History Detective: Industrial design roots of Barco DP1500 are based on Tiger 2 tank - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-15-2007, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't ask me why I thought about this, perhaps the re-issue of the Battle of the Bulge in HD (yesterday) had something to do with it.

As some may know the Barco DP1500 is looking to become the king of all Post Production reference projectors. It's unique lens servo memories features coupled with an integrator rod designed to accept custom aperture plates, the TIP7 calibration, 12 bit scaler to dual dvi with HDCP. It truly is the reference projector.

The Barco factory is in Kuurne Belgium, which is in the Ardennes forrest, precisely where the Battle of the Bulge took place.

The German Tiger2 tank made it's debut in that offensive. A powerful invincible tank known for it's capacity to bog down entire platoons singlehandedly.

The other day I referred to this Barco projector as the Tiger tank of digital projectors out there. The analogy was made based in the features it has that no Home Theater projector can have. The analogy was NOT made based on the industrial design.

11 Tiger 2 tanks were abandoned near Kuurne after the big battle.

Could it be that the Belgian projector designer remembered seeing this masterpiece of engineering in his childhood and went back to that industrial design in order to take the rectangle out of a rectangular box?

History detective want's to know...

The similarities are uncanny.


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post #2 of 24 Old 05-15-2007, 11:29 PM
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dude, you have too much time on your hands

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post #3 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 09:12 AM
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Hey did you ever see that face on Mars? I think I know that person
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 10:31 AM
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The data sheet for the DP1500 says "No need for expensive anamorphics on new generation 0.98 inch DLP Cinema projectors." How does this work?
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 10:44 AM
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I like the idea of aperture plates. I would want this remote controlled so I would not have to enter the projection booth each time between formats if giving a demo made up of different material. Of course my request is coming from my HT needs as it would not be needed on the commercial side.
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

The data sheet for the DP1500 says "No need for expensive anamorphics on new generation 0.98 inch DLP Cinema projectors." How does this work?

Basically it is a very long throw high quality zoom lens with a digital counter in each motor (zoom, focus, shift(s)). This is very difficult to do with precision, and it is the first time this feature gets delivered in any digital cinema projector.

Some individuals have tried to automate this re-zooming feature with Crestron with mediocre to ok results.

These servos work along with image memory preset for masking and warping (if curved/torus).

This room would have three screen sizes. A 3x4 aspect ratio which is accomplished by masking the 16x9 screen. Then another cinemascope screen would descend in front of it.





All of this is accomplished without the artificial stretching , re-scaling and lens deploying that anamorphics entail.Unless you choose the option of using the full width of the panel 2048 pixels. But that scaling in the projector is quite transparent.
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I like the idea of aperture plates. I would want this remote controlled so I would not have to enter the projection booth each time between formats if giving a demo made up of different material. Of course my request is coming from my HT needs as it would not be needed on the commercial side.


Where do you find the need for changing the engine Iris? Between what sort of different program material?
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 02:05 PM
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As I recall, the DLP Cinema DMDs are 2048 x 1080. This is an aspect ratio of 1.90. To get to a cinemascope ratio of 2.35, an anamorphic lens with a ratio of about 1.24 would be needed. It would seem that the Barco DP1500 may simply be substituting a ZOOM ratio of the same amount. For a constant height screen the following pixel arrays could be used.

Aspect / Pixels
2.35 2048x 872
1.85 1998x1080
1.78 1920x1080
1.37 1479x1080

Note that the ratio of 1080 to 872 is the magic 1.24.
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Very Industrious of you RJ.

Actually there is to ways of stretching in digital cinema PJ's. Fill width, and fill height. Then use masking for rest.
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Where do you find the need for changing the engine Iris? Between what sort of different program material?

An aperture plate is used on cinema 35mm film projectors for various aspect ratios blocking the light. You switch aperture plates per ratio. I thought you were talking the same thing here. I could live with not using an anamorphic lens if I could blank out the grey bars.
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a mockup of an aperture plate for the new Christie digital Cinema Piece (that has the anamorphic lens turret).

The Barco will be similar. This was all pioneered by our good friend Odyssey, 3 years ago; it is now becoming De rigueur in top Post houses.

The efffect on contrast is much like tightening the spigot in a Firehose.

You can reduce the aperture by 2/3'ds max, at that point there are laws of diminishing returns beginning to take effect, and some care needs to be taken in selecting the bulb as this procedure generates heat. But since the Tiger 2 can take up to 4Kw lamp, it is ok to use a 3KW with maximum choke.

