Dolby Atmos Theatre System - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1351 of 1405 Old 05-06-2015, 11:10 AM
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Since they seem to be streamlining the nomenclature ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Maybe if it had been labeled 'Dolby Digital+'.
Ok I get it but since they went from Dolby PL to PL2 to pl2z then to Dolby Surround, I was excited to see the plain looking DOLBY SURROUND and immediately related it to ATMOS.

Well thanks for clarifying FM and Scott, too bad!
----------------------------------------------------------------

I will thus then contribute a pearl of "from the trenches" wisdom as it regards the CP-850 calibration side.

Since CINEMACON I have been interacting with group of Atmos certified installers who calibrate Movie Theaters from a effectiveness of autoeq angle, the consensus seems that the auto calibration feature in the cp-850 is yielding some incidents of mixed result, short story is that for behind the screen channels (and Dolby has received such feedback) the end result for some is a "crunchy sounding" presentation (Jbl-like sounding if you follow my critiques for dubbing stage performance levels, a visit by a dozen avsers to the Lab in LA confirmed room for improvement in this area)this up front while the room surround channels and T speakers the Atmos Auto EQ is excellent sounding smooth and un-distorted- the desired goal. This is not alien to the Fatigue Free B-Chain concept with A-B-C prioritized budget allocations for ATMOS systems where A)Being LCR, B) Screen to Auditorium Transition channels and C)Auditorium Channels.

It could also touch on the Screen EQ subjects addressed in AES 57 conference on IMMERSIVE Sound. Calibrators have obtained variances to use different MANUAL CALIBRATION methods for the main channels, with good results.Thinking out loud DIRAC may have set up a high mark, I am sure DOLBY will perfect this in near future.

Dolby will continue to improve not only the front end where you entre the auditorium metadata into the cp-850, but continue to improve the methods for Auto EQ, they may be working on a 3-D microphone system that not only does what for example a trinnov does, but also some of what it cannot do like keeping perfect track of xyz individual positions in the subwoofer management side, for the CP-850. Perhaps it may even read the room itself. Who knows.

Having not heard yet the calibration of system TRITON in Germany, the first TRINNOV ALTITUDE system using 32 loudspeaker channels in a home Atmos implementation, I am in no position to tell Dolkby buy TRINNOV. .


To this date I am very comfortable with the DIRAC LIVE solution for what it can do for movie theaters, it is the very best solution when you consider that you have a time limit of 2 days to calibrate, when you live in the same place as the theater then by all means use TRINNOV. Because the cp-850 does not have Dirac the solution will have to be one of the SMPTE methods. I believe the Qsys system has great firepower to do that and integrate all signals and connections under one roof digitally.

Here is the overview.


My problem is that I may be ok to use QSC network power dacs (assuming they compare well with the Quested Smart Dante amps)for say the 22 surround and room height speakers (using TRITON ROOM AS EXAMPLE), but for the height channels and width channels may want to use a D'agostino Cinema Standard amps using still something like the benchmark dacs, but then for the LCR I would want to use MOLA MOLA DACS and D'agostino Cinema Standard amps. I would be still using Quested Speakers....

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 05-06-2015 at 11:23 AM.
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post #1352 of 1405 Old 05-06-2015, 11:19 AM
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I understand the confusion but it clearly says, 'Dolby Digital' not Dolby Surround.
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post #1353 of 1405 Old 05-06-2015, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I understand the confusion but it clearly says, 'Dolby Digital' not Dolby Surround.
That is why use the forum as a soundboard, it looked as it was spelled simple enough, Hey I think for the amount of misinformation I post compared to the off the chart breakthrough intel I do uncover and share here, seems to me I have earned the right to err? No .

Which I can say when it comes to Laser and how much HDR and now something even more crucial to anyone considering a Large 4k dlp chip Laser projection, we since yesterday confirmed being purview to some secret menu features information 2/3's of the projector manufacturers don't want you to know, that I guarantee you potentially compromises 30% of your image sharpness.

I will not sharing that with you guys, because I admit it's the mother of all competitive advantages and it will shake many vendor boats, but I can brag about it and admonish people against pulling their own "Taras Bulba Ending" in the implementation of a new 4K large chip DLP projector as only one tech has the details in USA and we are partnered in this solution, but anyone considering a dpi or dci 4k machine they are literally playing Russian roulette with their MTF.

