Buying a commercial cinema projector for my home theater... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

And after reading the forum and knowing that there are folks with and installing these in homes(and have been) you still feel DCI units aren't for HT. What do you think of those who are using them now with great success ? PS, Please answer the question diectly .

Art

In my own opinion. A commercial projector belongs in commercial operation, not a HT. It's like driving a bus for your daily transportation.


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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Well I will be sure to tell the C.I Companies that I know that they should Refund the Barco, Christie, NEC and Large SIM2, and Digital Projection Projectors because they are wrong. I am sorry but on the basis that because it is made for a Commercial Environment it shouldn't be used at home no one should use Procella, Dynaudio, Genelec, Quested, Datasat, JBL, Lab Gruppen etc etc at home either.

Basically all Custom Theater installers, including Keith Yates, Norman Varney, Cineramax, Christopher Hansen, Bradford Wells etc are Wrong. Wow what amazing insight......


Perhaps this would be better for you :

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post #93 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post

In my own opinion. A commercial projector belongs in commercial operation, not a HT. It's like driving a bus for your daily transportation.

If the home theater owner wants lots of light ,better color, and/or the ability to watch DCI content in his home and has accounted for the increased noise ,ventilation requirements and device bulk, then DCI units are the only answer. Your response would only be true for someone who could get equal performance from a unit designed for the home from the outset. If I had 15 children I might prefer a bus for day to day driving.

Art


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post #94 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 10:20 AM
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Buses are underrated. They offer so much more space than your average compact. And they are big enough for an Optoma and drop down screen if you take a few seats out. You'll have more time to enjoy driving too since the Optoma requires no calibration.
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post #95 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 10:33 AM
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Stuffed Closet, now where is that pair of videos of those little latino guys shoving it in way over their heads;-).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=codVul0zxuo
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post #96 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post

Now to get this hijacked thread back on track about the subject at hand, that is, can a commercial projector (DCI) be used in a home theater environment.

This not an easy question nor an easy answer. Should you install this yourself? Should you get someone to install it? Can you operate it? Can you do the daily required maintenance on it? Are you prepared for the up keep? Are you prepared for the cost of service? Is it worth it? These are questions you have to answer for yourself, based on your knowledge of electronics. like i stated, it is not an easy question. There is plenty to think about and consider. Below we further dwell into this question, as well as the characteristics of commercial projectors there pluses and pitfalls.

After watching this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5O_Gl3ycmc

You still think a DCI projector is OK for home use?

Flipping content on a commercial projector is not like flipping the channels on your TV, nor is it like your TV when flipping inputs. Most, if not all, cable and satellite set top boxes out put interlaced signals. This is because most of the programming is filmed in 480i/1080i. As these signals are way more easy to transmit thru existing infrastructure. Even today, programs on TV in 1080p are rare. These signals work with no commercial projector.  To get them to work requires a expensive converter to convert them from interlaced into progressive signals that the matrix of the TI can read and processed in the light engine of the projector and shot onto the screen. You will run into problems here when switching from blue ray players to video game console and terrestrial antenna channels
.

All scripted episodic HDTV is mastered at 1080/24P. (actually 23.98Sf which is a trick to get the signal through interlaced equipment) This has been the case since the first prime time HDTV season starting 1999 on CBS. Yes, the delivery is 1080i, but is easily de-telecined back to 24P. The Christie, Barco, and NEC projectors have no issues at all deinterlacing 1080i material originated as 24p. While most all reality TV is in fact shot 1080i, any good scaler can be used to feed a DCI projector. Switching problems? That's easily handled with broadcast grade switching gear and Crestron or other high and automation systems.
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Another hang up that is nothing new to commercial projectors is Digital. Yep. Your digital commercial projector has problems with digital content. The vast majority of movie houses are using digital projection. And a significant number is inputting analog signals into there digital projectors, simply because, what source they have is reliable and trouble free, it works and they use it. This has been a know standard for over a decade as digital content was first in commercial projectors,but was not as embraced as say, the dvd player was. To clean this up and not get over technical, this is the easy way to explain digital versus analog signals.  Digital signal=Inconsistent signal. Analog=Consistent signal. The two will not interchange without expensive convertors that are made into the boards on the projector. This is a problem if you would like to watch your vhs collection of classic movies on a vcr with your commercial projector with a input board that is digital. Then you need a converter.

Huh? DCI links are SMPTE 292 HDSDI which is a standard broadcast DIGITAL interface. Yes, it runs over a plain old BNC video cable but it is an uncompressed digital signal. In fact that's the only signal the CP2000 head will accept. If you want analog you must have the Christie format converter box or a competitive unit like a Teranex. All DCI projectors support HDSDI. HDMI is not found on the larger units but the newer smaller DCI projectors do have HDMI.

Additional case and point - analog links are not allowed under MPAA policies. HDSDI is an open link however when used in DCI, the video is scrambled and the keys are exchanged over an Ethernet link between the DCI server and the projector head. I know of no situation where analog video would be used with a studio supplied DCI package. Do you think for one minute the studios would allow open analog signal transmission of first run DCI content? eek.gif
Quote:
HDCP compliant is still a very big headache for anyone in the commercial projector industry. Basically it's copyright protection. So when you try to hook up your blue ray or dvd to your commercial projector one HDCP issue can cause three syndromes. Sound with red, green and blue bars across the screen or the white screen and no sound. The picture freezes and the sound track keeps playing. What this means is that the HDCP protocols can not do there hand shake, and the projector thinks the content as pirated, or illegal. Same issue with HDTV's.

Some new smaller DCI projectors do support HDCP but I will agree it's a problem for HT use.
Quote:
Noise. All commercial projectors, even laser ones, make a lot of noise. Noise levels range between 84 to 91 decibels with the projector running and around 69 to 74 decibels in standby. These levels vary dramatically between the projector manufactures and models. The noise is a machine whirring noise. Now if someone is standing 10 feet from you and talking loudly and you find discomfort in this noise level, you need to rethink you pursuit of a commercial projector and explore other quieter consumer models.

Heat. Commercial projectors once operating, generate a lot of heat that is required to be vented from the projection room. There is a long list of heat generating sources on a commercial projector. These are both inside the hood and outside on the rack. The Xenon lamp is just one. So you have to have a ventilation system to remove this heat from the projection room. More on this subject later.

