Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 160 - AVS Forum
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post #4771 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx119 View Post

Here is the $64K, for those of you who already have the box, is it worth it, and would you get another?

Yes, I plan on getting seven more for my family with coupons. I will only buy them directly from DISH Network. I know I will get charged more for shipping and sales tax, but I want to make sure I get a TR-40 CRA (DTVPal) with the latest firmware. In addition, those who have purchased the boxes directly from DISH have had a little bit less of a hassle to exchange them than others who've gone with cheaper third-party dealers. If you order the converters directly from DISH, I would do it about one week before your coupons expire, maybe F107 will be out by then.

P.S. I also own a Zenith DTT901 for TiVo Series2 compatibility.
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post #4772 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viewer29 View Post

My Zenith DTT901 also has the incorrect time on all stations. It's not the TR40/PAL/or any other CECB. It is the broadcasters making the error. In some markets they have it right on all channels, in other markets, some stations have it right and others have it wrong. It all depends upon where you are located.

Only the ZAT with its manual clock could be immune from this problem.

......If, in fact, it's the broadcaster's fault......then why is my TR-40CRA
(F103) keeping normal time?....on all channels.
......by comparison, both Zenith and CM are innaccurate on most channels!
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post #4773 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwcookjr View Post

DTVPal Plus arrived today. I don't have a DTVPal to compare it against however using the same antenna and location comparing channels received with ATI's TV Wonder USB 600 the DTVPal Plus receives 18 channels here in the office while the ATI stick only receives 8 channels.

We ordered the Plus from DTVPal.com on Monday and it's here by Friday via UPS...

Firmware is F106

Very curious about picture quality on the "Plus" model.
The original DTVpal and TR-40CRA have mediocre picture quality as compared with various other boxes (especially the CM and Zenith). Especially when you compare faces (last night's debate was a very good way to test this).
It can vary from channel to channel but PQ overall is poor with these boxes.

If someone can make a direct comparison between the older models and the "Plus"......it would be most appreciated!

They claim better sensitivity but the original models do very well in this respect......
the bigger concern is the PQ......and obviously the clock/timers!!
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post #4774 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

If so, he said it was in "posts above", which you'd HAVE TO take as meaning in this thread.

The first posting of that image over here was by me in the "technical and TVGOS" thread on 8/15. Smith, P got it by installing jumper J9 on the PCB:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14455051

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwcookjr View Post

DTVPal Plus arrived today. I don't have a DTVPal to compare it against however using the same antenna and location comparing channels received with ATI's TV Wonder USB 600 the DTVPal Plus receives 18 channels here in the office while the ATI stick only receives 8 channels.

We ordered the Plus from DTVPal.com on Monday and it's here by Friday via UPS...

Firmware is F106

Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Very curious about picture quality on the "Plus" model.
The original DTVpal and TR-40CRA have mediocre picture quality as compared with various other boxes (especially the CM and Zenith). Especially when you compare faces (last night's debate was a very good way to test this).
It can vary from channel to channel but PQ overall is poor with these boxes.

If someone can make a direct comparison between the older models and the "Plus"......it would be most appreciated!

They claim better sensitivity but the original models do very well in this respect......
the bigger concern is the PQ......and obviously the clock/timers!!

Please stop the double posting. I think we all are smart enough to read the four current threads.

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #4775 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

Please stop the double posting. I think we all are smart enough to read the four current threads.


I think some people are of the "want to make sure everyone sees this...it's important" mentality.

I do agree with you, tho', that if the forum has rules about double posting, these should be followed.
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post #4776 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viewer29 View Post

For me the deal-breaker on the Zat was that one must go through the menu with several buttom pushes to get to APT.

Since the ZAT-970A can do both APT (RF Out) and digital (RCA) at the same time, why does it become an issue?
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post #4777 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwcookjr View Post

DTVPal Plus arrived today. I don't have a DTVPal to compare it against however using the same antenna and location comparing channels received with ATI's TV Wonder USB 600 the DTVPal Plus receives 18 channels here in the office while the ATI stick only receives 8 channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwcookjr View Post

Firmware is F106

Can you post any information you have on this unit in the DTVPAl Plus thread? I'd also like to know if you have any CECB's to compare to.
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post #4778 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

......If, in fact, it's the broadcaster's fault......then why is my TR-40CRA
(F103) keeping normal time?....on all channels.
......by comparison, both Zenith and CM are innaccurate on most channels!

In some markets, there may not have been a problem. The stations may have left the signal in a mode which cannot be confused, with the DST flag on and the transition date set to 00.