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post #1354 of 1405 Old 05-15-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve544 View Post
Excited to hear this but also a bit unhappy for the home theater owner as it appears to mean the necessity of getting a whole new processor that is Atmos enabled and replacing all 5.1 and 7.1 Blu Ray discs with the versions of the film that will enable Atmos to do its things. I have a 7.1 system and hundreds of Blu Rays that would need replacing; that's a lot of $, Still I can't wait to go to a theater that has this system installed.
New theater near my has the latest in Dolby Atmos installed and all I can say is "WOW". It was so intense on the preview demo of Atmos that I started laughing aferwards out of disbelief. Inspired me to upgrade my entire speaker system. Just debating now on which Atmos enabled receiver to choose and 2 or 4 ceiling speakers?
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post #1355 of 1405 Old 05-15-2015, 02:03 PM
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Go 7.1.4 or go home! As has been said elsewhere, mo' speakers mo' betta!

Check out the (extremely long) Dolby Atmos for the home thread.

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post #1356 of 1405 Old 05-18-2015, 11:10 PM
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Hey guys,

I see in part of this thread that people are trying to find good small but loud and good ceiling speakers and an amp that goes over 110 db or so.

Check out Mark and Daniel Ruby or lower and d-sonic multichannel amps.

If I remember right the smallest 2 x M&D and 2-channel d-sonic is around 2.5k.

This combo is very tiny will play any volume and will challenge many people's main's!

Also, d-sonic can provide 6 or 7-channel amps in one chassis and very powerful and power efficient.
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post #1357 of 1405 Old 05-21-2015, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
New theater near my has the latest in Dolby Atmos installed and all I can say is "WOW". It was so intense on the preview demo of Atmos that I started laughing aferwards out of disbelief. Inspired me to upgrade my entire speaker system. Just debating now on which Atmos enabled receiver to choose and 2 or 4 ceiling speakers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightminer View Post
Hey guys,

I see in part of this thread that people are trying to find good small but loud and good ceiling speakers and an amp that goes over 110 db or so.

Check out Mark and Daniel Ruby or lower and d-sonic multichannel amps.

If I remember right the smallest 2 x M&D and 2-channel d-sonic is around 2.5k.

This combo is very tiny will play any volume and will challenge many people's main's!

Also, d-sonic can provide 6 or 7-channel amps in one chassis and very powerful and power efficient.
I heard the KEF Ci200RR THX in-ceiling speakers in a 7.1.4 Atmos setup (with all KEF speakers, Ci5160 L/R, Ci3160 Center and all surrounds, Ci200RR for ceiling) and thought they were excellent. 90dB sensitivity and good dispersion thanks to their Uni-Q driver which is dual concentric. Guys have a look here http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/...0RR/index.html and let us know what you think.
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post #1358 of 1405 Old 05-21-2015, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I heard the KEF Ci200RR THX in-ceiling speakers in a 7.1.4 Atmos setup (with all KEF speakers, Ci5160 L/R, Ci3160 Center and all surrounds, Ci200RR for ceiling) and thought they were excellent. 90dB sensitivity and good dispersion thanks to their Uni-Q driver which is dual concentric. Guys have a look here http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/...0RR/index.html and let us know what you think.
I'd put that in the home Atmos thread. This is for the cinema version.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1359 of 1405 Old 05-22-2015, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I heard the KEF Ci200RR THX in-ceiling speakers in a 7.1.4 Atmos setup (with all KEF speakers, Ci5160 L/R, Ci3160 Center and all surrounds, Ci200RR for ceiling) and thought they were excellent. 90dB sensitivity and good dispersion thanks to their Uni-Q driver which is dual concentric. Guys have a look here http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/...0RR/index.html and let us know what you think.
Yes they are outstanding
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post #1360 of 1405 Old 05-25-2015, 11:24 PM
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Will these mount in the ceiling or should i set them in the attic for best immersive sound?
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And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #1361 of 1405 Old 05-27-2015, 07:46 PM
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Will these mount in the ceiling or should i set them in the attic for best immersive sound?
OSP...

