Buying a commercial cinema projector for my home theater... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 177 Old 11-07-2012, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,
I'm thinking about buying a 2k commercial cinema projector with high frame rate and upgradeable to both passive 3D and 4k for my HT. The theater has full light control and the perf screen will be between 15 and 16 feet wide, hence the need for a bright projector (perhaps a dialed down 10,000 to 12,000 lumens). As for viewing habits, 2D and 3D movies and TV shows via DirecTV and Blu-ray.

I have no affiliation with the movie business whatsoever and therefore have no access to either 2k or 4k material.

So my question is this: Would I better off buying a made for HT HD (1920 x 1080) projector from Sim 2 or similar or buying a 2k commercial cinema projector from say Barco or other commercial projector manufacturers?

And do you have any insight or advice for someone interested in a 2k commercial cinema projector?
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post #2 of 177 Old 11-11-2012, 08:13 PM
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If you got the money and the space for proper ventilation and a room for a hush box you'll be blown away by a DCI projector. They are very loud. I also believe you would be happy with the top pj from Sim2. It will do the job.

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post #3 of 177 Old 11-12-2012, 07:28 AM
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I would go for a SIM2 or similar unless light output will not be acceptable to you. Most of the upgradable DCI 2k projectors are >$100k and might not be as good as the next 1 or 2 generation consumer gear in some respects. Also, a 4k upgrade path and accessories to make it work in a HT environment probably will cost more than a replacement high end HT projector like a SIM2 or similar. Reddig's comment about the noise and having a projection booth is absolutely necessary and accurate. If you have never seen a DCI projection booth I would recommend going to a good local cinema and asking for a quick tour of the projection booth to see the projector. Lamp cost and heat are another problem too. One more thing, it is possible that some integrators may be uneasy installing and controlling a DCI projector as they may only be used to consumer projectors. This could lead to a high level of complexity and risk for them and add to the cost.
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post #4 of 177 Old 11-17-2012, 09:30 PM
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There is a new gen of dcine projectors based on the .67 chip which are quite quiet and look good, with on hand manual convergence of the dmd's.
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post #5 of 177 Old 11-18-2012, 04:21 AM
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And wht are their prices?
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post #6 of 177 Old 11-18-2012, 04:18 PM
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According to an earlier post 28-33K $ street, depending on brand/model/lens. So a bit higher than the WXGA staging units based on TI's 0.67" WXGA DMDs.

See this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431337/small-barco-2k-introduced.

Peter are there still 0.98" DMD Barco's? The 1200 is no longer current: http://www.barco.com/en/products-solutions/projectors/digital-cinema-projectors/2k-digital-cinema-projector-for-screens-up-to-12m-40ft.aspx.
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post #7 of 177 Old 11-20-2012, 07:25 PM
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For the S2K (.67 DLP), the range looks like this.

NEC NC900S: $30,000 including IMS and Lens.

Christie Solaria One: $33,000 including IMS and Lens.

Barco DP2K10S: $36,000 including IMS and Lens.

For the regular 2K (.98 DLP)

NEC NC1200C/Christie CP2210/Barco DP2k12c: $36,000 with lens

The next models up that include 4K upgrade paths for each of those will be in the $47,000 with lens price range.

The actual 4K units are in the $70-$80,000 range.
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post #8 of 177 Old 04-09-2014, 08:53 PM
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Bumping this... We are selling our house and the theater goes with it frown.gif Screen is 16' wide, scope and used a Titan pj until it developed an issue and now, AND PLEASE DONT FLAME ME biggrin.gif , I put an Epson 6030ub in as a placeholder. This was before the house sell came about. ( the screen is 1.4 gain from Harkness and while the pj is not anywhere on par with anything approaching high end for that size, it looks better than it has any right to look ). I will not be putting a new pj in for the house sell.

Since I'm now in a position to rebuild, I'm starting with the theater first, of course. Instead of squeezing a system into an existing room I want to design a room, or separate building on property, around the system. I have decided that my minimum screen width will be 20'. But call me crazy, I really want 25' to 30' wide so I have no doubt a DCI commercial unit is in my future. This is a big undertaking and I've already put a feeler out to Dennis Erskine since the room design is the biggest first step but this is gonna be DIY as much as possible.

I don't need the latest and greatest and am looking up b-stock but I have a couple of questions for those in the know here... 4k is better, I know but given proper distance from screen what 2k that's 3d capable will get me from off the sidelines and into the game? Likewise, BIG IF, but if I can swing it same question on a 4k? Thanks guys.
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post #9 of 177 Old 04-10-2014, 04:26 PM
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dp20kc will do nice:)
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post #10 of 177 Old 04-10-2014, 04:45 PM
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I have to ask so that probably means I can't afford it wink.gif
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post #11 of 177 Old 04-12-2014, 12:51 PM
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The P version is a 10K or was it 20 premium over the regular edition, according Peter in one of the other threads, recently. Is that a dialed down for additional contrast DP424B, or a fulll blown 32B?