Lamps. No way around it, they have to be changed before there useful hour life is reached. If you have one hour of lamp life left and are starting a two hour movie, your pressing your luck. Rule of thumb, replace the lamp with in 8 hours of it's maximum stated life. Lamp hours depending on a lot of things, namely what the power setting are, the brand, and it's construction. Most lamp manufactures warranty there lamp's for the first 90 days or 250 to 500 hours against defects. I see a real problem with a HT installed commercial projector getting a warranty on a lamp that expired prematurely. In the commercial cinema industry, networking allows snap shots of every variable of a projector, this is used in the event a lamp prematurely expired, and a host of other things. Most HT settings are not going to have there projector on a network connecting the manufacture. Lamps are charged with inert gasses, they are under pressure. This pressure will cause the lamp to literately explode outwards should it be over used or dropped. This is different from your basic incandescent home light bulb that is holding a vacuum that pulls the glass in should it be dropped. Some lamps are also liquid cooled. They need to be stored and handled with care. Lamp change out is a straight forward process, but it is nothing like changing your light bulb in a lamp. Once your lamp is changed it may, or may not require a basic calibration of the projector. Commercial projector lamps operate on a spark principle. This spark is similar to what is used in HID headlights on certain cars. The electric ark is fired from either a tungsten or carbide tip across to a similar tip. Metal Halide tips were experimented with, but the blue hue made them not susceptible for projector use.  This spark on the visible spectrum of colors is as purest white as can be man made, that is why this is used as you want the whitest and cleanest light you can get to go from the lamp housing to the light engine. you will hear terms like "short arc" and "long arc" these describe the difference in lamp types in use and is self explanatory. The byproduct of this type of lamp is high heat generation. Wattage has never been really a standard in commercial projection. Most of these lamps are in the 2000 to 5000 watt range, depending on the projector make and model. The newer "pure white" lamps are in the 6000K  color range and some are close to 80,000 lumens of light out put. Very brite, you do not want that much light hitting you in the eye on the way to the rest room. Lamp price varies from credible suppliers and sources. This one says this and this one says that. I purchase strictly from the manufacture, if that is not possible from there recommended supplier. Shaky suppliers will get you shaky lamps, that may have no warranty.

Lenses. There is much customization that can be done with lenses. Anamorphic, short throw, long throw. Just to name a few. Short and long throw is pretty simple. Depending on the distance between your screen and projector will determine if you need any of these. If your screen is far from your projector, then you need a long throw lens. If your screen is close to your projector, you need a short throw lens. The purpose of this is to "throw" the projected image at the screen without visual distortion and keeps the image within the boundaries of the screen. Anamorphic or 2:35.1 or 2:40.1 content requires a anamorphic lens to project that familiar widescreen cinema look. If you are watching 16:9 content you do not need the anamorphic lens. The operation of the anamorphic lens is controlled thru either a rs23 port or automation. It is not a simple feat. It is more of precision then most average people give it.

Automation control. I think that covers it all. Automation is used for a multiple of things, mostly mundane tasks. Lowering the light level in the auditorium, raising the light levels, operating the screen masks, curtains, turning the data projector on or off even closing and opening the house doors. On some set up's the automation board starts the soundtrack in que with the projector. I haven't seen that done in awhile.

Screen aspect and input and output resolution. Unfortunately it is impossible to discuss these separately they need to be addressed together because, they have a equal effect on each other. All top end commercial projectors are what is know as "Constant height screen aspect" This means the height of the screen stays the same no mater the source ratio. In layman terms, the screen is always filled top to bottom and the width of the projected image change when changing from 4:3 to 16:9 to 2:35.1 or even 2:40.1 or the other less used screen aspects. Input and output resolution do not depend on each other. They do affect the screen aspect in different ways. All newer commercial digital projectors, since at least 2004, have been geared for the higher end of resolution output, and a lower resolution of input. This has only recently been challenged and rethinked. This is were scaling and up conversion took off. Your average commercial projector will display from 640x480 to 4096x2160 on a DDWG DVI input source. And not much between. The problem arise when you try to display content thru the projector it was not designed to handle. This problem really comes up when the source is a computer. Let's say you want to do a 1680x1060 standard resolution on a laptop thru your commercial projector. You will get an image that is centered in the screen and half the size of the screen with black bars on all four sides as the software and components "thinks" this is the way to do it. By simply zooming in, you have forced an aspect change and now have the screen door effect. The simple way to do this, is simply lower the computer resolution to a resolution supported by the projector.

DLP(Digital Light Processing). LCD(Liquid Crystal Display). LCoS(Liquid Crystal on Silicon). This is the recognized standards in projector light output processing and rendering. There is many new technologies coming out, and some old defunct ones. I am not going into any detail on how any of these work. If you do not know, then i suggest you search for them and read up. DLP is by far the standard that many commercial projectors use. You have probably seen the trademark displayed on the screen of a cinema and gave it no notice. Upside to DLP, when the mirror is off, the blacks are black, not gray. Downside, some people get the rainbow effect. LCD, upside good contrast. Downside, blacks look gray. LCoS, upside, very brite. Downside, very pricey. LCoS had a small push into commercial projectors, however it was not a seller and was removed from the line up after one year. It is becoming prevalent in consumer projectors. And there is many people in the industry saying LCoS is coming back in force. Time will tell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_on_silicon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_projector
OK i will be nice and save you the trouble of searching.

Audio. There is many, many ,many formats, set ups, sound boards, amps to go into detail here. Each commercial projector manufacture makes there own audio equipment to complement there projectors. There is no wrong or right way. It depends on what you plan to watch and how you want to listen to it. 2.0,2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1. 7.2, 16.5. Wide selection of audio capabilities to meet any audio requirement. It comes down to what your ears can bear.

Projector booth. There is no way around this. With the noise and heat generation you simply have to have a booth for a commercial projector. You also need quality sound insulation as well as a separate HVAC system for the projector booth. Commercial projectors are like any other electronic device. They have temperature minimums and maximums that must be maintained to get the best possible viewing experience and longevity of the projector. For a HT your home HVAC will not provide adequate cooling for a projector booth, hence the need for a separate contained system. Dirt and dust is a commercial projectors worse enemy. The projection booth must be well filtered, not hospital filtered, but the more the better. A powered exhaust vent of not less than 500cfm must be connected to the projectors exhaust stack, preferably with insulated ducting. The exhaust vent must be wired to always be on when the projector is powered up either in use or in standby mode. The projection booth should be above the seating level to prevent someone being accidentally blinded by the light output. The projector both should be equipped with a locking door to prevent unauthorized access. Commercial projectors run on 240 volt AC or 480 volt AC on three phase 60 hertz(North America). Commercial projectors are not toys and should never be treated like toys. Kids, people with a problem keeping there hand hands off stuff, should not be allowed access to the projector. Someone who is trained, and experienced with the projector should be the only one operating it.