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post #1362 of 1405 Old 05-27-2015, 08:42 PM
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Yes they are outstanding
Where have you heard the KEF Ci THX series and what was your impression of them? From your reply I thought maybe you had them yourself but looking at your theater thread I see you have others. Thanks.
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post #1363 of 1405 Old 05-27-2015, 09:16 PM
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Exclamation

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Where have you heard the KEF Ci THX series and what was your impression of them? From your reply I thought maybe you had them yourself but looking at your theater thread I see you have others. Thanks.
I heard them in ceiling at my dealer and they sounded amazing! He had 9 KEF-LS 50 all around, and the KEF Ci THX in ceiling
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post #1364 of 1405 Old 05-27-2015, 11:23 PM
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OSP...

One sick puppy....
Sorry Peter. Just couldn't stop myself. There is a technical term for that. Pro-ficient..

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #1365 of 1405 Old 05-28-2015, 11:30 AM
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Andy I would put them under the floor, infinite baffle!
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Will these mount in the ceiling or should i set them in the attic for best immersive sound?
HA!
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post #1367 of 1405 Old 08-11-2015, 07:31 AM
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Cool Cinema Atmos Speaker placements updated last week

LINK
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post #1368 of 1405 Old 10-21-2015, 04:41 PM
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which would be better 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 setup?
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post #1369 of 1405 Old 10-21-2015, 07:05 PM
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which would be better 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 setup?
Better ask that in the home Atmos thread.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1370 of 1405 Old 10-23-2015, 10:11 AM
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Absolutely fabulous ... if you're building a 50x100x25 room.

Small room acoustics are a different animal.

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post #1371 of 1405 Old 10-23-2015, 01:28 PM
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Absolutely fabulous ... if you're building a 50x100x25 room.

Small room acoustics are a different animal.
Not sure what you're referring to. In that document Dolby specifies most values in angles and the speaker number plots go down to room dimensions of 6.1m (20').

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post #1372 of 1405 Old 10-23-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Not sure what you're referring to. In that document Dolby specifies most values in angles and the speaker number plots go down to room dimensions of 6.1m (20').
There's a bit of work left to do there. If you think it translates well, enjoy.

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post #1373 of 1405 Old 10-23-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post
There's a bit of work left to do there. If you think it translates well, enjoy.
Dolby obviously thinks it "translates well" or why did they define speaker numbers down to 6.1m?

By the way, "translates well" – there is no standard or conclusive scientific studies I know of that would define how a movie "translates well" to an acoustically small space. Dolby doesn't deliver any specs how the sound field in a small room should look like. There isn't even concensus on how the sound field in dubbing stages and movie theaters should look like or why is there a SMPTE/AES working group looking at this right now?

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post #1374 of 1405 Old 10-23-2015, 02:51 PM
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I am aware of the working groups (about time... understanding of small room acoustics is a field needing significant attention. (I am a member of both organizations.)

As I said, Markus, you can do and believe as you wish. I am not here to start or participate in a debate. Four ceiling speakers, low ceiling height and multiple rows of seats do not mix nor perform at all well...except for a single seat.

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post #1375 of 1405 Old 10-23-2015, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
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As I said, Markus, you can do and believe as you wish.
My beliefs are secondary. I'm referring to the paper by Dolby and it delivers specs for rooms down to 6.1m dimensions. That's a fact. You've said that it wouldn't translate into small rooms without delivering any valid argument why this would be the case.

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I am not here to start or participate in a debate.
So why are you here, participating in a DISCUSSION forum?

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Four ceiling speakers, low ceiling height and multiple rows of seats do not mix nor perform at all well...except for a single seat.
Are we talking at cross purposes here? CINERAMAX linked to the Atmos cinema specs not the Atmos home theater specs.

Markus

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post #1376 of 1405 Old 10-24-2015, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post
I am aware of the working groups (about time... understanding of small room acoustics is a field needing significant attention..........
"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole

By this criteria, string theory / M theory is a religion, not a science.

It is interesting to keep coming upon these type of debates or disagreements or viewpoints on AVS.
Dr Toole is well known and respected in audiovisual circles for his work in the field and rightly so.
At the 5m35s point of this video: Is Auto Room EQ and Setup in AV Receivers Useful? (http://www.audioholics.com/room-acou...p-av-receivers) Gene DellaSala mentions Dr Toole's views on auto EQ above the rooms transition frequency (200-300Hz for small room acoustics).
Now 200-300hz is a pretty small and low slice of our capacity to hear sound yet many people on these forums, including installers and experienced, professional calibrators use auto and non-auto EQ tools or machines in their clients' home theatres at frequencies well above 200-300Hz.
And good luck to them, the "science" however is dubious, to say the least.

