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post #1 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Some may be able to dig how I predicted that there would be as new lower end DCI projector from Barco, what I was speculative in suggesting is that it should be named the DP-1200, based on the 2kw lamp limitation, which Barco ended up naming "to the tee".

While Cristie had demonstrated a triple frame 3D capable 1.2 DMD projector last SHOWEAST (whilst Barco's DP-3000 was not TRIPLE Frame self contained 3D capable at the time)this development afforded Christie the timing to announce that they were 4K ready (Enhanced 2K). Hence their announcement of the 2k/4K models (which is nothing technologically taxing since a 1.2" 2k dmd has similar optics requirements of a 4L 1.2 DMD.

But who wants a Christie in their home? Certainly continued shootouts consistently place Barco first for sharpness and depth (MTF), Christie second for a competent run of the mill image and SONY as a work in progress last place. See the film handlers forum:" From all the presentations I found that watching movies on the Barco range provided crisper and deeper images. Christie lacked the depth of Barco and Sony GEEZSZZ.", and JOHNTY's review here plus many other echoes. Of course you could have taken my word for it over the last few years.

SO WHAT IS BARCO UP TO with 4K? We will not see a roadmap until ShowEast here in Florida come October.

I predict that the sole purveyor of lab grade maximum MTF reference DCI projectors will make this move:

I know the Barco DP-3000 was going to be overhauled with many of the features of the .98 machines, it was going to be labeled DP-3000 series 2 and was to compete with the "double frame" "single Projector 3D capable" 1.2" 6kw> category first shown by Christie last October.

I predict that what was going to be the DP-3000 series 2 will now be known as (Ben Ik correct, heren?) the DP-4000 series. How could they not take advantage of such marketing opportunity?

So with that prediction in mind, I would like to speculate what the installation requirements for a SUPERKONTRAST 4K should be....




.... because looking at the spec sheets this projector requires some serious power. Best start planning for it.


CAVEAT: THIS POST IS PURELY SPECULATIVE IN NATURE. No assurance is given that this will be the actual product path; still we would not mind a wager.
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post #2 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post




I predict that what was going to be the DP-3000 series 2 will now be known as (Ben I correct, heren?) the DP-4000 series. How could they not take advantage of such marketing opportunity?

But will it be able to do 2.76:1 ?

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post #3 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh yes. But keep in mind that due to the excellent supply of 2-D concerts from the Eagle Vision Brand (ORDER ALL OF THEM), and the introduction of 3D,PLUS 4K that CIH will be competing with CIA.

This projector can handle CIH 2.76 like the .98" platform( I believe -we will confirm when post he lens data).

I envision a 4 way CURVED MASKING with some superb AT Maximum light absorption coefficient German Velvet (someone spoke about taking orders at CEDIA for it ) where the widest image would be 2.76, the tallest image would be 1.66 (or 1.77), then square footage/area consistency would be maintained across all aspect ratios.

Of course you can have a Large Cinemascope mode to watch most of the choice content but the impact on the Screening room design will call for near stadium seating conditions. This is how I envision making the most out of 4K, concerts and 3-D.

Of course in some rooms CIH works best and the smart lens accommodates that too.
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post #4 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 09:28 AM
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How much would you say the premium would be over the 3000? List according to one local vendor is E 100K for the 3000.
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post #5 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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These DCI cinema units can only be purchased by one vendor with full warranty, and even then you really need someone with 2 years head start on the macro and control area, that at the moment is mua I am sure others will come, plus the Depth FX is going the biggest thing to happen to 2D ever, and is locked up .

So it's best to discuss this in terms of TOTAL Budget to end user rather than plain vanilla projector list prices, which I am not sure even exist in this field where sales are done direct in multiples of 100. In any event mine is pure speculation.

It is safe to say under $180 for now, Not Bad for the Meridians worst nightmare.
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post #7 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not saying that internally the new projectors are going to be ANYTHING like the 3000, I am saying that from an installation requirements I wager that if you have a 3000 base, a 3000 power supply unit, a ventilation system optimized for such a beast and air conditioned, noise abated and hushed for this machine, I wager that you will be able to just plop in the DP-4000.

The new projector will have integrated electronics with the MEDIA BLOCK inside for DCI, the sever now will only be storage, any hdsdi inputs will be separate from the internal media stream.

