Sköll-Prototype 3-D/4K Screening Room of the second decade of the 21st century .... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 429 Old 03-12-2010, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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In Norse mythology, Sköll (Old Norse "Treachery") is a wolf that chases the horses
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post #2 of 429 Old 03-12-2010, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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A custom designed projector lift by ElectroKinetics the high-end custom automation lift. Will have to be reduced in size if it is going to be used, there are trusses 42" appart on the sides and a beam wall distance of 49" front to back.

Not what this design shows.





The oversized lift is just one of the many hurdles being encountered early in the game.

In the 3-D department, the Frame Packing Variant necessary for the 3-D Blue-ray playback is not supported by the projector natively.

Curently the DoReMi Dimension 3-D universal convertor has too been caught by this last minute surprise that became public what 2 weeks ago?

Consequently for the development system we will have a projector , a blu-ray player and the dimension 3-D months in advance but won't be able to get it to play together until the hdmi 1.3 upgrade to include Frame packin' late June. Hopefully then we will be able to see DirecTV 3-D with the world series using the DoReMi.
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post #3 of 429 Old 03-13-2010, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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These are the RealD Post production active shutter glasses. I believe SONY uses a version of them for their consumer 3D. The pic is actually from the SONY booth.

12 pieces.
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post #4 of 429 Old 03-13-2010, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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14 spacer shown the 11 space is 20.2 inches tall.

Just the right size in depth 18". The controller unit will need a special Rack Shelf in brushed aluminum.

The 2200 modules will be made with a wider faceplate and screw holes to accommodate the rack.
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post #5 of 429 Old 03-13-2010, 05:42 PM
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Crystal Eyes 4 shutter.....

i use in the past the ce3 that was till the ce4 hit the best shutter in the world.

i have test the ce4 since some weeks and i found
some good and some weak points.

good are(compare to the ce3 that was the reference till today)

-20% more light true the eye
-better colors no colorshift the ce3 have
-mutch better cr.you can see this i a good set up
-easy to wear as much lighter
-easy to charge by usb cable

bad are

-less sensitiv about the emitter.
i solve this problem already by order a secound emitter

-the one i test have in the right shutter some
thickness error and when you see a bright high end 3d still image
as you never can hold your head 100% still you see some kind
of blur during seeing the still picture.

no way to see this bug with a runnig 3d movie but as i have 90%
still 3d pictures a problem for me.

i hope that was a exception but i will see it soon as i just got
yesterday the shipment info that 6 pieces are with ups on the way to
me.
monday i will know.
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post #6 of 429 Old 03-14-2010, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Wolfgang,

Yes I came around to the Crystal Eyes which you originally recommended, after studying the Dolby System and seeing the developers at Infitec (Germany) are not at liberty to say anything because they have a ND agreement with Dolby.

So it would have been very difficult using their system for anything other than 24fps movies. Sköll requires Blu-ray frame packing, Directv Over/Under, PS3 side by side (or is it DirecTV side by side and ps 3 over under?) well... whatever; also a Gaming 3-D PC with other downloaded HD content, a Panasonic Camcorder,[all of these via DVI in single or dual] and the DoReMi Showvault via PCIE.





Thanks for the pointer on the IR sensitivity, I will put 4 emitters then....


Let us now right away about the stills bug, please.
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post #7 of 429 Old 03-14-2010, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Thusfar I had been using Amiran Water white AR coated, 1/2" 12mm glass.

It turns out the way it was leaning in Prometheus...




it was more of a 3/4" thickness impact on the MTF [When the glass got dirty it was beginning to look like we had an ISCO in there , ;not that bad<<< just kidding] I mean even with this thick glass in front of it the image is still to die, because of the projector and Torus combo, but still could be much better.

So I contacted Kelmar which along with Goldberg Brothers make all the cinema portholes in the US. I like the Industrial Design of the Kelmar better (a bit more high tech) to redesign the Prometheus porthole.





With the new double coated LUXAR glass being much more thinner and the angle of inclination not adding any additional thickness into the equation, we have been promised a 3% brightness impact against probably 18% and much more higher MTF.