A 4" hose for an exhaust fan should be used to take all that hot air out.








The communicator software has a WYSIWYG graphical interface for resizing electronic masking. The Pj has a dowser too.



The Barco has followed Odysseys lead and now makes an Iris standard on it's latest cinema projector.
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-16-2007, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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A bit off topic but If one were to use a new Christie CP2000ZX with the 1.25x $20K anamorphic super lens here is what Isco had to say about optimum screen radius:

The idea is to match the screen curvature to the lens/room Golden Radius (which is very job specific). This is for the 1.25 Isco digital cinema lens.

For a 9 meter long TD 174" wide screen.

Dear Mr. Peter ,

It turned out, for your projection distance of 9.14 meter the
curvature of the horizontal border of the image is minimized
if the screen has a radius of 25,8 meter. It is the same radius,
no matter whether the screen is cylindrical or spherical.

Regards

Bernward Bretthauer

That is not much of a curvature IS IT?

The same Radius would be shorter if an Isco 3 was used.
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-17-2007, 03:35 PM
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To continue the pixel counting exercise... I perused the DCI specifications version 1.1 April 12, 2007. See below: (Level 1 is 4K, Level 2 is 2K). I was close, but I used 2.35 instead of 2.39.


3.2.1.8. Aspect Ratio
Some examples for the accommodation of images of various aspect ratios in the containers are shown in Table 3.
Where:
Ph = number of active horizontal pixels in image
Pv = number of active vertical pixels in image
AR = the aspect ratio of the image (ratio of width to height, expressed as a decimal)

Level / Ph / Pv / AR / PixelAspect Ratio
1 4096 1716 2.39 1:1
1 3996 2160 1.85 1:1
2 2048 858 2.39 1:1
2 1998 1080 1.85 1:1

Table 3: Example Image Aspect Ratios
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-17-2007, 05:46 PM
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As usual i find peters god awful photoshopping hilarious. But i must salute that one picture of Jessica Alba. WHat an A$$!!!!!!!

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post #15 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 04:22 AM
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Let me introduce myself : my name is Anne-Mie Van Elsen and I work as a product/industrial design engineer (for 16 years already) in Barco (Belgium) and I like to react (rather late I know) on this thread. I copied some phrases out of yours and added my comment to it.

As some may know the Barco DP1500 is looking to become the king of all Post Production reference projectors. It's unique lens servo memories features coupled with an integrator rod designed to accept custom aperture plates, the TIP7 calibration, 12 bit scaler to dual dvi with HDCP. It truly is the reference projector. (Anne-Mie) On this I can only agree.

The Barco factory is in Kuurne Belgium, which is in the Ardennes forrest, precisely where the Battle of the Bulge took place. (Anne-Mie) Maybe when you look at Belgium when you are in the US, but I can assure you that we are closer located to the sea then to the Ardennes. I agree, when you drive 2 hours you are in the Ardennes, but still....

The other day I referred to this Barco projector as the Tiger tank of digital projectors out there. The analogy was made based in the features it has that no Home Theater projector can have. The analogy was NOT made based on the industrial design.

(Anne-Mie) about the design : the first design was made with the Events/rental and staging market in mind, not Cinema and not home theatre. This explains maybe a little bit the "robustness" you notice in the design.

Could it be that the Belgian projector designer remembered seeing this masterpiece of engineering in his childhood and went back to that industrial design in order to take the rectangle out of a rectangular box?
(Anne-Mie) I have to disappoint you, I'm at the moment 41 years old. And I have never seen a tank in my childhood

Maybe nice to know : I also worked on the design of the Cineversum series (the grey ones) - single chip projector, especially designed for HT(not of Barco anymore - a Frech firm is now in charge)Regards,
Anne-Mie
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 06:04 AM
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[quote=Dizzman;10566163 But i must salute that one picture of Jessica Alba. WHat an A$$!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Man you can say that again !

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post #17 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amve View Post

Let me introduce myself : my name is Anne-Mie Van Elsen and I work as a product/industrial design engineer (for 16 years already) in Barco (Belgium) and I like to react (rather late I know) on this thread. I copied some phrases out of yours and added my comment to it.

Hoi Anne-Mie, leuk dat je de moeite neemt te reageren op Peter's aannames.

Quote:


The Barco factory is in Kuurne Belgium, which is in the Ardennes forrest, precisely where the Battle of the Bulge took place. (Anne-Mie) Maybe when you look at Belgium when you are in the US, but I can assure you that we are closer located to the sea then to the Ardennes. I agree, when you drive 2 hours you are in the Ardennes, but still....

