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D-cinema Equipment and Theaters > Dolby Atmos Theatre System
FilmMixer's Avatar FilmMixer 03:55 PM 07-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
They like object audio better, so do Hollywood studios. Auro3D is already outdated technology. And to me (and others) it doesn't sound as good.
Auro3D has added objects via MDA...

So now, like Atmos, it is a hybrid channel + object format.

For our company, it was going to be prohibitively expensive to install Auro... in addition to lowering our current surrounds to add the height layer, the front height requirement would have involved redoing the entire front wall... which also meant lowering our main LCR..

Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 04:07 PM 07-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Auro3D has added objects via MDA...

So now, like Atmos, it is a hybrid channel + object format.

For our company, it was going to be prohibitively expensive to install Auro... in addition to lowering our current surrounds to add the height layer, the front height requirement would have involved redoing the entire front wall... which also meant lowering our main LCR..
You're right, Barco signed up to go with the DTS MDA object format. I should have clarified that Auro3D as a channel plus matrix post processing format is long in the tooth.

It may be that Auro is being withheld from the consumer market to go with DTS-UHD... since it seems to be DTS MDA in a consumer "disguise."

It will be interesting to see what DTS has up its sleeves.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 04:12 PM 07-11-2014
Yeah how bout that, Dan.
FilmMixer's Avatar FilmMixer 04:12 PM 07-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You're right, Barco signed up to go with the DTS MDA object format. I should have clarified that Auro3D as a channel plus matrix post processing format is long in the tooth.

It may be that Auro is being withheld from the consumer market to go with DTS-UHD... since it seems to be DTS MDA in a consumer "disguise."

It will be interesting to see what DTS has up its sleeves.
The whole point of Auro 3D from the inception is that they can wrap their 11.1/13.1 in a 5.1/7.1 payload that was always backwards compatible..

Not sure why it hasn't come to market up until now with Datasat....
wse's Avatar wse 07:57 AM 07-13-2014
Auro 3d, atmos dts uhd
Orbitron's Avatar Orbitron 08:24 AM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sdurani</strong> <a href="/forum/post/21943629"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Similar, to the extent that they both use object-based mixing and rendering to a large number of speakers. But then SRS had a similar proposal, as did DTS (which just bought SRS). Looks like everyone was headed in that direction anyway.</div>
</div>
<br>
Very excited about this, which has indeed been a long time in the coming and with some very similar ideas which have yet to come to market.<br><br>
One of the impediments to past efforts (i.e. Iosono, etc) was the cost and construction outlay...<br><br>
My understanding is that Dolby has a great hardware "parnter" and a unique buisness model to help speed up the installation of Atmos systems in verues fairly quickly... and that at least one national theater chain already has a head start on adopting the technology sooner rather than later.<br><br>
As others have stated, this isn't DSX or PLIIz... it is an entirely new way of <i>creating content</i> that can then be played back in a variety of environment regardless of how many physical transducers the space may or may not contain..<br><br>
More than 7.1 (or even 6.1) this is the first technology that I am truly jonseing to get my hands on ASAP.. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/cool.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Cool">
So close, you can almost taste it.
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 09:52 AM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
The whole point of Auro 3D from the inception is that they can wrap their 11.1/13.1 in a 5.1/7.1 payload that was always backwards compatible..

Not sure why it hasn't come to market up until now with Datasat....
If I'm not mistaken, some CEM products (e.g., Krell Foundation) use an all-in-one chip from Cirrus Logic to perform "all(?)" decode and post-processing of Dolby, DTS|SRS, MPEG, and THX audio IP up to and including Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HDMaster Audio™--see Cirrus Logic CS4970x4 Data Sheet page 1 (link).

My uninformed guess is that the anticipated Cirrus Logic chip that delivers DTS-UHD functionality will be a 'replacement all-in-one product' which adds both Auro-3D and DTS-UHD to the existing feature set . . . which suggests that we might have to wait for mass market CEM announcements of products containing one or both codecs "on the same day".
_
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 10:08 AM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
If I'm not mistaken, some CEM products (e.g., Krell Foundation) use an all-in-one chip from Cirrus Logic to perform "all(?)" decode and post-processing of Dolby, DTS|SRS, MPEG, and THX audio IP up to and including Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HDMaster Audio™--see Cirrus Logic CS4970x4 Data Sheet page 1 (link).