Screen. This is always a source of endless debate. Flat, Curved, Fixed frame hung, Suspended. Silver, black, white. All the before mentioned applies to you in one way. The size of the screen you plan to project on. Any application 30 feet or less. Flat, Fixed. Silver. 31 feet to 60 feet. Flat. Hung. Silver. 61 feet to 105 feet. Curved. Suspended. Silver. All your front speakers and sub woofers will be behind the screen. The silver color is from the aluminum embedded into the cotton giving it the "Sliver screen" look. The screen material is also very reflective and recommended for 3D use. White is what the old timers used as it was a thick cotton weave, and white in color. This is still used in a lot of 2D cinemas. Black is a new one. There is a company in Austin, Texas Elite screens who patented a black screen under the trademark Black Diamond. This has great reviews from the HT crowd and consumer projector manufactures. As far as i know it has not been installed in any commercial cinema applications. Flat screens will work in the majority of applications. Curved screens came about as the solution to alignment problems on the extreme corners of the screen. Some mistakenly believe that it has to do with how the light reaches the screen. Light travels at the speed of light, hitting the center and corner of the screen at the same time. The curved screen was also the answer to the viewing experience to those sitting in wall seats, and gives the illusion of being surrounded by the screen, giving an equal view from any viewing area. Screen fabric is lite. For smaller screen the only way to go is fixed frame and hung. The reason for this is that the speakers behind the screen will actually make the screen bellow like a sheet in the wind. Most large curved screens are suspended, as the weight is there to keep them from having the blowing effect. Suspended is a misleading term. The screen is on a aluminum frame that is supported from cables attached to ceiling supports on the top and secured to the floor with cables attached on the bottom. As weird as this may sound, it offers indefinite adjust ability with the projector to get the angles correct. There is also cables attached to the sides. The weight of the aluminum frame and the fabric keep the frame still. If you look closely, no big screen theater has any HVAC vents pointed towards the screen. The openings around the screen are most times covered by drapes. AMC uses this a lot. Go look for yourself. Screens mounted with tensions boards on brick walls is something that is not used much any more as the thing is to hide the center channel behind the screen as well as the sub woofers. Hard attached screens are a dinosaur in cinemas. This is simply nailing, tacking, or stapling the screen to wooden or plastic risers. Removal was a pain as you had to remove all the nails, tacks, staples to make sure you did not tear the new screen while it was being put in position. And not to be forgotten, as this process is years gone, glue. Yep. All drive inns and a lot of 80's new construction cinema screens were glued into place on a smooth concrete or wooden wall. Yes it was very labor intensive to change out a screen done like this. After awhile the surface would become less than perfect and show it, thru highs and lows in the screen, or the screen material would start to separate from the wall and sag at the corners. Oh yes while i am on this, paint. Another failed way to get a screen up cheaply, mostly drive inns. Everything drive inns did was on the super cheap.

So if you still think a commercial projector is the way to go in your HT, get acquainted with these manufactures, that is what they do.

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/pages/default.aspx

http://www.barco.com/en/?gclid=CLDer6bGsr4CFeUF7AodCRUAbQ

http://www.necdisplay.com/category/digital-cinema-projectors  (funny thing is i always call NEC, JVC for some odd reason.)

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-projectors/

Before you get excited, be aware that commercial projectors are sold thru authorized sellers and installers only. Don't be surprised if they want to have there representative view your site or plans. They reserve that right. You will not find them in Sams club, Costco, Best Buy or amazon. You can find used models on Ebay and cheap Chinese lamps that i would never put in anything. Another thing to keep in mind, is that commercial projectors are sold as components. you may see a commercial projector setting on its stand and think that is the whole package. It is not, what you are looking at is a dozen components sold separately that make it up.

In my own opinion. A commercial projector belongs in commercial operation, not a HT. It's like driving a bus for your daily transportation.

Again, you grossly underestimate the financial resources some of these users have. What's the big deal about a projection booth? These are 7 figure plus custom homes. Ditto that for dedicated HVAC, three phase power, what ever it takes. And keep in mind few HT's will have CP2000. That is overkill. But Barco and NEC both make smaller DCI projectors that do not need excessive cooling, are quite enough for a simple closet, and will run on 208-240 single phase power. We use them at work in the smaller DCI work theaters. Only the big final timing theaters use CP2000s.

Research Peter's (Cinermax) threads here. He deals in this elite very high end and has posted many of his projects here.

So you can't buy them at Costco? That's silly. Do you think for one minute if anyone calls Christie, Barco, NEC and says they would like to buy a DCI projector, they're going to say no? Of course they will route through a sales rep. So what? Believe me, they will be all over you if you seem to have the money. Cash is cash!
Quote:
Audio. There is many, many ,many formats, set ups, sound boards, amps to go into detail here. Each commercial projector manufacture makes there own audio equipment to complement there projectors. There is no wrong or right way. It depends on what you plan to watch and how you want to listen to it. 2.0,2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1. 7.2, 16.5. Wide selection of audio capabilities to meet any audio requirement. It comes down to what your ears can bear.

Oh and what's this about? In know of no audio processors in the Christie, Barco, or NEC DCI line? The standard processor is still the Dolby CP650. DTS has their own box you must source from them, it's licesnsed, and Sony SDDS has it's own proprietary box. But these devices are made for film projection. You do not need or want one for an HT unless to plan film projection as well. DCI servers output 8 channel AES which all the processors I mention have an external 8 channel digital input. The DCI server takes care of all the audio decoding. As for amps, the most popular is QSC. Speakers are JBL.

But most high end home theaters would use a processor like an ADA, Theta, or other 5 figure unit and that is far better suited for HT use. IOW, unless you have film projection, you don't even want a pro theater audio system.

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post #97 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 11:27 AM
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Where the hell is Peter? I'm telling you, this really seems like a joke. Maybe Peter is suffering from personality disorder and this is his wacky alter ego. Maybe this is a cry for help. Or maybe this guy "CinemaAndy" us real in which case WTF???
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post #98 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post


Glimmie, although it is good to correct the troll on his misinformation but you are not entirely correct on a few points.

It's the larger DCI projectors that have DVI inputs with HDCP support. Some of the new small projectors don't have any inputs and instead rely on the server IMB inputs. Also HDCP support hasn't been any major problem since early series 1 projectors back in 2006-2008. It has been more of a problem with switchers and scalers that sometimes needs to be in the signal path.

DCI servers output 16 channels and christie actually has a sound processor in their vive audio line of products, I've never heard of anyone that actually bought one but I think they are being sold. Barco also has/had kind of an audio processor with their Auro sound system, it was an auro decoder based on a winxp pc and now they are selling the AP24 processor that is made by datasat. The standard processor today is probably the dolby CP750, I would guess that it has already sold more than the CP650 did simply because it is a fraction of the cost.
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post #99 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Axel Fransberg View Post

Glimmie, although it is good to correct the troll on his misinformation but you are not entirely correct on a few points.

