Recommendation for a 4k PJ for a 6m wide rear-projection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 09-02-2011, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
amazing to see 4k setup's appearing in home cinema's - and I still have to live with my BG808 A shame there is not too much source material available in that resolution for you to enjoy. At work I'm involved in the selection of a 4k projector for a 6m-wide rear projection on a coated glass screen via a mirror (building layout demands this) driven by an NVIDIA Quadro Plex workstation (4 DVI channels) for simulation i.e. no cinema content. I know this is slightly OT but maybe you've some recommendations on the PJ.

What are the Pro's/Con's between the TI based 4k DLP's (Barco / Christie) and the LCOS based ones (Sony SRX-T420) in terms of:
- color accuracy to support a color calibrated workflow
- color stability, convergence drifts, etc. over longer time (which would require re-calibration)
- lamp lifetime and cost/complexity of replacement (i.e. PJ downtime)
- ease-of-use (no dedicated tech planned to run the PJ)


Thanks,
Martin

cheers, trinitron |||
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post #2 of 31 Old 09-02-2011, 08:22 AM
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There is only one option: Home Cinema Optimized Barco 4K, do not waste your time looking at anything else. Resistance is futile.
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post #3 of 31 Old 09-02-2011, 09:04 AM
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Have a look at our Simulation Division projectors. What you are working on is quite common for us. http://www.barco.com/en/virtualreality/references/

Here is a 4K Simulation unit: http://www.barco.com/en/product/1904/specs

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As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #4 of 31 Old 09-02-2011, 09:22 AM
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Ah the trusty ol' JVC LCoS engine unit. Any improvements/updates in the past four years? JVC introduced a second projector, new LCoS chips a year or two ago, if memory serves me right.

Of course there has been, couln't find the LX-10, but it was in the SIM series: http://www.barco.com/projection_syst...ro_sim10_m.pdf.

This reference is about six meters, judging by the picture: http://www.barco.com/en/reference/3839

For 3D this one wouldn't be overpowered, as the LCoS has to use two 4500 lumens units. http://www.barco.com/en/product/2442
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post #5 of 31 Old 09-02-2011, 09:27 AM
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LCoS units work wonders for us. It is a matter of using the proper technology for the proper application. Many of our simulation units use them, they have a super contrast level required for nigh vision simulation.

Still, our Digital Cinema units did migrate to our Simulation division (stereoscopic) with some tweaks.

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #6 of 31 Old 09-02-2011, 09:31 AM
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Yeah, even a fraction of that marketed 10 million to one is great. Added the SIM 10 for that reason. It looks like they all use the same xenon lamps, so no large differences are to be expected there, Trinitron.
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post #7 of 31 Old 09-03-2011, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

There is only one option: Home Cinema Optimized Barco 4K, do not waste your time looking at anything else. Resistance is futile.

oh yes i agree

only one poind is that the 4k have a slightly lees good cr. but i think
that is compare to all the things he can do better than everything else on the market and how future prove this pr. is a no issue.
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post #8 of 31 Old 09-03-2011, 06:24 AM
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post #9 of 31 Old 09-03-2011, 08:41 AM
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Do they integrate with XDS, and similar collaboration software?
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post #10 of 31 Old 09-06-2011, 01:24 PM
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Hi Peter,

Can you please give more info on this set up? what screen are you using? I assume its a passive system, thus you are using silver 4k screen? How is the image look on the silver screen? I've heard a lot of hot spotting comparing to a normal white screen and what about the 2d images on this silver screen. I hope with this set up you don't have to invest in two different screens (that could be very expensive!). thanks
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post #11 of 31 Old 09-07-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post
LCoS units work wonders for us. It is a matter of using the proper technology for the proper application. Many of our simulation units use them, they have a super contrast level required for nigh vision simulation.

Still, our Digital Cinema units did migrate to our Simulation division (stereoscopic) with some tweaks.
6mil to 1 contrast on some of your simulation projectors ( lcos ), very nice. Much higher then the best HT projector whose environment usually benefits from the higher on/off verses most commercial settings. Regardless how good we have it the HT market and its specs are still in its infancy after seeing this, plenty of room for improvement. I realize it comes down to cost for this improvement but at least higher on/off is a reality.
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post #12 of 31 Old 09-08-2011, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

only one poind is that the 4k have a slightly lees good cr.

@W.Mayer - what did you mean with 'cr' ?

@all, thanks for all the other comments,
the SIM-10 was not on my radar yet, probably because we specified we need a brightness greater than 12.000 lumen. Not sure though we need all that light; the old installation uses two blended Christie S4 DLP with 4.000 lumen ea. and is quite dim. Any comments on that ?
Interesting that everybody recommends Barco, btw. we will visit Barco in Belgium the next days and will check what they have on offer. The other offerings we will check are the Sony SRX-T420 and a model from Christie.

Will keep you posted

cheers, trinitron |||
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post #13 of 31 Old 09-08-2011, 02:09 AM
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Die Sony SRX-T420 ist schlecht.

Christie 4k is good.
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post #14 of 31 Old 09-08-2011, 05:10 PM
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Alan, Peter indicated several times this high contrast technology is coming to the DCi platform, as an option, probably somewhere in 2012.

BTW, saw the 'JVC compact SHV projector', it was just sitting on a shelf. I also saw two units of the Sharp 85" Super Hi-Vision (8K) LCDs. One was still switched off, the other was showing a low rez set of test bars and simple coarse text saying London, was the production desk for the multi-city demo this week-end.

Haven't checked the Christie 'largest line up' release yet, but it will probably be on show, again.

Trinitron it is Wolfgangs shorthand for Contrast Ratio.
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post #15 of 31 Old 09-08-2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Alan, Peter indicated several times this high contrast technology is coming to the DCi platform, as an option, probably somewhere in 2012.

