Barco to Present Giant Screen 4K 3D Laser Projection Demo - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Barco and D3D Cinema to Present Giant Screen 4K 3D Laser Projection Demo at 2nd Annual Moody Digital Cinema Symposium

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The event will score a series of noteworthy milestones in the digital cinema revolution, including:

-- The FIRST demonstration of Barco's revolutionary laser light engine on a giant screen

-- The FIRST demonstration of true DLP 4K resolution 3D on a giant screen

-- The FIRST 4K 3D comparison of 'ultra-reality' 48 frame/sec & 60 frame/sec content

-- The FIRST giant 3D 500 mbps comparison, nearly double the current cinema bit rate standard

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post #2 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 09:06 AM
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Nice find and very cool but not another demo. I wish someone would announce a real product ready for delivery, that would be exciting.
So far HDI, Kodak, Red and a few others ( Sony, JVC ) all have demos. Who will be the first to bring a finished product to market. I think we are still a few years away from being able to purchase anything from ether of these manufactures.
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post #3 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 11:00 AM
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the best is that this is very likely a upgrade just remove the lamp house
and put the new inside.

alan i think this is very close not one more time a demo and for years no product.
i think you can purchase this in less than 12 months.

same i think for the new input boards that can deal with 4k and 48 and 60 frame......
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post #4 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

the best is that this is very likely a upgrade just remove the lamp house
and put the new inside.

alan i think this is very close not one more time a demo and for years no product.
i think you can purchase this in less than 12 months.

same i think for the new input boards that can deal with 4k and 48 and 60 frame......

So this is just a light source then. If so would it be R/G/B or a single white point. Very nice ether way. I wonder if my DP2K-12C would be a contender for this retrofit.
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post #5 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

the best is that this is very likely a upgrade just remove the lamp house
and put the new inside.

alan i think this is very close not one more time a demo and for years no product.
i think you can purchase this in less than 12 months.

same i think for the new input boards that can deal with 4k and 48 and 60 frame......

Well, Peter indicated that was one of the principle differences with the Kodak approach, and that if people were willing to pay 600K per unit, it could be available very quickly. Price reduction being worked on. So, will it be included in one of Barco's two major framework agreements, to get volume...
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post #6 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 02:26 AM
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it will be take a bit longer that i have post.
1-2 years i guess is more realistic.

also not 100% sure it can be a upgrade but i guess yes it
will be possible to upgrade S2 2K and 4K dlps from barco.
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post #7 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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In the original link for this thread it says;

Quote:


"Barco has approached the laser lamp house design to be fully modular so that all of their current 4K projectors may be upgraded simply and easily. And no more xenon lamp costs!"

Barco demonstrated "proof of concept" already in February. Here's a report from one who attended. Seems like he liked this better than the Kodak solution;Barco Gives Sneak Peak Of Laser Projector and Auro 3D, February 2011

This seems to be a project under the umbrella of OSIRIS (Original System for Image Rendition via Innovative Screens).
Where Barco is responsible for the optical engine of the projector and the lasers are provided by Osram Opto Semiconductors (Regensburg - Germany) and Oxxius (Lannion - France).

More info from this PDF from 2009; Future prospects of high-end laser projectors - Osiris Project
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post #8 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 09:38 AM
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We had a great report here on the forum from Kodaks presentation of their laser light engine.
Just adding laser as a light source adds mostly to the cost with some benefits.
The cost reductions are possible with a from the ground up laser projector. Kodak showed a picture comparing the size of the lens assembly for a current D-cinema projector and the size using the benefits of going laser. The lens system for the laser projector was tiny in comparison

Realistically we have laser D-cinema projector within two years.

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post #9 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^^
Seems like Barco disagrees with you that the Kodak design is good enough. From the link in my previous post:

Quote:


Your author spent about an hour afterwards with Peter Gerets, Director of Barco’s Technology Center for New Display Technologies.

Peter says that laser projector design is full of tradeoffs.
It was obvious in our discussion that the tradeoffs made in the Kodak laser design were not acceptable to his group.