It's the larger DCI projectors that have DVI inputs with HDCP support. Some of the new small projectors don't have any inputs and instead rely on the server IMB inputs. Also HDCP support hasn't been any major problem since early series 1 projectors back in 2006-2008. It has been more of a problem with switchers and scalers that sometimes needs to be in the signal path.

Hmmm, have about 10 CP2000s and I don't believe any have HDCP. Is it an option? We also have about four of the newer Christie series, the black ones, I don't remember the model. Do they have HDCP? I also know the NECs we have don't do HDCP. Our plant core is HDSDI and the only HDCP we get into are BluRay references and for that we have a player with HDSDI, under full acceptance of the studios of course. For BluRay QC, we just use plasmas that already have HDCP.
Quote:
DCI servers output 16 channels and christie actually has a sound processor in their vive audio line of products, I've never heard of anyone that actually bought one but I think they are being sold. Barco also has/had kind of an audio processor with their Auro sound system, it was an auro decoder based on a winxp pc and now they are selling the AP24 processor that is made by datasat. The standard processor today is probably the dolby CP750, I would guess that it has already sold more than the CP650 did simply because it is a fraction of the cost.

Yes that's correct. I was thinking of the CP650 which has only eight inputs.

Note my background is broadcast systems engineering. I only get heavily involved with the integration, electrical engineering, and HVAC of these mastering projection systems. We have a team of guys who are experts on the projectors themselves.

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post #100 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post

Now to get this hijacked thread back on track about the subject at hand, that is, can a commercial projector (DCI) be used in a home theater environment.

This not an easy question nor an easy answer. Should you install this yourself? Should you get someone to install it? Can you operate it? Can you do the daily required maintenance on it? Are you prepared for the up keep? Are you prepared for the cost of service? Is it worth it? These are questions you have to answer for yourself, based on your knowledge of electronics. like i stated, it is not an easy question. There is plenty to think about and consider. Below we further dwell into this question, as well as the characteristics of commercial projectors there pluses and pitfalls.

After watching this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5O_Gl3ycmc

You still think a DCI projector is OK for home use?

Flipping content on a commercial projector is not like flipping the channels on your TV, nor is it like your TV when flipping inputs. Most, if not all, cable and satellite set top boxes out put interlaced signals. This is because most of the programming is filmed in 480i/1080i. As these signals are way more easy to transmit thru existing infrastructure. Even today, programs on TV in 1080p are rare. These signals work with no commercial projector.  To get them to work requires a expensive converter to convert them from interlaced into progressive signals that the matrix of the TI can read and processed in the light engine of the projector and shot onto the screen. You will run into problems here when switching from blue ray players to video game console and terrestrial antenna channels.

Another hang up that is nothing new to commercial projectors is Digital. Yep. Your digital commercial projector has problems with digital content. The vast majority of movie houses are using digital projection. And a significant number is inputting analog signals into there digital projectors, simply because, what source they have is reliable and trouble free, it works and they use it. This has been a know standard for over a decade as digital content was first in commercial projectors,but was not as embraced as say, the dvd player was. To clean this up and not get over technical, this is the easy way to explain digital versus analog signals.  Digital signal=Inconsistent signal. Analog=Consistent signal. The two will not interchange without expensive convertors that are made into the boards on the projector. This is a problem if you would like to watch your vhs collection of classic movies on a vcr with your commercial projector with a input board that is digital. Then you need a converter.

HDCP compliant is still a very big headache for anyone in the commercial projector industry. Basically it's copyright protection. So when you try to hook up your blue ray or dvd to your commercial projector one HDCP issue can cause three syndromes. Sound with red, green and blue bars across the screen or the white screen and no sound. The picture freezes and the sound track keeps playing. What this means is that the HDCP protocols can not do there hand shake, and the projector thinks the content as pirated, or illegal. Same issue with HDTV's.

Noise. All commercial projectors, even laser ones, make a lot of noise. Noise levels range between 84 to 91 decibels with the projector running and around 69 to 74 decibels in standby. These levels vary dramatically between the projector manufactures and models. The noise is a machine whirring noise. Now if someone is standing 10 feet from you and talking loudly and you find discomfort in this noise level, you need to rethink you pursuit of a commercial projector and explore other quieter consumer models.

Heat. Commercial projectors once operating, generate a lot of heat that is required to be vented from the projection room. There is a long list of heat generating sources on a commercial projector. These are both inside the hood and outside on the rack. The Xenon lamp is just one. So you have to have a ventilation system to remove this heat from the projection room. More on this subject later.

Lamps. No way around it, they have to be changed before there useful hour life is reached. If you have one hour of lamp life left and are starting a two hour movie, your pressing your luck. Rule of thumb, replace the lamp with in 8 hours of it's maximum stated life. Lamp hours depending on a lot of things, namely what the power setting are, the brand, and it's construction. Most lamp manufactures warranty there lamp's for the first 90 days or 250 to 500 hours against defects. I see a real problem with a HT installed commercial projector getting a warranty on a lamp that expired prematurely. In the commercial cinema industry, networking allows snap shots of every variable of a projector, this is used in the event a lamp prematurely expired, and a host of other things. Most HT settings are not going to have there projector on a network connecting the manufacture. Lamps are charged with inert gasses, they are under pressure. This pressure will cause the lamp to literately explode outwards should it be over used or dropped. This is different from your basic incandescent home light bulb that is holding a vacuum that pulls the glass in should it be dropped. Some lamps are also liquid cooled. They need to be stored and handled with care. Lamp change out is a straight forward process, but it is nothing like changing your light bulb in a lamp. Once your lamp is changed it may, or may not require a basic calibration of the projector. Commercial projector lamps operate on a spark principle. This spark is similar to what is used in HID headlights on certain cars. The electric ark is fired from either a tungsten or carbide tip across to a similar tip. Metal Halide tips were experimented with, but the blue hue made them not susceptible for projector use.  This spark on the visible spectrum of colors is as purest white as can be man made, that is why this is used as you want the whitest and cleanest light you can get to go from the lamp housing to the light engine. you will hear terms like "short arc" and "long arc" these describe the difference in lamp types in use and is self explanatory. The byproduct of this type of lamp is high heat generation. Wattage has never been really a standard in commercial projection. Most of these lamps are in the 2000 to 5000 watt range, depending on the projector make and model. The newer "pure white" lamps are in the 6000K  color range and some are close to 80,000 lumens of light out put. Very brite, you do not want that much light hitting you in the eye on the way to the rest room. Lamp price varies from credible suppliers and sources. This one says this and this one says that. I purchase strictly from the manufacture, if that is not possible from there recommended supplier. Shaky suppliers will get you shaky lamps, that may have no warranty.

