Demonstrations of KODAK Laser Projection Technology - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 45 Old 10-13-2010, 09:31 AM
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Please ask where they see their competion and what is Kodak´s advantage.

What does Kodak say about Kodak lasers vs LLE lasers
Other competitors, what is Kodak´s view on where Sony is going with lasers. Sony have their small powerful and stackable laser modules.

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post #32 of 45 Old 10-13-2010, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by warrenP View Post

Brimstone, thanks that is great. I will ask all of the above for you.

Any others?

How is Kodak reducing/eliminating speckle?

Is laser collimation (light remains focused and doesn't scatter) preserved or destroyed after speckle reduction? (If the laser light remains collimated, this should reduce light scatter and improve contrast)

Also, if the light remains collimated, does this mean the projector could be run without a lens? The use of a lens would then be solely for focusing the image at different throw distances, etc.

Thanks!
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post #33 of 45 Old 10-13-2010, 12:02 PM
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and speckle from a laser pr.is with a siver screen even worse compare to a matt screen with no gain.

but seams some people like speckle as a big hig end screen manufacturer and also others have some shining partikles at the surface that produce a similar to speckle effect with a normaly pr.without laser

i compain that since 10 years but seams consumers like this bug.
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post #34 of 45 Old 10-16-2010, 09:12 AM
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It´s now Saturday and the demo was yesterday.
How impressive was the contrast and the colors?

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post #35 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 09:16 AM
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Hey folks,

Got back this weekend from the event on Friday. I'm happy to say that lasers are the real deal. Since there is no "production" projector for viewing, I wasn't sure how far along the technology would actually be. It is ready now, Kodak is in the stages of licensing to various people and is looking for more widespread awareness and future license deals. It will be very interesting to see how this comes into the market.

I'll run back through the thread here and answer the questions I can. I was able to sign the right documents, hand over a blood sample, and give a retinal scan mapping, so I have some video of the event to share! It will take a little while to put together the video clips, and Kodak has to give their approval before I can post, but I will get them here. I'll be doing a full write up and will have everything posted as soon as I can. OK off to questions...
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post #36 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brimstone-1 View Post

If you can ask them questions,

What will be the hold time for each frame? Standard DLP is 8.3ms, but somes projectors such as the Dual Titan allow users to set the hold time from 1 to 16 ms for each frame.

Standard 8.3ms, since it uses the standard DLP tech.


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Originally Posted by Brimstone-1 View Post

Can the colors be tweaked to use the Dolby 3d passive 3d method? This would seem to be a massive advantage if possible. You wouldn't need a silver screen. With the polarisation technique + silver screen method (RealD) you can't tilt your head too far, while the Dolby 3d method avoids this disadvantage. The color refresh rate of the lasers should be really fast.

Yes it is possible to use color shifting, however that will require a second set of lasers to keep the same brightness. So you can either have a second set of lasers, doubling the associated laser costs, or roughly half the brightness.


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Originally Posted by Brimstone-1 View Post

Can DLP chips be coated with any special materials to combat speckle?

Their anti-speckle systems are not specifically disclosed.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone-1 View Post

Is there any special technology that could licensed to other companies to help image quality? For example, Mitsubishi already has a Laser DLP rear projection TV on the market. Could any of the Kodak technology help them?

Yes actually, they have divided up their intellectual property into the different systems in place, so that others can license just the pieces that work for them, such as their speckle reduction technology.
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post #37 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Please ask where they see their competion and what is Kodak´s advantage.

What does Kodak say about Kodak lasers vs LLE lasers
Other competitors, what is Kodak´s view on where Sony is going with lasers. Sony have their small powerful and stackable laser modules.

The reply to this one was that since Kodak isn't manufacturing the actual lasers, there really isn't that type of competition. They will use whichever laser manufacturer they require, as long as the laser meets specs, price, and is actually ready for delivery they are open.
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post #38 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post

How is Kodak reducing/eliminating speckle?

This is one of their major pieces of intellectual property, so they didn't do into the details of the technology. From my viewing, they really did a good job on this. I thought I could see some, but I had to be actually looking for it, trying to find it. During my more detailed writeup later, I will try to fill in more on the tech side of this - to the extent I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post

Is laser collimation (light remains focused and doesn't scatter) preserved or destroyed after speckle reduction? (If the laser light remains collimated, this should reduce light scatter and improve contrast)

Ultimately, on screen, it cannot be collimated, due to safety issues. You would have a true laser beam on screen if it was not, and anyone who looked into the projector would be off to the ER instantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post

Also, if the light remains collimated, does this mean the projector could be run without a lens? The use of a lens would then be solely for focusing the image at different throw distances, etc.

Thanks!

The technology is possible, but not practical. Basically as is above, the light has to be scattered somewhat otherwise there are serious safety issues. Part of the discussion was about the process that Kodak had to go through to get governmental approval for the tech, both environmental and safety.

