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post #31 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

I also hope that both the TI and Sony are ready to push lasers in 2011. That could solve the brigtness problem

Finally laser bright enough to light up a 60 foot screen !

Downside, it focuses enough heat that it burns right through the screen
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post #32 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Do people think this announcement is premature?
Do you guys expect products early in 2011 and not in 2010?

I think the announcement is exactly on time. It is a damage control maneuver to so that they can get into the 4K digital cinema arena before SXRD takes it over. I believe that given the choice the commercial chains would prefer it be DLP so that is on their side but announcing now puts out the doubt if going SXRD is a good idea...breathing room.



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post #33 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 01:40 PM
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The new "Pico" units are HVGA 320x480 at 0.17" diagonal. This works out to 7.5 microns. The new 1920x1080 chip used in some new lower cost projectors is about 0.65 inch diagonal. Also 7.5 microns. A 4096x2160 DCI chip at 7.5 microns would be 1.36 inch diagonal. To get to 1.2 inches, the pitch would be about about 6.6 microns -- a bit smaller than current production.
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post #34 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr70quadruplex View Post

OK, how do we get this confirmed that it's real 4K with over 8 MP and not some clever frig?

I can't believe that these companies would risk their reputations by claiming 4K that, well, isn't really.

The pixel pitch is the real key. What is it?

Are there some 'lurkers' here who can confirm that we really are talking a genuine, non-frigged, non-wobbulated, no tricks 4K?

I really want this to be true!

no tricks no clever frig just true 4k with a 1.2" dmd.

but not now and not early next year.

best case is very late 2010.

so more than one year to wait and mutch time to talk about it
without knowing the facts
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post #35 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 03:15 PM
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As TI announced in its release, new platform by late 2009, projectors by 2010, and combined with the projector vendor releases that say first 2K, then 4K, Wolfgang's time-line seems the one they are working off.
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post #36 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 03:19 PM
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Wolfgang any news on these chips ending up in the hands of the folks at Zeiss?
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post #37 of 66 Old 06-22-2009, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr70quadruplex View Post

OK, how do we get this confirmed that it's real 4K with over 8 MP and not some clever frig?

I can't believe that these companies would risk their reputations by claiming 4K that, well, isn't really.

The pixel pitch is the real key. What is it?

Are there some 'lurkers' here who can confirm that we really are talking a genuine, non-frigged, non-wobbulated, no tricks 4K?

I really want this to be true!

Read my 2 previous posts in this thread, Confirmed 100% irrefutable.

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post #38 of 66 Old 06-23-2009, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

The new "Pico" units are HVGA 320x480 at 0.17" diagonal. This works out to 7.5 microns. The new 1920x1080 chip used in some new lower cost projectors is about 0.65 inch diagonal. Also 7.5 microns. A 4096x2160 DCI chip at 7.5 microns would be 1.36 inch diagonal. To get to 1.2 inches, the pitch would be about about 6.6 microns -- a bit smaller than current production.

6 microns is what was quoted to me.
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post #39 of 66 Old 06-23-2009, 02:05 PM
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Thanks, guys, I'm convinced that it's real now!

It sounds like it should be a fairly logical and manageable progression for TI to cope with this kind of device geometry improvement. There's still the issue of chip addressing but now that Sony has managed to carve up the pixel real estate into four chunks I guess TI will do the same? I'm really pleased that the Sony technology is not the one that we have to use in the long term - it's just so unstable in terms of uniformity, gray scale, black level, color etc. The digital 'certainty' of DLP is so comforting . . .

Rgds. to all.
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post #40 of 66 Old 06-23-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Wolfgang any news on these chips ending up in the hands of the folks at Zeiss?

this infos
are secret and noting for a public forum.

even pm i cant say anything.

the only thing i can say is that there is some development going on
but its far to early to have some results.
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post #41 of 66 Old 06-23-2009, 06:15 PM
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Developments as expected, I guess. Dual illumination and related pixel registration should be quite tricky at this small pixel size. Additional light loss will need to be addressed aswell. Stuff is still in such an early stage of product development that no announcements are to be expected.
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post #42 of 66 Old 06-24-2009, 07:48 AM
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zeiss ship the velvet already so this is done.

but this model is no home cinema and no simulation pr. at the moment.

if we will get a home cinema version that unit will be very very expensive.
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post #43 of 66 Old 06-24-2009, 11:29 AM
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I know Zeiss was scheduled to have started shipping the current dome projector, I was refering to new product development, 4K chip and following 4K Velvet projectors. All of the TI 4K product development is still in fairly early stages, let-alone development for the low volume market Zeiss targets.
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post #44 of 66 Old 06-24-2009, 04:36 PM
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that is far to early to even thing about it.

there are so many problem to solve in this velevt design and big big companys
cant get it working that i think we will may never see this zeiss design with
a 4k dlp.

dont forget even 3chip 4k cinema dlps are more than one year away.

i think we will now see soon a new 4k cinema pr. announcement
from sony.
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post #45 of 66 Old 07-04-2009, 07:22 AM
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The Summer of 4K?
Submitted by Nick Dager on Mon, 06/29/2009 - 11:18.

