The New Big 4K Sony Pr. SRX-T420 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 65 Old 10-23-2009, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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sony introduce there new big 4k pr. the SRX-T420

21000 lumen with only 4200 w xenon lamp together with 3000:1 cr. is a huge
step up from the old 4k pr.
in the past lcos pr. have only about the half light out with
the same lamp power as a 3 chip dlp pr.and now
sony have more!

for sample my barco dp 2000 with a 4000 watt xenon lamp have
18000 lumen.(1 watt give 4,5 lumen)

now sony have with a 4200 watt xenon 21000 lumen(1 watt give 5 lumens!) and that more lumen/watt than dlp have!!!

what a huge development!

also weight is only 399ib mutch less what the old 220 have.

may the specs are wrong as i almost can not belive it.
but see here for yourself the details:
http://www.aboutprojectors.com/pdf/s...t420-specs.pdf
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post #2 of 65 Old 10-23-2009, 04:21 PM
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Thanks. I wonder if it has any adjustments for digital convergence. Would seem like a shame if it doesn't.

The extra light could be pretty useful for 3D applications too. I saw Up in 3D from a Sony 4K and it just seemed kind of drab. I would have liked to have seen it in 2D for the extra light but around here the only reasonable choices I had with digital were 3D. At least at home we have some options for getting more light for 3D (like not making the images as big or using a Da-Lite High Power screen if not going too big for it).

--Darin

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post #3 of 65 Old 10-23-2009, 04:56 PM
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I got to see several of these last week at Sony in Culver City. They are huge. They also upgraded some processing in these as well.
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post #4 of 65 Old 10-23-2009, 11:52 PM
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Interesting also that this new 4K pr includes the DVI w HDCP board, the old flagship couldn't do HDCP I seem to remember...

Is there any way yet to have one of these configured to do it's native 4k x 2k from a PC *AND* do DVI/HDCP for watching Blu-Rays?

.....saving for my upgrade to Hidef Digital in Christmas 2002
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post #5 of 65 Old 10-24-2009, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggerPicture View Post

Interesting also that this new 4K pr includes the DVI w HDCP board, the old flagship couldn't do HDCP I seem to remember...

Is there any way yet to have one of these configured to do it's native 4k x 2k from a PC *AND* do DVI/HDCP for watching Blu-Rays?

yes with this pr. you can do both.

i wonder as this model is a "T" model can it playback DCI Content?
may this model is not a cinema pr.but i am sure sony will use this pr.
for a cinema model for sure.

and a 4000watt xenon lamp is not the maximum.
there are 5 and 6000watt xenon lamps as well..........

as efficiency from xenon lamps go down the bigger they get
it is possible that we will see a + 30000 lumen lcos some day.
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post #6 of 65 Old 10-24-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

yes with this pr. you can do both.

Wow that's awesome. Major light cannon!

WM can I ask - which interfaces would it need to accomplish both DVI and 4k x 2k without swapping boards?

With 4 Sony slots I'm guessing you'd use 1 x DVIwHDCP board - but which other combination of 3 boards lets you get a PC desktop at 4k x 2k? Any ideas?

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post #7 of 65 Old 10-25-2009, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

(...) i am sure sony will use this pr.
for a cinema model for sure.

You are right:
Introducing the new SRX-R320 4K cinema projection system
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post #8 of 65 Old 10-25-2009, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

The extra light could be pretty useful for 3D applications too. I saw Up in 3D from a Sony 4K and it just seemed kind of drab. I would have liked to have seen it in 2D for the extra light but around here the only reasonable choices I had with digital were 3D. --Darin

And I guess the light could be used to up the sequential contrast with mods.

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post #9 of 65 Old 10-25-2009, 03:52 PM
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When looking throught the old news and news in the brochure I think it is safe to say there is some contrast development headroom in the 4K sxrd panel!

The panels are still specified at 4000:1+ as they were when 4K sxrd was first introduced. Consumer panels have gone through many iterations since then improving contrast and frame rate.