Edit: Oops, there's already a C series, no longer the B.
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post #12 of 177 Old 04-30-2014, 05:21 PM
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c is small chasis b big both current.
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post #13 of 177 Old 05-01-2014, 10:02 AM
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Thaks for the clarification, small chassis is non-modular?
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post #14 of 177 Old 05-03-2014, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

The P version is a 10K or was it 20 premium over the regular edition, according Peter in one of the other threads, recently. Is that a dialed down for additional contrast DP424B, or a fulll blown 32B?

Edit: Oops, there's already a C series, no longer the B.

The DP4K-P is built on the DP4K-23B chassis. Both can accept upto a 4kw lamp.

I have had a Barco DP4K-23B installed in my theater for the past 2 years and absolutely love it. I just got the new Barco Alchemy Board so it can now handle 4K @ 60hz and 4K 3D. It also can handle 4K alternative content upto 4K @60hz using displayport and it also has a 4K hdmi input. The new Alchemy board is amazing. It takes my two year old projector and makes it the first 4k @60hz DCI projector on the Market. Barco's dedication to their existing customer base is second to none.

Because of Barco's dedication to their customers, I just purchase a Barco DP4K-P from Alan Gouger. I am installing it this week at a second home I just bought. After having a DCI machine, I could never go back to a consumer projector. The other good thing about the 23B chassis and the Post model is that they both work on standard 240v two phase power which is typical to most all residential power in the USA. The 32B chassis can accept upto a 6kw lamp but it only works with three phase commercial power.

The 23B can be modified, just as the P model is, to reduce light output and to increase contrast. Using the same P model internal aperture and a high contrast lens, both units can be pretty comparable. The P unit has some sort of light absorption in the light engine that does help it still have a higher contrast ratio than the 23B, but not by a huge margin.

A stock version of the 23B has about a 1800:1 contrast ratio. A stock version of the P has about a 2300:1 ratio. If you had the P aperture and a high-contrast lens to the 23B you will get very close to the 2300:1 mark. With help from Alan, and lots of trial and error, by using a more aggressive aperture in the units and further reducing the aperture in the lens, we are seeing contrast numbers around the 4000:1 mark.

Anyone interested in DCI projectors should follow the new DCI forum at www.dci-forum.com. Lots of great info there. Also anyone interested in any of the 4K DCI models or even the new small chassis DCI 2k models should speak with Alan. I know AVS is going to soon be selling a custom made NEC s2k laser projector that will be modded for higher contrast, which will really make it probably one of the best 2K projectors on the market!!
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post #15 of 177 Old 05-04-2014, 09:01 PM
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I'll be joining the club, hopefully sooner rather than later and a 24' wide scope screen is the goal. Yeah, I'm nuts, I know... Luckily my son has 11 years to work on getting a scholarship since I'll be raiding the college fund for the new theater.
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post #16 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 03:20 AM
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FYI on that width screen forget single phase projectors if you want good brightness and contrast, you can run a b-32 (3 phase) on a sinle phase using converter.


also to design a cinemascope theater in the era of 4k-3d is stupid. go to maximum height and width then 4 way mask to both. also do not use short throw zoom lenses, might as well rub vaseline on the lens, use fixed lenses.
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post #17 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 11:32 AM
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Three phase is no problem since it's new construction. And I guess I'm stupid because I'm designing a scope theater biggrin.gif I was thinking constant area but 90% of what I watch is scope so I'm maximizing for that. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind at any time smile.gif
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post #18 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 03:08 PM
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Oops, I got my phases mixed up. I was thinking two phase. Not sure how possible to get three phase in my house.
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post #19 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 04:15 PM
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THERE ARE CONVERTERS TO GET 3 PHASE OUT OF 2. IM MIXED UP TOO WITH 2 AND 1.. IF YOU GO SCOPE YOU WILL BE USING LENS MEMORIES WITH 4K YOU SHOULD USE A FIXED LENS.
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post #20 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 04:37 PM
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You get a pass on phase confusion Peter. You have too much going on in that brain to remember everything. Is your preference a 16:9 screen with four way masking or a constant area screen with four way masking? Constant area is a good compromise IMO. I've done lens memory with my first scope setup (DPI Highlite).
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post #21 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 05:49 PM
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2.0 4-way masking screen to me is the only way to go!

Neither feels like a compromise. Nowadays there is such a mixture of both 16:9 and scope content. I could not stand one format feeling that much smaller than the other.

This way 16:9 is taller, scope is wider, but overall they both are just as enjoyable to watch.
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post #22 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 06:31 PM
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At the risk of sounding cheap, my only concern with constant area is how to handle the masking. The side is no problem but bottom masking is leaving me stumped. I know a company like Stewart could sell a system but I'm partial to Harkness screens so the masking system will have to be DIY. At 24' wide, I've no idea where to begin. But I agree that constant area would be the best kind of "one size fits all" screen setup.
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post #23 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post

At the risk of sounding cheap, my only concern with constant area is how to handle the masking. The side is no problem but bottom masking is leaving me stumped. I know a company like Stewart could sell a system but I'm partial to Harkness screens so the masking system will have to be DIY. At 24' wide, I've no idea where to begin. But I agree that constant area would be the best kind of "one size fits all" screen setup.