Lenses. There is much customization that can be done with lenses. Anamorphic, short throw, long throw. Just to name a few. Short and long throw is pretty simple. Depending on the distance between your screen and projector will determine if you need any of these. If your screen is far from your projector, then you need a long throw lens. If your screen is close to your projector, you need a short throw lens. The purpose of this is to "throw" the projected image at the screen without visual distortion and keeps the image within the boundaries of the screen. Anamorphic or 2:35.1 or 2:40.1 content requires a anamorphic lens to project that familiar widescreen cinema look. If you are watching 16:9 content you do not need the anamorphic lens. The operation of the anamorphic lens is controlled thru either a rs23 port or automation. It is not a simple feat. It is more of precision then most average people give it.

Automation control. I think that covers it all. Automation is used for a multiple of things, mostly mundane tasks. Lowering the light level in the auditorium, raising the light levels, operating the screen masks, curtains, turning the data projector on or off even closing and opening the house doors. On some set up's the automation board starts the soundtrack in que with the projector. I haven't seen that done in awhile.

Screen aspect and input and output resolution. Unfortunately it is impossible to discuss these separately they need to be addressed together because, they have a equal effect on each other. All top end commercial projectors are what is know as "Constant height screen aspect" This means the height of the screen stays the same no mater the source ratio. In layman terms, the screen is always filled top to bottom and the width of the projected image change when changing from 4:3 to 16:9 to 2:35.1 or even 2:40.1 or the other less used screen aspects. Input and output resolution do not depend on each other. They do affect the screen aspect in different ways. All newer commercial digital projectors, since at least 2004, have been geared for the higher end of resolution output, and a lower resolution of input. This has only recently been challenged and rethinked. This is were scaling and up conversion took off. Your average commercial projector will display from 640x480 to 4096x2160 on a DDWG DVI input source. And not much between. The problem arise when you try to display content thru the projector it was not designed to handle. This problem really comes up when the source is a computer. Let's say you want to do a 1680x1060 standard resolution on a laptop thru your commercial projector. You will get an image that is centered in the screen and half the size of the screen with black bars on all four sides as the software and components "thinks" this is the way to do it. By simply zooming in, you have forced an aspect change and now have the screen door effect. The simple way to do this, is simply lower the computer resolution to a resolution supported by the projector.

DLP(Digital Light Processing). LCD(Liquid Crystal Display). LCoS(Liquid Crystal on Silicon). This is the recognized standards in projector light output processing and rendering. There is many new technologies coming out, and some old defunct ones. I am not going into any detail on how any of these work. If you do not know, then i suggest you search for them and read up. DLP is by far the standard that many commercial projectors use. You have probably seen the trademark displayed on the screen of a cinema and gave it no notice. Upside to DLP, when the mirror is off, the blacks are black, not gray. Downside, some people get the rainbow effect. LCD, upside good contrast. Downside, blacks look gray. LCoS, upside, very brite. Downside, very pricey. LCoS had a small push into commercial projectors, however it was not a seller and was removed from the line up after one year. It is becoming prevalent in consumer projectors. And there is many people in the industry saying LCoS is coming back in force. Time will tell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_on_silicon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_projector
OK i will be nice and save you the trouble of searching.

Audio. There is many, many ,many formats, set ups, sound boards, amps to go into detail here. Each commercial projector manufacture makes there own audio equipment to complement there projectors. There is no wrong or right way. It depends on what you plan to watch and how you want to listen to it. 2.0,2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1. 7.2, 16.5. Wide selection of audio capabilities to meet any audio requirement. It comes down to what your ears can bear.

Projector booth. There is no way around this. With the noise and heat generation you simply have to have a booth for a commercial projector. You also need quality sound insulation as well as a separate HVAC system for the projector booth. Commercial projectors are like any other electronic device. They have temperature minimums and maximums that must be maintained to get the best possible viewing experience and longevity of the projector. For a HT your home HVAC will not provide adequate cooling for a projector booth, hence the need for a separate contained system. Dirt and dust is a commercial projectors worse enemy. The projection booth must be well filtered, not hospital filtered, but the more the better. A powered exhaust vent of not less than 500cfm must be connected to the projectors exhaust stack, preferably with insulated ducting. The exhaust vent must be wired to always be on when the projector is powered up either in use or in standby mode. The projection booth should be above the seating level to prevent someone being accidentally blinded by the light output. The projector both should be equipped with a locking door to prevent unauthorized access. Commercial projectors run on 240 volt AC or 480 volt AC on three phase 60 hertz(North America). Commercial projectors are not toys and should never be treated like toys. Kids, people with a problem keeping there hand hands off stuff, should not be allowed access to the projector. Someone who is trained, and experienced with the projector should be the only one operating it.

Screen. This is always a source of endless debate. Flat, Curved, Fixed frame hung, Suspended. Silver, black, white. All the before mentioned applies to you in one way. The size of the screen you plan to project on. Any application 30 feet or less. Flat, Fixed. Silver. 31 feet to 60 feet. Flat. Hung. Silver. 61 feet to 105 feet. Curved. Suspended. Silver. All your front speakers and sub woofers will be behind the screen. The silver color is from the aluminum embedded into the cotton giving it the "Sliver screen" look. The screen material is also very reflective and recommended for 3D use. White is what the old timers used as it was a thick cotton weave, and white in color. This is still used in a lot of 2D cinemas. Black is a new one. There is a company in Austin, Texas Elite screens who patented a black screen under the trademark Black Diamond. This has great reviews from the HT crowd and consumer projector manufactures. As far as i know it has not been installed in any commercial cinema applications. Flat screens will work in the majority of applications. Curved screens came about as the solution to alignment problems on the extreme corners of the screen. Some mistakenly believe that it has to do with how the light reaches the screen. Light travels at the speed of light, hitting the center and corner of the screen at the same time. The curved screen was also the answer to the viewing experience to those sitting in wall seats, and gives the illusion of being surrounded by the screen, giving an equal view from any viewing area. Screen fabric is lite. For smaller screen the only way to go is fixed frame and hung. The reason for this is that the speakers behind the screen will actually make the screen bellow like a sheet in the wind. Most large curved screens are suspended, as the weight is there to keep them from having the blowing effect. Suspended is a misleading term. The screen is on a aluminum frame that is supported from cables attached to ceiling supports on the top and secured to the floor with cables attached on the bottom. As weird as this may sound, it offers indefinite adjust ability with the projector to get the angles correct. There is also cables attached to the sides. The weight of the aluminum frame and the fabric keep the frame still. If you look closely, no big screen theater has any HVAC vents pointed towards the screen. The openings around the screen are most times covered by drapes. AMC uses this a lot. Go look for yourself. Screens mounted with tensions boards on brick walls is something that is not used much any more as the thing is to hide the center channel behind the screen as well as the sub woofers. Hard attached screens are a dinosaur in cinemas. This is simply nailing, tacking, or stapling the screen to wooden or plastic risers. Removal was a pain as you had to remove all the nails, tacks, staples to make sure you did not tear the new screen while it was being put in position. And not to be forgotten, as this process is years gone, glue. Yep. All drive inns and a lot of 80's new construction cinema screens were glued into place on a smooth concrete or wooden wall. Yes it was very labor intensive to change out a screen done like this. After awhile the surface would become less than perfect and show it, thru highs and lows in the screen, or the screen material would start to separate from the wall and sag at the corners. Oh yes while i am on this, paint. Another failed way to get a screen up cheaply, mostly drive inns. Everything drive inns did was on the super cheap.

