post #4 of 31 Old 02-23-2009, 11:02 PM
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Well my Cineplex maintenance guy has seen the Sony 4K unit recently demoed at a local theater in the Toronto area. I don't know of the test material they showed but coming from a guy who has been doing projection for 30+ years he saw no real difference from the 4K unit being demoed to the Christie 2k units they have been installing recently around Canada. The only difference he saw was the price to install the suckers in the theaters. This guy i trust as he has worked with or has installed 70mm, 35mm, DLP and IMAX projectors all over Canada

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post #5 of 31 Old 02-23-2009, 11:26 PM
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I think they've got a lot of pull because of Sony/Columbia/tristar entertainment and their links with other production companies. Fox and Disney for example. It gives them a little easier access into the venues than other brands. This will give them more advertising power too. Never liked Sony. Never will.

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post #6 of 31 Old 02-24-2009, 12:59 PM
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Well, yeah... you want to have any Sony/Columbia/Tri-Star movies ever shown in your theater again, then you need to pony up for a 4K SXRD.

And, while you're at it, since we own the content, the only media it will ever by seen on is BluRay...and if we don't own enough of the titles, we'll buy a few more.

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post #7 of 31 Old 02-25-2009, 10:21 AM
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"Always remember your weapon was made by the lowest bidder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Well, yeah... you want to have any Sony/Columbia/Tri-Star movies ever shown in your theater again, then you need to pony up for a 4K SXRD.

And, while you're at it, since we own the content, the only media it will ever by seen on is BluRay...and if we don't own enough of the titles, we'll buy a few more.

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post #8 of 31 Old 02-28-2009, 04:13 PM
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Horrible timing a from company that's bleeding red.

I wouldn't be surprised if they abandoned SXRD all together.

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


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post #9 of 31 Old 03-01-2009, 07:37 PM
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Yeah, SXRD and D-ILA were the two legit competitors to DLP, but it seems like TI won over both Sony and JVC in this one. Let's not start a projector technology format war in this thread, watch yourselves.
I really miss JVC's televisions, tho. They really did put up a good fight back against SXRD with their D-ILA back in the day, I do admit...

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post #10 of 31 Old 03-04-2009, 08:50 AM
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One has to wonder what this means. I've seen one of those and the panel alignment,uniformity and contrast were all way below what I'd want in my home.

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post #11 of 31 Old 03-05-2009, 07:43 AM
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Art S.
I think lasers is the solution to the problems Sony has been fighting in high llght output sxrd. Multi kW xenon sxrd projectors can look good but for stabiity the projector has to run cooler.

What happened to the super high contrast sxrd projector that was rumored for CEDIA? Is Sony waiting to release the technology or are they still developing it?

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post #12 of 31 Old 03-05-2009, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Art S.
I think lasers is the solution to the problems Sony has been fighting in high llght output sxrd. Multi kW xenon sxrd projectors can look good but for stabiity the projector has to run cooler.

What happened to the super high contrast sxrd projector that was rumored for CEDIA? Is Sony waiting to release the technology or are they still developing it?

I don't know but that sale says only two things to me:

1) They are dumping to open up for something really great or new that would make those projectors so obsolete they couldn't give them away once it is introduced.
2) they are getting out of LCoS

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post #13 of 31 Old 03-09-2009, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I don't know but that sale says only two things to me:

1) They are dumping to open up for something really great or new that would make those projectors so obsolete they couldn't give them away once it is introduced.
2) they are getting out of LCoS

Art

Is there any other evidence that they might be dumping SXRD/LCOS?

Is it likely?

If we accept the logic that it might be going down, will it be sold on to a third party?

Rgds. from TR70
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post #14 of 31 Old 03-09-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr70quadruplex View Post

Is there any other evidence that they might be dumping SXRD/LCOS?

Is it likely?

If we accept the logic that it might be going down, will it be sold on to a third party?

Rgds. from TR70

Can you think of any other possibilites for the fire sale?

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post #15 of 31 Old 03-12-2009, 07:35 PM
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I'm going to find out what my local cinema is using in their digital cinemas next week, and I'll post what I find.

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post #16 of 31 Old 03-13-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

I'm going to find out what my local cinema is using in their digital cinemas next week, and I'll post what I find.

If its the AMC at Yonge and Dundas, they use Sony 4k SXRD units.

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post #17 of 31 Old 03-13-2009, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

If its the AMC at Yonge and Dundas, they use Sony 4k SXRD units.

No, Colossus in Woodbridge. They've had digital projectors in two theater rooms for over 4 years.

