Dolby Atmos Theatre System - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1291 Old 05-02-2012, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Would it be accurate to describe Atmos as almost like a 'resolution enhancement' in terms of sound spacialization? As in, a helicopter sound has to move from the front of the room to the back. Atmos can do it with a standard 5.1 configuration, or it could take advantage of 16 speakers along the ceiling by moving the same sound through those speakers... So it just increases the 'resolution' of the sound panning front to back by using more speakers to fill out the movement, like more pixels in a television...

Exactly. Not only more pixels, but pixels in places there were none before.

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post #182 of 1291 Old 05-02-2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

That's because they aren't similar: one is an object-based mixing/rendering system while the other is room correction.

I was going to take issue with this under the assumption that you meant RC = EQ, but under the expanded definition of spatial correction I see your point.

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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Not really the same thing, though, in my understanding.

First, there is no Trinnov encoder...

True, but there's no encoded material today nor will there be any significant amount for some time to come.

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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

...And not just for 7 sounds (speakers), but for every individual sound object in the program.

This makes me realize I'm not at all clear on just what a sound object is; is it a sound or group of sounds which always emanate from the same location (relative to each other, not space)?

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post #183 of 1291 Old 05-02-2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

This makes me realize I'm not at all clear on just what a sound object is; is it a sound or group of sounds which always emanate from the same location (relative to each other, not space)?

A sound object is simply a sound file with additional meta data. The meta data defines where the sound should emanate from within a three dimensional space.

The renderer decides how that data is used within a given speaker layout. It could use the nearest speaker or try to build phantom sources between two and more speakers or use more advanced techniques that try to create a wave field.

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post #184 of 1291 Old 05-03-2012, 02:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

True, but there's no encoded material today nor will there be any significant amount for some time to come.

What I meant by "there is no encoder" is there's no tool or algorithm to create encoded dynamic spatial signals for a Trinnov renderer. All the other 3D systems have renderers designed and in operation.

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post #185 of 1291 Old 05-03-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

A sound object is simply a sound file with additional meta data. The meta data defines where the sound should emanate from within a three dimensional space.

To elaborate for Noah....

The metadata isn't static.... it does define where the sound emanates within the listening environment, it can dynamically change (for an easy example the object could be a helicopter sound effect that flies all across the room...)

You can also use, for example, 5 objects that would be a 5 channel music spread that you you can put on the walls and in the overhead ceiling speakers and you can plea them there as a static object that doesn't move over time.

What's important in Marcus' point to understand is that this metadata information can then be used by the renderer to "map" the original intension of the mixers when playing back in a system with less (or more) speakers than it was originally mixed on..

As Roger noted, if the system has better resolution than what the content was created on, you will get a better resolution (i.e. more pinpointed and/or refined pans, greater accuracy, etc..) upon playback.

As you can see, it's an entirely different thing than speaker remapping as employed by Trinnov...
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post #186 of 1291 Old 05-04-2012, 03:42 PM
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thanks for the explanations

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post #187 of 1291 Old 05-12-2012, 05:14 PM
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As only an observer mostly trying to infer the longer term impact on Home Theater, I was interested to read this 5/8/2012 screendigest article "Cinema sound becomes a competitive environment again" (link). It seems to suggest there is (about to be) more of an "audio oriented" struggle for the hearts, minds, ears, and wallets of the high street movie-going public than I had heretofore believed . . . and that we might soon expect to be making our movie and|or theater choices by considering the availability of Dolby Atmos, Immsound, Iosono, Auro 11.1, and Illusonic 3D sound as an additional characteristic.

[I have to wonder just how capable is the average theater goer to make a critical discrimination between these five 'enhanced sound' technologies...?! ]

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post #188 of 1291 Old 05-12-2012, 08:09 PM
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Maybe Smell-o-Vision will make a comeback in commercial cinemas?


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post #189 of 1291 Old 05-12-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Maybe Smell-o-Vision will make a comeback in commercial cinemas?

I experience Smell-O-Vison every time I got to the cinema, and it is not an attraction.*



*Major exceptions are Arclight cinemas.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #190 of 1291 Old 05-13-2012, 06:11 AM
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post #191 of 1291 Old 05-16-2012, 02:30 PM
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Yeah,I don't think I want to know what an ogre smells like,best left up to the imagination.