* Big Picture
* The Big Picture

This was supposed to be the summer of 3D but instead it has quickly become the summer of 4K or, at least, the summer of the 4K press releases. The real question is this: What does any of this really mean to exhibitors, the people who are already trying to integrate new technology into their actual day-to-day businesses?

First, some history:

2K versus 4KThe 4K-2K debate has been ongoing since the very earliest days of digital cinema. In the run up to the formation of the Digital Cinema Initiative, Sony and a few others lobbied strongly to have 4K included as a central component of the original specifications. The initial response from the Texas Instruments people who were involved at the time - many of whom are no longer with the company - seemed to be to resist, or at least to ignore, 4K at every turn. And once TI successfully demonstrated its first 2K chip to the movie community the digital cinema era began in full force.

Meanwhile, and for some time the Hollywood production and post-production communities have been solidly behind a move to 4K. The almost cult-like acceptance around the world of the Red One camera has helped lead that charge. Other camera manufacturers are competing strongly at the high-resolution end. Sony's own newly released F35 camera is currently being used on several productions in Hollywood, Panavision's Genesis camera is a favorite of many cinematographers and JVC has announced that it will soon bring to market its own professional 4K camera.

A growing number of studios support at least the idea of 4K-movie distribution. This Spring Sony Pictures Entertainment released Angels & Demons in 4K, which is to be expected but, in a sign of a growing trend, Paramount and Twentieth Century-Fox both recently released movies in 4K, The Soloist and X-Men Origins: Wolverine respectively. The dream of many in Hollywood is to have a production, post-production and exhibition workflow that is built - seamlessly they envision - on 4K technology. Agree or disagree, but some have made the case that a 4K workflow from start to finish most closely mirrors the current worldwide celluloid workflow that digital cinema was designed (and is destined) to replace.

Which brings us to the most recent 4K developments. They began, of course, with Sony's announcements that first AMC and then Regal would incorporate Sony 4K technology - projectors and servers - across the board in all their theatres. These press releases were followed rather quickly by a series of 4K announcements including:

Texas Instruments DLP Cinema's plans to incorporate enhanced 4K technology as an extension of the next generation electronics platform for DLP Cinema projectors. TI says it will continue to innovate on and further the development of its DLP Cinema 2K chips. The new chip is designed for theatre screens as big as 100 feet and 3D screens as big as 75 feet.

Cinemark says it will work exclusively with TI when adopting 4K. In tandem with that announcement Doremi Cinema says that it has entered into an exclusive agreement with Cinemark to provide 2K and 4K-server technology for their digital cinema deployment. And Barco says that it will supply Cinemark with 4K projectors.

Also, and in a move that is likely to be followed by other server manufacturers, GDC Technology says that it is developing a 4K Media Block, which will be compatible with the new generation of 4K chip being developed by Texas Instruments.

Finally, Christie says it plans to introduce its Solaria series digital cinema projectors, based on the new TI 4K chip. The new product line includes the Christie CP2210, Christie CP2220 and the Christie CP2230 - all available at 2K and 4K-ready; as well as Christie's premium 4K projectors for screens up to 100 feet: the Christie CP4220 and the Christie CP4230.

All of the above developments are set to go into effect next year - at the earliest.

When Texas Instruments announced that it would introduce a 4K chip next year Nancy Fares, TI's manager of DLP Cinema, made a point of emphasizing that the company has said for a long time that, There's nothing to keep us from doing 4K except timing and the market. Fares continues to stress both the success of 2K versus 4K and that TI has no intention of abandoning 2K technology as a viable option. When projecting 3D, she says, We have more pixels in 2K than 4K projectors do. Our 4K is not a replacement for 2K. It's an option for 4K for exhibitors to use on big screens. We will continue to innovate in both areas. She called offering a choice, The reality the industry deserves.

Making a case for offering choices is sensible for Texas Instruments and its OEM partners if only for the fact that, for now at least, Sony seems to be sticking to its 4K guns and has no plans to introduce a 2K projector.