Sony has clearly focused on developing the system as in the projector, playback server and software. The pressure on developing contrast has been low to none. Brightness and lumen/watt have improved a great deal to become competitive.

I am sure safety lights can be implemented so that a 5000:1 projector performs better than a 2000:1 projector.

When TI finally shows their 4K card I think Sony could develop contrast as an advantage. To me logic says it will be difficult to keep the fill ratio up as pixels are shrunk. This should lower dlp 4K contrast with everything else the same.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #10 of 65 Old 10-27-2009, 03:57 PM
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I wonder if by using another LKRI005 card (for 4 DVI inputs) will allow a full 4k resolution by combining 4 * 2048x1080.

LKRI005:


If so, then a HD5870 card would be capable to provide such solution, just need a special software and (of course) 4k video content. Sony did a similar custom solution, but is a lot more expensive too.

[]s,
Fernando
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post #11 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 09:29 AM
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AFAIK each card only has 1 input - the other connector is a pass-through... So you need 4 such cards to pass 4k x 2k... which means every slot is full (so no DCI server at the same time....)

But I could be completely wrong!

I know for sure that you can connect 1xDVI and pass a 2k HDCP movie and have the projector up-scale to fill the panel

...but i've no idea if any PC / graphics card combo could drive video across 4x DVI outputs.... *ponder*

.....saving for my upgrade to Hidef Digital in Christmas 2002
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post #12 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 10:15 AM
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Maybe this will do?



Quote:


RED ROCKET board with Quad DVI and Dual Link HD-SDI:
Decode and debayer 4K R3D files realtime.
Hyper-accelerated transcode to any system codec. Specs to be posted upon completion of testing.
Plays full quality realtime 4K to 4K monitor or projector from DVI output (requires RED BREAKOUT BOX).
Plays full quality 2K/1080P scaled from 4K footage out the Dual Link HD-SDI from RED Rocket card.
Plays full quality 2K scaled from 4K footage realtime through system graphics card and monitor.

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post #13 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Maybe this will do?


I do not know enough about this card but what we need is a VC that has a video processor on board. Ive seen 1080i and p24 on the latest and best HTPC and it still does not look as good as stand alone player. The VCs are doing bob and weave and it looks like vertical resolution is missing. Playing movie file @ 1080p on a PC can barley get out of its own way. Are there any PCs that have the power to offer full 4k playback without any hick-ups.
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post #14 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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i hear form 3 differnt people from the show east this week
that the new sony cinema 4k pr. r 320 looks better
than the old one the 220!
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post #15 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i hear form 3 differnt people from the show east this week
that the new sony cinema 4k pr. r 320 looks better
than the old one the 220!


Can you give us any more detail Wolfgang ?

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post #16 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 05:20 PM
 
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Digital demos take center stage at ShowEast

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...b4d103d6677c27
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post #17 of 65 Old 10-28-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i hear form 3 differnt people from the show east this week
that the new sony cinema 4k pr. r 320 looks better
than the old one the 220!

Wolfgang,

Are you considering getting one of these for home use?

I'm curious about some things. Can consumers buy these for home use? If so, about how much would they be with lens? About how much would replacement 2kW bulbs cost?

It looks like these could be about 10,000 lumens with the 2kW bulbs (assuming 21,000 lumens with the 4.2kW bulbs). I'm not sure how much they could be dimmed from there but with the projectors designed to withstand the heat of 4.2kW bulbs maybe a lens iris could be installed to cut the light output some (along with hopefully improving on/off CR) with a 2kW bulb without causing any overheating problems.

I'm wondering if this projector will have any effect in the home theater market on pricing for the JVC 4k or the Meridian based on it.

Thanks,
Darin

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post #18 of 65 Old 10-29-2009, 12:22 AM
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These Sony's can be dimmed in 1% steps from 50% to 100% of lamp power output - and there is a bunch of auto-settings which can be used to control output power as lamps age etc.