So if you still think a commercial projector is the way to go in your HT, get acquainted with these manufactures, that is what they do.

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/pages/default.aspx

http://www.barco.com/en/?gclid=CLDer6bGsr4CFeUF7AodCRUAbQ

http://www.necdisplay.com/category/digital-cinema-projectors  (funny thing is i always call NEC, JVC for some odd reason.)

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-projectors/

Before you get excited, be aware that commercial projectors are sold thru authorized sellers and installers only. Don't be surprised if they want to have there representative view your site or plans. They reserve that right. You will not find them in Sams club, Costco, Best Buy or amazon. You can find used models on Ebay and cheap Chinese lamps that i would never put in anything. Another thing to keep in mind, is that commercial projectors are sold as components. you may see a commercial projector setting on its stand and think that is the whole package. It is not, what you are looking at is a dozen components sold separately that make it up.

In my own opinion. A commercial projector belongs in commercial operation, not a HT. It's like driving a bus for your daily transportation.


Lord only knows I tried to stay away.... It wasn't that hard since I do have a real life away from the forum, but I come back to see continued ramblings of someone extremely uneducated on the subject. I would never have him install the projection system in a commercial theater if I owned one.... First I will respond to this rambling post, then I will go back a quote some of the unforgettable lines from his previous ramblings.

His very first line shows how uneducated he is on current DCI projectors. I dont know if all series 2 DCI units handle 1080i signals, but Barco's certainly do. You can select progressive or interlaced signal when you build out your preset. If you ever installed DCI equipment, and I truly have my doubts, if you had installed anything recently you would know you are completely wrong! Then again, anyone operating a DCI projector will have a scaler so that the projector is fed 1080P60 or 1080P24. Even a Lumagen Mini could handle this job. Switching inputs on a DCI unit is just as easy as anyone running a decent HT. Most are using an AV receiver for switching or high-end theaters are using a Lumagen or another scaler, which handles all the switching. With this, nothing at all has to change on the projector. The only time you have to change the projector preset would be to switch over to different aspect ratios or switching to 3D or DCI content.

Again he doesn't know what he is speaking about in regards to HDCP. All new DCI units are HCDP ready, and most back to series1 could be updated to handle HDCP over HDMI or DVI. I have never had a single HDCP issue on my Barco once in the past 2 years... Again this is not 2005. CinemaAndy really needs to read up on some of the links he posted. He will see that all DCI units currently being made handle HDCP protected content....

Noise.. yes they are loud. Thats why you have them in a separate projection room or hush box... nothing else to say.

Heat.. yes they produce heat. Thats why the all the bigger DCI units, have an 8" exhaust duct, that once connected with a $200.00 duct fan, removed all the heat the projector produces. I guess he thinks in HT applications, the AV receiver, DirecTV box, game consoles, etc. dont produce any heat. But thankfully I am 99% sure everyone else knows this, so they know they have to deal with that. There is nothing different about a DCI unit in this regard.

Lenses. The only thing to say is DCI lenses are the best lenses on the market, well most of them anyways. Unless like CinemaAndy you thing the plastic lens on a $800 Optoma projector is the Holy Grail of HT. In that case I'm sure you won't notice the difference.

Aspect/Screen. Has CinemaAndy ever used any projector, Digital or Film or HT. I think everyone realizes the movie aspect/screen aspect, etc has to match. Most who are going to use DCI units are going to have masking screens. Really there is nothing different on a DCI unit from that of a higher-end HT projector. They have lens memories, just like higher-end HT projectors. You create the appropriate presets. Simple. Why does he want everyone to think this is rocket science? Job security?

Automation - no issues guys! Nothing else needs to be said.

DLP/LCOS/LCD - Does anyone in the 20K and up forum need a lesson on this? I thought not!

Audio - WOW there are different formats for DCI audio just like HT audio crazy. Guess what 7.1 or 5.1 or 2.0 are not uncommon to HT setups. With the advent of Auro or Dolby Atoms things will change, but I'm sure he doesn't even know what these systems are.

Booth - Are certainly nice, but even newer theater designs are coming to realize they are not required. Especially with the new S2K units.

Screen - Again not the place for this discussion. There are threads dedicated to this. Im sure everyone on here is aware of flat vs curved, white vs silver, gain levels etc.... Who do you think you are educating? Maybe we can sign you up to present at a kindergarten show and tell...

Again, anyone looking for advice on if a DCI unit is right for a Home Theater, or more specially their Home Theater, should talk to someone who has years of experience. Not someone who's last install was of a Christie CP2000 or someone who thinks the Optoma 25LV is the best HT projector on the market.... OH WAIT FOR IT... YOU KNOW I CANT RESIST.... THE OPTOMA THAT DOESNT NEED CALIBRATED! Yes it comes calibrated out of the box. Wow that felt good to say!

The only person on here that really need to study those links.. might be the one who posted them. If I have to *rolleyes* anymore in this thread, i might seriously get sea sick.

My favorite quotes from CinemaAndy:

"My other one is the so called contrast debate, if you have a digital projector worth the stand it's on, contrast will never be an issue. If you have to darken or shade the light of the projector to get the contrast right, you got the wrong projector in the wrong room or vice versa"


"More to the point i happen to know a few billionaires who laugh at the ideal of spending 100K or higher to put a "high end" theater in there home. And tell me more than not "The matinee is only $6.50 I'll do that." There not rich for being dumb with there money."

"When you get bored go to your local zoning office and ask them about what you are doing and what the requirements are. Better yet, call your property insurance provider and listen to what they say. I never say i told you so."