My uninformed guess is that the anticipated Cirrus Logic chip that delivers DTS-UHD functionality will be a 'replacement all-in-one product' which adds both Auro-3D and DTS-UHD to the existing feature set . . . which suggests that we might have to wait for mass market CEM announcements of products containing one or both codecs "on the same day".
_
If Auro insists on a speaker layout like their theater designs (and comes to market) and then Dolby has their own... it's going to confuse the heck out of some parts of the consumer base. Look at the befuddlement that's happening with only Atmos right now.

To me, I think it would be best if Auro bowed out if it's not going to be just an optional metadata-infused object positional/mapping configuration for DTS-UHD and its object approach (like Atmos). Traditional Auro3D is not object based and in my experience... inferior sounding.

If Barco is going to compete against its own partner and come out with basic Auro3D on top of DTS-UHD and Dolby Atmos... argh!! It's going to be a mess. Compromises galore because you'll be asking these already taxed chips to do three different, computationally complex codecs. Then some discs will have Auro, some DTS-UHD, some Atmos.
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 11:41 AM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If Auro insists on a speaker layout like their theater designs (and comes to market) and then Dolby has their own... it's going to confuse the heck out of some parts of the consumer base. Look at the befuddlement that's happening with only Atmos right now.
Actually, it looks to me that installing a Front Height Left|Right (FHL|FHR) speaker pair plus a Rear Height Left|Right (RHL|RHR) speaker pair and configuring the AVR to use them as the Height1 and Height2 speaker pairs in an Atmos 5.1.4 configuration would also produce a speaker layout correctly structured for Auro-3D 9.1. (Looking at the user manual for the Yamaha RX-A2040|RX-A3040, that seems to be the only Atmos speaker configuration offered...?!)


sdurani's Avatar sdurani 11:57 AM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
Actually, it looks to me that installing a Front Height Left|Right (FHL|FHR) speaker pair plus a Rear Height Left|Right (RHL|RHR) speaker pair and configuring the AVR to use them as the Height1 and Height2 speaker pairs in an Atmos 5.1.4 configuration would also produce a speaker layout correctly structured for Auro-3D 9.1.
According to the Datasat guide to Auro speaker placement, the surround heights should go above the side speakers. For larger rooms with 7.1 layouts, a second pair of surround heights can be added above the rear speakers. But that wouldn't be the first choice for surround heights in an Auro system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
(Looking at the user manual for the Yamaha RX-A2040|RX-A3040, that seems to be the only Atmos speaker configuration offered...?!)
That would be at odds with manufacturers like Denon who say that those front/rear heights are the only ones not used with Atmos.
FilmMixer's Avatar FilmMixer 12:19 PM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
(Looking at the user manual for the Yamaha RX-A2040|RX-A3040, that seems to be the only Atmos speaker configuration offered...?!)
I think it's safe to say that the Yamaha manual will be updated when they add Atmos.

I don't think what it says now is any indication of how it will work once upgraded... the manual is dated early June 2014...

And to be clear to other readers, that illustration isn't from the Yamaha manual.
Roger Dressler's Avatar Roger Dressler 01:56 PM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
According to the Datasat guide to Auro speaker placement, the surround heights should go above the side speakers. For larger rooms with 7.1 layouts, a second pair of surround heights can be added above the rear speakers.
Maybe Auro t'home could do like a cinema, where the heights are presented on side wall arrays. So run the Auro side height channels to the side pairs of height speakers, and the second pair of surround channels can just feed the rear pair. Problem solved?
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 02:32 PM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Maybe Auro t'home could do like a cinema, where the heights are presented on side wall arrays. So run the Auro side height channels to the side pairs of height speakers, and the second pair of surround channels can just feed the rear pair. Problem solved?
I think they already do something like that. If you have a 7.1 base layer, the 2 surround-height channels will be fed to a pair of speakers above your surrounds (side walls). There is an option to add a second pair of height speakers, which would go above your surround-backs (rear wall), but they will still be fed the same 2 surround-height channels.

Soundchex mentioned that a single pair of speakers above the surround-backs, as shown in the Yamaha manual, could satisfy the Auro layout. I was pointing out that the back wall wouldn't be their first choice for surround height location, though it would work in addition to surround heights already on the side walls.
Bumper's Avatar Bumper 12:29 PM 07-16-2014
Just (pre) ordered the avr-x5200w with an option to change it when the 7200 model hits the market. So Denon will replace my current Onkyo NR5009 because Onkyo dropped Audyssey!

Couple of questions and hopefully I can find some answers here:

- I will change my current 9.2 setup to 7.2.4 thus putting my front Heights on the ceiling while adding another pair (heigt 2) to get the 4 ceiling speakers. -> Would it be possible to drive Atmos over a DTS movie like PLIIz can be combined with DTS? Most of my movies are in DTS format and I would hate to fall back to NEO:X if it only handles 9.2 again with the Height 1 speakers in the wrong position.

