Katzenberg and Cameron in a box-The future of 2-D to 3d conversion,and of HT itself . - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 07:54 PM
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How much is a Teranex setup costs? Just curious.

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post #92 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

How much is a Teranex setup costs? Just curious.

By the time you have all the components in excess of 75. It is not something for the faint of heart to sell and install I have spent a fortune and still working out the kinks with different displays, but it has a detail enhancer and an intensity enhancer that kicks the royal butt of anything IN THREE can.
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post #93 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 08:15 PM
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If the end result is actually better than Tron (which was supposedly filmed in 3D), 75k for the conversion rig is relatively dirt cheap!

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post #94 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Dude you can adjust the detail , the depth and the effects intensity on the fly or in a way that maxxes out your displays potential.

For example the movies the thin red line, Passage to India, and where the eagles dare can be played front to back with much more frontal lobe(behind the screen) 3-D balls to the walls than TRON.
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post #95 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I had to check the input on the vizio 65" to make sure it was not playing through the teranex when the movie started.
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post #96 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 09:04 PM
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I have 2 words for something that needs to go through this:
STAR. WARS.
Specifically, the "I am your father" part. The depth would be amazing.
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post #97 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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That part will probably work great, was doing that last night with the Krell pit in Forbidden Planet, what will be very very difficult for Lucas to do is the death star and other very high contrast scenes. That is were ghosting by definition gets created, some ghostbusting should help but they may just need to photoshop the ghost image frame by frame.
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post #98 of 127 Old 04-05-2011, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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OH NO MR. BILL!!!!

George Lucas says he is “very happy with the results” he has been seeing from the postproduction firm.
LAS VEGAS — Lucasfilm and Industrial Light & Magic have selected postproduction firm Prime Focus to handle the 2D-to-3D conversion of Star Wars: Episode I — The Phantom Menace, which is slated for theatrical release on Feb. 10.
The announcement was made Tuesday, confirming what for many months has been a poorly kept secret.

“It was incredibly important to me that we have the technology, the resources and the time to do this right,” George Lucas said in a statement. “I’m very happy with the results I’ve been seeing on Episode I.”

Prime Focus’ proprietary View-D 2D-to-3D process is being used to convert the film. The process was first used in early 2010 to convert Clash of the Titans. More recently, it was employed on The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

The conversion of the Star Wars film is being completed under the supervision of

Academy Award winner John Knoll, the visual effects supervisor for ILM.

“Getting really good results from stereo conversion requires a lot of attention to detail, and it is imperative that you take the time to get it right – and that’s just what we’re doing,” Knoll said. “We’re taking a different approach than you might expect. George’s vision has been to add dimension to the film in subtle ways. This isn’t a novelty conversion, with things jumping out at the audience; our goal has been to enhance the classic Star Wars theatrical experience, utilizing the latest cinematic tools and techniques.”

The process will be led at Prime Focus’ Hollywood office, and Prime Focus artists in Los Angeles, London and Mumbai are delivering shots via the company’s digital infrastructure.
Lucas is scheduled to speak Wednesday at CinemaCon during a panel that also will include James Cameron, Jeffrey Katzenberg and Chris Meledandri.

THE SAME COMPANY THAT DID CLASH- THE TERANEX version did not have the edge double beveling seen occasionally in this flick, although a way sharper rendition than the IN THREE, and some very effective scenes, need to shoot it out again to render a definitive opinion.

Their first clash conversion was pretty bad at the movies, they fixed it for the BD, but when and objects pan from the background to the foreground in the beginning of the movie inside the hall with the party you could identify that the objects were jumping 5 layers instead of a seamless pan (a la terry).
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post #99 of 127 Old 04-06-2011, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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This kind of 3d is what Lucas calls 2.2 D.


MARCH 30, 2011, 11:59 PM ET
George Lucas Says Converting Star Wars' to 3-D Has Cost More Than Original Movie

By Michelle Kung


Getty
From left, James Cameron, George Lucas and CEO of DreamWorks Animation Jeffrey Katzenberg at CinemaCon on March 30, 2011 in Las Vegas, Nev.
Directors James Cameron and George Lucas, and DreamWorks Animation Chief Executive Jeffrey Katzenberg told a packed CinemaCon ballroom Wednesday that digital filmmaking is only in its infancy. Where we are in digital is like 1900, said Lucas. We're just scratching the surface.

Lucas also said that it's cost more money so far to convert Star Wars to 3-D than it took to make the original film.