Gary Johns, vice president, Digital Cinema Systems Division, Sony Electronics, says, Sony has always maintained that 4K is the right choice for digital cinema, and that fact continues to be embraced by both exhibitors and studios. The adoption of 4K technology now by other companies is just further endorsement of the position to which Sony dedicated its financial and technology investments five years ago.

He says that, 4K technology is still the most effective foundation for a digital cinema system, with a noticeable improvement in picture quality. It allows exhibitors to future-proof their operations for the expanding number of 4K motion picture releases. It gives theatres the flexibility for high-quality 2D playback as well as the increasingly important ability to display spectacular 3D releases. It is also capable of displaying 2K content better than 2K projectors. Sony has no plans to offer a 2K-only projector for digital cinema.

For market leader Christie the move to 4K seems to an inevitable step in the ongoing evolution of the digital cinema era. Jack Kline, Christie's president and COO, says, The industry told us they could see no difference between 2K and 4K projection on screens of 40 feet and smaller, the standard in exhibition. But - in some cases - exhibitors said they would prefer higher resolution. We listened to our customers.


Nevertheless, he says, We still believe that DLP 2K will continue to be the dominant platform in theatres.


The lone holdout - at least for now - among the three OEMs for Texas Instruments has been NEC, which has so far made no announcement one way or the other about 4K.

Jim Reisteter, NEC's general manager of digital cinema, says as a matter of corporate philosophy NEC believes in listening to customers first. Reisteter says he has spent the summer talking with customers and prospects to gauge their interest in 4K. Prior to this summer no one had ever even mentioned the subject of 4K to him and, while some have done so recently, he attributes this to all of the publicity generated by the recent announcements. He says he still hasn't seen a groundswell of demand for a move up from 2K.

We really don't rush to market [with new technology], Reisteter says. I've been listening to customers and their main question for 2K or 4K is still: Where is the money going to come from?'

That is the sentiment I got from the exhibitors I spoke with about the issue. None of them wanted to speak on the record because they have relationships with many manufacturers and don't want to be seen as taking sides.

One industry veteran, whose entire small chain has been 2K digital for years, was typical. He didn't want his name used in this article but he had plenty to say and summed the situation up beautifully:

I think all these announcements are just meant to keep their hats in the ring. As we both know, anyone can craft a press release. But given the sudden about face of TI's position on it, I would question their ability to deliver. Separately, Sony is cutting back production and it remains to be seen if they can deliver at the pace required on their existing contracts. The presentation difference presently doesn't justify the expense. Additionally, until the Studios see the need to spend more producing a 4K version, they probably won't be big supporters. 4K will probably be in our future somewhere, but prices will have come down beforehand. I think price is the final arbiter. 4K is niceat 2K prices. 



Looks like they will be publishing a sony whitepaaer there:



LINK TO DCR WHITEPAPER BOOKMARK
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post #46 of 66 Old 07-04-2009, 09:12 AM
 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:
When projecting 3D, she says, “We have more pixels in 2K than 4K projectors do.

What did she mean by that?
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post #47 of 66 Old 07-04-2009, 09:36 AM
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3-D is 2x2k (4:2:2) over dual hdsdi, in order for 4k projectors to do 3-D 2 simultaneous side by side images have to be projected within the 4k panel.
4k based projector 3d may be 4:4:4, not sure.

I deduct that there must be some pixel setbacks between the two signals projected on the same pane that encumber into the total pixel count for an individual panel. If it is, it is not by much though. While the sony 4k system have been perfected the sony 3D looked no better than the Digital projection Titan Coraline Clips at Infocomm (not to my liking -but it was perhaps a bad transfer- I hope). The DPI TITAN Video Gaming segments were outstanding however , easily besting the Sony 3D demonstrations, which continue to NOT IMPRESS expert filmhandlers. Not so with the Barco which appears settling itself at the very top of the Digital Cinema food chain. Barco has redirected all it's projector resources at the Digital Cinema segment. They are there to rule, by most expert accounts. This meant for them not attending Infocomm. I am a firm believer that jack of all trades master of none, so Barco: plug away at 4k.

