DCI. Here I come... Ready or Not! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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DCI. Just three small letters, yet they are very powerful.

My first introduction to a DCI projector was from Peter (Cinermax) at the 2009 Cedia in Atlanta. At that time he was demoing a Barco 2K projector with a 2D image. That one booth and demo became my Holy Grail of sorts. It combined with Ruben's SMX screen was by far the very best demo of the show. In the days and then months that followed, i really started to pay attention to Peter's work. Ground-breaking does not begin to describe it. He seems more like a mad scientist always striving for his one absolute perfect creation! i.e. Frankenstein, which does strike a close resemblance to a Barco projector when its all hooked up!

I would follow his projects and vicariously live through them. Always imagining what it would be like to live in some of the houses he had worked and to experience what was always the most cutting edge home theater experience.

The months past, and quickly to say the least. (Time continues to speed up as I age, its weird how that happens.) Before I knew it Cedia 2010 was upon me and it was back in Atlanta. This year Peter was touting the very best 3D experience possible. As he continued to post pictures of the booth, and press releases, I knew I would not be able to pass up the chance to experience it for myself.

So I hit the trade floor as soon as the door opened on the first day. I knew I was in pursuit of Peter's demo, but wanted to see all of the other goodies too. Before I knew it the morning had quickly pasted into late afternoon, and I had not come to Peter's booth yet. As I made my way to the back corner of the trade floor, I walk up to this very unassuming booth of almost solid red and black. The only way I really knew what treasures were hidden inside, was a smaller SMX screen mounted on the outside of the booth and a small little green light shining from the back of this huge black grill, which proudly displayed the Barco name. You certainly didn't have to put your ear up to it to see if it was running, and it certainly could double as a space heater if your heater were to break down in the middle of winter.

As everyone entered the booth, there was no doubt we were in for a treat. The screen was 16' wide, the projector was the size of a baby elephant, and each seat had a pair of RealD CE4 glasses. Needless to say, Peter delivered, and he delivered in a big way. It was by far the best 3D performance of the show, and to this day, it is still one of the best demos I have ever experienced.

While I was at the show, I also spent a considerable amount of time at Digital Projection's GIGANTIC booth. It was incredible. I am a DPI fan without questions, and after I laid eyes on the Titan Reference 3D projector they were demoing, I knew that would find its way into my home. It is a fantastic projector and has served me well since I received it in April, almost two years ago. At the time, from a cost stand point, the picture quality, the light output, and the overall physical size, it was the obvious choice for my home theater. Even just last week, I watched Hugo for the first time ever, and I was just blown away. After having a 3D projector for a couple years, I have found myself watching less and less. But when this movie came out, everyone said, watch this movie in 3D. I would say it is the very best 3D movie I have ever seen, but it was a little lacking in the action department, so I will continue to give the number 1 spot to Avatar. But this would most certainly be tied with Avatar based solely on the use of 3D.

About a month ago, me and Alan Gouger started talking about DCI projectors on the forum, he too had made the transition to a DCI unit and said that he could never go back to a consumer unit. Since the release of Barco's new 4K units, and the overwhelming response of 4K units both for DCI and Sony's consumer machine, we realized that the only logical choice when considering a DCI projector purchase today, would be with a 4K unit. I can not remember the last time I lost sleep over a purchase of AV equipment, but this was one of those moments. There are so many "what ifs" that run through my head every night, not because I doubt the performance level, but more concerned about what it will take to operate this beast. From the PC control software, to the 3Dimension piece, to the DVI and HS-SDI connections, everything is completely new and unknown. I feel like a novice again, and with a purchase this large, it can be unnerving. But Alan has done a terrific job keeping my mind at piece.