During the lunchtime panel, the three men led by moderator Michael Lewis, the chairman/chief executive of RealD took turns talking about what digital filmmaking meant to them and where they saw the format heading. Lucas, full of analogies, began by comparing digital vs. analog to oil painting vs. fresco painting, explaining that the former allowed the artist to change and evolve. He later compared the advent of digital filmmaking to the introduction of sound in film (an observation he's made before), and likened 3-D to being like the introduction of color with sound being the big transformative element, and color the enhancer.

Cameron spoke in more technical terms than his compatriots on stage, calling for the introduction of machines that can play film at 48 to 60 frames per second (the standard is currently 24 frames per second) and more brightly lit screens, to help draw in audiences. The Avatar director also (naturally) praised digital filmmaking, pointing out that his 1997 blockbuster Titanic only stopped playing after 16 weeks because the reels had gotten scratched up and unplayable a problem one doesn't have with digital.

Kazenberg, meanwhile, touted the importance of scalable multicore processing, a prototype his company is developing. The mechanism's chip is so powerful, it allows filmmakers to see and create their 3-D films in real time, as opposed to waiting on an eight-hour rendering wait.

While the three men were all fans of shooting in 3-D, they also warned against making cheap, rushed 2-D to 3-D conversions. Lucas said he's been working on his Star Wars conversion for the past eight years, at a sum that has shot past the original cost of making the movie. There's not magic wand or killer app that converts your movies for you, said Cameron, who noted that one simply can't convert a film into 3-D in five weeks; such a rush job was more like getting 2.2-D. Katzenberg added that today's audiences are savvy to shabby conversions. Bad 3-D devalues this opportunity for all of us.

The panel ended on an optimistic note. Cameron predicted that cameras are just going to get smarter, and budgets for 3-D films will go down, now that studios don't have to budget for potential digital mistakes. Katzenberg put out an alert to theater owners, recommending more theaters integrate film showings with meals so that consumers feel like they're getting a real night out when they go to the movies. Lucas concurred with Katzenberg, asking exhibitors to think up more perks they can provide, to help lure in more ticketbuyers. That's what we rely on you for, he said.
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post #100 of 127 Old 04-06-2011, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I will do an in-depth analysis why Lucas is wrong, hint it has something to do with the brain reaction study results for Clash.
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post #101 of 127 Old 04-06-2011, 05:44 AM
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At the risk of being accused of hijacking the thread, while we are on the subject of 2D to 3D conversions, I thought I'd just mention that I've got my own little 2D to 3D conversion project on the go too. I'm using the old method of frame by frame conversion and I have to admit, it is excruciatingly slow at times, but the results often make it all worthwhile and you have reasonable control over the 3D effect.

http://house-on-haunted-hill-3d.blog...ryboard-3.html

The problem with 3D and 2D to 3D conversions is that there isn't one standard for it. Some of it looks good but some of it looks awful. Personally speaking, I can't see the point of 3D if it doesn't give you that depth and wow factor. I have seen so many supposed 3D conversions with little or no depth that I think what is the point? Maybe all the 3D detractors have experienced only poor 3D or poor conversions? For my conversion I'm using House of Wax 3D as a blueprint as I really want the depth to look good and give that wow factor.

Back on topic. Cineramax, you're project looks and sounds fantastic but is there any chance of showing us a screen with a side by side image on it so we can grab it and view it in our stereoscopic viewers? People will always remain skeptical until they can see the effect themselves. I'm looking at your screengrabs and struggling to see a difference in the angles of the faces etc. On my conversions the angles between objects is noticeably different to the point where sometimes anomalies are created due to the separation differences.

Here is an anaglyph screengrab


House on Haunted Hill 3D anaglyph by CarnivalofSouls3D, on Flickr


In the side by side version, you can see the differences of angles between the objects (e.g. the man in the distance (Dr. David Trent) behind the foreground wall and also the door angle behind Lance Shroeder)

There are fuzzy anomalies too either due to a misalignment of the depth maps or just the software limitations...although in my defence, this is just one frame taken from hundreds of thousands that are being converted .

OK..back on topic again.



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post #102 of 127 Old 04-06-2011, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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"Once we get to the Grid, the 3D starts out subtly but appears to grow gradually stronger as the film progresses so that by the end of the film the sense of depth seems to extend way back to infinity and we get a wonderful shot of Clu literally trying to push his way out of the screen. And while there aren't that many instances of stuff popping out of the screen the few occurrences work really well and many scenes are composed to really showcase the sense of depth."