Perhaps Mr. Gelfond should put aside national favoritism and start equipping their Imax theaters with Barco Projectors to eliminate the pastiness of the image, an unaccepatable bug that seems endemic to Chrisite units and because of the overlaying effect of the double stacks, it could be the harbinger of the company's early demise.
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post #48 of 66 Old 07-04-2009, 03:10 PM
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a 3d picture use 2 times 2048x1080 pixels left and right increase
the picture quality compare to a 2d 2048x1080 picture
no question.

that is only the case when its a true 3d recording not true for moivies that
are digitaly convert from 2d to 3d.

i do since 30 years 3d and as i have a cinama pr. and
source material (stills in 2d and 3d)
that i can compare very well between 2d and 3d i say that a 3d image in
2048x1080 (2,21mil pixels) looks resolution wise like a 3 to 3,5 mil. pixel 2d picture.

sad that dci have no specs for a true 4k picture in 3d.
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post #49 of 66 Old 01-10-2010, 03:30 PM
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Anyone know if the Solaria CP2210 is able to be contrast enhanced? Looks nice at only 96lbs
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post #50 of 66 Old 01-10-2010, 06:43 PM
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Hi Lon Jim may be better for an answer but this is the series 2 version of the old cp2000-M. Last i checked that compact series is not the best platform, but others may opine different. I think the big solaria is the sh_t , with a reference 3-D image, but I am afraid of the cermax lamp platform which often flickers (even at the Wolf demos). The 2000-m required 440 cfm's of air exhaust vs. 235 for a 1200/1500 B.
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post #51 of 66 Old 01-10-2010, 07:01 PM
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Thanks Peter, I didn't realize the 2000M required special exhaust handling, I would be trying to avoid that much less 440 Cfm's worth.
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post #52 of 66 Old 01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
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Lon some talk about this machine over on Film-Techs web site.
Click here.
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post #53 of 66 Old 02-10-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hi Lon Jim may be better for an answer but this is the series 2 version of the old cp2000-M. Last i checked that compact series is not the best platform, but others may opine different. I think the big solaria is the sh_t , with a reference 3-D image, but I am afraid of the cermax lamp platform which often flickers (even at the Wolf demos). The 2000-m required 440 cfm's of air exhaust vs. 235 for a 1200/1500 B.

What does a CP2000-M or Solaria have to do with Cermax? None of them use Cermax platforms afaik.
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post #54 of 66 Old 02-10-2010, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:


In 2010, Barco will further expand its family of digital projectors with a brand-new line of 4K-ready solutions. This 'Series 2' projector family will present customers with the most future-proof digital projection solutions on the market. ”We are proud that the next generation Barco 'Series 2' projectors will be the first fully DCI-compliant DLP projectors in the industry to leave the production lines and be installed in the field,” stated Wim Buyens, Vice-President Digital Cinema at Barco.

http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=1717
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post #55 of 66 Old 02-17-2010, 07:17 AM
 
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Christie First to Ship and Install 'Series 2' DLP Cinema Projectors

Quote:


Christie®, the leader in digital cinema projection technologies, is pleased to confirm full production, shipping and installation of the latest generation of 4K-ready DLP Cinema® projectors, the Christie Solaria™ series, beginning with the Christie CP2220. The Christie CP2220 digital cinema projector features Texas Instruments’ (TI) (NYSE: TXN) next generation Series 2 DLP Cinema technology. Shipments began early January to North and South America, Europe and Asia and are now installed and showing feature films worldwide, including Australia, Canada, Korea and the United States.

http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=1725
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post #56 of 66 Old 02-17-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrybczyn View Post

What does a CP2000-M or Solaria have to do with Cermax? None of them use Cermax platforms afaik.

I thought they did use some form of mini-lamp made by cermax.
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post #57 of 66 Old 03-14-2011, 02:51 PM
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Epic Action Movie Lined Up for World’s First 4K DLP Cinema Projection


the film debuting in 4K DLP, at Galaxy Cinemas Waterloo (Canada) is Battle: Los Angeles
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post #58 of 66 Old 03-24-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles37 View Post
Epic Action Movie Lined Up for World’s First 4K DLP Cinema Projection


the film debuting in 4K DLP, at Galaxy Cinemas Waterloo (Canada) is Battle: Los Angeles
I saw this movie with a 2K DLP Cinema projector (a Barco DP2k-32b in a Regal RPX theater) and thought it looked great most of the time (although it switched between really sharp and documentary style grainy at times) and would love to see what it looks like with a 4K DLP (although I might not sit through the whole thing again).

Now that at least one theater has a 4K projector I wonder how long before others will get them and whether it will be possible to find out if any theaters in the Seattle area have them.

I know the Cinerama in Seattle reported that they were getting a 2K projector that was upgradable months ago, but not sure if upgrades like that are likely to happen first or new installs of 4K projectors.

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post #59 of 66 Old 03-24-2011, 05:20 PM
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The upgrades will avalanche (relatively)after august/september.

With a good lense it is just the most incredible sight to behold.
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post #60 of 66 Old 03-24-2011, 06:56 PM
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Peter,
Are there going to be any 4k dlps at cedia?

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