For home use the heat/noise/size needs to be addressed, and forget WAF!

You need to be a commercial customer to buy one of these - but if you can afford one of these then pretending to be a commercial customer won't be a problem!

.....saving for my upgrade to Hidef Digital in Christmas 2002
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post #20 of 65 Old 10-29-2009, 11:24 PM
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Once commercial theaters start installing the new models I wonder if there will be any reasonable way that I will be able to figure out which theaters and screens have a new model Sony 4k instead of an older one in the Seattle area.

--Darin

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post #21 of 65 Old 10-30-2009, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Wolfgang,

Are you considering getting one of these for home use?

I'm curious about some things. Can consumers buy these for home use? If so, about how much would they be with lens? About how much would replacement 2kW bulbs cost?

It looks like these could be about 10,000 lumens with the 2kW bulbs (assuming 21,000 lumens with the 4.2kW bulbs). I'm not sure how much they could be dimmed from there but with the projectors designed to withstand the heat of 4.2kW bulbs maybe a lens iris could be installed to cut the light output some (along with hopefully improving on/off CR) with a 2kW bulb without causing any overheating problems.

I'm wondering if this projector will have any effect in the home theater market on pricing for the JVC 4k or the Meridian based on it.

Thanks,
Darin

i waiting for more infos before i even thing about it.
one big issue will be for me if this model will have the possiblity
to recive a 4k content and a 3d content with one single hdmi 1.4 cable.
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post #22 of 65 Old 11-02-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I do not know enough about this card but what we need is a VC that has a video processor on board. Ive seen 1080i and p24 on the latest and best HTPC and it still does not look as good as stand alone player. The VCs are doing bob and weave and it looks like vertical resolution is missing. Playing movie file @ 1080p on a PC can barley get out of its own way. Are there any PCs that have the power to offer full 4k playback without any hick-ups.

Alan,
this card is actualy an OEM card DVS Perseus,
and although it was meant for Real Time playback and encoding of JPEG2000 content in 4k, 4k HD, 2k, HD, ... resolutions.
But it is now made only for RED company, which uses it for real time playback
of their custom R3D file, and through special professional softwares.
So, the answer is no, You can't use it for anything else than for
encoding and playback of RED camera files.

Regards

Stephan
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post #23 of 65 Old 11-02-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

one big issue will be for me if this model will have the possiblity
to recive a 4k content and a 3d content with one single hdmi 1.4 cable.

At this moment the 4k can be played only from systems which have 4 dual link HD SDI connections, or 4 DVI/HDMI.

The first system I saw playing back 4K uncompressed material
(>800 MBytes/second and not Mbits),
was a DVS Clipster prototype some 4 or 5 years ago in Amsterdam,
and it used IBM T221 LCD as a 4K display.

Filmlight also showed their system Baselight 2 years ago running 4K James Bond material, on Sony 4K projector, using 8 HD-SDIs sent from 4 lkri-003 boards.

Also there are some other examples of 4k source products,
but many of them are based on some DVS OEM product,
or some similiar high end solution.

Stephan
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post #24 of 65 Old 11-02-2009, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i waiting for more infos before i even thing about it.
one big issue will be for me if this model will have the possiblity
to recive a 4k content and a 3d content with one single hdmi 1.4 cable.

SuperKontrast series 2 does that.
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post #25 of 65 Old 11-02-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

SuperKontrast series 2 does that.

Peter,
at this moment the problem is not the 4k projector, or other 4k displays , ...,
or future inputs on them (in this case new HDMI 1.4),
but the 4k source playback machines and their outputs.
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post #26 of 65 Old 11-02-2009, 09:59 PM
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How about the DoReMi 2K4 server. That has all the bandwith to do 4K.

Also 4K scalers will be out via dual hdsdi.