Something to look forward to.
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post #16 of 31 Old 09-13-2011, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Small update: we visited Barco in Belgium and reviewed their Galaxy 4K-23 pj in two different configurations. The first one in the VR/Sim dept. (not officially on market yet) was projecting on a ~4m wide tinted glass rear projection screen, driven by a PC over 2 x DVI single-links at 2k@24 Hz ea. (pj @ 144 Hz) - the contrast ratio and colors looked pretty good (not sure though the 23k lumen will be enough for our 6m screen). We had some concerns on the image stability and flicker when feeding in a 24 Hz signal from a simulation PC so they showed us some film material in their demo cinema on another 4k-23 unit for the DCI market (~8m screen) - the source was a DCI server and the material was RED demo and some film material (so I assume part or all of it was 4k native). Overall quite impressive.

The noise level of the pj was okay standing next to it - is the Sony LCOS so much louder as I was told ?
Next days we will review the Christie unit

cheers, trinitron |||
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post #17 of 31 Old 09-13-2011, 08:21 AM
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At IBC Christie was showing the 4 something 35, with 35K lumens, rear screen was not even 6 meters wide, probably more like 4 meters wide, the light was needed though.

Christie has a demofacility?
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post #18 of 31 Old 09-14-2011, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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No, we will review it at a system integrator facility together with the Sony 420 (the Christie demo unit will be shipped to him directly from IBC Amsterdam I believe).

cheers, trinitron |||
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post #19 of 31 Old 09-14-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinitron View Post

@W.Mayer - what did you mean with 'cr' ?

"cr" is contrast ratio
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post #20 of 31 Old 10-04-2011, 06:36 AM
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Hi , you would need to do a daily dual or something IF YOU MUST watch 2d. I tell you because I had a visitor who manufactures white acoustically transparent screens.

I told him that this system makes 2-D completely obsolete, using the Teranex configured for minimum ghosting with the realD.

In the beginning 2 minutes he was all over not as much the hotspot but the slight grain slightly noticeable within the hotspot and said the 3d effect is not that strong (perhaps expecting pop up effects), I told him stop looking for stuff coming out the screen and observe instead the parallax geometry, after 5 minutes he started ignoring the small grain and the minor hotspot (this is a 2.2) and saying wow a lot. I kept asking him all along better than 2d? he did agree I caught his afterthoughts in a youtube for later posting. This is someone whose primaries business interests are opposite to a silver screen polarized solution and who essentially says non of his customers do 3d yet said this is the best image he has ever seen.

Like I said 2d is so dead it ain't even funny...
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post #21 of 31 Old 10-19-2011, 07:28 AM
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Hi Martin,

I am just curious, what is the conclusion of your research?

Thank you,

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #22 of 31 Old 07-30-2012, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Marc,
sorry for the late reply but this project was on-hold due to delays in the construction of the building which houses the facility (and I didn’t log into AVSforum for quite some time).

After reviewing the 4k Sony LCOS, Barco and Christie DLP offerings we ordered a solution based on the Christie D4K35 projector and a Stewart glass screen. Once dropping the Sony from the list the reason for the Christie selection was a mixed bag of cost advantages for the total installation, contractual details and system integrator experience – on the technical side we’ve seen both projectors basically on par with minor pro’s / con’s on each side. Installation is currently on-going

Btw. does someone know where to find 4k material ?

cheers, trinitron |||
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post #23 of 31 Old 07-30-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinitron View Post

Btw. does someone know where to find 4k material ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2084665/New-Blu-Ray-discs-offering-times-hi-def-2013.html

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post #24 of 31 Old 07-31-2012, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by trinitron View Post

does someone know where to find 4k material ?

The first and Only edited commercial available 4K project is the nature documentary "Timescapes".
Available in one compressed 4K 31 Gigabyte mp4, with a bit rate of 80 Mbits at 4096 x 2304 pixels edition, and one "uncompressed" 4K 330GB Gigabyte Movie in the Cineform codec, at 4096 x 2304 pixels edition.

http://timescapes.org/products/default.aspx
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post #25 of 31 Old 08-03-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinitron View Post

Btw. does someone know where to find 4k material ?

Wait until around 2020, then move somewhere in the world with ota|cable|ip TV broadcasting in 4k2k or 8k4k . . . or maybe just stay where you are; EBU countries will probably get SHV TV before US|Canada! However, as HBO will probably be shooting Game Of Thrones Season 14 in 4k2k for same resolution broadcast in the Japanese market, they will probably want to sell BD4k2k discs there too . . . which suggests world wide availability of 4k2k content in some form by that date...?!

On 8/3/2012, Advanced Television com reported that "NHK brings forward Ultra-HD start date" (link).
Quote:
"Japan’s public broadcaster is targeting to start test transmissions of its advanced Ultra-HDTV format by 2016, some four years earlier than originally planned. NHK’s director general for engineering, Dr Keiichi Kubota, delivered the news at a London demonstration of Super-HDTV held at London’s Olympic Park."
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post #26 of 31 Old 08-15-2012, 07:07 PM
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Barco and Christie are good choices, congrat on the move!

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #27 of 31 Old 08-30-2012, 10:57 AM
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I do think this one also would fit the ticket:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394036/red-4k-3d-laser-projector-10k
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post #28 of 31 Old 08-30-2012, 12:51 PM
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For a .6 m screen not a 6 meter screen;-).
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post #29 of 31 Old 09-01-2012, 03:35 AM
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According to the first articles you are correct. But I believe the screen size for this unit should read 15'. Still not 6m but Red talks about upgrade options that will easily fit any home theater screen size.
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post #30 of 31 Old 09-01-2012, 05:10 PM
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It still would not fit the the ticket as in 'unavailable', the Christie has allready been installed.
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