But their research into what is acceptable is, in part, what led to the Los Angeles demonstration. (The primary reason, given that CinemaCon was 7 weeks away, was to ward off any announcements from competition about laser projectors.)

Interestingly, the metamerism problem that plagues the Kodak design was not apparent in the Barco design.
Peter acknowledged the metamerism problem, but didn’t go into detail about how they addressed it.


One of the promises of laser light sources promoted by Kodak is the efficiency that can result for polarized 3-D. Instead of using a RealD Z-screen®, Kodak demonstrated the electrical switch of polarity in the lasers themselves.
Such designs require the optics to properly manage coherent light.
Peter disagreed that this was a good design idea.


He also did not like fiber-coupling of light to the projector, as he says it leads to significant light loss and there are better designs that are more efficient.

Notably, he also was not convinced that the savings in optics promoted by Kodak were realistic.

Such strong positions further indicate the degree of research that Barco has undertaken. So it with some credibility that Barco plans to introduce a retrofit kit once their laser technology is available.

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post #10 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 10:50 AM
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ok, I got to read about where Barco were with lasers in february. It seems tbings are moving on with some speed with the demo Barco is about to host

fibre coupling lasers costs in coherency so I guess Barco aims to place the laser source in the projector.

I don´t mind Barco upping Kodak. I only hope they can reach Kodaks contrast levels.

W.Mayer
Perhaps you could hear with Barco what kind of contrast specs they are shooting for ballparkwise.

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post #11 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 11:44 AM
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"In the original link for this thread it says;
"Barco has approached the laser lamp house design to be fully modular so that all of their current 4K projectors may be upgraded simply and easily. And no more xenon lamp costs!"

yes and my info was a bit different and they say "may be"!
its not the first time that some companys say or better promise more than a other company.
some times the one that are very optimistic later have to say because of this and that we cant do it.
the other company say than " we never told it will work for sure but we had try it very hard"

some call it bad or good marketing.

as red also will have early november a big news about ther laser pr. mattias dream becomes true
soon i think.
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post #12 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

as red also will have early november a big news about ther laser pr. mattias dream becomes true
soon i think.

The RED announcement November 3 is solely about the new specs and release date for the SCARLET camera, not the laser projector.

Arranged by RED to coincide with the big announcement event of a new Canon camera in Hollywood, just to be a little "teasingly devilish".
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post #13 of 49 Old 09-24-2011, 01:48 AM
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Sony builds D-cinema projectors.
Sony has stackable lasers, announced last year.
Sony is now capable of making a 0.74 inch panel with 4k, "quad HD", resolution.

Can we expect Sony to demonstrate a new laser projector at 8k? The panels needed would only be slightly bigger than the ones they are using today.Sony did make an uber glv laser projector for a world expo but I am speculating about a D-cinema unit. Getting rid of the xenen heat could make keeping uniformity easier with easier cooling of the panels.

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post #14 of 49 Old 09-24-2011, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post


I don´t mind Barco upping Kodak. I only hope they can reach Kodaks contrast levels.

Shut up already!

Thanks Coolscan, time to book again for Moody Gardens and up the budget for system Europa.

It will be interesting to sit in the front row (about 20 feet from the 80 foot wide) and assess speckling in green.
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post #15 of 49 Old 09-24-2011, 03:38 AM
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Yeah the laser in the lamphouse upgrade will be great.
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post #16 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 05:55 AM
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They better get cranking, RED got inspired by an earlier Laser Barco at a proto demo.

Now comes RED projector for Home Cinema and ALL.



RED teases 4K 3D laser projector

Chris Davies, Sep 22nd 2011 Discuss [0]


Worth Reading?


+4 [4 votes]

RED is best known for its super-high-resolution cameras, capable of making both eyes and wallets weep, but the company has revealed it now has a home 4K projector in the pipeline. Arch teasemeister (and RED CEO) Jim Jannard took to the company's forums to share the glowing first-impressions from Element Technica co-founder Stephen Pizzo experience with RED's new laser projector, subsequently confirming that this [projector] is on our roadmap.