After about a week of talking on the forum and through lengthy phone calls, he said I should come by his place and see his unit. Granted I already knew how great these units were, from seeing Peter's setups, but yet I still had not gotten to see one installed in a residence. Even though we both live in Florida, there is still a good 6 hours or so between us. But as luck would have it, I found myself headed to Tampa for something completely unrelated. Alan once again offered for me to come see his place. I only had a limited amount of time, but I was able to spend about an hour with him, and when I left I realized Peter had nailed it. The Barco unit, when modified, is by far the best projector money can buy. The picture on Alan's screen was incredible. And for anyone that thinks you can have to much light on a screen, before you make that claim, you should see what 100+fl looks like. INCREDIBLE!

As I walked out of Alan's house, there was only one thing I could say, "Check is in the mail." I ordered a Barco 4K-23B. I hope to have it within a week or so!

So I have just started to dip my toe into the water where only a handful of people swim. But I'm about to dive in head first. Luckily Peter, W.Mayer, and Alan, are all here to keep me from drowning!

Stay posted.. more challenges lay ahead! The biggest right now is how to make this projector fit into a room thats 8" to small With some creative ideas I have hopefully solved that problem
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post #2 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 06:36 PM
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Good luck Chris, keep us posted.
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post #3 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Good luck Chris, keep us posted.

Lon,

I owe you a big thank you for all your help and advice over the past few years. You were always there re-focusing me towards the Barco when I would start to consider options that you thought were a step backwards.

BTW. did you figure out what was up with you Radiance firmware issue?
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post #4 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 07:01 AM
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No, I have not had time to run through the process of trouble shooting, I have left firmaware at110211 which does not display problem.

Just out of curiousity are you running all sources our of Radiance to DVI3D Input 8 on your Titan or just triple flash sources to that input, and all other sources to Input 3?
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post #5 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 09:31 AM
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Just curious why did you choose Alan over Peter as your dealer? From what I gather there is no more hardware modding in the series 2 platform. Except the P version's slightly enhanced on-off contrast, but is the 4K version of the post-production unit available yet?

Congratulations on your new toy.
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post #6 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Just curious why did you choose Alan over Peter as your dealer? From what I gather there is no more hardware modding in the series 2 platform. Except the P version's slightly enhanced on-off contrast, but is the 4K version of the post-production unit available yet?

Congratulations on your new toy.

There is modding still done on the series 2 projectors, through the use of apertures. I think alot of Peter's secret sauce mods are more software driven now, but he would have to answer that. But there are still modifications.

As for why I am working with Alan, that's a harder question to answer. I really like Peter and I just felt like he was more focused in selling entire packages and probably has more work than he can handle. That is just an assumption, he certainly did not say that to me. Alan became someone I was more regularly in contact with and was available anytime to talk.

Peter has been assisting with certain pieces and parts and helping with info. So he certainly has been a great help in this process

If I had the money to walk away with a turn key room installed by Peter, that's what I would have done. But if one day i happen to have an extra "half a mill" just laying around. He will be there first one I call!
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post #7 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 03:30 PM
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Thought there was just the one, not too agressive, apperature reduction of the P version left, no after market mods. Peter indeed does offer custom gamma modes and other software mods.
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post #8 of 96 Old 03-09-2012, 10:53 AM
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welcome to the club chris.

sad that you not buy the b32 as the big advantage is as i told you to sale it later
as most user of this pr. are need the b32.

the b32 can take every lamp you like to put inside the b23 have a 4k lamp limit
and most cinemas drive it with the big lamps.

but as long as you like to keep it you are fine with the b23 as it will have even for 3d
enough light out.
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post #9 of 96 Old 03-09-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Thought there was just the one, not too agressive, apperature reduction of the P version left, no after market mods. Peter indeed does offer custom gamma modes and other software mods.

I know that they are sending me a few different aperture plates to try out, some more aggressive, some less.

How this compares to modifications that could be made to the series 1 projectors, I'm not sure.
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post #10 of 96 Old 03-09-2012, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

welcome to the club chris.

sad that you not buy the b32 as the big advantage is as i told you to sale it later
as most user of this pr. are need the b32.

the b32 can take every lamp you like to put inside the b23 have a 4k lamp limit
and most cinemas drive it with the big lamps.

but as long as you like to keep it you are fine with the b23 as it will have even for 3d
enough light out.