It has quickly become common knowledge that the Barco's (Christie can thank Imax for that) are the sharpest (least pasti looking) and highest depth conveying projectors at the moment, and the SUPERKONTRAST MK IV takes the cake, trust me. If you think that these projectors now rule in MTF, forget it, 4K will be a new level of image revelation with brand new optics. Frankly, I cannot wait.
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post #8 of 49 Old 07-15-2009, 12:56 PM
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And since, the Barco pdf you linked to earlier states that the 3000 is based on the DP100 chassis, it should be more or less a slot-in replacemnt for that one as well. Boy, Peter, is destined to be a busy boy in 2010/2011;-).
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post #9 of 49 Old 07-16-2009, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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May be not so Donald because although the physical box, and the module compartments are DP100 like that is where the similarity ends. The DP3000 operates very much like a DP-1500, including the smart lens and communicator software (how the projector is set up and the macro architecture encoded). In fact I believe the DP100 has an internal power supply. Only a room with an existing dp-3000 or prefitted with the lamphouse power supply, projector pedestal, triphase connectivity, noise abatement and air handling installation spefifically designed for the DP-3000 would be upgradeable to the mythical DP-4000.

Due to the new formats being enjoyable with these machines new theater architectures are needed, TALL and BUT NOT TOO RECTANGULAR (rather shallow), they have to be IN Your Face mini stadium settings, not with CIH (2 years from now video concerts scaled to 4k, 2k 3D and Nature videos scaled to 4K will impose the need for equal area across ratios).
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post #10 of 49 Old 07-17-2009, 07:53 AM
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And new lycra vendors, to strech seamless rp screens;-).
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post #11 of 49 Old 07-25-2009, 09:33 AM
 
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Omly $180K. seriously not that bad for anyone in the market for an HT of that class. remeber this is not a pop it in and play projector. You will be getting an awful lot of value added fromthe vendor and installer. the installer had better be very expeienced in installations of this type and be relatively near to the installation. you had better like him too, he will become family.
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post #12 of 49 Old 07-25-2009, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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We envision a different scenario, since most of the projector diagnostic can be monitored on line, all that is needed is access to Barco' superb trained engineers, working together with engineering and tech support and 24 hour parts dispatch (which do not need to be local). For example if one of my modded units be installed in Singapore or Thailand I would work closely with Hendarto Ciputra on all aspects of the install, my technical people in LA would do the remote monitoring and coordinate the flow of replacement parts (if needed), the modded and the non modded. Barco, my tech people (the only sanctioned by Barco to Modify with Full Warranty)and I have a strict methodology for labeling and tracking internal modded components, even if a superficial modification like a contrast enhancement filter in a lamp house. That way if such lamp house were exchanged in a warranty situation Barco's pool of service parts would not be polluted with contrast enhanced parts. With a light engine it is more complicated my technical people have to take it apart and remove any modifications before it can incorporate the Barco service parts pool.
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post #13 of 49 Old 07-25-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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Like I say,you need a good installer such as Peter and the availabilty of well qualified support which he has that can provide you with on site service quickly.


my point primarily was the pricing seems fair from what you will get and it looks like Peter has provided for it.
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post #14 of 49 Old 07-25-2009, 03:56 PM
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its not double frame for 3d its

""tripple frame""

the new 1.2" dmd version can do.

double frame in 3d the old 1.2" dms can do since some years.

show west early next year will be the show to see as there will
be likely shootout between the a first sample of the 4k dlp pr. and
a new sony 4k pr.
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post #15 of 49 Old 07-25-2009, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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post #16 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 06:59 AM
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yes that a good tip.
i will order this bd if i can get it.

i found lately that all the 1920x1080 pr. that can do 3d like the titan can only
do 2x 60 hz 3d and not 2x72 hz.

opposite the cinema units like my barco can only do 2x 48hz and
2x 72 hz in 3d at full 2048x1080 but no 2x 60 hz

so its till today not clear when ti talk about live3d in cinemas
what they mean.
as live are most record at 60 hz there cinema units cant show it
and if the record in 24p displayed with tripple flasch (2x 72 hz)it will be studder.
same when they convert the signals.

even my good informed sources dont know about it and tell
me this will be interesting to know.

btw. i saw in my crystalball that a guy very close to my home
will get soon a barco dci unit a dp 1200

good for me as i am not anymore the "only" total craziest in germany
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post #17 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 12:03 PM
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Dear Wolfgang,

than we will be at minimum three now in:

"good for me as i am not anymore the "only" total craziest in germany"

hhelmut
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post #18 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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post #19 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 02:59 PM
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What is the street price on one of these ?