On 10/2/2008 at about 10PM local time I did some looking around. My Vizio TV mostly showed a mix of 1 hour slow, and reasonably close. One station doesn't doesn't even get the day right, but it is Spanish language, and I have it skipped. KCNC-DT was 1 hour slow.

My (2) TR40s were in the correct hour. One was correct and the other was 4 minutes slow. Since KCNC-DT is a digital TVGOS station, all times displayed on a unit are the same. Stepping to KCNC-DT did not cause the time to change. I set the units to standby after looking.

When I checked again on 10/3/2008 at about 1AM, the Vizio times no longer had the DST shift problem. I understand that some local stations are now sending out the signal that DST is active and have the transition date set to 00. Since this can only be interpretted that DST is on, this may have cleaned up the times on the Vizio.

On 10/3/2008 at about 1AM, both TR40s were correct. The 4 minute slow situation was gone. Apparently, the slow unit had updated from KCNC-DT. I do not know when or why.

I suspect that the TR40s had not done a sync to KCNC-DT during the time when invalid DST instructions were being broadcast. They were just running on internal clocking, which is why they never turned off DST. Of course that is just a guess. To the best of my knowledge, DISH has never made it public when, and under what circumstances, the various versions update the local clock.
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post #4779 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

I think we all are smart enough to read the four current threads.

Is there a "quick summary" post for this goofy box?

I've been out of it for a few months, but from what I gather, the TVGOS aspect still hasn't been used to make anyone's E85H (or similar) get digital listings, is that correct?

Does the DTVPal Plus come with the same remote as the other two (still no TV power button)?

Timers work fine if you leave the box on all the time, but if you let it turn off, they're still unreliable? Or this depends on what box version (TR-40, DTVPal, DTVPal Plus) and/or firmware version you have?

Yes, I'm sure I can read hundreds of posts and searches to find out, but if this and other critical info was stored in one place that's updated, that would be very handy.
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post #4780 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

The stations may have left the signal in a mode which cannot be confused, with the DST flag on and the transition date set to 00.

I don't own the boxes under discussion in this thread, but of those I do, one (Zenith DTT901) is showing various times on various stations, two (Digital Stream DTX9950 and Venturer STB7766G1) have daylight time on all stations, and the fourth (Magnavox TB100MG9) does not display the time of day.
Quote:
One station doesn't doesn't even get the day right, but it is Spanish language, and I have it skipped.

Interesting.  Here in Chicago the Spanish-language stations all have DST set right and usually have the most reliable clocks.
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post #4781 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
those who have purchased the boxes directly from DISH have had a little bit less of a hassle to exchange them than others who've gone with cheaper third-party dealers

Absolutely 100% incorrect! I have had nothing BUT the run around from DISH directly. I bought my unit back in August directly from DISH. It went out at the beginning of September. I called, and they said "no problem. we'll get a replacement out to you." Fine. I waited the 7-10 business days...nothing showed up. I called this past Monday. All I got from the CSR was "we don't know what has happened. All I can offer you is a phone call back when we find something out." I asked when that would be? She said she didn't know. So, I wait 5 days and call late this afternoon. I get the run around again as the CSR tells me they sent an email to the replacement department, and they must allow 7-10 business days for a reply. So, bottom line, I have to wait another week before I can likely not find out anything for sure...and I am probably out a converter after only three weeks.

As a post script, I wasd considering going with DISH for my satellite service. After this debacle, I will never switch even if it costs me twice as much with DirecTV per month.

Word of advice, if this is how they treat customers, STAY AWAY FROM DISH NETWORK!!

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post #4782 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx119 View Post

I was dead set against the tr-40/Pal because of the problems people were having and the lack of buttons on the box. However, as I have just received my coupons and really started looking at the choices, I realized that the echostar is one of the few that has (or at least claims) to have the features I want such as timers.

Here is the $64K, for those of you who already have the box, is it worth it, and would you get another?

as far as i am concerned the TR40 probably has one of the best 'bangs for the buck' among the cecb boxes....theres been a lot of complaining here about the timers and clock but so far mine has been ok overall...i have had some weird timer & clock issues but nothing that didnt clear itself up and/or stop me from using the timers so far.....i havnt made heavy use of the timers in the few weeks i've had it but i think it will be ok...

and most everything else about the TR40 seems to be good so far > meaning things like the remote controls effective range, the button layout, the epg, tuner sensitivity, etc etc....and my TR40 does not run hot as some have reported here....it would be nice if it had some front panel controls like power and channel up/down and a display but i can live without them....

maybe i have just been lucky so far but overall i am satisfied with the TR40...especially considering how little it really cost and that most of whats on tv is crap anyhow, so no big loss either way....

i know some people here will probably be very vocal about disagreeing with me but so be it....