The same could be said of watching any blu-ray movie on a quality dimensionalisation system like one powered by doremi and teranex.


There is a side benefit when we do million dollar installations, this technology will trickle to you in 5 years. Force the studios to SHOOT in 3D and stop this, whether you find it better than 2d or not, I may not be around in five years to see it but neither will you IF YOU ARE SATISFIED with a DIMENSIONALIZED TRON.

Here is 10 Commandments in much better 3D than TRON.





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post #103 of 127 Old 04-07-2011, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
I wonder if these numbers might have been even higher if they'd chosen different 3D titles. Regardless, it's a study I can believe, because it matches my own experience while watching 3D content. I've said this here at 3D Central before - I have a physiological reaction to 3D that is different than my physiological reaction to 2D. I don't have the tools to measure it, but I know it's real. I have no doubt that future studies will be able to verify that there is indeed a quantifiable difference.
Agreed. 3D does something to my brain that 2D can't do and I crave that feeling.

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post #104 of 127 Old 04-10-2011, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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But it does not really matter how the 3d is created, WHICH IS THE MOST PUZZLING PART OF THIS. The dimensionalised content AS I ARGUE MOST OF TRON IS also changes the brain perception and thus IT IS NOT 2.2D as Lucas called it last week BUT 2.85D, and that's a lot of D.
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post #105 of 127 Old 10-14-2011, 09:12 AM
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I'm concerned that Star Wars is being converted by the same people that did Clash, and Narnia.

I thought those were terrible conversions.

Any more news on the Terranex?
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post #106 of 127 Old 10-14-2011, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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That company has gone from a crapola Clash conversion (you should have seen how bad the first iteration was) to a vastly improved Narnia, I don't find anything wrong with it. Perhaps youd care to elaborate.

Like anything the more you do something it the better you get at it.

I am sure it will be fine, meanwhile if you would like to see star wars 3 converted on the fly, contact me in a couple of weeks after showeast.
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post #107 of 127 Old 10-15-2011, 01:20 AM
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I'm concerned that Star Wars is being converted by the same people that did Clash, and Narnia.

I thought those were terrible conversions.

Any more news on the Terranex?

i saw about 5 min. of star wars in 3d and the material looks very nice i can assure you!
same for titanc.
take into account that i was very senitiv about upcon 2d to 3d as i did 3d
for over 30 years.

Peter i may found very high quality new lenses for the 4k dlp!
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post #108 of 127 Old 10-15-2011, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Hallelujah!!! What throw distance?
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post #109 of 127 Old 10-15-2011, 05:17 AM
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its so far i know 4 zoom lens very high quality and it will cover the ratio we need as well!

i will know more about it late next so you know how to contact me.

i hope i can say than "phantastisch"
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post #110 of 127 Old 10-15-2011, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Great! let me know as soon as you know.

I am leaving now to see your favorite person in NY and then on to London for comissioning the worl'ds first multiroom 2d>3d distributed system and meet with the architects of the space house, so I leave this matter on your capable hands for my return. Danke!
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post #111 of 127 Old 10-15-2011, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Eine weitere Sache: Ist es motorisiert? Ja?
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post #112 of 127 Old 10-17-2011, 07:20 AM
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peter send me a pm i have the news!
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post #113 of 127 Old 10-20-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

That company has gone from a crapola Clash conversion (you should have seen how bad the first iteration was) to a vastly improved Narnia, I don't find anything wrong with it. Perhaps youd care to elaborate.

Like anything the more you do something it the better you get at it.

I am sure it will be fine, meanwhile if you would like to see star wars 3 converted on the fly, contact me in a couple of weeks after showeast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i saw about 5 min. of star wars in 3d and the material looks very nice i can assure you!
same for titanc.
take into account that i was very senitiv about upcon 2d to 3d as i did 3d
for over 30 years.

Excellent news - I look forward to it!

Cineramax - I'll pm you again after the show to come look at that Terranex
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post #114 of 127 Old 10-25-2011, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
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The beautiful capital city got the honors of becoming the world's first multi-room distributed Teranex system. Why the processing was even applied to BBC TV with excellent results.

Here is a bit from the Observer on the building itself.The most drop dead gorgeous and best fitted building I have ever set foot on.To appreciate it's majesty you would have to see in person.

One Hyde Park - review
The best penthouse suite in One Hyde Park will reportedly set you back £140m. But is it worth it?