- What is my Darbee Darblet going to do on this HDMI 2.0 output? I assume it would work but I read issues on backward compatibilities...

Can't wait to find out
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 12:46 PM 07-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
Couple of questions and hopefully I can find some answers here:
This is the theatrical Atmos thread. You'd probably get better answers in the home Atmos thread:

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)
Bumper's Avatar Bumper 01:00 PM 07-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
This is the theatrical Atmos thread. You'd probably get better answers in the home Atmos thread:

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)
I will move my post there. Thnx
kenoh89's Avatar kenoh89 05:47 AM 07-30-2014
I want A/V manufactures to give us more then ceiling speakers, I want more localized speakers on the ground as well! Why not give us options, like 7.2.4, 9.2.4, 13.2.2, 16.2.4, 22.2.4 all the way up to the full blown 34 channels! There be more options on the market and better prices too! Or should I say, more flexible prices...
SanchoPanza's Avatar SanchoPanza 09:28 AM 07-30-2014
I want 24.2.10

Or bare minimum

13.2.6
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX 10:06 AM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You're right, Barco signed up to go with the DTS MDA object format. I should have clarified that Auro3D as a channel plus matrix post processing format is long in the tooth.

It may be that Auro is being withheld from the consumer market to go with DTS-UHD... since it seems to be DTS MDA in a consumer "disguise."

It will be interesting to see what DTS has up its sleeves.
If it's typical DTS they see what Dolby's doing, duplicate it, and add something on top so they can claim to go to "11".
thxman's Avatar thxman 01:12 PM 07-30-2014
I would like to go 14.2.6 (5 across the front L, LC, C, RC, R) as in my avatar, but realizing that I will most likely end up with 9.2.4. So happy to see Atmos coming, but worried it may have been “rushed.”
erwinfrombelgium's Avatar erwinfrombelgium 01:23 PM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post
I want A/V manufactures to give us more then ceiling speakers, I want more localized speakers on the ground as well! Why not give us options, like 7.2.4, 9.2.4, 13.2.2, 16.2.4, 22.2.4 all the way up to the full blown 34 channels! There be more options on the market and better prices too! Or should I say, more flexible prices...
Unless you are a sheik with 40 kids, hence needing a very, very large HT, 12 "ground" speakers is all it takes to fulfill the Atmos cinematic guideline that the horizontal angle between speakers should be no more than 30°. That's 3 on each wall. The position of the Tops relates to the side surrounds, hence there are 6 tops. 4 subs is optimal, so 12.4.6 is all you need for a standard sized HT.

And yet... in my example there are 3 rear channels. Do you really think you would hear the difference if only 2 were used there, in anything but a very wide room?
g_bartman's Avatar g_bartman 08:17 AM 08-05-2014
I will need to figure out where to place 4 Atoms in ceiling speakers within the next few months. I'm doing a 7.2.4 system. Looks like I'm going to use the Hsu in wall speakers at this point. From the diagrams I have seen, it looks like the front 2 are at the same width but a few feet in front of the main l/r and the rears a rat the same with as the sides but between the sides and rears. Does anyone know if that is right? I am having a house built and HAVE to use their contractor to install the speakers. Won't be doing Atmos right away, will be down the road. Any help is appreciated
kbarnes701's Avatar kbarnes701 08:27 AM 08-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post
I will need to figure out where to place 4 Atoms in ceiling speakers within the next few months. I'm doing a 7.2.4 system. Looks like I'm going to use the Hsu in wall speakers at this point. From the diagrams I have seen, it looks like the front 2 are at the same width but a few feet in front of the main l/r and the rears a rat the same with as the sides but between the sides and rears. Does anyone know if that is right? I am having a house built and HAVE to use their contractor to install the speakers. Won't be doing Atmos right away, will be down the road. Any help is appreciated
There's considerable discussion about speaker placement in this thread:

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 08:49 AM 08-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post
I will need to figure out where to place 4 Atoms in ceiling speakers within the next few months. I'm doing a 7.2.4 system. Looks like I'm going to use the Hsu in wall speakers at this point. From the diagrams I have seen, it looks like the front 2 are at the same width but a few feet in front of the main l/r and the rears a rat the same with as the sides but between the sides and rears. Does anyone know if that is right? I am having a house built and HAVE to use their contractor to install the speakers. Won't be doing Atmos right away, will be down the road. Any help is appreciated
Don't start cutting holes just yet. Dolby is set to announce more Atmos related news fairly soon. And they have a more detailed home Atmos white paper coming that should help spell things out.