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post #18 of 31 Old 03-14-2009, 11:04 PM
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I believe the digital projector installation schedule from what i was told at work from one of the technicians installing these DLP's for Cineplex. That you guys are getting another 1 or 2 DLP theaters soon and i believe they were sticking with the Christie 2K DLP. The new thing is that Dolby is getting into the installation business for Cineplex and are a few thousand dollars cheaper then going through Kodak/Christie. I'm in Burlington and stuck between the new Oakville VIP SilverCity and the new Hamilton SilverCity which are all pretty much DLP equipped (give or take 2-3 cinemas) So Cineplex won't install one at mine until they recoup some money for these high tech cinemas they built. We have been measured several times for placement but nothing on his schedule showed us getting anything until at least June at the earliest. Many other cinemas are getting their 3rd and/or more DLP cinema installed (Scotia Bank Toronto)

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post #19 of 31 Old 03-30-2009, 01:43 AM
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Seen this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/te...l?ref=business

It reports that Sony and AMC have signed a mega deal for SXRD 4K worth $315M to take their screen count close to that of 2K DLP by 2012.

I can't find any *official* reports about this from Sony or AMC. Is this an early 'April fool', is it real, is it imagined or is it a US SXRD Sony exec sensing that the end is near and reporting a negotiation rather than a real deal?

Any more information?
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-30-2009, 11:48 AM
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I can't find it on AMC or Sony, but here's more....

----------

AMC Entertainment To Convert Entire Circuit To Digital Cinema Projection With Sony 4K Systems

--Roll-Out to More than 4,500 Screens Creates Largest Theatre Circuit Powered by Sony 4K Digital Technology

Last update: 10:59 a.m. EDT March 30, 2009

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...%7D&dist=msr_2

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...4996924&EDATE=

KANSAS CITY, Mo. and PARK RIDGE, N.J., March 30, 2009 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- AMC Entertainment Inc. (AMC), a leading theatrical exhibition and entertainment company, has reached an agreement in principle with Sony Electronics to install 4K digital cinema projection systems across its theatre circuit.

With 309 theatres and 4,628 screens, AMC will be the largest entertainment company equipped with 4K digital technology in North America. It accelerates the momentum behind AMC's transition to digital projection technology and will provide AMC guests with the most state-of-the-art on-screen presentation available.

"At AMC, we deliver movies and other great entertainment presented in an immersive, big-screen viewing environment," said Gerry Lopez, chief executive officer and president, AMC Entertainment Inc. "The agreement with Sony drives the quality and experience in that environment to the next level and is a prime example of our strong advocacy of the industry's move to a digital platform. Digital cinema provides a new world of programming flexibility and opportunities for exhibitors, as well as a more efficient method of supplying content to our theatres. Sony 4K technology is a key and will result in an enhanced entertainment experience for our guests."

The Sony 4K digital cinema projections systems being installed at AMC offer the highest picture resolution of all available projection technologies (at 8.8 million pixels, 4K provides image resolution four times greater than 2K projection systems and slightly more than four times greater than high-definition). This, coupled with the ability to exhibit content in an exciting social environment and on screens that are up to 90 to 100 times larger than a typical in-home HDTV, puts AMC in a position to offer industry-changing technology resulting in an undeniably superior entertainment experience, Lopez said.

The 4K systems include manufacturing techniques that result in an efficient installation process. Sony's digital cinema team will work with AMC to provide technical support of the systems and operations management at the company's theatre locations.

"AMC's digital roll-out using 4K technology is a breakthrough for the digital cinema industry and is a model for how these systems can transform an exhibitor's operations," said John Scarcella, president of Sony Electronics' Broadcast and Business Solutions Company.

Looking beyond theatrical projection, Scarcella said the motion picture industry is now working with studios and cinematographers to produce and release 4K features. Sony Pictures Entertainment recently announced they will make and release most of their filmed productions using 4K technology. Sony is currently developing a complete line of digital 4K cinematography production equipment, including systems for 4K acquisition, storage and post-production.

"AMC's decision to install Sony's 4K projection systems is a clear commitment to provide an entertainment experience that far exceeds any other venue," said Gary Johns, vice president of Sony Electronics' Digital Cinema Systems Division. "We are thrilled to join AMC in its effort to raise the level of theatrical presentations."

The AMC roll-out of Sony digital projection systems is planned to begin in the second calendar quarter of 2009 and continue across AMC's North American theatre circuit through 2012. Currently, AMC features Sony's digital projection systems in 11 theatres on 150 screens throughout the circuit; 29 of the current Sony-equipped screens feature 3D capabilities, with additional 3D screens planned as the AMC roll-out continues.

The AMC and Sony agreement is part of an initiative being led by Digital Cinema Implementation Partners, LLC (DCIP), an organization formed in 2007 by AMC, Cinemark USA, Inc. and Regal Entertainment Group. DCIP is charged with planning and implementing the deployment of digital cinema.

About AMC Entertainment Inc.

Headquartered in Kansas City, Mo., AMC Entertainment Inc. is a leading theatrical exhibition and entertainment company. With a history of industry leadership and innovation dating back to 1920, the company today serves hundreds of millions of guests annually through interests in 309 theatres with 4,628 screens in five countries. www.amctheatres.com.

