Film is still alive. - Page 2 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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D-cinema Equipment and Theaters > Film is still alive.
stanger89's Avatar stanger89 07:39 PM 05-25-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by GI Joe Sixpack View Post

This is definitely a Hollywood driven move. Cinema patrons weren't clamoring for digital, nor were cinemas (the comments on the projectionist and film tech forums reveal how much they all just love the prospect of replacing long-paid-for film projectors with uber-expensive digital ones).



I just want to jump in here that I completely disagree with the idea that us cinema patrons aren't weren't clamoring for digital. I know for a fact I was. And of the theaters here, I make a point to hit the one screening the movie in digital if at all possible.

Film projection around here has been horrid for quite some time. Something like DVD quality if you're lucky. The prints are bad, the equipment isn't setup right, and on and on. Casino Royale was the first movie I saw at a Digital Cinema and was the first time I'd been impressed or even satisfied with a comercial reproduction in a long time.

So while for those lucky ones of you out there who have film cinemas run and staffed by people who know and care about what they're doing, enough to run clean/quality prints and setup the equipment right, I envy you. But for the rest of us, Digital Cinema has been a godsend in terms of overall quality at the local cinema.
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GI Joe Sixpack's Avatar GI Joe Sixpack 12:41 PM 05-26-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I just want to jump in here that I completely disagree with the idea that us cinema patrons aren't weren't clamoring for digital. I know for a fact I was.

I guess it depends on your definition of "clamoring." And I was clearly implying "a majority of cinema patrons." You - most of us in this forum, in fact - don't constitute the majority. I don't believe that "quality of presentation", beyond some minimally acceptable level, has ever been of great importance for most cinema patrons when deciding to see a show at a particular theatre or not. Location (distance) and show times likely rank far higher on the list. It's anecdotal I realize and hence not proof , but how many times in the past have you seen poorly focused or excessively jumpy, weaving, poor sounding (going way back before digital sound) or otherwise mishandled film, yet no one in the audience (besides yourself, I gather - and me!) seems to complain? "Horrid" film presentations don't seem to have hurt the box office.

For the record, I prefer digital too. It's on ongoing debate whether or not it has raised the performance ceiling but it most certainly has raised the performance floor, which most theatres have been sitting on, truth be told.
stanger89's Avatar stanger89 02:48 PM 05-26-2009
good point
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 05:01 AM 05-28-2009
Assuming one is putting in a film and digital facility at home. Wouldn`t two film projectorsbe needed to avoid reel changing interruptions? Wouldn`t aprojectionist normall be needed? And where doesone get the film negatives to show and how much do they I assume rent for andfor what period? what if the film isdamagedby the renter?
Alan Gouger's Avatar Alan Gouger 07:18 AM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Assuming one is putting in a film and digital facility at home. Wouldn`t two film projectorsbe needed to avoid reel changing interruptions? Wouldn`t aprojectionist normall be needed? And where doesone get the film negatives to show and how much do they I assume rent for andfor what period? what if the film isdamagedby the renter?

Hi Mark

"Change over" using two projectors has been replaced in most theaters
with full play systems. Two types of film transports are common. The most popular is the "Platter" with the next a large full play reel system with one large reel for take up and one for pay out.
Most movies arrive at the theater on 2000 ft reels = 20 minutes which are spliced together for uninterrupted full play. When the cinema is done with its run the movie must be broken back down and put back on the 2000' reels and passed on to the next cinema or returned to the film depot.

Platter.


Kinoton ( what else )full play.

coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine 07:44 AM 05-28-2009
Just to add to Alans points... Full play is where its at, to the extent that some places wont rent you the film if you're using a platter.

I can see the attraction of doing it all yourself, and will certainly learn when I get time, but its not just a "point and shoot" affair like a digital. There is no problem getting a good projectionist to do it for you. He will do everything for you including checking the print, putting it all together and breaking it down.