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post #20 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
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Dear Wolfgang,

than we will be at minimum three now in:

"good for me as i am not anymore the "only" total craziest in germany"

hhelmut

dear hhelmut

that is nice.
what model you have and did you have the cr. mod.? inside.

if more are that crazy people get sutch a cinema pr. the more soon
we will get real cinema content.
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post #21 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the street price on one of these ?

Art

Because every installation varies we are saying budget prices going up from 100 to the end user, but that includes crestron and amx front end (which is very much needed) and other installation items plus consultation. So it may change also depending on the projector needed and the 3d Dolby wheel etc...
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post #22 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 03:10 PM
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Because every installation varies we are saying budget prices going up from 100 to the end user, but that includes crestron and amx front end (which is very much needed) and other installation items plus consultation. So it may change also depending on the projector needed and the 3d Dolby wheel etc...

Thanks ! I look foward to chatting with you at CEDIA.

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post #23 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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dear hhelmut


if more are that crazy people get sutch a cinema pr. the more soon
we will get real cinema content.

This is the exact opinion of the booking agents, but the install base has to grow from the top down they say first you get the Hollywood big wigs from the studio [BEL AIR CIRCUIT TIER ONE] they do not have to pay anything and get day and date release, then you get their friends that are famous singers and sports and the heads of state figures [BEL AIR CIRCUIT TIER TWO] they have to pay something $1,500 for 3 times payback (Obama gets it for free), they get it two weeks after initial release, then there is deep pockets enthusiasts like Wolfgang and Odyssey that pay some more than level 2 but get the content released coinciding with the Hotel Pay Per View window [BEL-AIR CIRCUIT TIER THREE], hopefully finally there is level 4 where enthusiasts pay $800 to see older content just for 3 days (like Hondo 3-D, Beowulf ) I would like to see that happen for myself.
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post #24 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Thanks ! I look foward to chatting with you at CEDIA.

Art

I think that one of the things besides the sharpness and depth of the image that really is going to please a lot of folks is the fact that the pixel structure does not appear visible like on our consumer DLP's, Ruben portrayed it to be more LCOS like. Another great thing is the convergence adjustability and automatic lamp focus (to eliminate flicker -and manipulate lamp intensity further).
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post #25 of 49 Old 07-26-2009, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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When will it get to say Tier 8? Something like $99 dollars for old content for 3 days?
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post #27 of 49 Old 07-27-2009, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I think that one of the things besides the sharpness and depth of the image that really is going to please a lot of folks is the fact that the pixel structure does not appear visible like on our consumer DLP's, Ruben portrayed it to be more LCOS like. Another great thing is the convergence adjustability and automatic lamp focus (to eliminate flicker -and manipulate lamp intensity further).

So this is the DCI chip fill factor being better than the consumer units ?

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post #28 of 49 Old 07-27-2009, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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post #29 of 49 Old 08-01-2009, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=W.Mayer;16889935]
opposite the cinema units like my barco can only do 2x 48hz and
2x 72 hz in 3d at full 2048x1080 but no 2x 60 hz

so its till today not clear when ti talk about live3d in cinemas
what they mean.
as live are most record at 60 hz there cinema units cant show it
and if the record in 24p displayed with tripple flasch (2x 72 hz)it will be studder.
same when they convert the signals.

Look at this machine says 24 and 30.
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post #30 of 49 Old 08-01-2009, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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WOLFGANG SAID:

opposite the cinema units like my barco can only do 2x 48hz and
2x 72 hz in 3d at full 2048x1080 but no 2x 60 hz

so its till today not clear when ti talk about live3d in cinemas
what they mean.
as live are most record at 60 hz there cinema units cant show it
and if the record in 24p displayed with tripple flasch (2x 72 hz)it will be studder.
same when they convert the signals.

Look at this machine says 24 and 30.
LL
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