Yes at that screen size I could definitely see where that would be a challenge. You could always buy a 4way masking screen frame from stewart and then get a Harkness fabric made for it, but I'm sure that wouldn't be the best solution.

No matter what at that screen size it will be fantastic. I have been wanting to build a new theater and had planned to do so, I too wanted something in the 25-30' wide range, but I ended up buying a second home. Now neither place has room big enough to accommodate such a large room. I wish I lived up north with a huge basement, but in Florida they are hard to come by.

I hope to have the theater at the new house up and running by this weekend, and Ill post some pics and comments on the new Barco 4K-P. I am interested to see how it looks compared to my Barco DP4K-23B at the other place. Where my last room was designed to be beautiful, this one is all about function. It is going to basically be a Bat cave!

Cant wait to see how your project progresses!
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post #24 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 07:21 PM
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Peter is now 'everywhere else', we don't have two-phase, I only just now heard of this for the first time in this thread. We only have single phase, 230V between phase and neuter and three phase, 400V between phase and phase.
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post #25 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 07:25 PM
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I'm going all bat cave too. And I can tell you, my current room is a converted indoor pool. That's the closest we in Florida will get to a basement. Never had an issue with water but after all that crazy rain here in pensacola last week, I have hydrostatic pressure bringing ground water in. Crazy.
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post #26 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post

I'm going all bat cave too. And I can tell you, my current room is a converted indoor pool. That's the closest we in Florida will get to a basement. Never had an issue with water but after all that crazy rain here in pensacola last week, I have hydrostatic pressure bringing ground water in. Crazy.

Same thing happened to me in Panama City last summer. My room steps down three feet, but my house sets up about the same amount. The bottom level in my theater is no more than 3" below the ground. Over the summer water was coming up thru the concrete. The only good thing about that is the water was so clear you could probably drink it, since it was literally being filtered by the concrete.

Luckily the bottom three feet of the walls are concrete block and then wood framing above it. All i had to do was move the front row of seat up to the second level, and take out the carpet. It was completely dry because the padding had a moisture barrier. The padding had so much water in it, I had to cut it into 3' squares just to be able to lift it out. Bought new pad and re-laid the carpet and was back in action. Crazy weather we have had in Florida this past year!
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post #27 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Peter is now 'everywhere else', we don't have two-phase, I only just now heard of this for the first time in this thread. We only have single phase, 230V between phase and neuter and three phase, 400V between phase and phase.

Yes... That is what I meant to say! LOL Single phase is 120V phase to neutral and 240V phase to phase. I don't begin to know much about 3 phase, accept I think 3 phase power can have 120V/208v and 277V/480V. My comment was more directed at the fact that not many residential home have 3 phase power, to be capable of powering a 32b without some form of expensive transformer.

I can't imagine any residential theater, no matter how big, needing more than a 4kw lamp. If they do, I certainly want to go watch a movie there!

With laser projectors, right around the corner, my assumption is they would require far less power?
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post #28 of 177 Old 05-05-2014, 08:27 PM
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Actually according to the Dutch Wikipedia what you guys have is a split phase, so two phases comming in over the same cable, split to the groundcable? Not too sure I understood how it exactly works. It said the only place in europe that had/has this, is a few rural area's in the UK, that would make for 2x240V=480Volt, but there are no hook-ups for it, as no equipment handles 480V, so just the 240V. I am probably getting this wrong again trying to reproduce what I read;-).
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post #29 of 177 Old 05-06-2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

2.0 4-way masking screen to me is the only way to go!

Neither feels like a compromise. Nowadays there is such a mixture of both 16:9 and scope content. I could not stand one format feeling that much smaller than the other.

This way 16:9 is taller, scope is wider, but overall they both are just as enjoyable to watch.

Now we are talking, CIA because of 4k and 3d, but I cheat a little bit to fit the screen as close to wall to wall floor to ceiling. in the past few gigs it was a little bit longer than 21-10 ar.


I also may like how 1.85 looks cropped in 2.0-2 or 21-10. The impact of having a huge screen is fantastic
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post #30 of 177 Old 05-06-2014, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

Yes... That is what I meant to say! LOL Single phase is 120V phase to neutral and 240V phase to phase. I don't begin to know much about 3 phase, accept I think 3 phase power can have 120V/208v and 277V/480V. My comment was more directed at the fact that not many residential home have 3 phase power, to be capable of powering a 32b without some form of expensive transformer.

I can't imagine any residential theater, no matter how big, needing more than a 4kw lamp. If they do, I certainly want to go watch a movie there!

With laser projectors, right around the corner, my assumption is they would require far less power?

Lase projectors, and you will want to do 6p are at 550,000 for chrisitie solution and 325,000 for barco, the franken-stack I am working on may come in at under 300,000. It's not just practical for many folk.

If you squeeze the crap out of the barco b-32 on a 18-24 screen with a 6kw lamp you will get high contrast (by that i mean 4,000 or 4,500-1)14 ft lambert 3d, which in hfr or 3d4k is a sight to behold.

there are some great transformers in the 2,300 range, certainly worth it.
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