By the way,on the subject of Trinnov,isn't it going to be part of the Doremi DCI equipment package?
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post #192 of 1291 Old 05-16-2012, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

By the way,on the subject of Trinnov, isn't it going to be part of the Doremi DCI equipment package?

Here's the PR from 2010. It appears to focus on EQ, but I do not see evidence of it in their current products.

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post #193 of 1291 Old 05-16-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

By the way, on the subject of Trinnov, isn't it going to be part of the Doremi DCI equipment package?

Perhaps Doremi has decided on a different "audio partner": This 12/5/2011 Barco Press Release "Barco and Doremi partner to develop industry's first DCI-compliant next-generation 3D sound system" (link) states:
Quote:
"Kortrijk, Belgium, 5 December 2011 - Barco, a key player in digital cinema technology, has teamed up with media block technology leader Doremi to bring the first DCI-compliant 3D sound system to the cinema market. Auro-3D®, powered by Barco and Auro Technologies, is an audio system that creates true 3D sound. Doremi will integrate the Auro-3D® codec in their Integrated Media Block (IMB) to create the first DCI-compliant multi-channel audio format for cinema exhibitors. [. . .]"



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post #194 of 1291 Old 05-18-2012, 11:14 AM
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Does anyone know what sample rates Atmos works with? I can't find this information online.

The recent announcment of the Dolby TrueHD upconversion of 48 kHz material to 96 kHz prompted me to think of this. Will movies still be mastered largely in 48 kHz, or will Atmos encourage higher sample rates?
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post #195 of 1291 Old 05-18-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post

Does anyone know what sample rates Atmos works with? I can't find this information online.

The recent announcment of the Dolby TrueHD upconversion of 48 kHz material to 96 kHz prompted me to think of this. Will movies still be mastered largely in 48 kHz, or will Atmos encourage higher sample rates?

DCP supports 48k or 96k..

I don't think Atmos has any bearing on what sample rate we choose to use.

It's harder to implement on the production side of thing for many reasons, but more pertinent is that it cut's all of your audio resources in half.. half the channel count, half the DSP..

In addition, on the venue side, you run into the same issue... doubled processing power needed for EQ and delays..

On the subject of Dolby's new 96k up sampling tech for TureHD..

Color me skeptical..
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post #196 of 1291 Old 05-18-2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

DCP supports 48k or 96k..

I don't think Atmos has any bearing on what sample rate we choose to use.

It's harder to implement on the production side of thing for many reasons, but more pertinent is that it cut's all of your audio resources in half.. half the channel count, half the DSP...

So you're saying going over 96k would be difficult?

From what I can tell, DCP has the bandwidth to support 16 channels at 96k. From the system spec:
Quote:


The Media Network is required to support sustained rate of 307 Mbits/sec for compressed image (250 Mbits/sec), audio (37.87 Mbits/sec - 16 channels, 24 bit sample, 96 KHz) and subtitle data (subpicture 20 MBits/sec) for each screen.

Audio - This interface is required to stream multiple digital audio channels to the Cinema Audio Processor. This is required to be in an AES3 format. For worst-case audio bandwidth, 37 Mbits/sec is required (16 channels * 24 bit sample * 96 kHz = 37 Mbits/sec).

Bandwidth
The storage system is required to provide enough output to support a continuous stream of 307 Mbits/sec for compressed image, uncompressed audio (16 channels, 24 bit sample, 96 kHz) and subtitle data to allow for non interrupted Digital Cinema playback.

It seems to me that you could fit 8 channels of 24-bit 192k audio in the same bandwidth, but it wouldn't be backwards compatible with existing DCP spec.

Dobly has stated that Atmos will be delivered in a "Backwards-compatible" DCP, but it will have 128 channels, well above the 16 allowed in the standard. I'm guessing this means they employ the standard 8 channels in the DCP, and the Atmos is an extension of the format?
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post #197 of 1291 Old 05-18-2012, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post

Dolby has stated that Atmos will be delivered in a "Backwards-compatible" DCP, but it will have 128 channels, well above the 16 allowed in the standard. I'm guessing this means they employ the standard 8 channels in the DCP, and the Atmos is an extension of the format?