Hiring a projectionist also makes for more of an event. Ive said this before, but I owe a debt of gratitude to Alan here. When discussing my new install, at the embryonic phase, he suggested I throw in a 35mm option. My reaction was along the lines of "why would I put one of those dinosaurs in?". Alan insisted I was way off base, and should take the opportunity to see a good domestic 35mm install. I did, and within minutes I realized he was right and I was totally wrong. Which brings me back to the projectionist....When I went to see a"private screening", which is what some buffs prefer to call it, the fact that the projectionist came into the reception area, announced the film and led us to our seats, added significantly to the atmosphere.

I will use a projectionist initially, then I'll get him to teach me.

PS Alan....I could have used a heads up on how big and heavy these things are. I had to totally re do the framing for the projection room
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:10 AM 05-28-2009
I am curious. What`s the rental cost of say a current film for a single showing?

Also when i was at the Teluride Film Festival two years back, I visited the an outdoor projection booth and it used two projectors with reel switches.
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn 08:26 AM 05-28-2009
CM,
I bet that private screening atmosphere is really great. When I have my home theater meets having my daughters dressed for the occasion, having a bartender etc adds so much. I've told Angela that we throw parties like the kind we wish we were invited to.

I can only imagine how great your theater and it's atmoshere will be when completed.

Art
Alan Gouger's Avatar Alan Gouger 08:29 AM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I am curious. What`s the rental cost of say a current film for a single showing?

Also when i was at the Teluride Film Festival two years back, I visited the an outdoor projection booth and it used two projectors with reel switches.

The cinema makes very little profit off the movie. It is based on ticket sales. The first week opening of a big block buster Hollywood takes a very large % of ticket sales. Renting that same print a month or two after its opening ( 2nd run Cinemas houses ) you get to keep a larger %.Most money is made off the concession stand.
Teluride Film Festival is unique, a few of the guys transport their full projection both in a trailer like the old 35mm road shows. It is said a full play or change over is easier on film then Platters. As Cm mentioned some film depots will not rent you a film especially a classic if you are running a platter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

PS Alan....I could have used a heads up on how big and heavy these things are. I had to totally re do the framing for the projection room

Wait until you have to lift a full movie built onto one reel. It will keep you young and in shape
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart 10:14 AM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I am curious. What`s the rental cost of say a current film for a single showing?

Also when i was at the Teluride Film Festival two years back, I visited the an outdoor projection booth and it used two projectors with reel switches.

Here is some info on sites that both rent and sell 16 and 35mm films:

http://www.reelclassics.com/Buy/films.htm

You might have to call one to get some exact pricing and I am sure that it is not the same for all movies or all sites.
coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine 10:24 AM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I can only imagine how great your theater and it's atmoshere will be when completed.

No need to imagine. You're booked in for a half hour slot in the stripper cage.

Got to entertain those laydeeeees.
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn 12:03 PM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

No need to imagine. You're booked in for a half hour slot in the stripper cage.

Got to entertain those laydeeeees.



Art
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 12:04 PM 05-28-2009
At Teluride it was very hard to get walk up tickets to anything. The outdoor theater was free and almost everything was shown there once. Given that everything was being shown there, it was probably easier to do the reel change thing. Classics were not shown. Just the new stuff. Sound was very good and they put up about 13 ft lamberts on the screen if I remember correctly.
Alan Gouger's Avatar Alan Gouger 12:11 PM 05-28-2009
Mark go http://www.film-tech.com/

On the left side choose "Pictures" then scroll down to "SPECIAL EVENTS"
you can look at years worth of pictures taken of the Teluride event including the outdoor
venue. Lots of fun, glad you had a chance to experience it. The pics should bring back some memories.
coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine 03:17 PM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post



Art

I've already got the sign hanging outside my house.

"Ladies, come on down and get your root canal filled"
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 05:17 PM 05-28-2009
Just a short derailment. I was in the lobby our downtown Teluride hotel after breakfast. I see this guy standing in the doorway with a Red Sox baseball cap on. So I walked up to him, asked him if he was a Red Sox fan, and we ended talking Red Sox for about 15 minutes. I never asked his name, just a guy. Well after about 15 minutes somebody or other meets him in the lobby and they go off.