W.Mayer,

I completely understand your reasoning for pushing me towards the 32b, but from a financial stand point, i just could not spend the extra money. Not only was there a fairly significant price difference between the 2 models, but I would have to get a power convertor, to deal with the 32b only working with 3 phase power. From what i was told, that could be upwards of 5k.

And... if the unit is as upgradable as i am told it is, between a laser light module, new HFR boards, new lenses, I should be happy to keep this unit for many many years.

I know the 23b will give me plenty of light for both 2D and 3D since I can use up to 4kw lamps.

The next project for me, is figuring out how to get a bigger screen. I want to do something in the 20' wide scope range.
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post #11 of 96 Old 03-09-2012, 03:07 PM
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yes if you not have the 3 phase that will be a additional investment on top of the
price difference the pr. itself have.

you will have fun with this pr. i am sure.
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post #12 of 96 Old 03-21-2012, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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So the projector will be delivered tomorrow I'm so excited.

I finally figured out the best way to deal with the fact that the projector was deeper than the projection room. The projector is going to be mounted on a pull-out shelf. It will pull into the theater using 2 heavy duty 400lb cabinet drawer slides. The main reason for the pull out was to be able to remove all of the panels on the projector. The side panels would not be able to be removed since the projector was going to stick into both the front and back wall. This way it can pull forward upto 36" so any panel can be removed.

The cabinet slide out will be installed tomorrow. Then cabinet doors will be mounted to both the opening in the back hallway, where the rear of the projector will sit, and to the back wall of the theater covering the front of the projector. Then the lens hole will be cut into the door and the lens will stick out into the room.

Tomorrow will be a busy day! The slide out will be installed then the projector will be set in place.

The calibrator will be driving up from south Florida late on thursday, so calibration will be done on Friday! This should be a fun weekend!

Hopefully everything goes well!


















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post #13 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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The projector has finally arrived! One step closer

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post #14 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 11:45 AM
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That is great news that you worked out the logistics without blowing out walls/flooring etc.

Should be EZ Peazy from here on out
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post #15 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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The pull out sled has been installed.

Now the only bad part left is to wrestle the heavy projector into place.




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post #16 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 03:20 PM
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Looks awesome! Always amazing to see dci units in homes!

So literally any consumer can just call barco and order one their units?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #17 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 05:25 PM
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I love watching the evolution of your theater, Chris. This must be a tremendously exciting step!

Since it looks to be rolling in and out, how do you plan on dealing with the exhaust from the Barco?
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post #18 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

I love watching the evolution of your theater, Chris. This must be a tremendously exciting step!

Since it looks to be rolling in and out, how do you plan on dealing with the exhaust from the Barco?

Thanks for following. It definitely a passion that borders on obsession. Lol. I am super excited to see this thing fire up tomorrow!

When I need to pull the Barco out for servicing, I'll just disconnect to duct pipe. It should be easy enough to remove.
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post #19 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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That was no small task to set the projector in place but thankfully that is done. In a job that can only be referred to as back breaking, even with 4 people, luckily went well.











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post #20 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 09:46 PM
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Wow. Look at the size of that thing. I can't even imagine what kind of picture it's going to throw.

What are you planning on connecting it to? Are you getting a DCI server?
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post #21 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 11:36 PM
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I had no idea people were actually doing these in homes, this is fantastic. Will you be using the HD-SDI inputs at all, or driving everything through dual-link DVI? Are there any scalers out there that can even drive 4K? I know Barco's ACS-2048 is one of the better scalers, but it's even in the name, that will only push half the resolution you're going for.