The new Atmos files are carried as separate file on the DCP, and thus is not constrained by the 16-ch standard.

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post #198 of 1291 Old 05-18-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Here's the PR from 2010. It appears to focus on EQ, but I do not see evidence of it in their current products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Perhaps Doremi has decided on a different "audio partner": This 12/5/2011 Barco Press Release "Barco and Doremi partner to develop industry’s first DCI-compliant next-generation 3D sound system" (link) states:


This is the link to Trinnov's site that mentions them and Doremi and Trinnov's EQ tech being utilized.I don't know how old the info is.

http://www.trinnov.com/products/digi...se/?lang=en_us

Sorry about that Roger.I couldn't click the link you referred,so I didn't know it was the same as the one I posted.lol!
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post #199 of 1291 Old 05-21-2012, 12:26 AM
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Looks like AMC, the theatre chain working with Dolby to help test Atmos, will have new owners.

Sanjay
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post #200 of 1291 Old 05-21-2012, 08:11 AM
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Wow

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #201 of 1291 Old 05-22-2012, 03:17 PM
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So much for trying to curb piracy!
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post #202 of 1291 Old 05-22-2012, 03:18 PM
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Maybe it will behoove them to reevaluate their stance on that.


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post #203 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 07:01 AM
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Attended a Dolby presentation yesterday and it looks like channels will stay with us for much longer than I had hoped for.
One interesting tidbit: There's a feature "snap to nearest speaker" which probably prevents the unwanted phantom imaging issue that came up earlier in this thread.

Markus

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post #204 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Attended a Dolby presentation yesterday and it looks like channels will stay with us for much longer than I had hoped for.

Please explain.
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post #205 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ To save posts, we can revisit #141-146.

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post #206 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

^^ To save posts, we can revisit #141-146.

I still don't understand what is a new revelation about how these systems work, that's all... and just curious.

Why is it "surprising" that channels are still with us?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding Markus' disappointment, but this isn't a new way to reproduce sound, ala Iosono...

Even with that system, they found it very difficult to move away from having "channels", especially behind the screen, due to the fact that film, as we know it today, will always be a 2D image projected onto a flat wall, and the audience will always be focused, and facing, forward...
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post #207 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 06:30 PM
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I emailed Dolby asking about the sample rates Atmos supports. This is the response I got:
Quote:


Thank you for contacting Dolby and for you interest in Dolby Atmos.

The current implementation of Dolby Atmos supports sample rates up to 24bit / 96kHz. However, at this sample rate you would be limited to 64 object / channel streams (still with 64 speaker feeds / rendered outputs), as apposed to 128 object / channel streams when operating at 24bit / 48kHz and (again with 64 speaker feeds / rendered outputs).

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post #208 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

^^ To save posts, we can revisit #141-146.

Zactly.
Dolby is very much listening to what content creators have to say and in the end this will not be a revolution but an evolution.

Markus

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post #209 of 1291 Old 05-23-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post


Zactly.
Dolby is very much listening to what content creators have to say and in the end this will not be a revolution but an evolution.

What do define as a revolution?
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post #210 of 1291 Old 05-24-2012, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

What do define as a revolution?

Objects only mixes could be a real revolution but that's probably not feasible for various reasons. For example, Brave is mixed in 7.1 and then gets the Atmos treatment.

Let's see how everything develops (especially now that AMC got sold). After the presentation I had the feeling the whole system is still under development.

On a side note, I believe the built-in room correction is a big step forward. Currently the whole X-curve correction is based more on beliefs and not on proper science. I've seen frequency response curves from different theaters and they showed such huge variations (even after 1/3 octave based correction) that it really didn't matter much what the underlying curve was. With Atmos any target curve can be closely matched. This makes it much easier to reveal the underlying parameters for timbre and loudness.

They could also apply something similar to Dolby Volume because it's common (bad) practice for theater owners to arbitrarily change playback volume based on consumer reports ("The movie was too loud" vs. "I couldn't understand the dialog").

Markus

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