The custom order got messed up somehow so it has taken 2 months, but it should be here soon.

It is interesting that they refined what we had previously done with wood and Mica rather than using one of their own existing designs. This type of design allows frequent cleaning of the glass when you do not have a luxury of a spacious projection room to go around and clean from behind.

This glass is to be cleaned daily during the first month, weekly for the next 6 months and bi-weekly afterwards. IT IS THAT IMPORTANT.
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post #8 of 429 Old 03-14-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Wolfgang,

Yes I came around to the Crystal Eyes which you originally recommended, after studying the Dolby System and seeing the developers at Infitec (Germany) are not at liberty to say anything because they have a ND agreement with Dolby.

peter all the systems have there pro and con.

its different when you use it at home or with a very large cinema.

if i have a cinema i will use reald polarizer.
no cleaning no charge the battery no scratches and so on.

at home shutter is the best for me today and if i will get in some hours
a good ce4 than it will be fine for the time till a 4k 3d set up will
be at my home.
as than the bottleneck is may the shutter than i have to see
if i can live with the color and reflections the dolby 3d system have.
but for sure this glasses will not drop the resolution!

the boss from infitec mr. jorke visit me 2 weeks ago.
after 5 hours he was very surprised and say that he never saw such good 3d pictures in his live.
a nice big compliment for me
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post #9 of 429 Old 03-15-2010, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

the boss from infitec mr. jorke visit me 2 weeks ago.
after 5 hours he was very surprised and say that he never saw such good 3d pictures in his live.
a nice big compliment for me


Wow you had Helmut at home, and he liked your rig that much. Very Impressive!

Maybe he can tell you if the infitec/dolby wheel one projector system can do triple flash 60 too.
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post #10 of 429 Old 03-15-2010, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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When d-box depended on using dvd's I did not thought much of the system.

You need a really good image and surround sound before you take the system to the next level. Now that Blu-ray D-box is here with a grand abundance of titles, I find inexplicable the lack of traction it has received in this (the high end) forum. Fortunately this client wanted "rumble and motion" with his movies and that he'll get.

Our previous implementation of D-Box was using the platform system.


I wanted to break up the seating in two platforms but the client wanted legroom to walk around consequently we crammed 4 very heavy chairs and the metal support structure for it on top of 4 pistons. This later precluded 4 big people from enjoying the ride fully, the system starts going up and down when it does not like the load it is bearing...

Also when you do the platform system you do have a seam on the floor that is visible.

For Sköll we (the Architect Designer and I both) did not want see a contrived room-purpose rigidity ( a la Spacecraft X ready to depart) which is inevitably imparted by the high-back cinema recliners, we wanted more of a stealth or chameleonic look to the room with sleek lowback sectionals, hence the Cineak Strato sectional was selected and the d-box pistons were to be fitted inside this very complex chair system. The complexity is added because there are great many systems inside the chairs designed to support the automation features.



The backs of all the chairs will always come up during movie time, leaving the control of the leg support to the spectator.



The layout has four corner seats actuated by the 250 per leg system, and two center 3 person sofas actuated by the 440 pound per leg d-box system. These actuators also offer double the travelling height of the platform seats, the whole room is going to be jumping. Please NOTE that this is all custom, these seats were never designed to have the d-box inside of them, we are lucky that it seems it is going to work, but no confirmation ,yet.




All seat arms have large drink cup-holders in black , the material of the couches is Chocolate colored leather. For munching and what not there are 8 "plug into the cup-holders" stainless trays to be finished custom by the architect in croc hide.


