Dolby Atmos Theatre System - Page 38 - AVS Forum
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post #1111 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Dolby Atmos' white paper spells out the requirements. They recommend surrounds that go down to about 40 Hz as ideal for everything but the front screen speakers.
That means I will have to have woofers too then.

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post #1112 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
That means I will have to have woofers too then.
Well, the decoders will have surround subwoofer outputs if you have smaller speakers.
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post #1113 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Well, the decoders will have surround subwoofer outputs if you have smaller speakers.
My problem will be that I will need lighter speakers than my Klipsch Heresy HIPs for the heights as I don't know about the ceiling supporting them with clips, and double drywall. If I can put them in my columns and aim them up I will be fine but then it comes down to having the pinpoint dispersion in a package that is no bigger than my Heresy speakers. The only other option I can think of would be to make a new pair of speakers and use the Heresy drivers in it and add drivers for the heights. Looking at the images for the speaker example I can't image how small the height channel drivers must be... Makes me think they might be using full range drivers like a Bose 901 with a very narrow dispersion.

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post #1114 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Dolby Atmos' white paper spells out the requirements. They recommend surrounds that go down to about 40 Hz as ideal for everything but the front screen speakers.
Link please to white paper
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post #1115 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 04:42 PM
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deleted - wrong thread

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post #1116 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Link please to white paper
Here you go.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/A...ifications.pdf

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post #1117 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
So how long will it take for the Krell, Anthem, Lexicon, Classe, McIntosh and the likes to bring ATMMOS to their pre/pro?

I am sure that it will be at least three to five years

Might have to buy a Marantz
+1 was just thinking the same. I just blew off years of Integra and more recently Denon, to move to McIntosh processing. Kind of reminds me of that famous Godfather line....Just when I thought I was out...They pull me back in! Starting to think it's a clever ploy by the Japanese makers to keep early adopters like me buying their products (I do realise they have far more $$ to spend on product development and licensing than the high end makers of course).
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post #1118 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
YES!!!

Lol, now I can stop being a d**k about it "not existing" anymore.... I guess.

Bring it! I'm ready for Atmos.

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post #1119 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Dolby Atmos' white paper spells out the requirements. They recommend surrounds that go down to about 40 Hz as ideal for everything but the front screen speakers.
So these should be fine then

800D2
- Frequency response 32Hz-28kHz ±3dB on reference axis


http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Downlo...d_brochure.pdf

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post #1120 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Yes! Hang these from the walls. However, there are some premium commercial theaters that can and do have BIG honkin' surrounds.

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post #1121 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Yes! Hang these from the walls. However, there are some premium commercial theaters that can and do have BIG honkin' surrounds.
These will work for me



http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speake...2-Diamond.html

Last edited by wse; 06-23-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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post #1122 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
I wonder what the specs are for the height drivers... I don't think they will need to be full range... Maybe mids and tweets?
Dolby states:

>>If bass management is used, the surround loudspeakers frequency response (±3 dB) must extend to 90 Hz or lower. The crossover frequency should be set based on the capabilities of the surround loudspeakers, but must not be higher than 100 Hz.<<

The above is in a cinema paper. But as it is fully consistent with existing bass management practice for home systems, it should not pose a problem.
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post #1123 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Dolby states:

>>If bass management is used, the surround loudspeakers frequency response (±3 dB) must extend to 90 Hz or lower. The crossover frequency should be set based on the capabilities of the surround loudspeakers, but must not be higher than 100 Hz.<<

The above is in a cinema paper. But as it is fully consistent with existing bass management practice for home systems, it should not pose a problem.
So we're still looking at speakers that need to have >10" woofers to get to reference SPL without compression and distortion.

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post #1124 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
So we're still looking at speakers that need to have >10" woofers to get to reference SPL without compression and distortion.
The height speakers do not need to be any larger or capable than the main speakers.
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post #1125 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The height speakers do not need to be any larger or capable than the main speakers.
Roger,

Do you have any idea if Dolby might be encoding their Atmos Blu-ray tracks (the ones they say are coming this fall anyway) with metadata that can control more than the current 7.1+4 layout? In a sense, future-proofing the mixes if hardware and software come out (hopefully in 2nd gen products) that can add more speaker/sub outputs (maybe via an add-on device)?

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post #1126 of 1281 Old 06-23-2014, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The height speakers do not need to be any larger or capable than the main speakers.
The Dolby specs says, "Each loudspeaker and associated amplifier must have a maximum output capability of 99 dB continuous SPL at the reference listening position." and "Each surround array and the associated amplifiers must be able to produce 105 dB continuous SPL at the reference listening position. To meet this requirement for surround arrays with fewer than four loudspeakers, each loudspeaker must be able to produce more than 99 dB continuous SPL."

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post #1127 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Roger,

Do you have any idea if Dolby might be encoding their Atmos Blu-ray tracks (the ones they say are coming this fall anyway) with metadata that can control more than the current 7.1+4 layout? In a sense, future-proofing the mixes if hardware and software come out (hopefully in 2nd gen products) that can add more speaker/sub outputs (maybe via an add-on device)?
It would be fairly pointless to create an object-based audio system that is limited to a set of speakers. I thnk the 7.1+4 constraint is in the current DSPs (and wallets).