My wife and a couple of older movie groupies, the plus 50 NYC psuedo intellectual types, come up to me and say WOW. What did you guys talk about? Did you get his autograph? I said, that guy, just a knowledgeable sports fan. Nice guy. One of the NYC types said don't you know who that was? I said I had no idea. My wife covers her face and the other lady says how could you come to Teluride for the film festival with a moronic husband who doesn't even know who Sean Penn is? The truth is we didn't know the film festival was happening. We just drove to Teluride to see the town and spend the night. Of course my wife knew who all the actors and actresses were. In fact, we were run into by Larry David on top of the mountain where the village you reach from Teluride by free cable car is. Lots of film festival theaters were in that village. Larry was running to get somewhere. He sent me flying, a body hit and run. A quick sorry without looking back. My wife was again excited, now she could tell all her friends that not only did I talk with Sean and but I also ran into Larry.
coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine 05:48 PM 05-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

CM. I just read you tag line again. "to place nice sometimes." I am sure I am missing something but what the hell does "to place nice sometimes" mean? Do you really mean "to play nice sometimes"?

Thanks.

It was "play", but after a change, I misspelled it when I reverted.
Alan Gouger's Avatar Alan Gouger 06:02 PM 06-22-2009
" Film Is Still Alive" or was,

Kodak Retires KODACHROME Film. Another era comes to an end.
Full article:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....821&highlight=
TheRiz's Avatar TheRiz 04:44 PM 08-05-2009
very nice
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart 12:26 PM 08-07-2009
Quote:


Kodak estimates that current supplies of KODACHROME Film will last until early this fall at the current sales pace. Dwayne’s Photo has indicated it will continue to offer processing for the film through 2010. Current KODACHROME Film users are encouraged to try other KODAK Films, such as KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME E100G and EKTAR 100 Film. These films both feature extremely fine grain. For more information, please visit www.kodak.com/go/professional.

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...00688a80b4e692
Kamus's Avatar Kamus 06:11 AM 08-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

So glad to see Film has not been written off.
On the large cinema screen it still offers unmatched benefits.
Another leap forward for the Kodak Vision 3 film platform.

Interview with Fred Murphy.

You say that because you probably visit theaters with competent employes.

In my city, even the best theaters have the most incompetent people you can imagine, film usually looks as if it was old to boot.
Really, i can't go to a SINGLE film showing with out them somehow messing up something.
Anywhere from the film burning to forgetting to set the aspect ratio correctly... (mind you, these are very nice theaters.. you'd think they would get it right.)

But, all that has changed for the theater halls with digital projectors, no more film looking old, no burned film, and no wrong focus or forgetting to set the aspect ratio.
I for one can't wait till they get digital projectors in every theater here.
mike2060's Avatar mike2060 09:11 AM 09-02-2009
How does someone have a film projector in their homes? Where do they get the movies from?
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart 06:37 PM 09-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2060 View Post

How does someone have a film projector in their homes? Where do they get the movies from?

http://homeclassiccinema.moonfruit.com/

http://www.reelclassics.com/Buy/films.htm

http://www.filmsforsale.net/
Glimmie's Avatar Glimmie 06:53 PM 09-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post

You say that because you probably visit theaters with competent employes.

.......

But, all that has changed for the theater halls with digital projectors, no more film looking old, no burned film, and no wrong focus or forgetting to set the aspect ratio.
I for one can't wait till they get digital projectors in every theater here.

Wait until the same people get into the set up menus on the digital projectors!

Oh and focus is still manual so nothing has changed there.
mike2060's Avatar mike2060 06:48 AM 09-03-2009
coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine 07:40 AM 09-03-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2060 View Post

Thanks

Those would certainly not be the routes I'd recommend if you intend to install a decent 35mm option and require current, high quality films.

The projectors are bought in the same way as anything else. Just do some research to get a rough idea of what you are after, then contact the relevant equipment suppliers. There are some great deals to be had atm. Research is key, especially if you don't have someone to guide you, the equipment is complex and the number of options and facilities can get mind boggling.


There are forums, heavily cinema industry orientated, that will give you all the info you need.

Obtaining films is no problem, but your equipment will have an effect on what the rental companies will let you have i.e full play is a must have to have all the options open.

Look at the link below to get an idea of what the machines are about.

http://www.kinoton.com/film-projectors.htm

Here are some suppliers

http://www.kinotonamerica.com/sales-partners.htm
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