Or up in Amsterdam, a long drive off, anyway.

Quote:


(Anne-Mie) about the design : the first design was made with the Events/rental and staging market in mind, not Cinema and not home theatre. This explains maybe a little bit the "robustness" you notice in the design.

Apparently not robust enough, Anne-Mie, as Peter and his band of fiery latin men managed to shift at least one of the projector's DMD panels.

Quote:


Could it be that the Belgian projector designer remembered seeing this masterpiece of engineering in his childhood and went back to that industrial design in order to take the rectangle out of a rectangular box?
(Anne-Mie) I have to disappoint you, I'm at the moment 41 years old. And I have never seen a tank in my childhood

As he mentioned elsewhere on this forum he was pleasantly surprised to learn the designer was female, so the he was misplaced, although rugged designs are generally associated with male designers, no idea why;-).

So, no school-outings to Ieper for Anne-Mie, it seems. There are WW I tanks up there dugg-out in one piece (more or less), at least I saw one of those on TV, recently.

Quote:


Maybe nice to know : I also worked on the design of the Cineversum series (the grey ones) - single chip projector, especially designed for HT(not of Barco anymore - a Frech firm is now in charge)Regards,
Anne-Mie

Did you also do the 508, that looks like somewhat of a precursor to the Cineversum series, rather square and boxy, but a curvy plane on top?
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=donaldk;13370508]Hoi Anne-Mie, leuk dat je de moeite neemt te reageren op Peter's aannames.
QUOTE]

Waarom niet, het precies gelijk kijkt.


Anne-Mie: Onthaal aan het forum!
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 01:55 PM
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Is this the latest version of Systran at work? I does seem to have improved somewhat, but it still isn't up to the job.

Welcome to (at?) the forum should read; 'welkom op het forum'. An onthaal is a reception, making welcome, that's where the software messed up. At could be translated as aan, which also mean on.

As for why not, well perhaps women are more fascinated with other types of power tools (666).
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 08:56 PM
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As awesome as the Barco is, I doubt it could deflect an armor piercing round from a T34-85 at less than 100 meters.
But let's not quibble.
I'm betting the Barco's black level outclasses anything on the Eastern Front.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #21 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 09:34 PM
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All the more reason it must be destroyed.

John
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post #22 of 24 Old 05-17-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Don't ask me why I thought about this, perhaps the re-issue of the Battle of the Bulge in HD (yesterday) had something to do with it.

As some may know the Barco DP1500 is looking to become the king of all Post Production reference projectors. It's unique lens servo memories features coupled with an integrator rod designed to accept custom aperture plates, the TIP7 calibration, 12 bit scaler to dual dvi with HDCP. It truly is the reference projector.

The Barco factory is in Kuurne Belgium, which is in the Ardennes forrest, precisely where the Battle of the Bulge took place.

The German Tiger2 tank made it's debut in that offensive. A powerful invincible tank known for it's capacity to bog down entire platoons singlehandedly.

The other day I referred to this Barco projector as the Tiger tank of digital projectors out there. The analogy was made based in the features it has that no Home Theater projector can have. The analogy was NOT made based on the industrial design.

11 Tiger 2 tanks were abandoned near Kuurne after the big battle.

Could it be that the Belgian projector designer remembered seeing this masterpiece of engineering in his childhood and went back to that industrial design in order to take the rectangle out of a rectangular box?

History detective want's to know...

The similarities are uncanny.



DUDE! Finish your projects that you've been showing off, you shouldn't even be in AVS 75% of your time. If I was your customer, I'll be pissed for spending so much time in the AVS
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post #23 of 24 Old 05-17-2008, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok so wev'e got a new troll , welcome to the forum.

I reserve the right to conduct my designs and projects as I see fit, there is a lot of expensive research and experimentation, contingency plan B's that are undertaken later to abandon after plan A corrects itself, there are entire work flow lines aborted after significant effort, much contemplation and meditation but one thing is for sure: The results are big payouts that make everything worthwhile, and create entire new approaches, products and opportunities. If my patrons themselves understand the value of slow design, what are you fretting about?
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post #24 of 24 Old 05-17-2008, 04:39 PM
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Ok so wev'e got a new troll , welcome to the forum.


he is here at avs with different names for long time and sometimes he make some
strang postings.
i know him.
seams no one did anything about it.
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