In fact, now that I think about it, how did you even aquire a 4K machine without an IMB?
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post #22 of 96 Old 03-22-2012, 11:51 PM
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I had no idea people were actually doing these in homes, this is fantastic. Will you be using the HD-SDI inputs at all, or driving everything through dual-link DVI? Are there any scalers out there that can even drive 4K? I know Barco's ACS-2048 is one of the better scalers, but it's even in the name, that will only push half the resolution you're going for.

In fact, now that I think about it, how did you even aquire a 4K machine without an IMB?

The only legal input option for BluRay is HDMI. And I assume this projector is HDCP compliant? If someone has found an HDMI to HDSDI converter that works with HDCP content I would like to know of it. I could use one myself.

Of course a JVB HDSDI BluRay player would work as well.

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post #23 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 01:12 AM
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How does the pair of dual link dvi connections work? From what I understand a single dual link DVI isn't capable of outputting a native 4K image, or at least that's what the wikipedia page says. Does each connection output half of the image and is put together inside the projector?
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post #24 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 08:08 AM
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Wow!...all you need now is a Doremi or Datasat and a few Hollywood connections..or a Prima subscription if that gets off the ground.
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post #25 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 08:44 AM
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A naive question perhaps, but...How does one go about getting DCPs to take advantage of the DCI compliant nature of such a projector?

Sufficient money can get one the projector and a server (for 4K content an IMB, really) but without studio "connections" I don't see how one can get actual cinema content nor the KDMs that allow playing that content. If you're not playing cinema content what is the point of buying a DCI projector?
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post #26 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 10:42 AM
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That last pic looks like the opening scene from Star Wars.

My new favorite game is Save The Titanic

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post #27 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

How does the pair of dual link dvi connections work? From what I understand a single dual link DVI isn't capable of outputting a native 4K image, or at least that's what the wikipedia page says. Does each connection output half of the image and is put together inside the projector?

Dvi connections can be single link Orr dual link within a single cable. On top of that you can have two cables both dual link which is 4X the bandwidth of a single link connection, like a typical <1920x1200 monitor.

The data can be multiplexed many ways across the DVI links, the most popular is line by line.

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post #28 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 01:06 PM
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A naive question perhaps, but...How does one go about getting DCPs to take advantage of the DCI compliant nature of such a projector?

You can book them through a distributor, just as you could book a 35mm print for your home. Not day-and-date, and you would probably have to book as a nontheatrical exhibitor, but older titles (maybe even slightly before the video release) would be fair game. And this would give you the right to charge admission as well (zoning regulations and such notwithstanding). Figure on spending about $250-750 per booking, plus shipping for the hard disk. You would get keys that would allow the screening to take place only on the date and time(s) specified in the booking request. You would not own the DCI content or be able to play it at another time without receiving another key. This is not cheap, but it is do-able. Obviously, this only works for titles that exist in DCP form; most older titles would be book-able as 35mm or 16mm prints or BR/DVD only.

Also, you could make your own DCPs; software exists to do this, and would make it easy to create your own trailers, snipes, etc. You could even make a DCP from a DVD or Blu-Ray, which would potentially give more reliable playback and the ability to easily add trailers and shorts to the program, as well as automate the show with light, curtain, and sound cues.

As for BR: an HDMI->DVI cable would allow for the direct connection of a BR player to the projector. Yes, all current DCI projectors are HDCP compliant (older ones are not, however). A scaler would be needed to allow the connection of component and composite video and other devices.

Quote:
The only legal input option for BluRay is HDMI.

Umm...no. Component video through a scaler works fine, too.
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post #29 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 01:31 PM
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This looks amazing!

For the home cinema projectors we find are selves upgrading every few years to the next best thing. How long should a DCI model last before one would feel the need to upgrade to the next best thing?

My First Home Theater

300 Blu-Rays, 150 DVD's loaded in my Movie Server!

Thanks AVS for making me addicted to this hobby!
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post #30 of 96 Old 03-23-2012, 02:59 PM
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Umm...no. Component video through a scaler works fine, too.

OK, BluRay still allows component output. But isn't this a 4K setup? Upscaling from a component source is not ideal at all.

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