One thing about those HSU in-wall's is that they're open backed. You might have to make custom MDF backer boxes for each one. And we still don't know if the audio dispersal pattern of speakers like those are going to fit within Dolby's recommendations.
g_bartman's Avatar g_bartman 08:57 AM 08-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Don't start cutting holes just yet. Dolby is set to announce more Atmos related news fairly soon. And they have a more detailed home Atmos white paper coming that should help spell things out.

One thing about those HSU in-wall's is that they're open backed. You might have to make custom MDF backer boxes for each one. And we still don't know if the audio dispersal pattern of speakers like those are going to fit within Dolby's recommendations.
Thanks for the reply. The speakers will be placed during construction, probably in October/November. Is there an enclosed speaker that would work? I hadn't thought about the open back. Would like to stay in the 150 a piece range.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 09:06 AM 08-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post
Thanks for the reply. The speakers will be placed during construction, probably in October/November. Is there an enclosed speaker that would work? I hadn't thought about the open back. Would like to stay in the 150 a piece range.
Jeez, I don't think you can get enclosed in-walls for $150 a piece. They're basically in-rooms that can go in your wall. Normally, the good ones use taller enclosures in order to create the same internal volume with a slim-line depth for typical internal stud wall mounting.

Sometimes you can find Def Tech UIW speakers on Ebay at a discount. About the cheapest enclosed in-walls I could find with good performance. The next price point up from those would be Triad Bronze in-walls.

But remember in all this... you want to timbre match your surrounds and front speakers, especially with Atmos.
g_bartman's Avatar g_bartman 11:35 AM 08-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Jeez, I don't think you can get enclosed in-walls for $150 a piece. They're basically in-rooms that can go in your wall. Normally, the good ones use taller enclosures in order to create the same internal volume with a slim-line depth for typical internal stud wall mounting.

Sometimes you can find Def Tech UIW speakers on Ebay at a discount. About the cheapest enclosed in-walls I could find with good performance. The next price point up from those would be Triad Bronze in-walls.

But remember in all this... you want to timbre match your surrounds and front speakers, especially with Atmos.
I might be sol in that case, my fronts cc and sides are Aerial Acoustics.
gamelover360's Avatar gamelover360 11:13 AM 08-12-2014
Link to Gerben Van Duyl's (co-founder Procella Audio) post about Procella Audio giving the first ever public home cinema demos of Dolby Atmos!:

The Official Procella Audio Speakers Owners thread



Direct link to detailed info and videos:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Proce...12515948779692


I am a happy Procella owner and passionate fan! My journey from a P6/P10 setup to a P610/P15 setup has been an exciting ride. The Atmos setup looks awesome! I am jealous!
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 12:35 PM 08-12-2014
According to the Facebook posting, the demo was at a convention center on August 9. There were similar home-style presentations in the UK and France before then, with the one in the UK on July 15. A review of the UK presentation is available at The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)
TimFrost 06:19 AM 08-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
I am not an employee of Dolby (and neither is Mr. Hitchman) and I am more than excited to be able to bring this technology home.


Object based audio is a true revolution in sound, quite different from the channel based approach that pretty much started with 1940's Fantasia and later formats like CinemaScope in the 1950s.


There were some people who felt same way as you do with 7.1 vs. Atmos as with multichannel discrete audio in the mid 90s vs the matrixed formats (Dolby Surround Pro-Logic).


How do you react to people who say "SDTV/DVD is good enough, I don't need HD/Blu-ray"? Believe it or not, I hear that more often than I care to count.
I know I’m a bit late in this but Peter, you’ve erroneously noted that Atmos is different to Fantasound - I would suggest it is its direct predecessor.

Far from being a multichannel linear system with tracks attached to specific speaker positions in the theatre, the Fantasound audio was recorded optically in 6 discrete channels of instrument groups none of which were allocated to a position in the theatre – you could in fact call them objects (sounding familiar?). Along with these sound objects track, was a separate control track that determined, within the playback system, both the level and the placement of the sound. Isn't that what Atmos achieves?
The only real difference between Fantasound and Atmos is that the former used the newly developed (in 1941) ‘panpots’ which were controlled by geared motors, and Dolby have the advantage of a completely digital chain.
Seems Disney (and Stokowski) were ahead of the game by 60 years , which considering commercial film sound is under 90 years old – is not bad.
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