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post #11 of 429 Old 03-16-2010, 06:27 PM
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i got yesterday 6 ce4 shutter from reald.

to bad all of them have the bug i describe in post number 5.
"-the one i test have in the right shutter some
thickness error and when you see a bright high end 3d still image
as you never can hold your head 100% still you see some kind
of blur during seeing the still picture."

even worse as most of the 6 have a bigger bug than the one ce4 i have for test.

i ship 5 back and only take one.
that is also not a good one but the best from all.

to bad........the ce4 is in so many ways better than a ce3 but seams they have
with this shutter thickness problems they cant solve.

not all will see this bug and complain but the good reputation christal eye have
in the past can be destroy easy.
to bad............
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post #12 of 429 Old 03-17-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Please NOTE that this is all custom, these seats were never designed to have the d-box inside of them, we are lucky that it seems it is going to work, but no confirmation ,yet.

Good work. The current offering from DBox is limited. Good to see with a little
imagination this can be worked into seating of the end users choice.
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post #13 of 429 Old 03-17-2010, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i got yesterday 6 ce4 shutter from reald.

to bad all of them have the bug i describe in post number 5.
"-the one i test have in the right shutter some
thickness error and when you see a bright high end 3d still image
as you never can hold your head 100% still you see some kind
of blur during seeing the still picture."

even worse as most of the 6 have a bigger bug than the one ce4 i have for test.

i ship 5 back and only take one.
that is also not a good one but the best from all.

to bad........the ce4 is in so many ways better than a ce3 but seams they have
with this shutter thickness problems they cant solve.

not all will see this bug and complain but the good reputation christal eye have
in the past can be destroy easy.
to bad............

Mayer it seams everything has its compromise. As much as we all try and as much as we want it there is no perfection. Cinema both commercial/home is in a better place and making strides even if baby steps.
A scary thought looking back when laser disc was the best we had and to think we paid $110 for that special edition and thought it looked great on our 27" televisions
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post #14 of 429 Old 03-17-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Sköll requires Blu-ray frame packing, Directv Over/Under, PS3 side by side (or is it DirecTV side by side and ps 3 over under?) well... whatever; also a Gaming 3-D PC with other downloaded HD content, a Panasonic Camcorder,[all of these via DVI in single or dual] and the DoReMi Showvault via PCIE.




So, Peter did you put down that grand for the Panasonic with the yet to be determined specs, features, and delivery date?
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post #15 of 429 Old 03-28-2010, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The Depth FX in combination with Lamp Adjustment continues to be the ultimate performance enhancement tool to DCI Projectors at home for individual Blu-ray playback (creating a best fit for the program transfer to projected image under room conditions), this Iphone cap shows our latest iteration of this control at Prometheus, which will be ported over.



I told you the London architects were fantastic here is one of their renderings for the screen wall systems:



Acoustically transparent screen with 5 channel quadamped Dynaudio Acoustics custom M4+ based units (that is 20 amp channels from the 30 available on the three Boz 216/2200 stacks. The Volt subs are built into the low console. The amps feeding these drivers have the optional digital parametric function.
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post #16 of 429 Old 04-15-2010, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I am building a 8 x Solid State 1 tera drives server with it's matching Rigged to the hilt 3-D gaming and Blue Ray Player. That is about $90K for 2 HTPC's.

and add to that twin $3,200 custom Cooled STB's based on Sigma Chip from Dune.

8 of these babies each 4K inside the third unit down on the right.
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post #17 of 429 Old 04-15-2010, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Theres the red Andy Wharhol painting of Lenin.



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post #18 of 429 Old 04-15-2010, 02:32 PM
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Argent, Argent Cinema, indeed:
"Argent cinema 1.jpg
Argent cinema 2.jpg"
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post #19 of 429 Old 04-19-2010, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Now with the delayed delivery date moved to next May, now I can just go 4K all the way.

Tell me this is not the coolest thing ever? This IMB?.
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post #20 of 429 Old 04-20-2010, 03:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Now the lift has been made as small as possible, the lens may need a special cutout of the structural box. You need the box to secure the projector always lands in the same place.





Now someone better move a wall or something because the ceiling joists are as shown, the projector needs a cutout of the rear wall to descend and all.


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post #21 of 429 Old 04-24-2010, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Surely the Avatar optimized Home Theater needs the biggest image possible, now that we have a fix on the projector lift position, it can be determined.