After watching a demo of RED's laser projector I've been struggling to find a way to describe it. Comparing it to traditional professional systems is completely inadequate. I have never witnessed 3D that was as bright or brighter as the best 2D projections until now. It generated the best color, best dynamic range and best images I have ever seen in 3D or even 2D. When I learned we were watching at 1/4 of its total resolution I was speechless.

It was so clean and so vibrant the only thing I can compare it to is Cibachrome. That's it, a giant moving Cibachrome! Stephen Pizzo, Element Technica co-founder; now partner of 3ality Technica

Later, the exec confirmed that the new RED model is targeted at home users as well as theater use, and that the release date - although not yet public - is expected to be sooner rather than later. Technical details of the projector are unclear, though the fact that it relies on a laser system (rather than one of Texas Instruments' 4K DLP chips) is obvious.

It's also using a passive 3D system - more details on the difference between passive and active 3D in our SlashGear 101 guide - but seemingly has sufficient brightness so that one of the common complaints of the technology, that it dims the picture, is no longer an issue. Jannard leaves us wanting with his final word on resolution: we can easily see the difference between 1080P and 4K delivery on a 10′ diagonal screen. On a 40′ screen it is hugely significant.

[via This is my next]


BY THE WAY 3D ENTHUSIASTS THE FURE OF 3D is passive it is a good thinbg we have one of the most modern passive 3d 4k laboratories with RealD. We are exited about a slew of new videophile grade silver screen opportunities, we are experimenting with dealing with hotspot elimination, active ghost reduction (real cool solution using internal barco feature), and speckling minimization (lots of trial and error). Passive Polarized IS THE FUTURE.
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post #17 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 09:28 AM
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Do you expect Barco to hit five figure sequential contrast?

What do you think RED is experimenting with if they are not using dlp chips?

Mattias Ohlson
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post #18 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 09:30 AM
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In one of the other threads on this one, there was some discussion, about what he said about DLP, and it was concluded that he didn't say it wasn't using DLP.
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post #19 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 11:28 AM
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donaldk
But as I understand the talk RED is not using dlp for sure or what do you think?

CINERMAX
Barco saying there is not so much cost savings in lenses might be talking up their approach and not that of the competitor.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #20 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 11:49 AM
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when Kodak make the first dlp laser demo early this year this unit have
around 10:000:1 cr.

it seems that the red is not a dlp with laser.
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post #21 of 49 Old 10-03-2011, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

the best is that this is very likely a upgrade just remove the lamp house
and put the new inside.

alan i think this is very close not one more time a demo and for years no product.
i think you can purchase this in less than 12 months.

"Marketable" laser technology is based on 2 criteria:

Health agency approval. Right now, powerful laser projectors are not allowed due to security risks to the operator and/or audience.

Laser cost and longevity. Laser are still to expensive and do not last long. If you have the $$ we can build you one any time...


Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

same i think for the new input boards that can deal with 4k and 48 and 60 frame......

The Frame rate accepted by the input boards, all of then NEC Christie Barco and Sony, already accepts HFR. They meet the SMPTE 292M stadard:

The SMPTE 292M standard is a nominally 1.5 Gbit/s interface. Two exact bitrates are defined; 1.485 Gbit/s, and 1.485/1.001 Gbit/s. The factor of 1/1.001 is provided to allow SMPTE 292M to support video formats with frame rates of 59.94 Hz, 29.97 Hz, and 23.98 Hz, in order to be upwards compatible with existing NTSC systems. The 1.485 Gbit/s version of the standard supports other frame rates in widespread use, including 60 Hz, 50 Hz, 30 Hz, 25 Hz, and 24 Hz.

2 weeks ago, at the http://www.giantscreencinema.com/ presentation, we wowed the audience with a surprise demo of 3D 4K HFR solution shown in split screen! RED studio provided the media. It was just awesome i was told, I could not attend.

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

So this is just a light source then. If so would it be R/G/B or a single white point. Very nice ether way. I wonder if my DP2K-12C would be a contender for this retrofit.

The 12C being air cooled may not be suitable for laser.

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

ok, I got to read about where Barco were with lasers in february. It seems tbings are moving on with some speed with the demo Barco is about to host

fibre coupling lasers costs in coherency so I guess Barco aims to place the laser source in the projector.