*** its high time to go back to OTA antennas and CANCEL our cable/satellite pay tv services! their greed is totally & insanely out of control! ***
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post #4783 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pm3839 View Post

i know some people here will probably be very vocal about disagreeing with me but so be it....

not necessarily. From what I can gather, the timers are ~80% fixed with the TR-40. Theres still the 3.5 hour weekly timer issue, but thats plaguing F106 as well. So for a box that is free, aside from the shipping, it's a decent value.

If you're able to do an exchange on it to get better software, even if you have to pay a few bucks, you'll still be ahead of the DTVPal folks as far as price goes.
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post #4784 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post

Absolutely 100% incorrect! I have had nothing BUT the run around from DISH directly. I bought my unit back in August directly from DISH. It went out at the beginning of September. I called, and they said "no problem. we'll get a replacement out to you." Fine. I waited the 7-10 business days...nothing showed up. I called this past Monday. All I got from the CSR was "we don't know what has happened. All I can offer you is a phone call back when we find something out." I asked when that would be? She said she didn't know. So, I wait 5 days and call late this afternoon. I get the run around again as the CSR tells me they sent an email to the replacement department, and they must allow 7-10 business days for a reply. So, bottom line, I have to wait another week before I can likely not find out anything for sure...and I am probably out a converter after only three weeks.

As a post script, I wasd considering going with DISH for my satellite service. After this debacle, I will never switch even if it costs me twice as much with DirecTV per month.

Word of advice, if this is how they treat customers, STAY AWAY FROM DISH NETWORK!!

I agree 100% with you...the worse customer service I have EVER experienced. I bought my DTVPal from someone other than Dish Network. I had the F100 version with the timer problems. After it was announced that the timer problems were fixed with the F103 version, I started trying to get Dish to replace my DTVPal. It took about 2 weeks and at least 10 phone calls of trying to get them to honor their warantee and replace my defective DTVPal. I finally got ahold of someone who agreed to set up a Dish account for me and they told me I would receive a new DTVPal in approximately 5 days. About 4 weeks later and 4-5 phone calls trying to find out why I hadn't received my DTVPal yet, they told me I had to ship mine back to them first. Geez, why didn't they tell me that right away instead of stringing me along for 4 weeks? So I bitched up a storm and they agreed to pay the return shipping of my defective DTVPal. I sent it in 2 days ago. It will be interesting to see if they actually ship me a replacement DTVPal...I'm not holding my breath. It's been absolutely the worst customer service I have EVER encountered anywhere.
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post #4785 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post



Please stop the double posting. I think we all are smart enough to read the four current threads.

Cross posting is not supposed to be done, although in rare cases it would be allowed.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #4786 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post

Is there a "quick summary" post for this goofy box?

Yes, I'm sure I can read hundreds of posts and searches to find out, but if this and other critical info was stored in one place that's updated, that would be very handy.

Which is why we try and confine discussion of each unit to a single topic.

I'm going to close the other topics, and use redirects to this one.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #4787 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 08:34 PM
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Bless you, good sir!
And bless each and every one of us!

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #4788 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 08:40 PM
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The Baltimore DMA is still off by an hour as of this posting. I contacted the FCC this morning about the issue and they told me that they don't consider this a violation and that I would have to contact the stations themselves, which I did.
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post #4789 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

Since the ZAT-970A can do both APT (RF Out) and digital (RCA) at the same time, why does it become an issue?

Putting out a signal on a yellow RCA video jack isn't putting out a digital signal.

That signal is low rez and analog, the very same type of video signal that VCRs have been putting out for years thru the same type of yellow RCA jack.
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post #4790 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 09:32 PM
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In another Echostar CECB thread, now closed for consolidation into this one,
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

From my reading of the standard, 00 does not mean "no clock change this calendar month". It just guarantees that the DST on or off setting is still current.

Er, how does the tuner know whether the current setting should be "on" or "off," then?
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post #4791 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Putting out a signal on a yellow RCA video jack isn't putting out a digital signal.

That signal is low rez and analog, the very same type of video signal that VCRs have been putting out for years thru the same type of yellow RCA jack.

all the signal from these CECBs is analog I thought? Hence "Digital to Analog".
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post #4792 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nwiser View Post

all the signal from these CECBs is analog I thought?

It is.

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post #4793 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx119 View Post

Here is the $64K, for those of you who already have the box, is it worth it, and would you get another?

I think it is worth it. I love these boxes, mainly because they have the best interface of all the boxes (I'm a sucker for a good GUI). I bought 3 of them, and don't have any problems (I don't use the timers). I plan on buying 2 more if nothing better comes along towards the end of the year.
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post #4794 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

Since the ZAT-970A can do both APT (RF Out) and digital (RCA) at the same time, why does it become an issue?