"The only good picture i have ever seen at a AMC theater was The Avengers at there down town Disney location in Florida in 2012. "

THE BEST QUOTES:

"I don't have a projector in my home. If i did it would be a Optoma HD25-LV. I saw one of these in a consumer show in Las Vegas i was attending last year. Remarkable little projector, 3200 lumens and 20,000:1 contrast ratio, DLP, 3D, easy maintenance, cheap lamps that are easy to replace, and this little projector lit up a 301 inch screen on there display, pretty impressive, and what a home theater should be"

"What makes you think I'm going to give you my trade secrets. "

"What is it with you and calibration? You think you need to calibrate a home theater projector? No the Optoma model i mentioned is ready to go out of the box. Set the zoom, focus, done. For people like you, i have had the misfortune of working behind, want to play with all the settings to maybe make the black, appear black."

"That is what i said. Out of 8 factory installed presets i am sure i can find one i like. You just continue on paying the Geek Squad to calibrate your stuff."

CiemaAndy. Please oh please... continue. You are giving me some great lines to quote!

ccool96


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post #101 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 01:37 PM
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One other thing that tells me he hasn't stepped foot into a cinema projection booth since 2005.


"Anamorphic or 2:35.1 or 2:40.1 content requires a anamorphic lens to project that familiar widescreen cinema look. If you are watching 16:9 content you do not need the anamorphic lens. The operation of the anamorphic lens is controlled thru either a rs23 port or automation. It is not a simple feat. It is more of precision then most average people give it."

While anamorphic lens are still very common in HT they are very rarely used in digital cinemas anymore. Almost all commercial cinemas, use lens memories and zoom. NO ANAMORPHIC LENS. The DCP dont even support anamorphic lens.

Flat presentations are 1998×1080 or 3996×2160

Scope presentations are 2048×858 or 4096×1716

One of the biggest issues true cinema installers have, is the fact that Scope movies are lower resolution than Flat presentations.

ccool96


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post #102 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 01:46 PM
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Hmmm, have about 10 CP2000s and I don't believe any have HDCP. Is it an option? We also have about four of the newer Christie series, the black ones, I don't remember the model. Do they have HDCP? I also know the NECs we have don't do HDCP.

CP2000 christie's are series 1 so they require a certain revision of the TI interface board to have hdcp support, the same goes for nec. All series 2 CP2210, CP2220, CP2230 and the 4K model Christie should have hdcp support.
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One other thing that tells me he hasn't stepped foot into a cinema projection booth since 2005.


"Anamorphic or 2:35.1 or 2:40.1 content requires a anamorphic lens to project that familiar widescreen cinema look. If you are watching 16:9 content you do not need the anamorphic lens. The operation of the anamorphic lens is controlled thru either a rs23 port or automation. It is not a simple feat. It is more of precision then most average people give it."

While anamorphic lens are still very common in HT they are very rarely used in digital cinemas anymore. Almost all commercial cinemas, use lens memories and zoom. NO ANAMORPHIC LENS. The DCP dont even support anamorphic lens.

Flat presentations are 1998×1080 or 3996×2160

Scope presentations are 2048×858 or 4096×1716

One of the biggest issues true cinema installers have, is the fact that Scope movies are lower resolution than Flat presentations.

Almost all commercial cinemas, use lens memories and zoom.

 

Seriously, you need to stay out of the dollar show and away from old Barco cine 8/9's.


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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Stuffed Closet, now where is that pair of videos of those little latino guys shoving it in way over their heads;-).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=codVul0zxuo


Watching stuff like that keeps me up at night. And one of the reason's i question Barco's sales decisions.

 

Oh well, maybe they have great fire insurance for there house.

 

Wait, isn't this ccool96's installation video?


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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"Do you think for one minute if anyone calls Christie, Barco, NEC and says they would like to buy a DCI projector, they're going to say no?" They will in a New York second.

 

There is plenty of audio options out there. Yes, all of them have some form of audio processing available form them. Dolby is a great company and makes great products. Cp650/cp750/cp850/Atmos to name a few. Christie has had there Vive Audio around in one form or the other for years.


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #106 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 03:39 PM
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CinemaAndy -

"Watching stuff like that keeps me up at night. And one of the reason's i question Barco's sales decisions.

Oh well, maybe they have great fire insurance for there house.

Wait, isn't this ccool96's installation video?"





Let see a Barco DCI projector in a $500,000.00 HT inside a $50,000,000.00 home... I wish it was. smile.gif

If you would read up on anything, you might could find out what movie producer/director owns that home!

But then again, I am more than blessed. I don't have to worry about things like how much electricity my projector will use, how big it is, or how much heat it puts out.

I get that inside your home/trailer, that a DCI projector most likely would not be appropriate, but I luckily have more than enough space and resources to afford to do what I do.

ccool96


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Let see a Barco DCI projector in a $500,000.00 HT inside a $50,000,000.00 home... I wish it was. smile.gif

If you would read up on anything, you might could find out what movie producer/director owns that home!

But then again, I am more than blessed. I don't have to worry about things like how much electricity my projector will use, how big it is, or how much heat it puts out.

I get that inside your home/trailer, that a DCI projector most likely would not be appropriate, but I luckily have more than enough space and resources to afford what I do.


Your worth a laugh. Not much more. I don't know what that has to do with anything, yes i do have a trailer. It's a Heartland Bighorn 3585RL that i pull with my 2012 RAM 3500. My house is 5200 square feet on 21 acres. I have the room to do anything i want to do.

 

The one thing i am not going to do, is have a commercial projector in my HT, when and if i get around to constructing it. I don't like to mix work and home life. When i work, i work, when I'm at home, I'm at home. Why do i want to deal with work issues at home?

 

Sorry if that irritates you. I'm sure you can move on.

 

BTW, why are so concentrated on highjacking this thread and completely dragging it off subject?


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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"Buying a commercial cinem projector for my home theater". I think ccool96 is as on topic as it gets
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Barco Make a special Modded version of the DP4K for a Distributer and installer in the UK called Genesis Technologies, built especially for High End Large Screen Home Theaters

Sim2 & Christie make a Modded version of the Christie CP4220 for Large Home Theaters called the CINEMA QUATTRO.

Runco up until recently made the Signature Cinema SC-1, guess what another Modded 3 Chip Commercial DLP Projector.

Wolf Cinema, sell Modded 3 Chip DLP Projectors.

Digital Projections Lightning Range are, guess what, Commercial 3Chip DLP Projectors.

Then you have Imax with the Residential Imax Theatres, with shock Horror, dual 4K projection systems from Barco.


The List can go on.
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Your worth a laugh. Not much more. I don't know what that has to do with anything, yes i do have a trailer.It's a Heartland Bighorn 3585RL that i pull with my 2012 RAM 3500. My house is 5200 square feet on 21 acres. I have the room to do anything i want to do.

The one thing i am not going to do, is have a commercial projector in my HT, when and if i get around to constructing it. I don't like to mix work and home life. When i work, i work, when I'm at home, I'm at home. Why do i want to deal with work issues at home?