Scalers prototypes with the HDMI 1.4 IN/Out were also shown at ShowEast.
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post #27 of 65 Old 11-03-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan.o View Post

Alan,
this card is actualy an OEM card DVS Perseus,
and although it was meant for Real Time playback and encoding of JPEG2000 content in 4k, 4k HD, 2k, HD, ... resolutions.
But it is now made only for RED company, which uses it for real time playback
of their custom R3D file, and through special professional softwares.
So, the answer is no, You can't use it for anything else than for
encoding and playback of RED camera files.

Regards

Stephan

I'm not shure that you are totally correct.

The RED Rocket™(beta) ($4500) card linked above which you are referring to can rightly playback R3D (RED RAW) with a preset "Look" in realtime, but can also playback rendered 4K.
You don't need any expensive software as this card is specifically build as a companion to the new REDcine-X(Early Beta) editing software which you can download for free.
If I haven't misunderstood a windows version was released oct.30.
You of course need a GPU that can output 4K and maybe a breakout box between the computer and the projector.

Not ideal to use editing software for playback,
but it is early days for any readymade 4K playback solutions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

I'm not shure that you are totally correct.
The RED Rocket™(beta) ($4500) card linked above which you are referring to can rightly playback R3D (RED RAW) with a preset "Look" in realtime, but can also playback rendered 4K.
You don't need any expensive software as this card is specifically build as a companion to the new REDcine-X(Early Beta) editing software which you can download for free.
If I haven't misunderstood a windows version was released oct.30.
You of course need a GPU that can output 4K and maybe a breakout box between the computer and the projector.
Not ideal to use editing software for playback,
but it is early days for any readymade 4K playback solutions.

Since I own three RED cameras, and the above mentioned card,
I think I can make a comment here again.

This card was not built for REDCINE-X.
It was built by DVS for DVS and other OEM builders.
I have used this card before REDCINE-X with ROCKETCINE-X,
and very soon inside other postproduction systems.

In REDCINE-X software You can't open any other file format except for R3D.
So You can't use it as a cheap 4k standalone player of various file formats.
Indeed the hardware card can playback uncompressed 4K, but not from any available software at the moment. It was rebuilt to playback RED files.
Download the software and try to open DPX or TIFF file. Not working.

Also, I didn't say expencive softwares only, I said professional softwares.
The fact that early beta (alpha version) of the REDs software is free,
does not change the fact that it is meant for professionals.
Also, all other softwares and systems which will support it,
cost x0.000-x00.000$.

From Redcine You don't need GPU that outputs 4k.
The output is made through 4 hdmis or 4 DL hd-sdi directly from red rocket and its own BoB.

Also, it can't be called editing software.
It's a preview-ouput-dailes/rushes-transcoding software with very very basic editing interface.
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post #29 of 65 Old 11-03-2009, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

How about the DoReMi 2K4 server. That has all the bandwith to do 4K.
Also 4K scalers will be out via dual hdsdi.
Scalers prototypes with the HDMI 1.4 IN/Out were also shown at ShowEast.

Peter,
I hope I will receive Doremi DCP-2K4 soon for a testing,
and if it is performs well I might purchase it. So I could say here how it performs with 4K content from first hand and real world testing.
However it playbacks ONLY compressed materials (so bandwidth in that case is okay) and through multiple hd-sdis.

I have made previous comments as I have understood request/question from W.Mayer, about sending 4k through a single hdmi 1.4 cable.
And at this moment as I know, there is no available 4k player with hdmi 1.4 output.
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post #30 of 65 Old 11-03-2009, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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soon we will see first bd player that upconvert 2k to 4k and output it in 4k
via one singel hdmi 1.4.

all the new upcoming 4k lcd an plasma and 4k pr. need some material.

thats will be the first step till we will get true 4k consumer content some day.

but what is with all the guys that makes still pictures?
they need a 4k display or better a cheap consumer 4k pr.

so for stills picture the source is not any problem.

i am sure we will see very soon displays and a computer that have this 4k output
with one single cable.
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