Rowan Moore
The Observer, Saturday 22 January 2011
Article history

London's One Hyde Park, home to the world's most expensive apartment, and the neighbouring Mandarin Oriental hotel. Photograph: Linda Nylind for the Guardian

It is a silo for oligarchs, a warehouse for sheikhs. It has grown up, like a Beckham sprog, in the glare of publicity. The prices of its flats have become, thanks to carefully planted and unverifiable news stories, the stuff of legend: £15m for three bedrooms, £140m for a 3,000sq m triplex penthouse - reportedly the most expensive apartment ever.

This is One Hyde Park, the £500m development of 86 flats in Knightsbridge, west London. It is the brainchild of Nick and Christian Candy, who were to the dizzy world of 00s property what the Gallagher brothers were to 90s music. They were stars, feted in magazine profiles, celebrated for their stylishness and wizardry.

They are now comparatively cash-lite and, although they have managed the development of the project, they do not actually own the building - it belongs to a consortium that includes the prime minister of Qatar. Instead, Candy and Candy are credited for their "exclusive interior design", a shimmering, silvery cream, leather and silk art decoish affair.

They are part of an array of brands intended to lure buyers: design by Candy and Candy, "legendary service" by the Mandarin Oriental hotel, "acclaimed art" by James Turrell, Rolex and McLaren shops, and security by the SAS or, at least, SAS-trained personnel. It is the self-declared "best project in the world" at the "world's most glamorous address".

It is planned so that residents need never put their feet on a pavement or jostle with the general public. Cars can sweep them into the complex and an underground tunnel connects to the neighbouring Mandarin Oriental hotel, enabling its exquisite room service to get to the apartments. There is a 21 metre swimming pool, spa, cinema and golf simulator. It assuages anxieties, including some you never knew you had: there are iris-recognition scanners, while an optional extra is a camera that films your back and plays it out with time delay on a mirror, so that you know you look as immaculate behind as before.


A reception room in a One Hyde Park apartment.
The project's big brands are its architects, Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners, the practice founded by Lord Rogers of Riverside. Rogers has long proselytised for the "compact city". He argues for high-density development, tempered with "good design" and "high-quality public space", leading to "vibrant" cities. He wants "cohesion". "Unless cities," he wrote, "work constantly to prevent social, racial, physical and economic divisions, their communities will fall apart and the city will not work."

In his day job, as an architect following a brief set by clients, in a climate made by economics and planners, he does not find it easy to achieve everything that, as a seer, he would wish. One Hyde Park, rising to 14 storeys on a narrow site, certainly ticks the density box. Its contribution to social cohesion is less obvious, although its developers have paid for 70 affordable homes in the posh-ish district of Pimlico, as part of the deal necessary to secure planning permission.

One Hyde Park's contribution to public space is to improve a nasty 1960s road layout that came with Bowater House, a big office block formerly on the site. There are routes to Hyde Park on either side of the site, with slightly meagre pavements. Also, in response to some scruples of the planners, some shrubberies facing the street are encased in glass. These are nice enough, a little odd, and don't amount to much, but the architects reasonably point out that they are more than most buildings in the area give to the public. They might have added that, with the 250 hectares of Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens close by, creating more open space is not the most pressing need.


The exterior of One Hyde Park: 'four blocks that are tapered and staggered in plan, which allows views forwards, to the park or across Knightsbridge, but not sideways into neighbours' flats'
The architects' greatest influence on the project comes under the heading of "good design". They have put considerable effort into shaping the new building's volume, which is twice that of Bowater House, so that it doesn't crowd and loom as much as it might. One Hyde Park is broken up into four blocks that are tapered and staggered in plan, which allows views forwards, to the park or across Knightsbridge, but not sideways into neighbours' flats. Glass lift towers are placed between each block, to make the development less fortress-like and monolithic, and allow fragments of sunlight to pierce from the south side to the north. Full-scale mock-ups were made of pieces of the building to see how this would work.

Graham Stirk, the RSHP partner in charge of the design, says that it is "highly crafted", to an extent not matched by the practice since its Lloyd's building of 1986. By this, he means the attention given to each detail and choice of material, from the pristine white concrete frame to the sharp lifts to the pre-patinated copper alloy privacy screens.

He also means that, in the tradition of modernist and arts and crafts architecture, there is nothing cosmetic: everything you see is performing a purpose, as well as trying to look good. He says that One Hyde Park's reddish and off-white colours are designed to echo but not mimic its stone and brick neighbours. Its irregular skyline is intended to be less brutal to views from Hyde Park than Bowater House, which was higher and blunter.