Because I have no television with RCA inputs. And I have four of them so I'm not buying another.
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post #4795 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

In another Echostar CECB thread, now closed for consolidation into this one,Er, how does the tuner know whether the current setting should be "on" or "off," then?

I have been reading a little more from the standard, and I think I understand how it works.

The daylight_savings structure from the standard is:
Quote:


Table A1 Structure of Daylight Savings Time Control
Syntax No. of Bits Format
daylight_savings() {
DS_status 1 bslbf
reserved 2 ‘11’
DS_day_of_month 5 uimsbf
DS_hour 8 uimsbf
}
DS_status — This bit indicate the status of daylight savings.
DS_status = ‘0’: Not in daylight savings time.
DS_status = ‘1’: In daylight savings time.
DS_day_of_month — This 5-bit unsigned integer field indicates the local day of the month on
which the transition into or out of daylight savings time is to occur (1–31).
DS_hour — This 8-bit unsigned integer field indicates the local hour at which the transition into
or out of daylight savings time is to occur (0–18). This usually occurs at 2 a.m. in the U.S.

In general, DS_status should indicate whether DST is on or off. The transition date and time are intended to provide advance notice when the change should take place. That way a receiver would not have to constantly check the status, and handle the one potential anomaly.
It appears that some stations jumped the gun, and set the DS_day_of_month to 02 and the DS_hour to 02, on or before October 2, 2008. This would create confusion. If a receiver saw that information on October 2, 2008 at 1AM, it would conclude that DST would end on October 2, 2008, and would switch out of daylight savings time when it thought it was 2AM. As I read it, on the transition day, a receiver cannot be sure that a station will switch the DS_status to the new value at the the DS_HOUR. The actual rule is:
Quote:


After all time zones (within the span of the network) have shifted out of daylight savings time, the DS_status bit takes the value 0, indicating that daylight savings time is off. The DS_day_of_month field and the DS_hour field take the value 0. (In the U.S., this transition has to occur no later than 7 p.m. Pacific Time on the day day_out).

This does mean that if a receiver found DS_status still true and DS_day_of_month set to 02 on October 3, 2008 it would know that DST was active and would not change until November 2, 2008. If the DS_status was still true and DS_day_of_month was set to 00 it would know that DST was active, but it would not know when it would change.

I hope I finally got that right, and made it clear.
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post #4796 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

......If, in fact, it's the broadcaster's fault......then why is my TR-40CRA
(F103) keeping normal time?....on all channels.
......by comparison, both Zenith and CM are innaccurate on most channels!

I have no idea because now mine are different. Sometime before 3:00pm the TR40 corrected. The Zenith was wrong at that same time, and is still wrong many hours later.
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post #4797 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Which is why we try and confine discussion of each unit to a single topic.

I'm going to close the other topics, and use redirects to this one.

Well, there are the three versions of the box which all are slight variations of each other. The fourth topic is TVGOS relating to them all. I can see the logic behind four threads going to relieve the pressure on this multi-thousand post beast by breaking it into multi-hundred post mini-beasts. I can also see the logic of consolidating to avoid the need to cross post.

However, my main desire was to see a "quick summary" post either in each of the four threads or just for this mega thread, similar to what fatwallet has. I know it's asking a lot, but it would serve as a FAQ for the DTVPal, which seems to be the most discussed model. I know some of you have been following this thread for months and have a feel for the common questions and key info.
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post #4798 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 11:01 PM
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I have no idea because now mine are different. Sometime before 3:00pm the TR40 corrected. The Zenith was wrong at that same time, and is still wrong many hours later.

It looks like the problem was triggered by station errors. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14797936 above. It also looks like the TR40 recovers properly. After all the complaining many of us, myself included, have done about the sloppy programming of the DISH boxes, it would be ironic if the Zenith is the one that cannot recover on its own.
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post #4799 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 11:09 PM
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So for a box that is free, aside from the shipping, it's a decent value.

If you're able to do an exchange on it to get better software, even if you have to pay a few bucks, you'll still be ahead of the DTVPal folks as far as price goes.

If you have a local Dish network dealer who is an authorized CECB retailer, you might get a box that is really free. I did.
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post #4800 of 6754 Old 10-03-2008, 11:50 PM
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Which is why we try and confine discussion of each unit to a single topic.

I'm going to close the other topics, and use redirects to this one.

While I see the need for consolidation since so many of these issues effect multiple models, I find it unfortunate we will no longer have the simple thread which was tracking firmware version to ID numbers. Trying to find out that information in this monster thread will be virtually impossible.
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