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The Dolby specs says, "Each loudspeaker and associated amplifier must have a maximum output capability of 99 dB continuous SPL at the reference listening position." and "Each surround array and the associated amplifiers must be able to produce 105 dB continuous SPL at the reference listening position. To meet this requirement for surround arrays with fewer than four loudspeakers, each loudspeaker must be able to produce more than 99 dB continuous SPL."
As I note, those specs are for commercial Atmos cinemas.
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post #1128 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 12:46 AM
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As I note, those specs are for commercial Atmos cinemas.
Sure but reference level applies to home theaters as well, no?

99dB SPL at the listening position requires speakers that are capable of 105dB for a listening distance of 2m and 108,5dB for 3m. I don't know many speakers that would qualify.

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post #1129 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure but reference level applies to home theaters as well, no?
Not for most of us, I reckon. But there are some who go there. The fact remains -- the height speakers are never asked to carry more freight than the mains. The requirements are just the same as any other bass-managed consumer surround speaker. If one is happy with their satellites, those will serve nicely for heights.
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post #1130 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Not for most of us, I reckon. But there are some who go there. The fact remains -- the height speakers are never asked to carry more freight than the mains. The requirements are just the same as any other bass-managed consumer surround speaker. If one is happy with their satellites, those will serve nicely for heights.
Correct, the heights and surrounds are spec'd at 6dB below the mains. Anyway, there's a difference between sounds-good-to-me™ and uncompressed and undistorted. Anything <10" will most likely don't get you to the latter even with bass management enabled.

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post #1131 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
It would be fairly pointless to create an object-based audio system that is limited to a set of speakers. I thnk the 7.1+4 constraint is in the current DSPs (and wallets).
Thanks, Roger. I hope you're right.

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post #1132 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 09:19 AM
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Sure but reference level applies to home theaters as well, no?

99dB SPL at the listening position requires speakers that are capable of 105dB for a listening distance of 2m and 108,5dB for 3m. I don't know many speakers that would qualify.
HTH are you calculating this?
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post #1133 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 09:27 AM
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What does that have to do with mounting smaller versions of his horn speakers overhead?
Nothing, my mistake.

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99dB SPL at the listening position requires speakers that are capable of 105dB for a listening distance of 2m and 108,5dB for 3m. I don't know many speakers that would qualify.
A 6 1/2" closed-box driver at ~4 mm excursion gives 108 dB/1 m assuming a XO that's down 3 dB at 90 Hz, and much higher SPL if vented.

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post #1134 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 09:41 AM
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A 6 1/2" closed-box driver at ~4 mm excursion gives 108 dB/1 m assuming a XO that's down 3 dB at 90 Hz, and much higher SPL if vented.
Show me a real driver that does that. Look at PA drivers that are made for high SPL. You'll hardly find one.

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post #1135 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 09:44 AM
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HTH are you calculating this?
Use any of the calculators you'll find online, e.g. at sengpielaudio.com

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post #1136 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 09:45 AM
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Markus, are you using electrostatics powered with tube amps or something?

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #1137 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 09:46 AM
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Markus, are you using electrostatics powered with tube amps or something?
No, distorted sound is NOT what I was talking about

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post #1138 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Not for most of us, I reckon. But there are some who go there. The fact remains -- the height speakers are never asked to carry more freight than the mains. The requirements are just the same as any other bass-managed consumer surround speaker. If one is happy with their satellites, those will serve nicely for heights.
Hello Roger,

Tough to hang B&W800D2 on the walls! Do you think these will work B&W805D2?
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post #1139 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 10:20 AM
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Common markus, noah katz is aproximately right. I think you are misunderstanding the whole SPL story....

"99dB SPL at the listening position requires speakers that are capable of 105dB for a listening distance of 2m and 108,5dB for 3m."
as you wrote. It's somehow totally miscalculated/misunderstood. Even though, in what distance is then the listener from the speakers?


The 99dB at the listening position, let's say 3m, is capable any decent i.e. 6.5" speaker with average sensitivity, let's say 85dB/W/m, with no more than 50W if I am calculating it correctly...
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post #1140 of 1281 Old 06-24-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zorg43x View Post
Common markus, noah katz is aproximately right. I think you are misunderstanding the whole SPL story....

"99dB SPL at the listening position requires speakers that are capable of 105dB for a listening distance of 2m and 108,5dB for 3m."
as you wrote. It's somehow totally miscalculated/misunderstood. Even though, in what distance is then the listener from the speakers?
Err, just like I've said:

Code:
Required SPL   Listening distance   Required SPL @ 1m
99 dB SPL      1 m                   99,0 dB
99 db SPL      2 m                  105,0 dB
99 dB SPL      3 m                  108,5 dB
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorg43x View Post
The 99dB at the listening position, let's say 3m, is capable any decent i.e. 6.5" speaker with average sensitivity, let's say 85dB/W/m, with no more than 50W if I am calculating it correctly...
Not without compression and and/or high level of distortion.

Markus

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