From that point, they have the approvals, and are essentially the same as any other commercial theater projector. Within a few feet, don't look into the light!
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post #39 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

and speckle from a laser pr.is with a siver screen even worse compare to a matt screen with no gain.

but seams some people like speckle as a big hig end screen manufacturer and also others have some shining partikles at the surface that produce a similar to speckle effect with a normaly pr.without laser

i compain that since 10 years but seams consumers like this bug.

The speckle reduction was very effective. For 3D the image was on a silver screen, for 2D on a white screen. I know it is subjective, but to my eye speckle was a non-issue on both screens.
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post #40 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

It´s now Saturday and the demo was yesterday.
How impressive was the contrast and the colors?

Contrast and colors were excellent. They had color matched the projector to a Barco (forgot which one off hand, I'll find my notes on that later on) and to D-cinema standards, so when they did the split screen tests the colors looked very similar.

They later did a split screen plain color test (standard color boxes, no moving video material), and the laser colors definitely showed an advantage over the Barco.

On the contrast side, the laser was the visible winner - you could tell as well on the dark scenes (outside sky during the opening of Train Your Dragon was one example used) and then really tell during the few moments between demo material. The laser side was significantly darker than the Barco side for those few seconds while the server was moving from one demo to the next.

Please keep in mind I do not consider myself a video calibration expert, I am not trained in video calibration so these are my naked-eye observations. To me the difference was obvious.
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post #41 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 12:35 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions, Warren.

Converting laser light to ordinary scattered light makes sense from a safety perspective. That makes me wonder then if this conversion is done at or inside the laser lamp, as you wouldn't want the lasers burning up any components inside the projector.

Do you happen to know what wattage lasers were used in the demo?
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post #42 of 45 Old 10-18-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions, Warren.

Converting laser light to ordinary scattered light makes sense from a safety perspective. That makes me wonder then if this conversion is done at or inside the laser lamp, as you wouldn't want the lasers burning up any components inside the projector.

Do you happen to know what wattage lasers were used in the demo?

You're welcome. We are hoping to do more of this type work here at AV Science for everyone. It is great to be able to go direct to the key players to ask our questions.

It looks like the light scattering is done outside the actual laser lamp. They didn't go into the exact technical details of the internal components, for obvious reasons, but I think that is done after the light leaves the laser.

The wattage on the lasers was either 3 or 5 watts, I will need to double check on that to get the exact number, but I know was one of those.
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post #43 of 45 Old 10-19-2010, 01:39 PM
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A little off topic. Casio's laser/led hybrid projector has 24 1W laser diodes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qswgvTwoWC0

laser diode without lens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEH-j...eature=related

And what happens when they are focused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF4HG6v29UY

You can see in the video 24 spots of light, 16 on the wall, and 8 on the table. These are the factory lens already installed on the diodes. The person in the video appears to have removed the other lens thats spreads those 24 spots of light to produce a large, uniform light source.

Some interesting stuff from LPF:

http://laserpointerforums.com/f65/44...tml#post713396

It seems the light output from a laser diode is coherent, but not collimated (parallel) until a lens is installed. At close proximity to the diode, it is dangerous, but like other light sources, its power is diminished at greater distances (but still more dangerous than bulbs or leds because of the coherent light). And the power per unit area is lower.

After a collimating lens is installed on the diode, those coherent photons are now concentrated in a small area, with low divergence and high power. And of course, if multiple lasers are converged on one spot, the power is further increased.

So you can collimate a laser, producing a dangerous, concentrated point of light that travels great distances, you can also converge that light, making it even more concentrated and dangerous (which our eyes will do if a laser is shined at them), but, you can also diverge (spread) that light and produce a safer, more bulb type output.

Also a bit of info on Sony's work on red laser diode:

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2009/10/1...er- projector/

Probably read this already:

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/03/0...or-projectors/

I'm curious to know if Kodak is keeping the lasers more focused until AFTER the DLP chip in order to improve contrast. This way when black is displayed, the laser light deflected to the light trap scatters less.
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post #44 of 45 Old 10-29-2010, 01:38 PM
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Hey folks,

I have a set of videos over at Kodak right now - they need to review the videos before they will let me post them to our YouTube channel. Hopefully I'll get the go ahead soon! I believe it will be the only video footage outside of Kodak.

In the meantime, here are two pieces about the Kodak Laser event.

First, just a fun quick overview of the event: http://avscience.com/2010/10/a-day-at-kodak/

Second, a writeup on some of the tech specs of the projector: http://avscience.com/2010/10/the-kod...pecifications/
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post #45 of 45 Old 10-30-2010, 01:45 AM
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Thank you very much AND more is coming.
Perhaps later YouTube clips we will learn how the 20000:1 that is possible affects light output.
My interpretation is that laser could come pretty quickly to the home and the office after the launch in cinemas. 24-30 months from now?

Mattias Ohlson
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