We accept certain "scientific" practices and views when they support or seem to support our opinions or views or experiences and disregard them when they don't.
Very human and understandable.
But going down this path is very much a two edged sword.
As Dennis correctly states, " understanding of small room acoustics is a field needing significant attention" which means that the so called "science" is dubious and standards based on that "science" are dubious.
Some people seem to have a need to believe that some "scientific" claim is rock solid or Biblical in it's truthfulness or veracity.
Modern science is as uncertain as the Bible (apologies to the conventionally religious amongst us, I'm sure their interpretation of the Bible is perfect. )
Play the "science" card with caution, you are standing on very shaky ground, IMO and, far more importantly, according to modern science itself.
Use your tools and testing equipment and "scientific" standards all you like.
Just be aware that that same approach can be used to tear your conclusions to shreds and have just as much "scientific" support or veracity.
Better, IMO, to listen to the experience of someone like Dennis Erskine or Peter Cineramax who are respected within the AV community and known for their actual achievements rather than relying on the so-called "science".

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post #1377 of 1405 Old 10-25-2015, 02:55 AM
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You're completely missing the point. Dennis Erskine questioned a link posted by CINERAMAX.
Not sure why you refer to the Toole quote in my signature. You don't seem to understand its meaning and the difference between the scientific method and religion. If you want to talk about epistemology this is the wrong thread.
I referred to Dr Toole's quote and made the admittedly cheap crack about string theory because now days the distinction between modern science (including the science of sound) and religion is very murky and unclear. Many people (especially those with an engineering background) have faith that "science" is clear cut and precise and gives black and white answers but that is faith, not science.
IMO, Dennis Erskine was right to question the relevance of the link to normal sized home theatre rooms and immersive sound systems such as Dolby Atmos, based on his considerable experience in this field and the science of sound.
It's certainly nothing personal, this kind of debate occurs again and again on AVS.
I like to hope that one day people will spend the time to do some actual scientific research or reading on the science of sound waves, direct and reflecting, and the psycho-acoustics of human hearing before invoking "science" in their posts.
Then they would have a better grasp on why people such as Dr Toole place caveats or limitations on EQ above the 200-300Hz range, for example.

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post #1378 of 1405 Old 10-25-2015, 02:58 AM
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[...]
You're completely missing the point. Dennis Erskine questioned the contents of a link posted by CINERAMAX.

Not sure why you refer to the Toole quote in my signature, but you don't seem to understand its meaning and the difference between the scientific method and religion. If you want to talk about epistemology this is the wrong thread.

Markus

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post #1379 of 1405 Old 10-25-2015, 03:11 AM
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I referred to Dr Toole's quote and made the admittedly cheap crack about string theory because now days the distinction between modern science (including the science of sound) and religion is very murky and unclear.
That's a misconception. The scientific method is rather well defined.

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Many people (especially those with an engineering background) have faith that "science" is clear cut and precise and gives black and white answers but that is faith, not science.
Engineers aren't scientists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catonic View Post
IMO, Dennis Erskine was right to question the relevance of the link to normal sized home theatre rooms and immersive sound systems such as Dolby Atmos, based on his considerable experience in this field and the science of sound.
Dolby invented Dolby Atmos. They spec'd it down to 6.1m. So if one thinks a system defined by Dolby does not "work" within the specs defined by Dolby then he has to offer a little bit more than "I'm an expert, it doesn't translate to small rooms".

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Originally Posted by catonic View Post
It's certainly nothing personal, this kind of debate occurs again and again on AVS.
I like to hope that one day people will spend the time to do some actual scientific research or reading on the science of sound waves, direct and reflecting, and the psycho-acoustics of human hearing before invoking "science" in their posts.
I wish there would be more scientific studies that research sound fields, recording techniques and perception in acoustically small rooms. There is virtually nothing conclusive. Any "expert" can sell anything and we've seen exactly that happening for example in control room design over the last decades. Short summary in https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ic-design.html

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #1380 of 1405 Old 10-25-2015, 04:05 AM
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Markus: re post order.

Either there is a ghost in the machine or one (or both of us) have been time travelling!!
Certainly modern science allows for such possibilities, as do some of the more "out there" religions.
Probably there is a much more mundane explanation, synchronicity perhaps.
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