About Sony Electronics

Sony Electronics' Broadcast and Business Solutions Company develops and manufactures video and audio technologies for professional applications including its 4K projectors for digital cinema, as well as technologies for broadcast television and motion picture production, event videography, ENG/EFP, digital cinematography, videoconferencing, IP surveillance and security, digital signage, and remote system diagnostics and monitoring. For more information about Sony's 4K projectors, visit www.sony.com/digitalcinema.

SOURCE AMC Entertainment Inc.; Sony Electronics

http://www.amctheatres.com

Copyright (C) 2009 PR Newswire. All rights reserved
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post #21 of 31 Old 03-30-2009, 01:06 PM
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Here's a link to AMC's press release: http://www.investor.amctheatres.com/...leaseID=373945
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post #22 of 31 Old 03-30-2009, 01:37 PM
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This is bizarre - why are AMC doing this? The economics of running SXRD just don't make sense and 4K is hardly a 'now' technology in terms of pretty much everything in the film production/distribution chain.

35mm mechanical projector life: up to 50 years

DLP projector life: 10+ years

Sony SXRD projector life: 2 years (maybe) before major engine refurbishment, plus all of its 'issues' with uniformity, motion smear, convergence etc.

AMC must have one heck of a deal from Sony. For a company that is close to disaster they sure know how to push things. AMC is a big fan of Sony, so I understand.

I wonder if it will actually happen? IMAX signed up to Sony and then backed out.
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post #23 of 31 Old 03-30-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr70quadruplex View Post

...AMC must have one heck of a deal from Sony. ....

If the NYT $315,000,000 figure is correct, at 4,500 screens, that's $70,000 per screen. Probably a "good" deal...
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post #24 of 31 Old 03-31-2009, 02:18 PM
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if a sony 4k pr. runns 7 hours a day 7 days a week in 1 year they
runn about 2555 hours.

i hear 15000 or 20000 hours shoud be ok without any problems.

so its between 6 years and 8 years and thats not so far from dlps.
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post #25 of 31 Old 03-31-2009, 03:23 PM
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15,000 hours is the Sony spec life of SXRD, I understand. However what does it look like by then? This is a gradual process and at present there is no elapsed time metric. In any case it's likely to run for more than 7 hours a day . . .

It's degrading from day 1. When do you say it's a reject? When there's no blue left or when it's just a slight yellow 'ball'? How dependent on APL is it? Predominantly dark scenes 'trap' the light and will cause premature ageing.

The technology is flawed with regards to life, there's no question about it. This is the real problem so far as theater operations are concerned, so far as I can evaluate. Just what IS the real life? Nobody knows - yet. Would YOU risk it for the first few rows being able to see just a little more detail? It's a huge risk compared to the 'proven' 2k DLP.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I don't know but that sale says only two things to me:

1) They are dumping to open up for something really great or new that would make those projectors so obsolete they couldn't give them away once it is introduced.
2) they are getting out of LCoS

Art

i think the answer is at least #1 --going 3d. dont know if that will require #2 or not.
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post #27 of 31 Old 03-31-2009, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

If the NYT $315,000,000 figure is correct, at 4,500 screens, that's $70,000 per screen. Probably a "good" deal...


It sure as hell is if it is a system !

Art


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post #28 of 31 Old 04-01-2009, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr70quadruplex View Post

15,000 hours is the Sony spec life of SXRD, I understand. However what does it look like by then? This is a gradual process and at present there is no elapsed time metric. In any case it's likely to run for more than 7 hours a day . . .

It's degrading from day 1. When do you say it's a reject? When there's no blue left or when it's just a slight yellow 'ball'? How dependent on APL is it? Predominantly dark scenes 'trap' the light and will cause premature ageing.

The technology is flawed with regards to life, there's no question about it. This is the real problem so far as theater operations are concerned, so far as I can evaluate. Just what IS the real life? Nobody knows - yet. Would YOU risk it for the first few rows being able to see just a little more detail? It's a huge risk compared to the 'proven' 2k DLP.


yes thats why ti have more than 95% of the cinema market.

the sitoatin is different for me as it was a option for me to use
two 4k pr. together with infitec or dolby for 3d and my
running time is not more than 400 hours a year.

but i doubt that with all the big problems i have to deal when i set up
two 4k pr. for a passive 4k 3d system that i will change soon
from my barco dp2000 that do 3d at full res. 2048x1080 at 2x 72 hz in
shutter.
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post #29 of 31 Old 04-11-2009, 01:07 AM
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get a info from sony and they say 30000 hours a cinema unit can do.
so live time cant be a issue anymore.
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post #30 of 31 Old 04-12-2009, 02:06 AM
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30,000 hours?

Are these 'real hours' or 'Sony hours' (as in SXRD RPTV)?

Can they prove this or is it just theoretical?

How and by what criteria do they decide when it has failed? It's a gradual process and one man's fail is another man's OK.

Would you believe Sony these days without cast iron proof?

Was this from a salesman or an engineer?

Sorry to be disbelieving but shouldn't we be with Sony's recent history with this technology? I wouldn't risk it. Potentially money down the drain, big time, along with all the other 'problems' of the type . . .
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