I don´t mind Barco upping Kodak. I only hope they can reach Kodaks contrast levels.

W.Mayer
Perhaps you could hear with Barco what kind of contrast specs they are shooting for ballparkwise.

We tackle specs one at a time. Contrast is the least of our worries since it is very easy to achieve with laser. De-speckling is the most important issue to tackle and it was the focus of our February demo. We showed we could do it no problem.

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #24 of 49 Old 10-03-2011, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

"In the original link for this thread it says;
"Barco has approached the laser lamp house design to be fully modular so that all of their current 4K projectors may be upgraded simply and easily. And no more xenon lamp costs!"

yes and my info was a bit different and they say "may be"!
its not the first time that some companys say or better promise more than a other company.
some times the one that are very optimistic later have to say because of this and that we cant do it.
the other company say than " we never told it will work for sure but we had try it very hard"

some call it bad or good marketing.

as red also will have early november a big news about ther laser pr. mattias dream becomes true
soon i think.

I dare you find anything we had promised not being delivered as such. We base our pride on this. Not like others...

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #25 of 49 Old 10-03-2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

donaldk
But as I understand the talk RED is not using dlp for sure or what do you think?

CINERMAX
Barco saying there is not so much cost savings in lenses might be talking up their approach and not that of the competitor.

In the RED forum you can see all the fuss about their projector. It does seems like they are not using DLP. Speculations even go as far as saying they may be using their own chip. I think this is quite possible. They have the power to develop it internally for certain. http://reduser.net/forum/showthread....D-Projector...

Marc Porlier

As of Jan 2012 I no longer work for Barco. So my comments do not represent the views of my former employer but only my own.

Sincerely
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post #26 of 49 Old 10-03-2011, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I find it strange that everybody seems to conclude that the RED Laser projector is not using DLP.

That "rumour" is based on this one post in that thread, and nothing else; Which I find rather thin on facts, to put it mildly.
Quote:
Jannard

Not.

Jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar Al-Masab
I guess RED is using a 2k DLP chip now and waiting for Texas instruments 4k chips to become more readily available and options. maybe in the CES 2012

This is the only post where anybody from RED answering anything that can be "remotely interpreted" as to have anything to do with DLP.
I rather believe that Jannard is answering the suggestion that they make a 2K projector first.

Whether RED will build around DLP or Lcos or have something else up their sleeve, nobody knows.
But they did have a Barco 2K Laser projector demo at RED studio for several film makers not so very long before their "announcement" of the RED Laser projector roadmap.
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post #27 of 49 Old 12-06-2011, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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post #28 of 49 Old 12-25-2011, 04:26 AM
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Schedule Highlights
January 8
Welcome Reception
7:30 p.m.

January 9
The Business of Giant Screen Digital Panel

Laser Projector Demos
Running all day by group

Auro-3D Demos
Various times by group

4K 3D Film Screenings
Various times by group

Barco's Famous Belgian Beer (& Wine) Bash
8:00 p.m.

January 10
Keynote TBA

Laser Projector Demos (Cont'd)
Running all day by group

4K 3D Film Screenings
Various times by group

4k digital vs. 15/70 Film Shootout (in 4:3 aspect ratio)

Symposium Ends
6:00 p.m.
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post #29 of 49 Old 12-26-2011, 05:51 AM
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for all that go take a close look at the speckle this set up will may show and report about it here.

also important is the 70mm to 4k digital compare.
there you should ask if its a scan from 70mm or a true 4k digital recording and if yes what camera?

i hope it will be a 4k true and only digital recording as film even scann at
8k from a 70mm copy will be likely not as good as perfect 4k digital production
if the system is a good one.
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post #30 of 49 Old 12-26-2011, 07:58 AM
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Hi Wolfgang,

This is the largest Imax screen in the usa, there is a 22 feet (6.7 meter) Kluft separating the screen to the audience, from what I saw at RED the speclking will not be noticeable at that distance.

There is chatter of more that one laser projector at the event, maybe RED?

The 4K content is most likely from RED. They probably will show the LAST REEF too in 3D.
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