Sometimes I wonder why we go out on a limb to put together this lab, certainly the aggravation and effort coupled with the unforeseen expenses on interfaces that don't work (for example GEFEN is crap) and custom equipment costs special tooling and the debts! Its not good business in general that is for sure except for TODAY. I can confidently say now that it has been worth it; we now have the best possible platform I am convinced, and it is NOT CIH CINEMASCOPE.






So dammed potential basketball player visitors (thery are going to have to watch their heads when I increase the steps from 7 to 11, and sorry for Argent but the coffee table is going to have to go...
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post #22 of 429 Old 04-25-2010, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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post #23 of 429 Old 04-30-2010, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Skoll's first set of plans came in...











Here are Carlos Credits:

Carlos A. Puello
Architectural & Mechanical Modeler
15725 NW 52nd Ave. Apt. 304
Miami, FL 33014
ph: 305-896-5173 l ideaforma@hotmail.com
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post #24 of 429 Old 04-30-2010, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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As you can see there is a cement beam supported by a second iron beam, that I am going to lobby for it's removal so the iron beam can go up closer to the second floor.

For the most part these dimensions are actual as-built existing conditions for the house undergoing remodeling, that makes all the equipment siting the more difficult. Also you can see how the section of the back wall where the projector lift resides had to be pushed into the dish washing area.

The completion date is a year from now, the level of technical complexity makes it so that I will have to work 16 hour days to complete this on time. I have no room for dilly dolling or HARRASMENT.

Can you guys believe that someone saw the screen cap posting I made of the German version of the Wild Geese and that same night hacked into my German Amazon account and put in my EINKAUFSWAGEN basket 475 euros worht of BD's such as UP, Avatar, and 10 sexy titles like SEXY BOLLYWOOD, "girls' of the danube".


Can you believe this? 5 years after the DIONE MOON OF SATURN in BRAZIL disputed NCA breach harrasment campaign by Tweeter scandal (where they spent hundreds of thousands of stockholder money making my life miserable) Some ex Tweeter founder is still paying for this crap.

Well some of these German transfers specially of catalog titles are as good as Avatar's. Certainly DIE WIELDE GAENSEN KOMMEN IS, maybe better. So no reason to discriminate whomever....
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post #25 of 429 Old 05-04-2010, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The new projector lift gets increased again since the back wall has to be pushed back no matter what. The lense now fits.





NEW COVER PAGE -drawings set.



Some renderings, the screen is now to scale (still CinemaScope though).




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post #26 of 429 Old 05-04-2010, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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post #27 of 429 Old 05-04-2010, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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post #28 of 429 Old 05-04-2010, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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As you can see going wall to wall floor to ceiling Screen Option is going to be a PITA too.

I have to figure a way of presenting this.

The side coves are integrated air conditioning, cove lighting, art lighting, and air return.

Today we saw some mockups for these.



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post #29 of 429 Old 05-08-2010, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Since the client who co produces films had a relationship with one of Sony Pictures major producers in my mind I was already enjoying 4k.

Well. The room behind the projector has been converted into a freezer.

That and a conversion from 2k to 4k of the series 2-B projector will result in an image 15 % smaller (unacceptable).

We had a complete 4k upgrade package presentation, which would use ISCO IMAX lenses to project a wall to wall floor to ceiling image. Because of the freezer and the 200k+ change order with the big TERANEX, BORDER-LESS custom 4 way masking system (really screen manufacturers are nuts about big fat 14" 4 way masking borders, I think it is Freaking stupid if you ask me, there is NO REASON why a screen border should be bigger than 2.5 inches, NONE!!!!, an increased speaker array, well none of it got approved the system will stay 2k, and I am going to shift it to the .98 C series so that 4K Can be revisited in 3 years.



The moving of the beam up is being calculated structurally, we will try repositioning the smaller form factor projector upside down on the lift.



Proposed 4k upgrade not approved due to budget and freezer room. Monster half meter Isco lens will not be used.


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post #30 of 429 Old 05-08-2010, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Again all of this will not happen... back to the original cinema-scope design.
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