Sorry if that irritates you. I'm sure you can move on.

BTW, why are so concentrated on highjacking this thread and completely dragging it off subject?

Just promise us this. When you do build that theater, you hire some professional help. Preferably one that knows even HT projectors have to be calibrated.

I truly feel sorry enough for you to buy you the Optoma projector. That way you can have your dream projector.

Then, you can bring it over to my house and we can compare it to my Barco. You know since your Optoma only weights a couple pounds.

Heck, I'll even let you get it calibrated, even though you don't think that is required.

I am now committed to this thread for the long haul! So please fire back at any time smile.gif

ccool96


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post #111 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 04:32 PM
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Daihatsu Cuore, very nice car.
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post #112 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMC-101 View Post

But isn't a 2012 RAM 3500 basically a Commercial Vehicle, blimey, risky ground there you shouldn't be using a commercial vehicle for home use. I really would question your choice of vehicle there. Shocking! Shouldn't you be using a Prius, well that or what ever the Optoma alternative is?


Barco Make a special Modded version of the DP4K for a Distributer and installer in the UK called Genesis Technologies, built especially for High End Large Screen Home Theaters

Sim2 & Christie make a Modded version of the Christie CP4220 for Large Home Theaters called the CINEMA QUATTRO.

Runco up until recently made the Signature Cinema SC-1, guess what another Modded 3 Chip Commercial DLP Projector.

Wolf Cinema, sell Modded 3 Chip DLP Projectors.

Digital Projections Lightning Range are, guess what, Commercial 3Chip DLP Projectors.

Then you have Imax with the Residential Imax Theatres, with shock Horror, dual 4K projection systems from Barco.


The List can go on.

Great post!

Oh wait, he has emailed Barco and local building authorities, to the fact that a commercial projector is in a private residence. I hope the theate police don't show up! Lol

Trust me they know, because if he knew anything at all, he would know how much scrutiny one goes thru to receive DCI content.

Not only does Barco, Christie, and NEC know their projectors are installed in private residences, all of the movie studio know exactly who you are and what equipment you have, long before you receive DCPs.


He has not said one credible thing except for the fact he admitted he does not have a home theater. That is the only sensible thing he has said!

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post #113 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 05:05 PM
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PMC.

To add to that list - Display Development sells modded Christie and Barco DCI projectors specifically for HT also!

Yet CinemaAndy, must think the Barco and Christie are all as clueless to this as he is!

No way they would ever sell for a residence! *rolleyes* again and again.

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post #114 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 05:13 PM
 
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Not to mention the hundreds of Members of the Bell Air Circuit who all have DCI-Compliant D-Cinema screening rooms, all of which are in Residential settings.
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post #115 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMC-101 View Post

But isn't a 2012 RAM 3500 basically a Commercial Vehicle, blimey, risky ground there you shouldn't be using a commercial vehicle for home use. I really would question your choice of vehicle there. Shocking! Shouldn't you be using a Prius, well that or what ever the Optoma alternative is?


Barco Make a special Modded version of the DP4K for a Distributer and installer in the UK called Genesis Technologies, built especially for High End Large Screen Home Theaters

Sim2 & Christie make a Modded version of the Christie CP4220 for Large Home Theaters called the CINEMA QUATTRO.

Runco up until recently made the Signature Cinema SC-1, guess what another Modded 3 Chip Commercial DLP Projector.

Wolf Cinema, sell Modded 3 Chip DLP Projectors.

Digital Projections Lightning Range are, guess what, Commercial 3Chip DLP Projectors.

Then you have Imax with the Residential Imax Theatres, with shock Horror, dual 4K projection systems from Barco.


The List can go on.


The list does go on, and on and on and on and on.

 

What you fail to mention is screen size. "Large home theater" is the key word. IMAX does not call it a Home Theater, there term is "IMAX Private Theater." The price kicks off at $2million. I have seen two of these done, one in Houston, TX and one in Tempe, AZ, The one in Houston had a diagonal screen size of 60 feet and was in a designed building behind the owners house. It was nice. Even had replica 1930's neon marquee sign. The one in Tempe had a 40 foot diagonal screen and was in the guys basement. He build his house that way strictly for a "large" basement theater set up. His house is build on a very steep sloping lot. You ride an elevator down and exit into the concession room, complete with commercial popcorn machine, hotdog rollers, nachos, etc. Everything you would find at a commercial cinema.The auditorium has seating for 50 people  You can exit back the thru front concession area and ride the elevator back up or use the exit thru the side door clearly marked with a red exit sign, you enter into a bar with fantastic views of a 100 foot by 150 foot pool.

 

My wife complains about ladders and masking panels and speakers and other stuff hanging out the windows on the Prius. And it does not tow a 30 foot enclosed trailer very well. Two Barco's in the back brings the car to stop on any up incline.

 

IMAX is the only one that has anything for private home use. If you got $2million plus, go for it baby.


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #116 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 07:25 PM
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Are You OK ?

Art
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iRule rules my theater
 

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post #117 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 07:25 PM
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CinemaAndy - "IMAX is the only one that has anything for private home use."

I can't speak for everyone, but for me your complete lack of knowledge on anything related to home theater has become quite entertaining.

I am just wondering how long you can keep going!

Oh, I get it!!! It's the "red exit sign" that everyone is missing.

If you really want to learn about home theater installation or commercial installation, we can try to educate you! All be it a giant waste of time.

ccool96


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post #118 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Are You OK ?

Art

Art,

Your post has to be the best one on this entire thread. So well put! Short and to the point!

*Double Thumbs Up*

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post #119 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 07:53 PM
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I have to admit that I'm getting a kick out of this now. Can we please keep him?
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post #120 of 177 Old 05-17-2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

CinemaAndy - "IMAX is the only one that has anything for private home use."

I can't speak for everyone, but for me your complete lack of knowledge on anything related to home theater has become quite entertaining.

I am just wondering how long you can keep going!

Oh, I get it!!! It's the "red exit sign" that everyone is missing.

If you really want to learn about home theater installation or commercial installation, we can try to educate you! All be it a giant waste of time.

In United States and Canada exit signs can have either red or green lettering, but usually red. This is due to states or cities enacting building codes which specify the sign color. For example, in Maryland and Los Angeles, green is required. New York, New Jersey, and Chicago require that exit signs have red text.

The Canadian National Building codes requires "red letters on a contrasting background or white letters on a red background, at least 114 mm high with 19 mm stroke spelling EXIT or SORTIE when the sign is internally illuminated".[8]

Green fluorescent signs can be seen better in dark conditions than other colors, as the human rod cell is more sensitive to these wavelengths.

A well-designed exit sign is easily seen, even if visibility is poor. Note the emergency lighting immediately above the sign.


And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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