It is still somewhat stark, made tough by its untempered repetitiousness, but it has a quality of conception, proportion and detail that is streets ahead of almost any other new luxury apartment block. The bigger question is whether we should be outraged by this defensive enclave for the super-rich. Or that leftie architects should take modernist architecture, once seen as a tool of social progress, and use it to make such development look respectable.

Actually, I'm not outraged. This is Knightsbridge, a place long made of monuments to exclusivity, and it's better that One Hyde Park should be part of London than behind a fortified fence in some suburb, as it would be in many cities. Last week, I saw an ostentatious, two-tone Bugatti parked nearby, absurdly penile in its folds and curves, supervised by two heavies in a Porsche while its owner went shopping. It was striking, nauseous and funny, but not something to be banned. One Hyde Park is similar, with the difference that its clean-lined design is much better than the Bugatti's.

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LL
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post #115 of 127 Old 10-25-2011, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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post #116 of 127 Old 10-28-2011, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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During Showeast we had several Industry big shots come to the lab, from Florida regional movie distributors to the 2/3 of the owners of Doremi.

The regional distributors want to be able to rent our or screening room for VIP pre-screenings, maybe we get to see the content after the presentation or from the balcony. Once the Teranex adds 2k capability mid Nov, they will be able to see non encrypted 2k content upconverted to 3D. They could not believe the power of the converter.

The President of the server juggernaut put the system through it's paces, asking me to intensify and de-intensify the effect, switch the effect on and off to compare processing effect on film grain, this with a big grin much through the presentation. At the end of the sequence he jumped of the chair crossed his arms and while looking at the image from below proclaimed:"I AM IMPRESSED"!
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post #117 of 127 Old 11-08-2011, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

During Showeast we had several Industry big shots come to the lab, from Florida regional movie distributors to the 2/3 of the owners of Doremi.

The regional distributors want to be able to rent our or screening room for VIP pre-screenings, maybe we get to see the content after the presentation or from the balcony. Once the Teranex adds 2k capability mid Nov, they will be able to see non encrypted 2k content upconverted to 3D. They could not believe the power of the converter.

The President of the server juggernaut put the system through it's paces, asking me to intensify and de-intensify the effect, switch the effect on and off to compare processing effect on film grain, this with a big grin much through the presentation. At the end of the sequence he jumped of the chair crossed his arms and while looking at the image from bellow proclaimed:"I AM IMPRESSED"!

Peter, thanks again for the demo of your system this weekend. It was very impressive!

The 3D conversion from that Terranex box is simply amazing, best I've ever seen anywhere, and better than the 2D to 3D conversions one typically sees on 3D releases like Clash of the Titans.

I wish I could get one of these Terranex boxes for my home system, are they planning on doing a consumer release that supports HDMI? What is the retail price of just the Terranex alone, and the separate retail price for the Doremi format converter?

And I repeat my offer of swinging by my neck of the woods whenever you get the chance, to see my little home built system for comparison. Open offer, just give me a call.
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post #118 of 127 Old 11-08-2011, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Rd, It was great having two fellow 3d-philes over.

You know I laugh because I had a demo for Mike Chaffee (Mr. Walking Audio Calibration) last night and I keep forgetting to play some real 3D during these demoes. I do have all the 3d blu-rays and some impressive DCI 3d clips and trailers, but the star of the show is the Terry.

I too notice deficiencies on a bunch of German 3D titles which are obviously converted with pc's, you can tell by the occasional occlusion errors and the lack of convincing topography.

Yes, I will take you up on the invite as soon as I finish these current batch of projects which are coming due in the next few weeks.

list price on the terry vc-110 is like 41 with the aes 16 channel out delay option. I will dig up the additional parts kit.
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post #119 of 127 Old 11-08-2011, 03:41 PM
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Cineramax,

Is there anyplace/way we normal people can experience these "on the fly" 3d conversions? Been reading alot of 3d threads here and you always claim your system will blow people away! Eager to see this!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #120 of 127 Old 11-08-2011, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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High Kevin, Just plan a visit to Miami, I can show you.

It is a 4k Barco projector with a 4kw lamp, a fixed .92 (non zoom lens) , a RealD Polarizer (i believe the only one installed in a non cinema non post setting, and a 17 foot wide 2.2 gain screen. We use volfoni passive glasses that are super lightweight and you quickly forget wearing them.

We have Dolby Server cinema content 3-D clips, Blu-ray Player 3-D but the real showstopper is the conversion system.
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